[BCN] Bytecoin. Secure, private, untraceable since 2012

[smooth]

any comments on 1.0.6?

The proposal to use multiple spend keys with a single view key is a legitimate addition to the protocol. But it isn't a huge innovation, and doesn't really suggest a level of insight or expertise in line with the original crypotnote protocol development.

With this new scheme, there is no change at all on the blockchain (only in wallets, and even there only on the receiving side, not sending) and indeed one of the Monero developers who has been working on wallets said he had already noticed that could be done (but he didn't publish it afaik, and the BCN team did, so they get fair credit and he doesn't).

There are some disadvantages to it, since it requires more care in key management than the single key plus payment ID does to avoid loss of funds. So I'm not really sure the suggestion to deprecate the payment ID is such a great idea. Nevertheless the new approach is certainly useful in some use cases and worthwhile to implement.

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[child_harold]

*unless you have access to all available data which nobody in this instance does since the origins of BCN do not reside on the Internet but rather the Darknet.

Exactly. You don't have access to all available data, so you can't correctly say that it isn't a scam. The farthest you could go is that it might not be a scam (and that's a long shot).

Ahhh quite so… and you cannot correctly say that it is a scam, but you always bloody well do.
In this situation the absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence (black swan).

There are aspects of it which certainly are a scam, such as the fake trading (which I've investigated and verified for myself), or the premine, which exists by definition since the mining occurred before it was made public.

That does not prove every aspect of the prevailing theories on the backstory, as I have acknowledged before, but it does prove at least some element of a scam, and enough for responsible people to want to warn away all but the most careful expert traders who might still be able to make money on the short term market action.

As for the backstory, I and nearly every impartial intelligent observer has concluded that the theory of fabrication is more likely that the theory of a conspiracy of silence on the darknet (and beyond) that very experienced darknet users and experts have never heard of.

Still I would acknowledge and agree that more likely, even far more likely, is not 100% certainty.

Yes and I repeat: You cannot correctly say that it is a scam, but you always bloody well do.

Perhaps someday somebody will spot the black swan even though great lengths have gone to concealing it. Until such time accusations of scam are incorrect, dogmatic and disrespectful to the innovators of CN and BCN (to whom Monero owes its entire existence).

[smooth]

*unless you have access to all available data which nobody in this instance does since the origins of BCN do not reside on the Internet but rather the Darknet.

Exactly. You don't have access to all available data, so you can't correctly say that it isn't a scam. The farthest you could go is that it might not be a scam (and that's a long shot).

Ahhh quite so… and you cannot correctly say that it is a scam, but you always bloody well do.
In this situation the absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence (black swan).

There are aspects of it which certainly are a scam, such as the fake trading (which I've investigated and verified for myself), or the premine, which exists by definition since the mining occurred before it was made public.

That does not prove every aspect of the prevailing theories on the backstory, as I have acknowledged before, but it does prove at least some element of a scam, and enough for responsible people to want to warn away all but the most careful expert traders who might still be able to make money on the short term market action.

As for the backstory, I and nearly every impartial intelligent observer has concluded that the theory of fabrication is more likely that the theory of a conspiracy of silence on the darknet (and beyond) that very experienced darknet users and experts have never heard of.

Still I would acknowledge and agree that more likely, even far more likely, is not 100% certainty.

Yes and I repeat: You cannot correctly say that it is a scam, but you always bloody well do.

You are wrong about that. I say it is a premine scam, because it was 82% mined before being made public. No one even disputes this, including you. Obviously it wasn't public, it was secret.

I also say that fake trading (which as I said above I have investigated and confirmed myself) makes it a scam.

The rest of the claims of fabrication and fraud I consider (and many other intelligent, informed, and impartial observers consider) proven by a preponderance of the evidence. But yes, not 100% certain. I agree.

Perhaps someday somebody will spot the black swan even though great lengths have gone to concealing it. Until such time accusations of scam are incorrect, dogmatic and disrespectful to the innovations of CN and BCN.

Accusations are not incorrect, they are accusations.

Claims of demonstrated scamminess are just that.

Reasonable conclusions reached based on a preponderance of the evidence are also just that.

No one disrespects the innovations, if we did we wouldn't be using them!

[child_harold]

You cannot correctly say that it is a scam, but you always bloody well do.

You are wrong about that. I say it is a premine scam, because it was 82% mined before being made public. No one even disputes this, including you. Obviously it wasn't public, it was secret.

As I understand it BCN has always stated it was mined by various secretive groups on the darknet before "going public". Why would I dispute it since it is the official BCN story? What you've done at some point is translate "mined by groups on the darknet" to "premine scam". I find this curious.

So what do u think of 1.0.6?

[smooth]

You cannot correctly say that it is a scam, but you always bloody well do.

You are wrong about that. I say it is a premine scam, because it was 82% mined before being made public. No one even disputes this, including you. Obviously it wasn't public, it was secret.

As I understand it BCN has always stated it was mined by various secretive groups on the darknet before "going public". Why would I dispute it since it is the official BCN story? What you done at some point is translate "mined by groups on the darknet" to "premine scam". I find this curious.

Again, there is no way to know that it actually was mined on the darknet or by whom. We do know it was 82% mined before being public, hence premined.

If they simply said they kept 82% of the coins as a premine, that would be one thing. People could decide whether to buy or don't buy. I have no problem with that, although I would probably advise most to not buy. I might still call it a scam in the sense of being a bad investment, but I wouldn't call it fraudulent.

However, in claiming, without providing proof, that it was actually mined by independent secretive groups instead of by the developers themselves, they are making a dangerous and unproven claim in support of their product. That is no different from claiming your snake oil cures cancer, without proving it. (But as you say, this does not prove that snake oil does not cure cancer. Either way, still a dangerous and deceptive claim.)

Savvy and experienced crypto investors would know to be skeptical about these claims, to investigate carefully and be careful, but inexperienced and naive investors do not. That makes it a dangerous scam, and one people need to be warned about.

Also, I forgot another false claim that has been made, making it a clear scam. They claimed involvement of Cicada 3301. I investigated that claim and determined it to be certainly and provably false. That is again attempting to sell their product on the basis of a false affiliation and/or endorsement. That makes it fraudulent and a scam.

So what do u think of 1.0.6?

Answered above

[child_harold]

without providing proof

You would ask secretive guys doing secretive things to provide proofs that could potentially compromise their anonymity?
Once again the absence of evidence here is not evidence of absence since the Internet/Darknet is vast and the early miners presumably in small numbers. Just cause you cant find them doesnt mean they dont exist.


Finally an actual tech comment:

any comments on 1.0.6?

The proposal to use multiple spend keys with a single view key is a legitimate addition to the protocol. But it isn't a huge innovation, and doesn't really suggest a level of insight or expertise in line with the original crypotnote protocol development.

With this new scheme, there is no change at all on the blockchain (only in wallets, and even there only on the receiving side, not sending) and indeed one of the Monero developers who has been working on wallets said he had already noticed that could be done (but he didn't publish it afaik, and the BCN team did, so they get fair credit and he doesn't).

There are some disadvantages to it, since it requires more care in key management than the single key plus payment ID does to avoid loss of funds. So I'm not really sure the suggestion to deprecate the payment ID is such a great idea. Nevertheless the new approach is certainly useful in some use cases and worthwhile to implement.

Comments?

[smooth]

without providing proof

You would ask secretive guys doing secretive things to provide proofs that could potentially compromise their anonymity?

No, I would ask them to not make claims which they can't prove, for whatever reasons.

Instead, simply say that it was 82% mined at public release, and leave it at that. In the interest of full and clear disclosure, they can put that right in the topic header:

[ANN][BCN] Bytecoin, 82% mined before public release

And stop claiming (repeatedly and conspicuously at every opportunity) that it was launched in 2012 (unless they are willing to prove it, which they aren't) and just STFU about everything that happened "in secret" that they can't or won't talk about before the public release.

But that won't happen, because they want to actively and aggressively sell the (claimed) history as way to legitimize the premine and go out of their way to make it look like something other than 82% of the coins in their own pocket.

[child_harold]

No, I would ask them to not make claims which they can't prove, for whatever reasons.

pot calling the kettle black much? You should hear yourself. I'd ask you not to make claims you cant prove (repeatedly and conspicuously at every opportunity).

just STFU

It would be great if you at least considered it

* child_harold drops the mic and goes to bed.

[babybonobo]

It's unbelievable the amount of time people waste arguing about this crap, especially haters.  Either support the coin and see it for what it is, or leave.  You aren't saving anyone and there is nobody to be saved.   See the value of the coin or don't--that's it...stop wasting your time here.  Monero is BS anyways.  Arguing here isn't going to help its cause.

[jwinterm]

It's unbelievable the amount of time people waste arguing about this crap, especially haters.  Either support the coin and see it for what it is, or leave.  You aren't saving anyone and there is nobody to be saved.   See the value of the coin or don't--that's it...stop wasting your time here.  Monero is BS anyways.  Arguing here isn't going to help its cause.

They faked the date on the release of their whitepapers, using software and sources from the future. Obvious scam is obvious. No one on this forum admits to hearing from it prior to their announcement here. I support several other cryptonote coins (xdn, mro, and bbr), so I don't mind taking a few minutes to chime in here every couple of pages to challenge the shills pretending there is nothing wrong with this 82% premine scam.

[NASdaq]

It's unbelievable the amount of time people waste arguing about this crap, especially haters.  Either support the coin and see it for what it is, or leave.  You aren't saving anyone and there is nobody to be saved.   See the value of the coin or don't--that's it...stop wasting your time here.  Monero is BS anyways.  Arguing here isn't going to help its cause.

smooth saved me. I heard about a 'new' PoW crypto coin that used completely new code and provided anonymous transactions. I was late to bitcoin, so having a good chunk already mined didn't at first raise a concern. Then I heard about the BCN fabricated blockchain scam allegation and thought it sounded so ridiculous that it probably wasn't true, but I did some investigating, and now I believe it is the most likely explanation, so I sold my bytecoin stash.

I thank smooth and others for their warnings. New people turn up in crypto everyday, and the crypto community needs to self regulate as best it can, and that means the bytecoin bogus backstory will be mentioned forever more, unless some of the people behind CN/BCN provide some evidence, or at least start to address the allegation.

At the moment their silence is compounding their problem. Why don't they debate with smooth, he is after all a well respected XMR developer. Leaving it to guys like child_harold seems crazy.

[KLONE]

Perhaps someday somebody will spot the black swan even though great lengths have gone to concealing it.

82% premine made bytecoin a black turkey



give up child_harold, your bird is cooked

the black swan you seek is the community behind monero. real people!

[Blazin8888]

This coin is very interesting. I see great things I can feel it. I will continue to support  Bytecoin. I see it being adopted one day its inevitable. Also, as many before me have stated, THE WORLD DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND BITCOINTALK FORUM! Other people/investors(with more money that KLONE, NASdaq and jwinterm combined) will be looking from the outside and not commenting here


I am not your everyday crypto investor. I do other things and If you met me you would have no idea I knew a thing about Bitcoin. I dont know how to set up a mine rig etc....I have known about Bitcoin for years. I have made good money. I believe crypto is the future and many people are blind and stuck in their ways right now and dont see the failure that is the fiat money system which is in front of their eyes. They will see one day and Bitcoin will be the digital gold. Bytecoin will be the most commonly traded currency for every day items. I called it here first. I like Bytecoin. From an outsiders standpoint I dont care who/what made it. Also about the premine if whoever created this work of art wants to be compensated because if it that can all be debated. All I care about is the tech. Plain and simple. Tech always wins over story. Bitcoin proves that.

I see value here:


I can mine from my own wallet

Cool name / makes sense *megabytes , gigabytes.....BYTECOIN** ..easy for your "average joe" to get their heads around.


Nice amount of coins for the entire planet.


= Dont listen to FUD.

keep buying. more people than you possibly can imagine are watchin this crypto space right now.


and its only getting bigger.

[smooth]

This coin is very interesting. I see great things I can feel it. I will continue to support  Bytecoin. I see it being adopted one day its inevitable. Also, as many before me have stated, THE WORLD DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND BITCOINTALK FORUM! Other people/investors(with more money that KLONE, NASdaq and jwinterm combined) will be looking from the outside and not commenting here

Those people know how to do due diligence, won't be interested in this mess either, and indeed most of those major investors employ or will employ domain experts who do most certainly know about and read or have read bitcointalk. And bitcointalk isn't even the point. Regardless of where the discussion goes, there will be people who will look at the history, the red flags, the fabrications and fraudulent claims, and reach the same conclusions.

That ridiculous story about big dumb investors coming to sink enormous sums of money into a coin without researching the history and is a standard shitcoin con job meant to rip off naive crypto investors: "We'll get mass adoption because no one cares what bitcointalk thinks. Buy now!!!"

Substitute BCN for Dash in this insightful post and the exact same principles apply:

Very quick diagnosis. The dash instamine matters because: even though BTC by all accounts had a fair launch, it still enjoys the label of ponzi by some in the media and still has yet to jump any mass adoption hurdles. What do you think this same media will do if dash were to make a play as BTC's replacement? Do you think a coin that looks, smells, and most importantly reads in Evan's own quotation marks as a fraud is going to be ushered to the throne without a massive media assault?  Because billionaires and governments like having their money replaced by a top heavy band of pseudo-cypherpunks with the moral compass of a fraternity next to a rohypnol factory. So yes, dash supporter, everyone is paid to get you, but ironically by your own hand. And if you think it is bad now, you have no idea of the shit storm that would be leveled at you if you even got a whiff of BTC's market cap.

If Evan had really wanted to replace BTC, he would have foreseen every thing I just outlined and realized there were only two options: 1. a fair relaunch or 2. admit it was an instamine and said "a dev has got to get paid how a dev has got to get paid". He didn't--he wanted the benefit of an instamine without the perception of greed, but didn't think far enough ahead to see his creation as a replacement for BTC and what the consequences of his actions would be if he ever truly got on the same playing field as BTC. The fact that his coin made it to the top five with this hanging over its head should be congratulations enough--the market rewarding his misplayed strategy with being the heir to Satoshi's kingdom is a pipe-dream wrapped in rainbows flecked with fairy dust.

[Monopoly]

How many coins remain for mining ?

[smooth]

How many coins remain for mining ?

Roughly 4.9% of the total.

[ABISprotocol]

I have edited a prior post ~ link is here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=512747.msg12032828#msg12032828

Unfortunately I'll have to bow out.  I don't wish to observe the next 50 to 100 pages of argumentation (or however many more are created in this thread).

Best wishes,

ABISprotocol

[KLONE]

This coin is very interesting. I see great things I can feel it. I will continue to support  Bytecoin. I see it being adopted one day its inevitable. Also, as many before me have stated, THE WORLD DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND BITCOINTALK FORUM! Other people/investors(with more money that KLONE, NASdaq and jwinterm combined) will be looking from the outside and not commenting here


I am not your everyday crypto investor. I do other things and If you met me you would have no idea I knew a thing about Bitcoin. I dont know how to set up a mine rig etc....I have known about Bitcoin for years. I have made good money. I believe crypto is the future and many people are blind and stuck in their ways right now and dont see the failure that is the fiat money system which is in front of their eyes. They will see one day and Bitcoin will be the digital gold. Bytecoin will be the most commonly traded currency for every day items. I called it here first. I like Bytecoin. From an outsiders standpoint I dont care who/what made it. Also about the premine if whoever created this work of art wants to be compensated because if it that can all be debated. All I care about is the tech. Plain and simple. Tech always wins over story. Bitcoin proves that.

I see value here:


I can mine from my own wallet

Cool name / makes sense *megabytes , gigabytes.....BYTECOIN** ..easy for your "average joe" to get their heads around.


Nice amount of coins for the entire planet.


= Dont listen to FUD.

keep buying. more people than you possibly can imagine are watchin this crypto space right now.


and its only getting bigger.

The damage to the cause of mass crypto adoption if bytecoin were ever to succeed would be monumental. This is what concerns me, and that's what motivates me to keep following this thread. I support many coins, and I believe crypto is the future of money, but I definitely would never own or use a coin with BCN's history, no matter how good the cryptography and anon features are, and I'll tell you why. TRUST!

People need to trust that crypto money will hold its value, and as long as there's the whiff of scandal around a coin it makes it a bad store of wealth. Sure, the people that control the 82% premine can make the price anything they want now, but it's not real, because the vast majority of people who bother to look don't TRUST this coin. It's not about some people getting rich either ( I don't care that satoshi is rich on paper, he earnt it); it's about how Jo Sixpack feels about cheating, rip-offs, swindlers - he doesn't like them.

Remember these guys, Milli Vanilli? The notorious lip-synchers  from the late 80's?



Why did people drop them like a stone, the music was EXACTLY the same after people realised these guys didn't actually sing the songs, so why did their former fans hate them ... coz they didn't like being cheated, and that's why bytecoin will never fly.

People don't like cheats, and monero and other CN based coins offer the same tech. If BCN did gain mass user numbers, eventually people would find out about the scam, and just like Milli Vanilli, this coin would die, BUT, the damage done to ALL coins might damage bitcoin and all other coins for years. I think that's why people on this forum will keep kicking this issue down the road. I don't want to see my investment in crypto damaged by the repercussions of "crypto currencies are all scams", and that's the inevitable end that we'd get if bytecoin made it out of the cryptoshere.

[KLONE]

I have edited a prior post ~ link is here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=512747.msg12032828#msg12032828

Unfortunately I'll have to bow out.  I don't wish to observe the next 50 to 100 pages of argumentation (or however many more are created in this thread).

Best wishes,

ABISprotocol

Before you go why not address the issue? This coin had either:

A- 82% ninja mine
B- 82% scam mine & fabricated backstory and blockchain

If you can explain and convince people they don't matter you'll win the argument.

[child_harold]

@Monero

I refer to you as a Churh because in the absence of evidence or proof it is only the strength of your convictions and faith which holds you resolute in your beliefs (The Monero View of the World. )

I am unswayed by your Religion and remain open-minded on the subject of Bytecoin: its past, present and future.

Now could all u little Monero trolls please fucky offy?

Else I'll come into your Church and kick up such a shitstorm that by the end nobody will have any respect for your bigoted, presumptuous, condescending, conceited and unapologetically disrespectful community. The BCN devs owe you nothing, you guys dont have shit on BCN and your tech is pants in comparison. Take your nothing evidence and and insert it smoothly where the sun dont shine. Go take care of your own.

It's unbelievable the amount of time people waste arguing about this crap, especially haters.  Either support the coin and see it for what it is, or leave.  You aren't saving anyone and there is nobody to be saved.   See the value of the coin or don't--that's it...stop wasting your time here.  Monero is BS anyways.  Arguing here isn't going to help its cause.

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