Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[DaRude]

Ah right, this vote was about taking away US's right to self determination, how silly of me not to see it that way. But, only now even if we follow your silly logic we have an even more inconvenient question to answer, why would the whole world vote for taking US's right to self determination away? But something is telling me that you won't answer this, it's inconvenient to have people with critical thinking that follow logic ask such difficult questions, a good tactic would be to become more arrogant and offensive, anything to draw attention away from the question. Or perhaps ask a rhetorical question back, for example like, why do you think a country would want to trade with a global hegemony and printer for global reserve currency (when they always have an option to starve). And the fact that anyone who touches global reserve currency (USD) falls under this unilateral embargo and can get sanctioned, and the shortages of food and medicine in Cuba are all just unfortunate coincidences, right? Perhaps they should hire you to reeducate the world population with your boundless depth of knowledge?

I'm just pointing out how ridiculous your rhetoric is. Making up "blockade" where there isn't one. Talking about self-determination that is one-way only etc. I'm all for free trade. You're for free trade for Cuba but obviously not for Ukraine's grain, amirite?

Not sure why exactly "the whole world voted" the way it did, but I don't disagree. Let's start with Russia fucking off Ukraine, which "the whole world voted" for too, then we can get to US lifting embargo off Cuba, and eventually world peace. I'll leave the implementation details to you, geopolitical genius that you are.

The documents show that the initial concept of U.S. economic pressure was to create “hardship” and “disenchantment” among the Cuban populace and to deny “money and supplies to Cuba, to decrease monetary and real wages, [and] to bring about hunger, desperation, and the overthrow of [the] government.” However, a CIA case study of the embargo, written twenty years after its imposition, concluded that the sanctions “have not met any of their objectives.”

One nation just gets to decide if and how another nation gets to participate in global trade. But you are technically correct, if you try to bring medicine into Cuba not cleared by US, US navy will not shoot you down now. They'll sanction you and everyone up the chain, including distributors up to and including the manufacturer of said medicine, essentially bankrupting everyone. So not a military blockade, just a financial one. Same results, different wording.

So once again good ol' American exceptionalism, so US has been doing this for 60years even during the time of peace, whole world has been against it for 31yrs now, but of course we all are activated  to suddenly care very deeply about Ukrainian freedoms , and surely a good place to remedy this after it's has been going on for 60yrs, would be to start with...Russia during its current ongoing conflict, the biggest offender right?

Taking this even further they're now trying to set a precedent that even straight up blockading food, energy and fuel (effectively disabling all hospitals) to a whole region, is apparently now is not a war crime, as long as that nation still has military which uses fuel and food (which technically military cannot exist without). Seems like Ukraine abstained from telling Israel to fuck off on that too now, but let's all close our eyes on this one too and only get activated and take a position when someone who you don't support does it right? Pretty much the definition of a double standards, but who cares about rules and laws now.

Ability to export goods for financial benefit during the conflict is the least of my concerns. But for the record I'm against cutting power and not allowing inspected fuel (through red cross or similar) to power the hospital generators (even if military might still have some fuel!), regardless if it's in Gaza or in Ukraine.

[BADecker]

^^^ The interesting thing is that Russians are not stupid. Their people are watching everything that the American military does. Then they copy and improve... if they don't happen to already have something better.

[DaRude]

You're right. If this article contains at least half the truth (and it was essentially written by Zelensky’s court journalist, who is inclined to smooth out corners and embellish reality) - Ukraine is absolutely fucked, and Russia’s capture of Kiev is only a matter of time.

LOL, here we go again with wet dream about taking Kyiv
With such kind of articles it seems that someone is trying to destabilize situation inside Ukraine that heads of country of army would start to look for enemies among each other. And again we see attempts to push idea of peace talks with Russia. There is also talks that Ukraine should hold president elections next year in war conditions and seems that Arestovich already started his elections campaign.
Fact that less US people support sending weapons to Ukraine is normal thing IMO. War is going one for more than 1.5 years and people  got war fatigue, what is probably normal reaction, especially when you're thousands km from frontline and when war in Israel is getting more attention is Western edia now.

I think that the articles themselves are more related to selling newspapers than providing a honest depiction of the Ukrainian government working and state of things. Ukraine is simply requesting a honest support from the US. Not "just enough to hold" which seems to be what the US is doing right now. I am quite convinced that if the US wanted they would push much harder, but they are quite happy seeing the Ruzzian army burn through their stockpiles, which would not happen if the war was clearly in favour of one of the parts.

I am not sure US is measuring clearly the problems that Ukraine is facing.

It's quiet astonishing watching you finally come to this realization that US is just using Ukraine to maximize Russia's losses. Yet interesting that you're still holding out hope on that last part, and clinging  to an idea that Nuland just incorrectly measured the problem, and US just continues to mis-measure for over 600+ days now. Denial is a natural response and based on a desire for self-preservation, as accepting the alternative is still just too diabolic for a mind to cope with.

The New York Times-Zelensky Rebuke of Top General Signals Rift in Ukrainian Leadership

The presidential office said Gen. Valery Zaluzhny’s declaration that the war is at a stalemate was helpful to the Russians.

The office of President Volodymyr Zelensky on Saturday chastised Ukraine’s top military commander for publicly declaring the war at a stalemate, suggesting the comments would help the Russian invasion. It was a striking public rebuke that signaled an emerging rift between the military and civilian leadership at an already challenging time for Ukraine.
...
The public censure of General Zaluzhny came a day after the president’s office replaced one of his deputies, the head of special operations forces, who after his firing said he had been blindsided by the dismissal. It was unclear whether General Zaluzhny, the overall commander of Ukraine’s forces, knew in advance of the planned dismissal.
...
Its operations along the roughly 600-mile-long trench line have failed to produce any advances, while resulting in high casualties on both sides, and Ukraine is facing intensified Russian attacks in the East.
...
Ukraine’s leadership is also worried that the attention of Western allies has shifted to the conflict between Israel and Hamas, and away from its war with Russia. “The war in the Middle East, this conflict takes away the focus,” Mr. Zelensky said on Saturday.
...
officials and politicians in Ukraine and allied capitals have been passing around blame for the stalled Ukrainian counteroffensive that began in June and has advanced only a dozen or so miles through densely mined fields. American officials have hinted that Ukraine was to blame for dispersing its forces too widely; Mr. Zelensky said his army did not receive sufficient weaponry to advance.
...
The decision [dismissal] puzzled some because General Khorenko had scored a string of successes in striking behind enemy lines, including hitting ships and infrastructure of Russia’s Black Sea fleet in Crimea and targets inside Russia. The long-range strikes and sabotage operations of the special forces had cheered Ukrainians.

But field commanders and military analysts had noted grumbling in the ranks over what were perceived as politically guided decisions on strategy, including the launch of an amphibious assault across the Dnipro River in southern Ukraine that has yet to secure a bridgehead on the Russian-held eastern bank. Another point of tension was the firing of battalion commanders who had led units in the counteroffensive in southern Ukraine over the summer.
...
Commentators including a member of Ukraine’s Parliament said General Khorenko’s firing appeared to be the most significant and potentially disruptive political meddling in the military’s prosecution of the war so far.

“The firing looks like political interference into the armed forces and into its combat actions,” the member, Solomiya Bobrovska, who serves on the Parliament’s defense and intelligence committee, said in an interview. Ms. Bobrovska belongs to an opposition political party, Holos.

“This is a big mistake, and there will be consequences,” she said in the interview. She suggested that in fact it was the presidential office’s firing of a successful general that would aid the Russians.

So top Zelenskyy aids, claim “He deludes himself” and verging on the messianic. Top general of the country says Ukraine is in a stalemate, but Zelenskyy who 4 years ago was just a comic, claims that top military general is wrong, and it's not a military stalemate and dismissed generals deputy.  

And now:

BBC-Ukraine war: Grenade birthday gift kills army chief Zaluzhny's aide
...
The blast has been described as a "tragic accident" and the minister appealed to the public to await the outcome of an official investigation. Police said the explosion in the family flat at Chaiky in the western outskirts of Kyiv had been "as a result of careless handling of ammunition".

But it soon emerged that another five grenades had been found in the flat. Mr Klymenko said that they had been a gift from a colleague in the army.

Two similar grenades were later found in a search of the colleague, described as a colonel in the army.
...
A source told Ukrainska Pravda that the bottle had been in a gift bag with grenade-shaped glasses and the explosion happened when he opened the bag. Other reports said that his colleague had handed over the bottle saying: "It's hard to surprise you: That's why I'm giving you combat grenades and a bottle of good whisky."

Gen Zaluzhny spoke of the unspeakable pain and heavy loss to the Ukrainian military and to him personally, describing Maj Chastyakov as a "reliable shoulder" since the start of Russia's full-scale invasion in February 2022.
...
However, the official cause of the explosion has been questioned by Ukrainian commentators, some of whom have speculated whether it was an attack targeting Gen Zaluzhny himself, on the assumption that he might have attended his aide's birthday celebrations.

What a coincidence, general's one deputy is dismissed and another receives 3 grenades as a birthday gift within few days.  

In other news:
WSJ-Ukraine President Zelensky Says Time Not Right for Elections-Zelensky called on Ukraine to maintain political unity in wartime
Business Insider-Russia increased its stock of long-range missiles faster than expected, report says. It could spell a hard winter for Ukraine.
NBC-Republicans threaten to reject Ukraine aid unless Democrats agree to tighten U.S. immigration laws Ukraine literally became just a bargaining chip for internal politics
Reuters-Biden trails Trump in 2024 US election's key states, polls show


Edit:

^^^ The interesting thing is that Russians are not stupid. Their people are watching everything that the American military does. Then they copy and improve... if they don't happen to already have something better.

And not just Russia, China has been doing exactly that as well. That's the problem of letting the precedents slide and only addressing them when someone else does it, oh they did it too? then lets start with them, logic. Calling wars "operations", having PMCs, and now China can fully blockade Taiwan (until Taiwanese military gave up all of their food, water and fuel) and apparently that wont be a war crime now.

[BADecker]

~

^^^ The interesting thing is that Russians are not stupid. Their people are watching everything that the American military does. Then they copy and improve... if they don't happen to already have something better.

And not just Russia, China has been doing exactly that as well. That's the problem of letting the precedents slide and only addressing them when someone else does it, oh they did it too? then lets start with them, logic. Calling wars "operations", having PMCs, and now China can fully blockade Taiwan (until Taiwanese military gave up all of their food, water and fuel) and apparently that wont be a war crime now.

Right!

And the really bad part is BRICS... with Argentina already added, and like forty other nations applying.

BRICS might be taking a while to settle in together. But the settle-in time is giving them more opportunity to work out all kinds of little details. They will be stronger than ever when they get done.

Will the US ever realize that BRICS won't be about money once it is fully formed? When will they see that BRICS is ultimately about taking over the world?

[paxmao]

Keep up the propaganda, maybe the fact that Ukraine has attacked the airbase at Taganrog will go unnoticed. Ruzzia says the missiles or whatever was intercepted as usual, the target probably the airbase where the helicopters have now been sent.

What's new on this... well, Taganrog is in Ruzzia.

It seems that near the dnipro more Ukrainian forces are achieving a degree of advance, nothing serious - not yet anyway. be.open, this is not for you to react, it is for the general information of anyone who reads around here.

...

And not just Russia, China has been doing exactly that as well. That's the problem of letting the precedents slide and only addressing them when someone else does it, oh they did it too? then lets start with them, logic. Calling wars "operations", having PMCs, and now China can fully blockade Taiwan (until Taiwanese military gave up all of their food, water and fuel) and apparently that wont be a war crime now.

Nothing new.

[suchmoon]

One nation just gets to decide if and how another nation gets to participate in global trade. But you are technically correct, if you try to bring medicine into Cuba not cleared by US, US navy will not shoot you down now. They'll sanction you and everyone up the chain, including distributors up to and including the manufacturer of said medicine, essentially bankrupting everyone. So not a military blockade, just a financial one. Same results, different wording.

So once again good ol' American exceptionalism, so US has been doing this for 60years even during the time of peace, whole world has been against it for 31yrs now, but of course we all are activated  to suddenly care very deeply about Ukrainian freedoms , and surely a good place to remedy this after it's has been going on for 60yrs, would be to start with...Russia during its current ongoing conflict, the biggest offender right?

Taking this even further they're now trying to set a precedent that even straight up blockading food, energy and fuel (effectively disabling all hospitals) to a whole region, is apparently now is not a war crime, as long as that nation still has military which uses fuel and food (which technically military cannot exist without). Seems like Ukraine abstained from telling Israel to fuck off on that too now, but let's all close our eyes on this one too and only get activated and take a position when someone who you don't support does it right? Pretty much the definition of a double standards, but who cares about rules and laws now.

Ability to export goods for financial benefit during the conflict is the least of my concerns. But for the record I'm against cutting power and not allowing inspected fuel (through red cross or similar) to power the hospital generators (even if military might still have some fuel!), regardless if it's in Gaza or in Ukraine.

Are we playing the contrived questions game or the florid walls of text game?

Not sure why you're still yapping about Cuba, even after you quoted something about the embargo not achieving its objectives. Then Gaza. Can't stay on topic? Might it have something to do with the fact that Putin is the aggressor in this context? So you desperately need to find something else to justify the genocidal gnome? What happened to the whole "human shield" thing, suffering a bit of amnesia here, aren't you?

[DaRude]

One nation just gets to decide if and how another nation gets to participate in global trade. But you are technically correct, if you try to bring medicine into Cuba not cleared by US, US navy will not shoot you down now. They'll sanction you and everyone up the chain, including distributors up to and including the manufacturer of said medicine, essentially bankrupting everyone. So not a military blockade, just a financial one. Same results, different wording.

So once again good ol' American exceptionalism, so US has been doing this for 60years even during the time of peace, whole world has been against it for 31yrs now, but of course we all are activated  to suddenly care very deeply about Ukrainian freedoms , and surely a good place to remedy this after it's has been going on for 60yrs, would be to start with...Russia during its current ongoing conflict, the biggest offender right?

Taking this even further they're now trying to set a precedent that even straight up blockading food, energy and fuel (effectively disabling all hospitals) to a whole region, is apparently now is not a war crime, as long as that nation still has military which uses fuel and food (which technically military cannot exist without). Seems like Ukraine abstained from telling Israel to fuck off on that too now, but let's all close our eyes on this one too and only get activated and take a position when someone who you don't support does it right? Pretty much the definition of a double standards, but who cares about rules and laws now.

Ability to export goods for financial benefit during the conflict is the least of my concerns. But for the record I'm against cutting power and not allowing inspected fuel (through red cross or similar) to power the hospital generators (even if military might still have some fuel!), regardless if it's in Gaza or in Ukraine.

Are we playing the contrived questions game or the florid walls of text game?

Not sure why you're still yapping about Cuba, even after you quoted something about the embargo not achieving its objectives. Then Gaza. Can't stay on topic? Might it have something to do with the fact that Putin is the aggressor in this context? So you desperately need to find something else to justify the genocidal gnome? What happened to the whole "human shield" thing, suffering a bit of amnesia here, aren't you?

There's really no need to reply just to admit that you don't have the attention span to follow few paragraphs, or that you cannot follow logic that requires more than 2 hops. Simply just say ELI5, and i'll try to simplify things further for you.

So at the very least, US meddled in the Ukrainian 2014 coup, and secretary general of NATO is on record saying that war started in 2014 and NATO has been arming Ukraine since then, even pope said that Ukraine war was ‘perhaps somehow provoked’ but if we close our eyes, ignore everything that doesn't line up with our agenda, start looking at the conflict in vacuum starting from 2022, endlessly repeat that Putin is the aggressor perhaps with enough iterations someone will start to actually believe this, or at the very least we further convince ourselves of this.

[suchmoon]

So at the very least, US meddled in the Ukrainian 2014 coup, and secretary general of NATO is on record saying that war started in 2014 and NATO has been arming Ukraine since then, even pope said that Ukraine war was ‘perhaps somehow provoked’ but if we close our eyes, ignore everything that doesn't line up with our agenda, start looking at the conflict in vacuum starting from 2022, endlessly repeat that Putin is the aggressor perhaps with enough iterations someone will start to actually believe this, or at the very least we further convince ourselves of this.

Actually none of what you said justifies the invasion. If Ukrainians had attacked Kursk region in February 2022 and killed 1000+ Russian civilians in farms and concerts then I could at least see how one could come up with some sort of comparison between Gaza and Ukraine... except in your parallel universe both Gaza AND Russia are the good guys LOL. Looks like you're... what's the Russian saying, stretching an owl over a globe?

[Branko]

So at the very least, US meddled in the Ukrainian 2014 coup, and secretary general of NATO is on record saying that war started in 2014 and NATO has been arming Ukraine since then, even pope said that Ukraine war was ‘perhaps somehow provoked’ but if we close our eyes, ignore everything that doesn't line up with our agenda, start looking at the conflict in vacuum starting from 2022, endlessly repeat that Putin is the aggressor perhaps with enough iterations someone will start to actually believe this, or at the very least we further convince ourselves of this.

Actually none of what you said justifies the invasion. If Ukrainians had attacked Kursk region in February 2022 and killed 1000+ Russian civilians in farms and concerts then I could at least see how one could come up with some sort of comparison between Gaza and Ukraine... except in your parallel universe both Gaza AND Russia are the good guys LOL. Looks like you're... what's the Russian saying, stretching an owl over a globe?

Even Americans say if China did in Mexico what USA did in Ukraine, USA would immediately attack Mexico


https://www.newsweek.com/why-its-us-interest-support-israel-not-ukraine-opinion-1841573

"Just for a minute imagine if an elected Mexican president was replaced in an anti-American coup supported by China,
and then the new regime sought a military alliance with China. Washington would react in very much the same way Moscow did."

[paxmao]

Urozayna is about to be liberated.

So at the very least, US meddled in the Ukrainian 2014 coup, and secretary general of NATO is on record saying that war started in 2014 and NATO has been arming Ukraine since then, even pope said that Ukraine war was ‘perhaps somehow provoked’ but if we close our eyes, ignore everything that doesn't line up with our agenda, start looking at the conflict in vacuum starting from 2022, endlessly repeat that Putin is the aggressor perhaps with enough iterations someone will start to actually believe this, or at the very least we further convince ourselves of this.

Actually none of what you said justifies the invasion. If Ukrainians had attacked Kursk region in February 2022 and killed 1000+ Russian civilians in farms and concerts then I could at least see how one could come up with some sort of comparison between Gaza and Ukraine... except in your parallel universe both Gaza AND Russia are the good guys LOL. Looks like you're... what's the Russian saying, stretching an owl over a globe?

Even Americans say if China did in Mexico what USA did in Ukraine, USA would immediately attack Mexico


https://www.newsweek.com/why-its-us-interest-support-israel-not-ukraine-opinion-1841573

"Just for a minute imagine if an elected Mexican president was replaced in an anti-American coup supported by China,
and then the new regime sought a military alliance with China. Washington would react in very much the same way Moscow did."

Who in the US says that? There are millions of people in the US, you probably can find one that fully supports your bullshit.

 For example, this article simply states many of the (wrong) points of the Trumpists, not a problem of "the US", like "it is ok to let Ruzzia grab as much as they want", "Ukraine is to blame because they choose to make Ruzzia angry", "this war has no consequence for the US".... all false arguments:

Ukraine is a free and recognised country, no, it is not ok to land-grab from internationally recognised nations, the US has a stake on Ukraine, because letting Ukraine fail will bring more wars in the future and possible a return to the cold war. And Ruzzia has already interfered in the elections in the US and UK and other countries and nobody has invaded  them.

On top of that, it is interesting to see that whoever said that considers that the US can choose the government of Mexico.

However this is interesting...

The effort to untie the two wars will likely not survive in the Senate;

It is interesting that even this journalist has the clarity to at least see that.

No doubt, President Biden will get the funds he has requested for both Ukraine and Israel; there is no safer bet in Washington than that requests for increased military funding will be honored.

[suchmoon]

Even Americans say if China did in Mexico what USA did in Ukraine, USA would immediately attack Mexico

And I bet you would fully support "USA" in that scenario just like you're supporting Putin now, right?

Either that or you're again posting random garbage you find on the intertubes without spending five seconds thinking about it.

[TwitchySeal]

So at the very least, US meddled in the Ukrainian 2014 coup, and secretary general of NATO is on record saying that war started in 2014 and NATO has been arming Ukraine since then, even pope said that Ukraine war was ‘perhaps somehow provoked’ but if we close our eyes, ignore everything that doesn't line up with our agenda, start looking at the conflict in vacuum starting from 2022, endlessly repeat that Putin is the aggressor perhaps with enough iterations someone will start to actually believe this, or at the very least we further convince ourselves of this.

Actually none of what you said justifies the invasion. If Ukrainians had attacked Kursk region in February 2022 and killed 1000+ Russian civilians in farms and concerts then I could at least see how one could come up with some sort of comparison between Gaza and Ukraine... except in your parallel universe both Gaza AND Russia are the good guys LOL. Looks like you're... what's the Russian saying, stretching an owl over a globe?

Even Americans say if China did in Mexico what USA did in Ukraine, USA would immediately attack Mexico


https://www.newsweek.com/why-its-us-interest-support-israel-not-ukraine-opinion-1841573

"Just for a minute imagine if an elected Mexican president was replaced in an anti-American coup supported by China,
and then the new regime sought a military alliance with China. Washington would react in very much the same way Moscow did."

Really?

https://static.poder360.com.br/2022/02/2014-Coup-1.pdf
https://bitterwinter.org/myth-of-american-coups-in-ukraine-3-euromaidan/

[corrado25]

So at the very least, US meddled in the Ukrainian 2014 coup, and secretary general of NATO is on record saying that war started in 2014 and NATO has been arming Ukraine since then, even pope said that Ukraine war was ‘perhaps somehow provoked’ but if we close our eyes, ignore everything that doesn't line up with our agenda, start looking at the conflict in vacuum starting from 2022, endlessly repeat that Putin is the aggressor perhaps with enough iterations someone will start to actually believe this, or at the very least we further convince ourselves of this.

Actually none of what you said justifies the invasion. If Ukrainians had attacked Kursk region in February 2022 and killed 1000+ Russian civilians in farms and concerts then I could at least see how one could come up with some sort of comparison between Gaza and Ukraine... except in your parallel universe both Gaza AND Russia are the good guys LOL. Looks like you're... what's the Russian saying, stretching an owl over a globe?

Indeed, only those zombified by Russian propaganda can justify the Russian invasion of Ukraine. There was no reason to start this war. Ukraine did not threaten russia in any way. They invented a story about the nazis in Ukraine, but in reality the nazis are the Russian leadership that kills peaceful people and the russians themselves who support this war, and every time they rejoice when they hear about another victim among the civilian population of Ukraine

[paxmao]

So at the very least, US meddled in the Ukrainian 2014 coup, and secretary general of NATO is on record saying that war started in 2014 and NATO has been arming Ukraine since then, even pope said that Ukraine war was ‘perhaps somehow provoked’ but if we close our eyes, ignore everything that doesn't line up with our agenda, start looking at the conflict in vacuum starting from 2022, endlessly repeat that Putin is the aggressor perhaps with enough iterations someone will start to actually believe this, or at the very least we further convince ourselves of this.

Actually none of what you said justifies the invasion. If Ukrainians had attacked Kursk region in February 2022 and killed 1000+ Russian civilians in farms and concerts then I could at least see how one could come up with some sort of comparison between Gaza and Ukraine... except in your parallel universe both Gaza AND Russia are the good guys LOL. Looks like you're... what's the Russian saying, stretching an owl over a globe?

Even Americans say if China did in Mexico what USA did in Ukraine, USA would immediately attack Mexico


https://www.newsweek.com/why-its-us-interest-support-israel-not-ukraine-opinion-1841573

"Just for a minute imagine if an elected Mexican president was replaced in an anti-American coup supported by China,
and then the new regime sought a military alliance with China. Washington would react in very much the same way Moscow did."

Really?

https://static.poder360.com.br/2022/02/2014-Coup-1.pdf
https://bitterwinter.org/myth-of-american-coups-in-ukraine-3-euromaidan/

Branko & da here are very selective on what they focus their attention. I am not sure that is any better than what BA does, which is not focusing his attention much in anything being discussed.

In the end this is about Ruzzia deciding that it is ok to impose their geostrategic interest by force, nothing more, nothing really new. My take is that they have misjudged the will of the Ukrainians and the will of the allies. I recall that at the beginning of this conflict Putin sent different letters

What Ruzzia has proven for now is that their army can cause a large economic and infrastructure damage on adjacent countries, but also that Ruzzia goes into a recession when doing so. Ukraine has shown that they effective can apply a porcupine defence - yes you will hurt me, but you are going home with a bruised eye and not much gain.

Speaking of porcupines, have you all seen the fireworks in Moscow?

[Hispo]

So at the very least, US meddled in the Ukrainian 2014 coup, and secretary general of NATO is on record saying that war started in 2014 and NATO has been arming Ukraine since then, even pope said that Ukraine war was ‘perhaps somehow provoked’ but if we close our eyes, ignore everything that doesn't line up with our agenda, start looking at the conflict in vacuum starting from 2022, endlessly repeat that Putin is the aggressor perhaps with enough iterations someone will start to actually believe this, or at the very least we further convince ourselves of this.

Actually none of what you said justifies the invasion. If Ukrainians had attacked Kursk region in February 2022 and killed 1000+ Russian civilians in farms and concerts then I could at least see how one could come up with some sort of comparison between Gaza and Ukraine... except in your parallel universe both Gaza AND Russia are the good guys LOL. Looks like you're... what's the Russian saying, stretching an owl over a globe?

Indeed, only those zombified by Russian propaganda can justify the Russian invasion of Ukraine. There was no reason to start this war. Ukraine did not threaten russia in any way. They invented a story about the nazis in Ukraine, but in reality the nazis are the Russian leadership that kills peaceful people and the russians themselves who support this war, and every time they rejoice when they hear about another victim among the civilian population of Ukraine

The closest thing of an actual "justification" I have heard concerning this war from some proRussian people on the internet, is the argument that people from the eastern regions of Ukraine wanted to belong to the Russian federation, because alledgely they felt more identified as Russian than Ukraine. So Russia pushed some bogus separatist Referendum and probably financed separatist armed group in the east of Ukraine.
Assuming all of it has some factuality, it only would give any legitimate and sovereign country (like Ukraine) more reasons to defend themselves from an agressive neighbor like Russia.
Imagine what would happen if Mexico did something like that to the United States, for example: financing separatist combatants in California, in order to try annexing that state. It would be foolish to assume USA would do nothing about it.

[paxmao]

So at the very least, US meddled in the Ukrainian 2014 coup, and secretary general of NATO is on record saying that war started in 2014 and NATO has been arming Ukraine since then, even pope said that Ukraine war was ‘perhaps somehow provoked’ but if we close our eyes, ignore everything that doesn't line up with our agenda, start looking at the conflict in vacuum starting from 2022, endlessly repeat that Putin is the aggressor perhaps with enough iterations someone will start to actually believe this, or at the very least we further convince ourselves of this.

Actually none of what you said justifies the invasion. If Ukrainians had attacked Kursk region in February 2022 and killed 1000+ Russian civilians in farms and concerts then I could at least see how one could come up with some sort of comparison between Gaza and Ukraine... except in your parallel universe both Gaza AND Russia are the good guys LOL. Looks like you're... what's the Russian saying, stretching an owl over a globe?

Indeed, only those zombified by Russian propaganda can justify the Russian invasion of Ukraine. There was no reason to start this war. Ukraine did not threaten russia in any way. They invented a story about the nazis in Ukraine, but in reality the nazis are the Russian leadership that kills peaceful people and the russians themselves who support this war, and every time they rejoice when they hear about another victim among the civilian population of Ukraine

The closest thing of an actual "justification" I have heard concerning this war from some proRussian people on the internet, is the argument that people from the eastern regions of Ukraine wanted to belong to the Russian federation, because alledgely they felt more identified as Russian than Ukraine. So Russia pushed some bogus separatist Referendum and probably financed separatist armed group in the east of Ukraine.
Assuming all of it has some factuality, it only would give any legitimate and sovereign country (like Ukraine) more reasons to defend themselves from an agressive neighbor like Russia.
Imagine what would happen if Mexico did something like that to the United States, for example: financing separatist combatants in California, in order to try annexing that state. It would be foolish to assume USA would do nothing about it.

The claim of having an "oppresed minority" that want to "join Ruzzia" is as bogus as all the rest. People were leaving in peace and many Ukranians speak Russian, Polish and Lithuanian and nobody cares. Ruzzia just pours money to make it look like there is an issue where there is not one and then sends the troops. It is not that they were likely financing, it is that there is clear evidence of military, financial and intelligence support of Ruzzia to create a problem in the fake-publics of the donbas.

And the problem is that this hybrid / frozen conflict way of working can be repeated eg. in Poland. Ruzzia could claim they are not attacking NATO, that is oppressed Polish who have called Putin and Ruzzia just has to deny everything.

[BADecker]

~

The closest thing of an actual "justification" I have heard concerning this war from some proRussian people on the internet, is the argument that people from the eastern regions of Ukraine wanted to belong to the Russian federation, because alledgely they felt more identified as Russian than Ukraine. So Russia pushed some bogus separatist Referendum and probably financed separatist armed group in the east of Ukraine.
Assuming all of it has some factuality, it only would give any legitimate and sovereign country (like Ukraine) more reasons to defend themselves from an agressive neighbor like Russia.
Imagine what would happen if Mexico did something like that to the United States, for example: financing separatist combatants in California, in order to try annexing that state. It would be foolish to assume USA would do nothing about it.

The claim of having an "oppresed minority" that want to "join Ruzzia" is as bogus as all the rest. People were leaving in peace and many Ukranians speak Russian, Polish and Lithuanian and nobody cares. Ruzzia just pours money to make it look like there is an issue where there is not one and then sends the troops. It is not that they were likely financing, it is that there is clear evidence of military, financial and intelligence support of Ruzzia to create a problem in the fake-publics of the donbas.

And the problem is that this hybrid / frozen conflict way of working can be repeated eg. in Poland. Ruzzia could claim they are not attacking NATO, that is oppressed Polish who have called Putin and Ruzzia just has to deny everything.

The flaw in your thinking is that if Russia/Putin has enough strength to do what you say, they certainly have enough strength to win the war... easily win the war.

Then why don't they win it? They are simply not of the mindset to destroy their Ukrainian 'relatives'. After all, the reason they entered Ukraine in the first place was to save their brothers and sisters in Donetsk and the Donbas.

The war isn't against Ukraine. It's against the everlasting encroachment of the US, Nato, and the Federal Reserve banking system.

[paxmao]

~

The closest thing of an actual "justification" I have heard concerning this war from some proRussian people on the internet, is the argument that people from the eastern regions of Ukraine wanted to belong to the Russian federation, because alledgely they felt more identified as Russian than Ukraine. So Russia pushed some bogus separatist Referendum and probably financed separatist armed group in the east of Ukraine.
Assuming all of it has some factuality, it only would give any legitimate and sovereign country (like Ukraine) more reasons to defend themselves from an agressive neighbor like Russia.
Imagine what would happen if Mexico did something like that to the United States, for example: financing separatist combatants in California, in order to try annexing that state. It would be foolish to assume USA would do nothing about it.

The claim of having an "oppresed minority" that want to "join Ruzzia" is as bogus as all the rest. People were leaving in peace and many Ukranians speak Russian, Polish and Lithuanian and nobody cares. Ruzzia just pours money to make it look like there is an issue where there is not one and then sends the troops. It is not that they were likely financing, it is that there is clear evidence of military, financial and intelligence support of Ruzzia to create a problem in the fake-publics of the donbas.

And the problem is that this hybrid / frozen conflict way of working can be repeated eg. in Poland. Ruzzia could claim they are not attacking NATO, that is oppressed Polish who have called Putin and Ruzzia just has to deny everything. If you allow him to take, he will take, and then take more, and then another bit here... That's how bullies work. First they insult, if you do nothing, they hit you, if you do nothing they beat you bad. You just have to punch their noses hard once and they go look for easier targets.

The flaw in your thinking is that if Russia/Putin has enough strength to do what you say, they certainly have enough strength to win the war... easily win the war.

Then why don't they win it? They are simply not of the mindset to destroy their Ukrainian 'relatives'. After all, the reason they entered Ukraine in the first place was to save their brothers and sisters in Donetsk and the Donbas.

The war isn't against Ukraine. It's against the everlasting encroachment of the US, Nato, and the Federal Reserve banking system.

No this is a war in which Ruzzia has tried to topple a democracy and then invaded Ukraines sovereign borders - and before that they had been financing terror in the donbas. There is no liberation of any kind.

The narrative about brotherhood and liberation is false. Putin's money created a proxy war / frozen conflict where there was nothing but people living peacefully. How does a dictator free you for anything other than becoming his slave? Putin cannot finish the war, he can simply cause as much destruction and innocent deaths as possible, that is what is left for him to avoid an internal coup (another?). The narrative about "goodwill" gestures is another sack of shit.

It is just impossible to believe any of those arguments by simply looking at the basic facts, this is just for Republicans that are trying to justify another Trump term.

Sure hey, I agree, he does not have enough strength to invade Poland and not even enough strength to win over Ukraine - but that is as long as the US, EU an Ukraine actually do something to stop him. Bullies that get their nose punched do not come back for more. You let them their way, they come back again and again.

[BADecker]

~

The flaw in your thinking is that if Russia/Putin has enough strength to do what you say, they certainly have enough strength to win the war... easily win the war.

Then why don't they win it? They are simply not of the mindset to destroy their Ukrainian 'relatives'. After all, the reason they entered Ukraine in the first place was to save their brothers and sisters in Donetsk and the Donbas.

The war isn't against Ukraine. It's against the everlasting encroachment of the US, Nato, and the Federal Reserve banking system.

No this is a war in which Ruzzia has tried to topple a democracy and then invaded Ukraines sovereign borders - and before that they had been financing terror in the donbas. There is no liberation of any kind.

The narrative about brotherhood and liberation is false. Putin's money created a proxy war / frozen conflict where there was nothing but people living peacefully. How does a dictator free you for anything other than becoming his slave? Putin cannot finish the war, he can simply cause as much destruction and innocent deaths as possible, that is what is left for him to avoid an internal coup (another?). The narrative about "goodwill" gestures is another sack of shit.

It is just impossible to believe any of those arguments by simply looking at the basic facts, this is just for Republicans that are trying to justify another Trump term.

Sure hey, I agree, he does not have enough strength to invade Poland and not even enough strength to win over Ukraine - but that is as long as the US, EU an Ukraine actually do something to stop him. Bullies that get their nose punched do not come back for more. You let them their way, they come back again and again.

I truly suspect that not all of what Putin and his cronies are doing is honorable. But it is far more honorable than Zelensky and HIS cronies. After all, the whole voting scheme in the Ukraine was manipulated by the US. You can tell by the millions of Ukrainians who fled to Russia for salvation from the Zelensky group.

Democracy is simply a more complex, group Dictatorship. In this case, it is being used by the US to attempt to bring Russia down through Ukraine. All of what Russia is doing is simply self-protection.

You are entirely missing what is going on... or you are a US/Nato/Ukraine propagandist. And the big thing you are trying to hide is your contradiction regarding the war. If Russia has enough strength to do the things that you accuse them of, they certainly have enough strength to win the war by force, easily... if their goal was to simply destroy Ukraine.

[paxmao]

~

The flaw in your thinking is that if Russia/Putin has enough strength to do what you say, they certainly have enough strength to win the war... easily win the war.

Then why don't they win it? They are simply not of the mindset to destroy their Ukrainian 'relatives'. After all, the reason they entered Ukraine in the first place was to save their brothers and sisters in Donetsk and the Donbas.

The war isn't against Ukraine. It's against the everlasting encroachment of the US, Nato, and the Federal Reserve banking system.

No this is a war in which Ruzzia has tried to topple a democracy and then invaded Ukraines sovereign borders - and before that they had been financing terror in the donbas. There is no liberation of any kind.

The narrative about brotherhood and liberation is false. Putin's money created a proxy war / frozen conflict where there was nothing but people living peacefully. How does a dictator free you for anything other than becoming his slave? Putin cannot finish the war, he can simply cause as much destruction and innocent deaths as possible, that is what is left for him to avoid an internal coup (another?). The narrative about "goodwill" gestures is another sack of shit.

It is just impossible to believe any of those arguments by simply looking at the basic facts, this is just for Republicans that are trying to justify another Trump term.

Sure hey, I agree, he does not have enough strength to invade Poland and not even enough strength to win over Ukraine - but that is as long as the US, EU an Ukraine actually do something to stop him. Bullies that get their nose punched do not come back for more. You let them their way, they come back again and again.

I truly suspect that not all of what Putin and his cronies are doing is honorable. But it is far more honorable than Zelensky and HIS cronies. After all, the whole voting scheme in the Ukraine was manipulated by the US. You can tell by the millions of Ukrainians who fled to Russia for salvation from the Zelensky group.

Democracy is simply a more complex, group Dictatorship. In this case, it is being used by the US to attempt to bring Russia down through Ukraine. All of what Russia is doing is simply self-protection.

You are entirely missing what is going on... or you are a US/Nato/Ukraine propagandist. And the big thing you are trying to hide is your contradiction regarding the war. If Russia has enough strength to do the things that you accuse them of, they certainly have enough strength to win the war by force, easily... if their goal was to simply destroy Ukraine.

You suspect that Putin & Co are not honorable? Well, I can confirm. https://www.osce.org/odihr/548662

arbitrary imprisonment and enforced disappearances of civilians living in areas under occupation are occurring with alarming frequency, with widespread reports of the use of torture and ill-treatment, the OSCE Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights (ODIHR)

So, you have read or heard somewhere that Ukrainians mostly went to Ruzzia. I can rebate that:https://geopoliticalfutures.com/ukrainians-take-flight/



So... most of them to Poland, final destination.

About the dictatorship of a group, I cannot comment. The allegations of fraud in US have not ever been supported nor any proof has been made available to the justice. So... I somehow have the feeling that you are ok with dictators, like Putin, as long as they are your dictators.

I think that what you feel about the fed & the US federal government is pretty much one tenth of what Ukrainians and many Russians have to endure everyday of their lives. But you somehow are absolutely ok with THEM suffering it.