Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[Branko]

You were arguing that what I post is propaganda. I just wanted to show you what can be classed as such (despite not being necessarily a lie) and how easy is to find it so you may notice the difference. I can see you are starting to get the difference between "war porn", "cheering", "propaganda" and information that is relevant. One more example to see if you can find the seven differences:

This is a very real cost of keeping the war ongoing. In the years before, all the cost and all the infrastructure destruction was on Ukraine. Missiles flying only East to West. Now missiles (& drones) are also flying West to East. This is factual information, with a high degree of credibility and it is of strategic importance for the war:

This is the network of radars that Ruzzia uses to detect incoming ballistic threats. All short of threats (I am going to leave to you to figure out what "detection", "ballistic" and "incoming threats" mean).

Over a single week, Ukraine has damaged two of these (along with a few airframes). These are not just simple anti-air radars. They are building size and they will take a long time to repair or replace.


Why does this matter?

a) direct effect in "strategic blindness".

b) An economic effect in the war calculus: from we hurt Ukraine and it is "free" to, hey they can and will hit in stuff that hurts (that started with the Moscova BTW).

See, this is not propaganda, no tweets, no same thing...

Those radars are insignificant for current war, which is another sign that attacks are directed by UK/USA and probably preparation for nuclear assault on Russia
They serve as early warning  against intercontinental ballistic missiles
Now, imagine if attack on such objects get falsely flagged as nuclear attack and Russia responds nuking England, how would you like it?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukrainian-strike-russian-nuclear-radar-163845828.html

“Not a wise decision on the part of Ukraine,” said Hans Kristensen, a nuclear arsenal expert at the Federation of American Scientists. “Bombers and military sites in general are different because they’re used to attack Ukraine.”

Thord Are Iversen, a Norwegian military analyst, said striking a part of Russia’s nuclear-warning system was “not a particularly good idea… especially in times of tension.”

“It’s in everyone’s best interest that Russia’s ballistic missile warning system works well,” he said.

[DaRude]

You were arguing that what I post is propaganda. I just wanted to show you what can be classed as such (despite not being necessarily a lie) and how easy is to find it so you may notice the difference. I can see you are starting to get the difference between "war porn", "cheering", "propaganda" and information that is relevant. One more example to see if you can find the seven differences:

This is a very real cost of keeping the war ongoing. In the years before, all the cost and all the infrastructure destruction was on Ukraine. Missiles flying only East to West. Now missiles (& drones) are also flying West to East. This is factual information, with a high degree of credibility and it is of strategic importance for the war:

This is the network of radars that Ruzzia uses to detect incoming ballistic threats. All short of threats (I am going to leave to you to figure out what "detection", "ballistic" and "incoming threats" mean).

Over a single week, Ukraine has damaged two of these (along with a few airframes). These are not just simple anti-air radars. They are building size and they will take a long time to repair or replace.


Why does this matter?

a) direct effect in "strategic blindness".

b) An economic effect in the war calculus: from we hurt Ukraine and it is "free" to, hey they can and will hit in stuff that hurts (that started with the Moscova BTW).

See, this is not propaganda, no tweets, no same thing...

Those radars are insignificant for current war, which is another sign that attacks are directed by UK/USA and probably preparation for nuclear assault on Russia
They serve as early warning  against intercontinental ballistic missiles
Now, imagine if attack on such objects get falsely flagged as nuclear attack and Russia responds nuking England, how would you like it?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukrainian-strike-russian-nuclear-radar-163845828.html

“Not a wise decision on the part of Ukraine,” said Hans Kristensen, a nuclear arsenal expert at the Federation of American Scientists. “Bombers and military sites in general are different because they’re used to attack Ukraine.”

Thord Are Iversen, a Norwegian military analyst, said striking a part of Russia’s nuclear-warning system was “not a particularly good idea… especially in times of tension.”

“It’s in everyone’s best interest that Russia’s ballistic missile warning system works well,” he said.

Seriously paxmao, you're now happy about attacks on ballistic missile early warning system?  Are things already that bad that you're cheering for a global nuclear annihilation?

[paxmao]

[...]


Seriously paxmao, you're now happy about attacks on ballistic missile early warning system?  Are things already that bad that you're cheering for a global nuclear annihilation?

I am not happy about anything related to this war. I am point out something that does change the balance. Are you happy about Ruzzia hitting the power stations required to keep the Ukrainians warm in winter?

[...]

Those radars are insignificant for current war, which is another sign that attacks are directed by UK/USA and probably preparation for nuclear assault on Russia
They serve as early warning  against intercontinental ballistic missiles
Now, imagine if attack on such objects get falsely flagged as nuclear attack and Russia responds nuking England, how would you like it?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukrainian-strike-russian-nuclear-radar-163845828.html

“Not a wise decision on the part of Ukraine,” said Hans Kristensen, a nuclear arsenal expert at the Federation of American Scientists. “Bombers and military sites in general are different because they’re used to attack Ukraine.”

Thord Are Iversen, a Norwegian military analyst, said striking a part of Russia’s nuclear-warning system was “not a particularly good idea… especially in times of tension.”

“It’s in everyone’s best interest that Russia’s ballistic missile warning system works well,” he said.

1. Everyone seems an expert on how Ukraine should fight. I am sure you can find someone saying the oposite. But saying is saying and does not bring the radars up.
2. I am not sure what types of "experts" are these that do not know that ATCAMS are ballistic missiles, so those radars are relevant to the war clearly. Unfortunately, they are also relevant for other things.

I almost agree with the last sentence though - well, not to everyone's interest. Ukraine does not have nukes, so nothing will be coming from them.

As said, if Ruzzia cannot afford to lose this and other infrastructure they can leave Ukraine and start figuring out how to pay reparations.

Edited to note: The radars destroyed point to the south. I leave to you why did Ukraine hit those and not the northern ones.

[BADecker]

You were arguing that what I post is propaganda. I just wanted to show you what can be classed as such (despite not being necessarily a lie) and how easy is to find it so you may notice the difference. I can see you are starting to get the difference between "war porn", "cheering", "propaganda" and information that is relevant. One more example to see if you can find the seven differences:

This is a very real cost of keeping the war ongoing. In the years before, all the cost and all the infrastructure destruction was on Ukraine. Missiles flying only East to West. Now missiles (& drones) are also flying West to East. This is factual information, with a high degree of credibility and it is of strategic importance for the war:

This is the network of radars that Ruzzia uses to detect incoming ballistic threats. All short of threats (I am going to leave to you to figure out what "detection", "ballistic" and "incoming threats" mean).

Over a single week, Ukraine has damaged two of these (along with a few airframes). These are not just simple anti-air radars. They are building size and they will take a long time to repair or replace.


Why does this matter?

a) direct effect in "strategic blindness".

b) An economic effect in the war calculus: from we hurt Ukraine and it is "free" to, hey they can and will hit in stuff that hurts (that started with the Moscova BTW).

See, this is not propaganda, no tweets, no same thing...

Those radars are insignificant for current war, which is another sign that attacks are directed by UK/USA and probably preparation for nuclear assault on Russia
They serve as early warning  against intercontinental ballistic missiles
Now, imagine if attack on such objects get falsely flagged as nuclear attack and Russia responds nuking England, how would you like it?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukrainian-strike-russian-nuclear-radar-163845828.html

“Not a wise decision on the part of Ukraine,” said Hans Kristensen, a nuclear arsenal expert at the Federation of American Scientists. “Bombers and military sites in general are different because they’re used to attack Ukraine.”

Thord Are Iversen, a Norwegian military analyst, said striking a part of Russia’s nuclear-warning system was “not a particularly good idea… especially in times of tension.”

“It’s in everyone’s best interest that Russia’s ballistic missile warning system works well,” he said.

Seriously paxmao, you're now happy about attacks on ballistic missile early warning system?  Are things already that bad that you're cheering for a global nuclear annihilation?

Oh, don't be so hard on paxmao. I should be gentler with him, too. He's simply cheering a 'football team' on, while most of what he says is designed to antagonize people who don't agree with him, simply because they don't agree with him... not because he wants the war. He knows perfectly well that his 'team' has lost, and he is simply shedding tears for the losses.

The thing that he doesn't seem to realize is that the fact of his team even fighting has literally killed and maimed hundreds of thousands of them, and maybe of the opposing 'team' as well. I find it hard to believe that he actually wanted all those deaths to have happened.

Whatever the true number of casualties in this war - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=casualties+of+the+Ukraine+war&ia=web - nobody except the US government war machine and the heads of the big banks want it. This is what they have been after since they backed the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia over 100 years ago - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=who+financed+the+bolsheviks%3F&ia=web. And they are losing this war just like they lost the Bolshevik Revolution.

[paxmao]

[...]

Oh, don't be so hard on paxmao. I should be gentler with him, too. He's simply cheering a 'football team' on, while most of what he says is designed to antagonize people who don't agree with him, simply because they don't agree with him... not because he wants the war. He knows perfectly well that his 'team' has lost, and he is simply shedding tears for the losses.

The thing that he doesn't seem to realize is that the fact of his team even fighting has literally killed and maimed hundreds of thousands of them, and maybe of the opposing 'team' as well. I find it hard to believe that he actually wanted all those deaths to have happened.

Whatever the true number of casualties in this war - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=casualties+of+the+Ukraine+war&ia=web - nobody except the US government war machine and the heads of the big banks want it. This is what they have been after since they backed the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia over 100 years ago - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=who+financed+the+bolsheviks%3F&ia=web. And they are losing this war just like they lost the Bolshevik Revolution.

do not worry dumBAss, your happy bunch is what I eat for breakfast.

It is very clear that I am not cheering. You can see the difference by looking at your own post actually cheering the death of people.

[coolcoinz]

Everyone understood that you were Eastern European without you explicitly saying it  
That logic is flawed on the surface, but are you seriously not even thinking through to the second step? Even if we don't care about Ukrainian lives/statehood, don't you think that policy of punishing Russia by flooding China with cheap resources will backfire and result in far worse consequences? Or we're just so blinded by "Russia=bad" brainwashing that we don't care about anything else?

I focus on what's close and the way I see it, the conflict is local. It's not the US vs China, but Ukraine vs Russia that we're talking about. What's happening here and now is Russians and Ukrainians killing each other with the help of weapons sent to them by other countries. China is playing it's own game trying to take over Taiwan and I'm of course against that.
It's interesting that you feel like we have to be "brainwashed" to think that Russia is bad. Have you ever considered that Russia might actually be bad, or are you blinded by propaganda coming straight from Kremlin?

[BADecker]

~

do not worry dumBAss, your happy bunch is what I eat for breakfast.

It is very clear that I am not cheering. You can see the difference by looking at your own post actually cheering the death of people.

Does everybody see how paxmao is changing? He is learning that "you are what you eat." So, everybody, just give him a little more time. He is getting well from a deep sickness. So, welcome him to our team.

Welcome to our team, paxmao. Let's stop this silly war rather than feed it with more US money and weapons.

[DaRude]

[...]


Seriously paxmao, you're now happy about attacks on ballistic missile early warning system?  Are things already that bad that you're cheering for a global nuclear annihilation?

I am not happy about anything related to this war. I am point out something that does change the balance. Are you happy about Ruzzia hitting the power stations required to keep the Ukrainians warm in winter?

[...]

Those radars are insignificant for current war, which is another sign that attacks are directed by UK/USA and probably preparation for nuclear assault on Russia
They serve as early warning  against intercontinental ballistic missiles
Now, imagine if attack on such objects get falsely flagged as nuclear attack and Russia responds nuking England, how would you like it?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukrainian-strike-russian-nuclear-radar-163845828.html

“Not a wise decision on the part of Ukraine,” said Hans Kristensen, a nuclear arsenal expert at the Federation of American Scientists. “Bombers and military sites in general are different because they’re used to attack Ukraine.”

Thord Are Iversen, a Norwegian military analyst, said striking a part of Russia’s nuclear-warning system was “not a particularly good idea… especially in times of tension.”

“It’s in everyone’s best interest that Russia’s ballistic missile warning system works well,” he said.

1. Everyone seems an expert on how Ukraine should fight. I am sure you can find someone saying the oposite. But saying is saying and does not bring the radars up.
2. I am not sure what types of "experts" are these that do not know that ATCAMS are ballistic missiles, so those radars are relevant to the war clearly. Unfortunately, they are also relevant for other things.

I almost agree with the last sentence though - well, not to everyone's interest. Ukraine does not have nukes, so nothing will be coming from them.

As said, if Ruzzia cannot afford to lose this and other infrastructure they can leave Ukraine and start figuring out how to pay reparations.

Edited to note: The radars destroyed point to the south. I leave to you why did Ukraine hit those and not the northern ones.

All wars are tragedies for people. As far as power grid, world allowed NATO to set the unfortunate precedent on this, thus i believe it'd be appropriate to use NATO justification with slight adjustment for current events

"We realize the inconvenience that may be caused to the Yugoslav Ukrainian people, but it up to Milosevic Zelenskyy to decide how he wants to use his remaining energy resources: on his tanks or on his people," Shea [NATO spokesman] said.

But how does this changes the balance exactly? Pretty sure an attack on the early warning system is one of the justifications to launching a nuclear strike first. Thinking that you can take out Russian nuclear early warning system (with attempted justification to launch few ATACMS at ex Ukrainian controlled territory) is not just gambling with your own population but gambling with the whole world. If some 3rd state (that Russia sends weapons to) took out US's nuclear early warning system, I'm sure we'd all be glowing green now, Russia so far has been showing great constraint in all of this. Ukraine is attempting to force this war on to the rest of the world which should not be allowed to happen.

Everyone understood that you were Eastern European without you explicitly saying it  
That logic is flawed on the surface, but are you seriously not even thinking through to the second step? Even if we don't care about Ukrainian lives/statehood, don't you think that policy of punishing Russia by flooding China with cheap resources will backfire and result in far worse consequences? Or we're just so blinded by "Russia=bad" brainwashing that we don't care about anything else?

I focus on what's close and the way I see it, the conflict is local. It's not the US vs China, but Ukraine vs Russia that we're talking about. What's happening here and now is Russians and Ukrainians killing each other with the help of weapons sent to them by other countries. China is playing it's own game trying to take over Taiwan and I'm of course against that.
It's interesting that you feel like we have to be "brainwashed" to think that Russia is bad. Have you ever considered that Russia might actually be bad, or are you blinded by propaganda coming straight from Kremlin?

That's a big problem, you should always consider direct and indirect consequences of your actions. Geopolitics it a lot more nuanced than cartoonish good/bad guys. Expecting Russia to behave differently with Ukraine than US did with Cuba, is the definition of hypocrisy and double standards, so both must be either bad or good. I consider buying into, either NATO spreads to Ukraine or Russia is bad, ultimatum as being brainwashed. Guess that's exactly the reason why in this case no one wants you to exercise your critical thinking skills and look at this conflict holistically, just concentrate on this specific action in a complete void  

[paxmao]

[...]

But how does this changes the balance exactly? Pretty sure an attack on the early warning system is one of the justifications to launching a nuclear strike first. Thinking that you can take out Russian nuclear early warning system (with attempted justification to launch few ATACMS at ex Ukrainian controlled territory) is not just gambling with your own population but gambling with the whole world. If some 3rd state (that Russia sends weapons to) took out US's nuclear early warning system, I'm sure we'd all be glowing green now, Russia so far has been showing great constraint in all of this. Ukraine is attempting to force this war on to the rest of the world which should not be allowed to happen.

[...]

I focus on what's close and the way I see it, the conflict is local. It's not the US vs China, but Ukraine vs Russia that we're talking about. What's happening here and now is Russians and Ukrainians killing each other with the help of weapons sent to them by other countries. China is playing it's own game trying to take over Taiwan and I'm of course against that.
It's interesting that you feel like we have to be "brainwashed" to think that Russia is bad. Have you ever considered that Russia might actually be bad, or are you blinded by propaganda coming straight from Kremlin?

[...]

I have explained how it changes the balance. From Ruzzia sending hundreds of missiles and being pretty much undone, to getting a fair share of pain on expensive and difficult to replace assets. It is better that you gather a few links and news negative to Ukraine to cover this.

@coolcoinz - By now you probably figured out you are dealing here with people who are most likely paid or otherwise Kremlin trolls. There arguments are always the same, regardless of the situation (Ukraine is a possession of Ruzzia, the West is evil, if Ruzzia does something bad the West is doing something worse, "we need peace... but with an Ukrainian surrender", "the western weapons do not work", "the western weapons do not make a difference", ...)

Facts are questioned, while alternative (but proof-less) reality is put forward. denial is constant.

It is very predictable. When they call for "brotherhood" they are calling for your surrender and their dominance (they will be the "Big Brother" in all senses. Ukrainians will not have peace, they will be sent to the next conflict fighting for Moscow.

Briefly, it works like this:

@Branko - Russia can do no wrong. If they obviously do, NATO is worse, and everything is "the same". If he saw a picture of Moscow burning he would post one of a fire in a dumpster in Los Angeles to prove the above point.
@daRude - May be two people or more.  (a) Everything is always bad for Ukraine (collecting all the news that support that, while ignoring any oher). If Ukraine has an obviously positive news, then question, doubt, alternative reality,...(b) He wans peace - meaning an Ukrainian surrender, nothing else.
@BA - He is absolutely confused about nearly anything in life or... he works for China.
@be.open - I am not sure if a paid troll, but the user or users are  the victims of watching the Ruzzian TV for many years.

[...]

Welcome to our team, paxmao. Let's stop this silly war rather than feed it with more US money and weapons.
[...]

I hope you are a good musician, your destiny is not in comedy (nor in many other things).

Edit: The strike in Luhansk destroyed a Nebo M radar (and the vegetal species in the surrounding field). This is a 600 km range radar that guides / informs the S400 systems and is designed mostly to track missiles and planes - it is claimed they can detect stealth planes. My guess is Ukraine is making sure the f16s have a good chance of survival. Costs in the range of usd 100 million.

[coolcoinz]

That's a big problem, you should always consider direct and indirect consequences of your actions. Geopolitics it a lot more nuanced than cartoonish good/bad guys. Expecting Russia to behave differently with Ukraine than US did with Cuba, is the definition of hypocrisy and double standards, so both must be either bad or good. I consider buying into, either NATO spreads to Ukraine or Russia is bad, ultimatum as being brainwashed. Guess that's exactly the reason why in this case no one wants you to exercise your critical thinking skills and look at this conflict holistically, just concentrate on this specific action in a complete void  

You take me for a US supporter, which I'm not. The US did a a lot of bad things, especially in Vietnam and Iraq, but it doesn't change the fact that Russia is doing these things as we speak.
I wouldn't compare the stance of NATO to what Russia is doing. It's clearly on a different level.

@coolcoinz - By now you probably figured out you are dealing here with people who are most likely paid or otherwise Kremlin trolls. There arguments are always the same, regardless of the situation (Ukraine is a possession of Ruzzia, the West is evil, if Ruzzia does something bad the West is doing something worse, "we need peace... but with an Ukrainian surrender", "the western weapons do not work", "the western weapons do not make a difference", ...)

Facts are questioned, while alternative (but proof-less) reality is put forward. denial is constant.

It is very predictable. When they call for "brotherhood" they are calling for your surrender and their dominance (they will be the "Big Brother" in all senses. Ukrainians will not have peace, they will be sent to the next conflict fighting for Moscow.

Briefly, it works like this:

@Branko - Russia can do no wrong. If they obviously do, NATO is worse, and everything is "the same". If he saw a picture of Moscow burning he would post one of a fire in a dumpster in Los Angeles to prove the above point.
@daRude - May be two people or more.  (a) Everything is always bad for Ukraine (collecting all the news that support that, while ignoring any oher). If Ukraine has an obviously positive news, then question, doubt, alternative reality,...(b) He wans peace - meaning an Ukrainian surrender, nothing else.
@BA - He is absolutely confused about nearly anything in life or... he works for China.
@be.open - I am not sure if a paid troll, but the user or users are  the victims of watching the Ruzzian TV for many years.

I come here from time to time, usually after a few weeks break from posting in this thread to check if anything has changed. In fact one of my posts is on the very first page of this thread because I feel sympathy for Ukrainians since my parents lived in a country "liberated" by the Soviet Union and I know how people wanted to finally kick these liberators out of their country.

Russians were like neighbor's cows that wander into your field and lay there eating grass and screaming and cursing will not get them to move. You either have to get some dogs to scare them away, or use a whip. They were sitting there for decades drinking vodka, taking natural resources and giving nothing in return until the collapse of the Soviet union and protests of the local population made them run back to Mother Russia.

I'd never wish for any country to become a part of Russia, especially when that process is accompanied by what we saw in Bucha, or earlier in Katyn.

That said, you're really stubborn and dedicated, I give you that. Some Ukrainian officials should send you a medal for years of service.
On the other hand, the attitude presented by some Russians here reminds me of Lavrov. When they see you with a hand in the cookie jar, say it's not your hand. When they see you eating the cookie, say that someone stuffed it into your mouth by force.

[BADecker]

That's a big problem, you should always consider direct and indirect consequences of your actions. Geopolitics it a lot more nuanced than cartoonish good/bad guys. Expecting Russia to behave differently with Ukraine than US did with Cuba, is the definition of hypocrisy and double standards, so both must be either bad or good. I consider buying into, either NATO spreads to Ukraine or Russia is bad, ultimatum as being brainwashed. Guess that's exactly the reason why in this case no one wants you to exercise your critical thinking skills and look at this conflict holistically, just concentrate on this specific action in a complete void  

You take me for a US supporter, which I'm not. The US did a a lot of bad things, especially in Vietnam and Iraq, but it doesn't change the fact that Russia is doing these things as we speak.
I wouldn't compare the stance of NATO to what Russia is doing. It's clearly on a different level.

@coolcoinz - By now you probably figured out you are dealing here with people who are most likely paid or otherwise Kremlin trolls. There arguments are always the same, regardless of the situation (Ukraine is a possession of Ruzzia, the West is evil, if Ruzzia does something bad the West is doing something worse, "we need peace... but with an Ukrainian surrender", "the western weapons do not work", "the western weapons do not make a difference", ...)

Facts are questioned, while alternative (but proof-less) reality is put forward. denial is constant.

It is very predictable. When they call for "brotherhood" they are calling for your surrender and their dominance (they will be the "Big Brother" in all senses. Ukrainians will not have peace, they will be sent to the next conflict fighting for Moscow.

Briefly, it works like this:

@Branko - Russia can do no wrong. If they obviously do, NATO is worse, and everything is "the same". If he saw a picture of Moscow burning he would post one of a fire in a dumpster in Los Angeles to prove the above point.
@daRude - May be two people or more.  (a) Everything is always bad for Ukraine (collecting all the news that support that, while ignoring any oher). If Ukraine has an obviously positive news, then question, doubt, alternative reality,...(b) He wans peace - meaning an Ukrainian surrender, nothing else.
@BA - He is absolutely confused about nearly anything in life or... he works for China.
@be.open - I am not sure if a paid troll, but the user or users are  the victims of watching the Ruzzian TV for many years.

I come here from time to time, usually after a few weeks break from posting in this thread to check if anything has changed. In fact one of my posts is on the very first page of this thread because I feel sympathy for Ukrainians since my parents lived in a country "liberated" by the Soviet Union and I know how people wanted to finally kick these liberators out of their country.

Russians were like neighbor's cows that wander into your field and lay there eating grass and screaming and cursing will get them to move. You either have to get some dogs to scare them away, or use a whip. They were sitting there for decades drinking vodka, taking natural resources and giving nothing in return until the collapse of the Soviet union and protests of the local population made them run back to Mother Russia.

I'd never wish for any country to become a part of Russia, especially when that process is accompanied by what we saw in Bucha, or earlier in Katyn.

That said, you're really stubborn and dedicated, I give you that. Some Ukrainian officials should send you a medal for years of service.
On the other hand, the attitude presented by some Russians here reminds me of Lavrov. When they see you with a hand in the cookie jar, say it's not your hand. When they see you eating the cookie, say that someone stuffed it into your mouth by force.

Russia is not the USSR. Rather, Ukraine is the one using USSR tactics.

Ukraine started with the USSR tactics way back before 2014 by killing their own people in the Donbas area, as well as going over the border into Russia at times. Russia finally got sick of it, and the war started as Russia tried to stop Ukraine governmental USSR tactics.

If the US and Nato had not stuck their nose into it, it all would have been over in a couple of months. Russia simply would have stopped Kiev from harming their own people.

WATCH: Tucker: Smartest take on U.S. foreign policy ever caught on tape - https://www.wnd.com/2024/05/watch-tucker-smartest-take-u-s-foreign-policy-ever-caught-tape/.

[Branko]

When they see you eating the cookie, say that someone stuffed it into your mouth by force.

That was Nuland, not Lavrov

[xminer]

Things are both simple and complicated for case of Ukraine:
1) we (still) have different language preferences - a significant part of the country speaks russian. Some try to "migrate" to ukrainian but that is an endless source for (stupid) jokes. Nobody cared about language issues when people voted for independence of Ukraine in 1991. Majority understand well both languages and can speak both as well (basically VERY limited number of people speak "clean" ukrainian or russian without using words from the other language, sometimes transformed appropriately - just like kids do that)
2) we have different Christian confessions with issues like "we want our brand of Christianity with pagan gods included"; on the other hand - nobody cares about different kinds of Islam/Judaism, as well as Catholics, all sorts of cultists and so on.
3) some population wants to live in "Russia from TV" or maybe even real one but can't migrate there for obvious reasons (simply put - no money and bureaucracy). Some still dream of USSR - mostly retired people forced to live getting $100+-/month.
4) some will do anything for cash, sometimes after precalculating the final odds.

It's easy to spot multiple internal conflicts and things went well more or less till 2004 - with balance not being forced by either side. Winning presidential elections was a no-brainer - give some hints that you'll make 2 "state languages" and you get support from russian-speaking part, add something really valuable for ukrainian speakers - and you've got the majority. Then Maidan-2004 has happened, with typical "fight corruption" and "for everything good" promises, resulting in ignorance of votes of half of the country, a pause used for pouring a ton of sh*t on one candidate and praising the other and a third tour of voting; at the same time a part of the voters were mocked by another part - "Downbass" referring to Down syndrome and "Luganda" populated by "lugandonians" referring to Uganda (or Luanda - basically most people from the street will not tell the difference) and condoms, probably "condoniggaz" will be the suitable translation. And that parts of the country had all the coal mining and majority of heavy industry. Then hopes got broken by more corruption scandals directly related to the president and a clear win of the former looser in 2009. Of course even more corruption has followed (who'd have doubted) resulting in 2013 "Maidan" starting as usual and ending as totally radical nationalistic venue being carried out to all parts of the country; 2004 had a bit less nationalism and much less hatred, it was more a funny freak show.

Of course this situation was exploited by Russia - with full range grades of success (Crimea) and failures (Kharkiv, Dnipropetrovsk, Odesa) with Donbas region taking part somewhere in the middle. But who has created it and what were the goals? What did they expect or hoped for? Or they simply tried to pursue their own interests using third-party funds and doing what they were told to do? Maybe some day in memoirs we'll get the real picture.

[DaRude]

That's a big problem, you should always consider direct and indirect consequences of your actions. Geopolitics it a lot more nuanced than cartoonish good/bad guys. Expecting Russia to behave differently with Ukraine than US did with Cuba, is the definition of hypocrisy and double standards, so both must be either bad or good. I consider buying into, either NATO spreads to Ukraine or Russia is bad, ultimatum as being brainwashed. Guess that's exactly the reason why in this case no one wants you to exercise your critical thinking skills and look at this conflict holistically, just concentrate on this specific action in a complete void  

You take me for a US supporter, which I'm not. The US did a a lot of bad things, especially in Vietnam and Iraq, but it doesn't change the fact that Russia is doing these things as we speak.
I wouldn't compare the stance of NATO to what Russia is doing. It's clearly on a different level.

@coolcoinz - By now you probably figured out you are dealing here with people who are most likely paid or otherwise Kremlin trolls. There arguments are always the same, regardless of the situation (Ukraine is a possession of Ruzzia, the West is evil, if Ruzzia does something bad the West is doing something worse, "we need peace... but with an Ukrainian surrender", "the western weapons do not work", "the western weapons do not make a difference", ...)

Facts are questioned, while alternative (but proof-less) reality is put forward. denial is constant.

It is very predictable. When they call for "brotherhood" they are calling for your surrender and their dominance (they will be the "Big Brother" in all senses. Ukrainians will not have peace, they will be sent to the next conflict fighting for Moscow.

Briefly, it works like this:

@Branko - Russia can do no wrong. If they obviously do, NATO is worse, and everything is "the same". If he saw a picture of Moscow burning he would post one of a fire in a dumpster in Los Angeles to prove the above point.
@daRude - May be two people or more.  (a) Everything is always bad for Ukraine (collecting all the news that support that, while ignoring any oher). If Ukraine has an obviously positive news, then question, doubt, alternative reality,...(b) He wans peace - meaning an Ukrainian surrender, nothing else.
@BA - He is absolutely confused about nearly anything in life or... he works for China.
@be.open - I am not sure if a paid troll, but the user or users are  the victims of watching the Ruzzian TV for many years.

I come here from time to time, usually after a few weeks break from posting in this thread to check if anything has changed. In fact one of my posts is on the very first page of this thread because I feel sympathy for Ukrainians since my parents lived in a country "liberated" by the Soviet Union and I know how people wanted to finally kick these liberators out of their country.

Russians were like neighbor's cows that wander into your field and lay there eating grass and screaming and cursing will not get them to move. You either have to get some dogs to scare them away, or use a whip. They were sitting there for decades drinking vodka, taking natural resources and giving nothing in return until the collapse of the Soviet union and protests of the local population made them run back to Mother Russia.

I'd never wish for any country to become a part of Russia, especially when that process is accompanied by what we saw in Bucha, or earlier in Katyn.

That said, you're really stubborn and dedicated, I give you that. Some Ukrainian officials should send you a medal for years of service.
On the other hand, the attitude presented by some Russians here reminds me of Lavrov. When they see you with a hand in the cookie jar, say it's not your hand. When they see you eating the cookie, say that someone stuffed it into your mouth by force.

I don't take you for anything, I'm just saying that viewing this conflict in isolation, as if this conflict is about a land grab (because Russia needs more land  ) while admittedly is very beneficial for propaganda, couldn't be more erroneous. Expanding military alliances that attacks other countries without UN approval, to your competitors borders while proclaiming to want peace, and then acting dumbfound why other countries view it as existential threat is really just trying to take the rest of the world for idiots. If you remember USSR so well, you should realize striking similarities between this and the pinnacle of the previous nuclear conflict where the roles were reversed. US viewing USSR expanding to a country close to it's borders as an existential threat, and prevented it, disregarding all international laws and that third country's rights to self-govern. History does not repeat itself, but it rhymes.

The root cause seems to be the brainwashed thinking that status quo should be changed and NATO should spread to Ukraine, Georgia, Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Taiwan etc... for those countries to be "liberated" and be "protected", should sound very familiar to you. Georgia's government seems to have made a decision regarding use of their people in a proxy war.

Unfortunately with politicians when they corner themselves into a position their only choice becomes to keep doubling down until replaced, as we're observing in Israel.

[paxmao]

There are news of strong explosions on the Kerch Bridge between Crimea and "mainland" Ruzzia. For the moment there is no evidence of a successful strike in the area but there are some videos that may be just an active air defence or maybe an strike with a degree of success... or maybe failed. What is clear is that there is intention to strike and the previous weeks strikes may be opening the way for a future Ukrainian success here.

At the same time, Suspilne Krym quoted a local resident.

Quote: "It is very loud in the city now. We heard six or seven explosions of approximately the same force. The windows in the house were shaking a little bit."

Update: At 02:51, Kryuchkov reported that two ferries were damaged – a car ferry and a railway ferry.

Quote from Kryuchkov: "During the repelling of the enemy attack on the transport infrastructure of Kerch, two ferries – a car and a railway ferry – were damaged by the fragments of downed missiles, and the glazing of the extension buildings was damaged. There were no casualties."

[xminer]

I come here from time to time, usually after a few weeks break from posting in this thread to check if anything has changed. In fact one of my posts is on the very first page of this thread because I feel sympathy for Ukrainians since my parents lived in a country "liberated" by the Soviet Union and I know how people wanted to finally kick these liberators out of their country.

I'd never wish for any country to become a part of Russia, especially when that process is accompanied by what we saw in Bucha, or earlier in Katyn.

"Bucha butchery". Too many PR-related coincidences. This whole war rotates around PR bullshit.

There's just one issue with current warfare - everybody has a radio transmitter. You know what would have happened to you in WW2 if you were a civilian and had one? Why this time it should have been the other way? An idiot riding a bicycle talking over the phone gets shot, a guy who took the order and executed the civilian gets sentenced. Russia has failed to do the war properly - "Post office, telegraph, telephone, banks" ((c) Lenin, 1917 revolution) - neither was hit by initial strikes or later. Effect? Each civilian became a potential spy, informer, artillery corrector. Not mentioning stupid situation with russian soldiers using ukrainian sim-cards to do calls.

"Destroyed cities" - army of Ukraine is defending and choosing where to fight, with predictable consequences. So far russians didn't try playing "Stalingrad" anywhere.

Russia is not the USSR. Rather, Ukraine is the one using USSR tactics.

Ukraine started with the USSR tactics way back before 2014 by killing their own people in the Donbas area, as well as going over the border into Russia at times. Russia finally got sick of it, and the war started as Russia tried to stop Ukraine governmental USSR tactics.

If the US and Nato had not stuck their nose into it, it all would have been over in a couple of months. Russia simply would have stopped Kiev from harming their own people.

Russians wanted to change Ukraine - they clearly understood that conquering it will be like conquering 20 Chechnya's.
Neither is USSR but Ukraine tries to (miserably) resemble it when it comes to motivating people to go and die. Doesn't work in capitalist world. They promised "we'll pay out $300K" (15M UAH) to the relatives of KIA soldiers - didn't deliver. That is called fraud. And it's not the first time by "Ze" government. First was promising to pay over 400K UAH as an aid for a newborn child (it was from 12K up to 60KUAH=7.5K USD before Poroshenko and became flat ~45K UAH - 1,5KUSD spread through 3 years which was not even enough to buy "Pampers"), then they've refused to recognize death after Covid vaccine and pay out anything. (Only monetary cases reviewed, populist political promises are untouched)

Thing is that "people" in 2014 and people in 2024 - are very different. 10 years of propaganda and "adjusted" education did wonders. I have a friend who had spent 2 days to get mobilized "anywhere" literally on the first 2 days of war. "We were attacked, we must not surrender or agree to russian terms" was his motivation. Has has passed Bakhmut, Chernihiv, and other parts of the country I've never even heard of before the war. Now he has "left his brigade by himself" and faces a "bright" perspective of 5-12 years sentence, after 2+ years in trenches. (funny - he wanted to return but "go get attorney" has stopped him)

If Ukraine did play wisely in politics - this war would have never happened in the first place. Shortly after the start of the war - we've got official confessions from top politicians that Ukraine had at least 3-4 months to outplay plans of Russia. Nobody didn't even try; many people were openly laughing to Putin's "security assurance" proposals - I'd like to see them doing the same at the cemeteries where their friends are buried.

There are news of strong explosions on the Kerch Bridge between Crimea and "mainland" Ruzzia. For the moment there is no evidence of a successful strike in the area but there are some videos that may be just an active air defence or maybe an strike with a degree of success... or maybe failed. What is clear is that there is intention to strike and the previous weeks strikes may be opening the way for a future Ukrainian success here.

Basically - "who cares?". It's not that much critical anymore and even if it's destroyed - does Ukraine have enough forces to exploit this success? I doubt that. And if it doesn't - then it's again a pure PR/waste of resources bs that is performed all the time instead of real military operations. While russians try to destroy our military and infrastructure objects - our "volunteers" try to destroy some random something in the middle of nowhere instead, accomplishing only one task - making russians realize they are at war and need to go and fight.

It was stupid to attack Belgorod with limited forces for weeks instead of keeping silent/digging trenches for months and then doing insane Prigozhin-style breakthrough at that part of the front, cutting off every bridge and communication device found on the way, all the way to Azov Sea and maybe some other directions.


[moderator's note: multiple posts have been merged]

[DaRude]

There are news of strong explosions on the Kerch Bridge between Crimea and "mainland" Ruzzia. For the moment there is no evidence of a successful strike in the area but there are some videos that may be just an active air defence or maybe an strike with a degree of success... or maybe failed. What is clear is that there is intention to strike and the previous weeks strikes may be opening the way for a future Ukrainian success here.

At the same time, Suspilne Krym quoted a local resident.

Quote: "It is very loud in the city now. We heard six or seven explosions of approximately the same force. The windows in the house were shaking a little bit."

Update: At 02:51, Kryuchkov reported that two ferries were damaged – a car ferry and a railway ferry.

Quote from Kryuchkov: "During the repelling of the enemy attack on the transport infrastructure of Kerch, two ferries – a car and a railway ferry – were damaged by the fragments of downed missiles, and the glazing of the extension buildings was damaged. There were no casualties."

Nah, almost but not yet, too soon. They need to wait for the railway to be completed over the land bridge first, which will make the Kerch Bridge redundant. It's already in the final stages with the train already been spotted on some track That way you might finally get some pictures to post here and gloat about, but once again it'll be too late to make a difference, just as usual. You get to gloat claiming yet another miracle balance shifting attack, while in reality Ukraine will continue to loose more people and land, it'll be a win-win, you should know the process by now.

The aggressor state of russia is preparing to launch a railway branch that should connect the temporarily occupied Donetsk and Mariupol of the Donetsk Region.

This is stated in the Frontelligence Insight report.

According to analysts, russia needs a new railway line in case the Kerch bridge collapses. With the help of such a combination, the occupiers will be able to establish an uninterrupted supply of ammunition and manpower to the south of Ukraine and Crimea.

Some satellite images showed the train moving.

[coolcoinz]

I don't take you for anything, I'm just saying that viewing this conflict in isolation, as if this conflict is about a land grab (because Russia needs more land  ) while admittedly is very beneficial for propaganda, couldn't be more erroneous.

So, they don't want natural resources, one of the biggest deposits of iron ore and a decent amount of uranium, to name a few. Russia also doesn't want easy access to the Black Sea and the largest power plant in Europe, not to mention the second largest Black Sea port in Odessa. Nobody cares about petty things like that.

Expanding military alliances that attacks other countries without UN approval,

You know damn well that UN votes are a joke since permanent members can veto any UN resolution and guess who is one of the 5 permanent members

The root cause seems to be the brainwashed thinking that status quo should be changed and NATO should spread to Ukraine, Georgia, Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Taiwan etc...

Why do you mix together countries with different politics and ambitions? For instance Belarus doesn't want to be a NATO member, contrary to Georgia and Armenia, but they aren't being asked by NATO to join. It's not NATO that is coming to them, but they're trying to get into NATO. Why is that? What are they so afraid? Maybe they don't want to become a part of the Soviet Union again?

[DaRude]

I don't take you for anything, I'm just saying that viewing this conflict in isolation, as if this conflict is about a land grab (because Russia needs more land  ) while admittedly is very beneficial for propaganda, couldn't be more erroneous.

So, they don't want natural resources, one of the biggest deposits of iron ore and a decent amount of uranium, to name a few. Russia also doesn't want easy access to the Black Sea and the largest power plant in Europe, not to mention the second largest Black Sea port in Odessa. Nobody cares about petty things like that.

Expanding military alliances that attacks other countries without UN approval,

You know damn well that UN votes are a joke since permanent members can veto any UN resolution and guess who is one of the 5 permanent members

The root cause seems to be the brainwashed thinking that status quo should be changed and NATO should spread to Ukraine, Georgia, Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Taiwan etc...

Why do you mix together countries with different politics and ambitions? For instance Belarus doesn't want to be a NATO member, contrary to Georgia and Armenia, but they aren't being asked by NATO to join. It's not NATO that is coming to them, but they're trying to get into NATO. Why is that? What are they so afraid? Maybe they don't want to become a part of the Soviet Union again?

Nah that is clearly not about natural resources, Russia already had easy access to the Black Sea, and has plethora of electrical power generation. Plus Ukraine was aligned with Russia prior to cookies arriving.

UN is the best thing we could come up with. If we destroy that, we're back to the strongest doing whatever he wants, and with China set to bypass US is that really what you want? Also, I'll gladly listen to your alternatives to UN

Because we've already been through this, the precedent was set and continues to be up kept. It doesn't matter how much Cuba wants to be in military alliance with Russia, or how much beneficial Russia/China can make it for Cuban population, they can make Cuba the most prosperous place on earth, but non of this matters because US just won't allow it. And it's for the better, you don't want super powers buying their way closer to another super power's border, it's called spheres of influence and that's what kept our species from removing ourselves off this planet. But now one power decided to break that delicate balance, and change the status quo by bringing cookies, with expected results from other powers.

[Betwrong]

~
Yandex? You propose to use a Russian-controlled search engine to see what is really happening?

It's so ludicrous that it's actually funny.  

Actually, I tested it a bit and compared to Google...its hilarious how much Google is controlled compared to Yandex
Yandex gives me exactly what I'm searching for ~

That's not surprising at all. Judging by your posts here, I'm surprised you hadn't found this Russian-controlled search engine earlier.

Just as Hitler's Germany lost its battle with the civilized world, Putin's Russia is also destined to lose.