[ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs

[dogie]

Hmmm... What is it?..

http://bitcoinminershop.be/product/sp50-yukon-bitcoin-miner/

That's no more efficient than their last gen gear, assuming it's even real.  Guessing it's not.

Especially seeing as the picture is just 2 SP3Xs cropped on top of each other...

[2112]

All this of course assumes an intelligent designer.

I would never make such an assumption.

This is very grim when we can't assume an intelligent designer even in the Spondoolies' thread.

I was sort of OK, when the Chinese mining chip vendors weren't able to hire or contract the actual design talent. China is undergoing a period of extra-fast growth and there are plenty of competing opportunities there.

But I'm getting scared if a Jewish company can't find an intelligent Jew to stay with them even part-time to tell the ins-and-outs of hardware engineering.

What does it mean for Bitcoin if the really intelligent Jews avoid it and the only Jews that deal with Bitcoin are the ones that skew towards being criminally optimistic?

[Guy Corem]

All this of course assumes an intelligent designer.

I would never make such an assumption.

This is very grim when we can't assume an intelligent designer even in the Spondoolies' thread.

I was sort of OK, when the Chinese mining chip vendors weren't able to hire or contract the actual design talent. China is undergoing a period of extra-fast growth and there are plenty of competing opportunities there.

But I'm getting scared if a Jewish company can't find an intelligent Jew to stay with them even part-time to tell the ins-and-outs of hardware engineering.

What does it mean for Bitcoin if the really intelligent Jews avoid it and the only Jews that deal with Bitcoin are the ones that skew towards being criminally optimistic?

Am I criminally optimistic Jew ?

[Biomech]

All this of course assumes an intelligent designer.

I would never make such an assumption.

This is very grim when we can't assume an intelligent designer even in the Spondoolies' thread.

I was sort of OK, when the Chinese mining chip vendors weren't able to hire or contract the actual design talent. China is undergoing a period of extra-fast growth and there are plenty of competing opportunities there.

But I'm getting scared if a Jewish company can't find an intelligent Jew to stay with them even part-time to tell the ins-and-outs of hardware engineering.

What does it mean for Bitcoin if the really intelligent Jews avoid it and the only Jews that deal with Bitcoin are the ones that skew towards being criminally optimistic?

Am I criminally optimistic Jew ?

I sincerely hope so The world has been vastly improved by criminally optimistic Jews like Albert Einstein and Murray Rothbard..

[TheRealSteve]

All this of course assumes an intelligent designer.

I would never make such an assumption.

This is very grim when we can't assume an intelligent designer even in the Spondoolies' thread.

No, I just wouldn't make the assumption in general.  Very few BGAs I've seen have had some thought put into ease of routing it out. Many of those are assumed to go onto 6+ layer boards with blind vias the norm, not the exception, and the internals instead designed to make life easier at the silicon level.

iirc, the RockerBox was similar in layout to the Minion chip I linked to - i.e. alternating gnd/pwr for most of the chip and i/o concentrated at one edge - just with fewer balls.  It's not entirely bad, but I can understand why e.g. sidehack would rather not go near it.  Still, that's a lot more 'intelligent' than some of the intel stuff that is a semi-random mess with two different ball pitches in die shadow / skirt .. at least for those needing to plunk it down on a board.

[2112]

Am I criminally optimistic Jew ?

How would I know? It is not for me to judge, I'm just an observer.

In the past, in the case I was sort-of-involved by being the company insider, it took around 7 years from the time certain executive made certain sales projections to that executive being sentenced for breach of the fiduciary duty. Of that 7 years the company was defunct/bankrupt for 5-6 years.

The difference between the sentenced executive and the other one who weren't charged was, as far as I could tell, only that he was the most secretive whereas the other always kept giving interviews and co-authoring published scientific papers.

The way the lawyers explained it to me is that there's wide gray area between investing and gambling. Obviously there's no such actual charge as "criminal optimism", but it is an useful shorthand to how the courts decide in similar cases.

[Xian01]

Am I criminally optimistic...

Dogie was barking about some outstanding commissions, apparently.

[Fatman3001]

Am I criminally optimistic...

Dogie was barking about some outstanding commissions, apparently.

I'm sure they can sort this out on Skype, e-mail or PM when the sweet nectar of income is flowing. I'm guessing dogie isn't at the top of their list of creditors either.

[2112]

No, I just wouldn't make the assumption in general.  Very few BGAs I've seen have had some thought put into ease of routing it out. Many of those are assumed to go onto 6+ layer boards with blind vias the norm, not the exception, and the internals instead designed to make life easier at the silicon level.

iirc, the RockerBox was similar in layout to the Minion chip I linked to - i.e. alternating gnd/pwr for most of the chip and i/o concentrated at one edge - just with fewer balls.  It's not entirely bad, but I can understand why e.g. sidehack would rather not go near it.  Still, that's a lot more 'intelligent' than some of the intel stuff that is a semi-random mess with two different ball pitches in die shadow / skirt .. at least for those needing to plunk it down on a board.

This checkerboard pattern is not "making life easier at the silicon level". It is a symptom of using completely invalid approximate model of parasitic components and then using those approximated, but not really existing, parasitics as an additional power decoupling filter.

It seems like despite the claims of "full custom" Spondoolies is still using only a very approximate all-digital low-power models. They are essentially invalid because they are used outside of their range of validity (in terms of self-induced noise and dissipated power).

I'm not sure if I understood your 2nd paragraph. It seems like you think I proposed using two different pad pitches: one denser for the chip and one coarser for the board. What I intended to convey is using the same pad pitch on both chips and board.  The power traces are bundled in the way similar to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litz_wire .

The bundling and spacing is wider to so that simple faults like shorting two neighboring pads doesn't create board-level and circuit-level fault.

I'm not up to speed with the most recent digital EDA tools, but I don't believe that their low-power all-digital tools can properly model the skin-effect and long-transmission-line-effect for those types of pad and board layouts. To get accurate models one has to drop to the all-analog or nearly-all-analog modeling.

[TheRealSteve]

This checkerboard pattern is not "making life easier at the silicon level". It is a symptom of using completely invalid approximate model of parasitic components and then using those approximated, but not really existing, parasitics as an additional power decoupling filter.

It's the exhibition of the symptom - but the cause thereof leads to that layout as it is.  Laziness/not having to deal with intricacies also makes life easier

I'm not sure if I understood your 2nd paragraph. It seems like you think I proposed using two different pad pitches: one denser for the chip and one coarser for the board. What I intended to convey is using the same pad pitch on both chips and board.

No, not at all.  I was referring to some of Intel's chips that actually have different BGA pitches on the same package as an example of some of the really oddball BGA designs some companies throw out there as a comparison point for alternating+side of I/O not being the worst, albeit not ideal either.

[dogie]

Am I criminally optimistic...

Dogie was barking about some outstanding commissions, apparently.

I'm sure they can sort this out on Skype, e-mail or PM when the sweet nectar of income is flowing. I'm guessing dogie isn't at the top of their list of creditors either.

Tried to do so for over a year, either I accepted a huge cut of what was owed or it was nothing. They then went through the 'lets discredit him so no one will believe him phase' and kicked me out the affiliate scheme even as their largest affiliate. I'll leave it like that for now and let the current activities play out, its not really fair when Guy can't easily discuss or counter what I'm saying due to now soon being part of a publicly listed company.

[Fatman3001]

Am I criminally optimistic...

Dogie was barking about some outstanding commissions, apparently.

I'm sure they can sort this out on Skype, e-mail or PM when the sweet nectar of income is flowing. I'm guessing dogie isn't at the top of their list of creditors either.

Tried to do so for over a year, either I accepted a huge cut of what was owed or it was nothing. They then went through the 'lets discredit him so no one will believe him phase' and kicked me out the affiliate scheme even as their largest affiliate. I'll leave it like that for now and let the current activities play out, its not really fair when Guy can't easily discuss or counter what I'm saying due to now soon being part of a publicly listed company.

You can't pay people when you don't have money. When you have a knife hanging over your head you prioritize. Most bitcoin mining manufacturers couldn't make it through 2014, so the fact that spondoolies is still among us is impressive in itself. The SP50 looks like a killer product, plus they've already got a large bulk customer that more or less guarantees sales. Just let things cool down on one front and heat up on another (SP50 sales).

[Searing]

So miners are called transaction verification servers now?

Sure...  I like the sound of that when doing my taxes writing off my hardware expenses.

LOL good luck with getting that past the IRS.

It's nothing to get "past" them.  It's only two sheets of paper I give my accountant for my business every year.  No details needed unless audited.  Even if I am audited, there is nothing to hide because EVERYTHING is documented and accounted for.  I give myself payroll and I also take some "draws" as well but never more than 50 percent.  My wife is an accountant.  I think you need to do your homework.  

What the hell do I have to get "past" the IRS?  The hardware (rigs) are depreciating assets.  They depreciate a certain amount each year.  If they are sold [As mine were] you simply subtract the depreciated value from what you sold them for.  Depending on the difference, you might end up on the "up" side.  If you end up making money from the sell AFTER depreciation, then money is made and corporate taxes are to be paid.  You don't even have to do it as a corporation as I have.  You can simply use your SSN.  I have an EIN for my S - Corporation.

yep were i'm at ...I made more in equip depreciation applied to taxes then I paid in revenue on btc and ltc mined...it 'coincidentally' was a draw (really no tricks got a cpa and everything)
so no issues at all i'm squeaky clean with IRS according to CPA (had to file had bank issues when btc was evil ....big boo boo by bank a error called sec...so if after all this it is a break
even with what I get for equip depreciation (or better) on what I mined I'll take that as a win ..but yeah home biz get a cpa it all works out (if you wish .....or just wait till 2018
when all this stuff gets straightened out and 'viola' you had a good year should you want to report 'ahem' your virtual coin to IRS or whomever..me I was stuck ...so this is the best outcome I can pull off.

[dmwardjr]

yep were i'm at ...I made more in equip depreciation applied to taxes then I paid in revenue on btc and ltc mined...it 'coincidentally' was a draw (really no tricks got a cpa and everything)
so no issues at all i'm squeaky clean with IRS according to CPA (had to file had bank issues when btc was evil ....big boo boo by bank a error called sec...so if after all this it is a break
even with what I get for equip depreciation (or better) on what I mined I'll take that as a win ..but yeah home biz get a cpa it all works out (if you wish .....or just wait till 2018
when all this stuff gets straightened out and 'viola' you had a good year should you want to report 'ahem' your virtual coin to IRS or whomever..me I was stuck ...so this is the best outcome I can pull off.

Good to hear you got it all worked out, Searing.  I plan on doing a bit better with the new rigs I have on the way.  I came out ahead on all of my previous rigs.  Not much... but ahead.  I'm itching to get my S7's in my mining closet.  Have 9 on the way and 14 more in December depending on difficulty.

[Searing]

yep were i'm at ...I made more in equip depreciation applied to taxes then I paid in revenue on btc and ltc mined...it 'coincidentally' was a draw (really no tricks got a cpa and everything)
so no issues at all i'm squeaky clean with IRS according to CPA (had to file had bank issues when btc was evil ....big boo boo by bank a error called sec...so if after all this it is a break
even with what I get for equip depreciation (or better) on what I mined I'll take that as a win ..but yeah home biz get a cpa it all works out (if you wish .....or just wait till 2018
when all this stuff gets straightened out and 'viola' you had a good year should you want to report 'ahem' your virtual coin to IRS or whomever..me I was stuck ...so this is the best outcome I can pull off.

Good to hear you got it all worked out, Searing.  I plan on doing a bit better with the new rigs I have on the way.  I came out ahead on all of my previous rigs.  Not much... but ahead.  I'm itching to get my S7's in my mining closet.  Have 9 on the way and 14 more in December depending on difficulty.

yeah it is what it is....not much you can do when the bank makes an error and says (evil btc in 2013 don't ya know) you paid 99k to Sweden and it is suspicious to the SEC.I really paid for 1 knc unit at 10,131.80 ...but they took them over 10k forms you sign for overseas wire xfer way to serious ..another reason for btc imho ...heh......so
I filed because the 2013 virtural currency IRS change had come out ..amended my taxes because I figured the bank would still try to jam me up...I was correct as soon
as I showed the banker they were idiots.....they tried to jam me up saying I was not a biz..slapped down the amended by CPA tax forms as a home virtual currency biz
and made him look like an ass to the guy on the phone from the SEC

so the hand I was dealt (best not to piss off IRS under any circumstances) it all seems like it will work out ..even at these imho depressed crypto prices etc

the only outcome I could get out of all this anyway ....but a long way around to get to the same place of just eating the equip costs (no equip depreciation) and just
sit on the hoard till say 2018 when they get this whole irs/commodity or whatever fixed and then just go ..if you want to declare under 'clear' rules ...'man I had a good
year (what I would recommend to others not in my situation

But Spondoolies has treated me more then fairly ...I got a refund on a sp30 (group buy Aug. 2014) from a post here more or less saying that perhaps it was NOT my
wisest move with 2 titans on the way (2500W) and a 100 amp service....Guy contacted me w/o me bugging him about it and offered me a refund and I was pleasantly
surprised.....of course they were selling like hotcakes then .so no loss to spondoolies but I always appreciated the gesture and I know I got at least 2 (perhaps 4) folk
to get units to replace my own on the above actions by Guy and Spondoolies

but alas again at 13.5c kwh the only miner I will have soon is 2 sidehack usb sticks at 8gb and 25 bucks each ..where the ROI is a smile I will have fallen far
at that point.......

anyway maybe they will make a 5 or 10k us home miner for the heck of it ..probably could ..hoping people would buy and fill up the remaining slots of such a beast..
but unless I win the lottery or something and need some toys....btc mining ended in Feb 2014 and likely my scrypt miner efforts will end around Feb 2015..
then I'll just sit on my hoard and brood about daily price madness on btc and ltc and hope like the rest of us it does not go tulips/beanie baby/etc

(good to have goals...that is gonna suck thou no miners argh!)

(again youtube video will be available to guy and spondoolies if they send me an sp50 and you can watch it melt my 100 amp service...it would get a million hits
for sure)

[Biodom]

btc mining ended in Feb 2014 and likely my scrypt miner efforts will end around Feb 2015..
then I'll just sit on my hoard and brood about daily price madness on btc and ltc and hope like the rest of us it does not go tulips/beanie baby/etc

well, the way i see it, if I just buy and hold bitcoin, I get absolutely nothing from this as far as experiences or future memories are concerned.
if bitcoin becomes a pile of digital dust (hopefully, not), then at least you can remember those days, while if you simply buy it and it goes down, then it's just another bad investment. So, I will try to use something for mining and/or learning, maybe a fancy stick, or a needlessly criticized "bitcoin computer" or something else entirely.

[bgibso01]

Has anyone asked yet why the pics show 9 psu, but the specs say 10?

[Xian01]

well, the way i see it, if I just buy and hold bitcoin, I get absolutely nothing from this as far as experiences or future memories are concerned.

Let us hope your future memories are not plagued with people pointing out the financial folly with respect to rationalizing such purchases.

if bitcoin becomes a pile of digital dust (hopefully, not), then at least you can remember those days

... where you bought low, hodl'd, and sold a fraction of a Bitcoin at some future date at way more than you could have imagined.

So, I will try to use something for mining and/or learning, maybe a fancy stick, or a needlessly criticized "bitcoin computer" or something else entirely.

As long as you go into it with the understanding that you are not going to make back whatever you spent on the device - not placing any value on any "fun" or learning you would derive from the purchase - go hog wild !

</curmudgeon-mode>

[dogie]

Has anyone asked yet why the pics show 9 psu, but the specs say 10?

There are definitely 10. One is slightly obscured in the picture but its there.

[Biodom]

well, the way i see it, if I just buy and hold bitcoin, I get absolutely nothing from this as far as experiences or future memories are concerned.

Let us hope your future memories are not plagued with people pointing out the financial folly with respect to rationalizing such purchases.

if bitcoin becomes a pile of digital dust (hopefully, not), then at least you can remember those days

... where you bought low, hodl'd, and sold a fraction of a Bitcoin at some future date at way more than you could have imagined.

So, I will try to use something for mining and/or learning, maybe a fancy stick, or a needlessly criticized "bitcoin computer" or something else entirely.

As long as you go into it with the understanding that you are not going to make back whatever you spent on the device - not placing any value on any "fun" or learning you would derive from the purchase - go hog wild !

</curmudgeon-mode>

gosh, someone is grumpy on a weekend...
I have seen many investments turn to an absolute manure, but you have to be in risky investments to have a good return, as you know.
I am quite enjoying my S7 so far, and did enjoy Sp20 tremendously, but I could never host SP30 at home-had to do hosting.
regarding "making some"-it largely depends on a timeframe and on whether you count in BTC or in $$. I always count starting in $$, not BTC, it makes everything simpler.