How Satoshi Nakamoto Fooled the World

[Snowshow]

I see that people here vehemently ignore the important poit to which this discussion has come. So, I will make another video and open a new topic to explain this point in more detail. And maybe save some people here from the bitcoin scam. Now that the big names have invested in this scam the pool of new suckers is closer to drying up. And now is an ideal time not to be a sucker (holder) anymore. If the video that I am going to make won't convince you, due to either greed or ego, then you'll pay the price when the system callapses. And this will happen for sure. It will happen for the same reason all scams collapse - there's no value created or present in the system from which the members/holders/suckers could return their investments.

No need for bolding of your whole post... diptwat.

One of the great things about an asymmetric bet like bitcoin is that you do not need to lose leverage, and sure you could lose everything. .but the value that is being created by having bitcoin as a system.. causes for so much more upside potential than has already come to this asset class.. whether it takes 2-6 years before our next upwards price run.. or maybe it could take longer (such as 8-12 years) for those who can ONLY invest small amounts to start to feel meaningful impacts on their overall financial well-being from merely responsible investing small amounts on a regular basis (something like dollar cost averaging).

Another thing is that the various systems built around bitcoin and the knowledge space has already created value (and brought value to society) above and beyond the price appreciation that
BTC accumulators and HODLers have felt on a more personal level...

Maybe it is true with all paradigm shifting technologies, whether we are talking about more recent inventions like the internet or the automobile or airplane or even the invention of the wheel.. Other things in societies  ended up getting built on such systems that had not previously been possible..   the refrigerator, radio and telephone too... oh and of course, there were other things like that, too... but bitcoin has a kind of invention of a second internet, but one that allows for value to be transmitted on top of it without anyone being able to stop the transmission of such value... It is already BIG and likely to continue to be BIG.... a part of the greatest wealth transfer ever..even if it might take 20, 50, 100, or more years to play out...  

Better if you jump onto bitcoin sooner rather than later Snowshow... #justsaying.

Yes, that's the narrative you need to push in order to find new suckers in the market and sell them your worthless bitcoin certificates. But people are not buying these nonsense stories anymore. They know that thay cannot return their investments from beautiful stories on how bitcoin will be new internet or save the humanity. The pool of suckers is drying up.

[so98nn]

The reason is simple: whoever enters the Satoshi's system recieves no coins, no bit-coins.  No assets, no money. Nothing tangible nor intangible. Nothing physical nor digital. Instead, people are just paying for numbers to be changed next to their addresses.

Please don’t tell this secrete to my bank because they just credited me with real fiat money for the bitcoins which I sold on exchanger. Lolz.

If they did not exist then such transactions would never happen. Remember it’s inter and intra connected economical system which is in loop. Miners mine it using electricity, they pay the bills, they generate revenue, we use minted coins and use them to buy products and services.

In the process fiat is also moving and making sure that bitcoin has a value.

[Snowshow]

The reason is simple: whoever enters the Satoshi's system recieves no coins, no bit-coins.  No assets, no money. Nothing tangible nor intangible. Nothing physical nor digital. Instead, people are just paying for numbers to be changed next to their addresses.

Please don’t tell this secrete to my bank because they just credited me with real fiat money for the bitcoins which I sold on exchanger. Lolz.

If they did not exist then such transactions would never happen. Remember it’s inter and intra connected economical system which is in loop. Miners mine it using electricity, they pay the bills, they generate revenue, we use minted coins and use them to buy products and services.

In the process fiat is also moving and making sure that bitcoin has a value.

You're the victim of a false narrative. Stay tuned for my new topic. There I will explain everything and you'll realize why you're wrong. Or you can read the last couple of pages of this topic.

[DooMAD]

So, I will make another video and open a new topic to explain this point in more detail.

And I strongly advise everyone reports that new topic to the moderators as a duplicate.  Because this spamming shitheap blatantly just wants to sweep all the arguments against him aside and post more of the same nonsense.

They should already be banned due to ban-evasion, so don't allow them to make a further mockery of the forums.

[Snowshow]

So, I will make another video and open a new topic to explain this point in more detail.

And I strongly advise everyone reports that new topic to the moderators as a duplicate.  Because this spamming shitheap blatantly just wants to sweep all the arguments against him aside and post more of the same nonsense.

They should already be banned due to ban-evasion, so don't allow them to make a further mockery of the forums.

People are not interested in your descriptions or fantasies about me. People are interested in truth.

[Newbie.]

Extremely strange argumentation. Let's say that the OS does not exist on your computer, because it is an abstract code that is somewhere out there, you don't see it and don't notice it.

For example, I cannot see the author of this topic and see only words folded into sentences. Should I assume that the author of this topic doesn't exist in reality?

[Snowshow]

Extremely strange argumentation. Let's say that the OS does not exist on your computer, because it is an abstract code that is somewhere out there, you don't see it and don't notice it.

For example, I cannot see the author of this topic and see only words folded into sentences. Should I assume that the author of this topic doesn't exist in reality?

If there's something in reality - inside the bitcoin system, then why not a single holder of certificates (Bitcoins) issued by this system, is not able to return their investment from within the system, but is forced to wait for new investors to bring something in?

Do you understand now how nonsensical your analogy is?

[JayJuanGee]

I see that people here vehemently ignore the important poit to which this discussion has come. So, I will make another video and open a new topic to explain this point in more detail. And maybe save some people here from the bitcoin scam. Now that the big names have invested in this scam the pool of new suckers is closer to drying up. And now is an ideal time not to be a sucker (holder) anymore. If the video that I am going to make won't convince you, due to either greed or ego, then you'll pay the price when the system callapses. And this will happen for sure. It will happen for the same reason all scams collapse - there's no value created or present in the system from which the members/holders/suckers could return their investments.

No need for bolding of your whole post... diptwat.

One of the great things about an asymmetric bet like bitcoin is that you do not need to lose leverage, and sure you could lose everything. .but the value that is being created by having bitcoin as a system.. causes for so much more upside potential than has already come to this asset class.. whether it takes 2-6 years before our next upwards price run.. or maybe it could take longer (such as 8-12 years) for those who can ONLY invest small amounts to start to feel meaningful impacts on their overall financial well-being from merely responsible investing small amounts on a regular basis (something like dollar cost averaging).

Another thing is that the various systems built around bitcoin and the knowledge space has already created value (and brought value to society) above and beyond the price appreciation that
BTC accumulators and HODLers have felt on a more personal level...

Maybe it is true with all paradigm shifting technologies, whether we are talking about more recent inventions like the internet or the automobile or airplane or even the invention of the wheel.. Other things in societies  ended up getting built on such systems that had not previously been possible..   the refrigerator, radio and telephone too... oh and of course, there were other things like that, too... but bitcoin has a kind of invention of a second internet, but one that allows for value to be transmitted on top of it without anyone being able to stop the transmission of such value... It is already BIG and likely to continue to be BIG.... a part of the greatest wealth transfer ever..even if it might take 20, 50, 100, or more years to play out...  

Better if you jump onto bitcoin sooner rather than later Snowshow... #justsaying.

Yes, that's the narrative you need to push in order to find new suckers in the market and sell them your worthless bitcoin certificates.

I don't know if I need to push anything.

A somewhat funny thing about bitcoin continues to be that it does not really have any kind of a marketing team.. even though there are various bitcoin evangelists.. and people who do promote bitcoin. sometimes for free and sometimes they get paid, but bitcoin does not have any kind of marketing budget.

Some folks from within bitcoin do want to give back in various ways.. so maybe sometimes to the uneducated, it might seem like there is some kind of marketing team... so yes.. there is some subtlety within the ideas of benefiting in regards to spreading positive information about bitcoin....

There are also quite a few examples of bitcoin pumpers who end up deviating in their message and they start to pump shitcoins or they seem to get disenchanted with bitcoin.. so it is not always clear in regards to whether someone is speaking in the promotion of bitcoin or if they have gone into some other direction.. none of those kinds of supposed bitcoin promotional matters are as straight-forward as you seem to be suggesting them to be.

But people are not buying these nonsense stories anymore. They know that thay cannot return their investments from beautiful stories on how bitcoin will be new internet or save the humanity. The pool of suckers is drying up.

Even though I disagree with your characterization of newbies as if they were gullible suckers or that bitcoin HODLers are in any kind of desperate need to convince them to come into bitcoin, Bitcoin still has a pretty tiny level of adoption, so even though we cannot be sure in the short term about price fluctuations and even that some folks might get discouraged, overall the adoption and network effects continue to expand even in spite of various negative campaigns (like yours) or the actual material attempts to directly dump upon bitcoin.. so some of those folks who are engaging in naked-shorting bitcoin could end up getting their asses handed to them in pretty severe ways if they do not have the bitcoin that they claim to have or they are betting against bitcoin but they do not have adequate exposure and bitcoin prices go up rather than their DOWNity hopiums.. some of them could end up getting royally reckt (even if some people perceive them to have an infinite amount of printing power in regards to dollars to throw at trying to keep king daddy down). 

[Snowshow]

I see that people here vehemently ignore the important poit to which this discussion has come. So, I will make another video and open a new topic to explain this point in more detail. And maybe save some people here from the bitcoin scam. Now that the big names have invested in this scam the pool of new suckers is closer to drying up. And now is an ideal time not to be a sucker (holder) anymore. If the video that I am going to make won't convince you, due to either greed or ego, then you'll pay the price when the system callapses. And this will happen for sure. It will happen for the same reason all scams collapse - there's no value created or present in the system from which the members/holders/suckers could return their investments.

No need for bolding of your whole post... diptwat.

One of the great things about an asymmetric bet like bitcoin is that you do not need to lose leverage, and sure you could lose everything. .but the value that is being created by having bitcoin as a system.. causes for so much more upside potential than has already come to this asset class.. whether it takes 2-6 years before our next upwards price run.. or maybe it could take longer (such as 8-12 years) for those who can ONLY invest small amounts to start to feel meaningful impacts on their overall financial well-being from merely responsible investing small amounts on a regular basis (something like dollar cost averaging).

Another thing is that the various systems built around bitcoin and the knowledge space has already created value (and brought value to society) above and beyond the price appreciation that
BTC accumulators and HODLers have felt on a more personal level...

Maybe it is true with all paradigm shifting technologies, whether we are talking about more recent inventions like the internet or the automobile or airplane or even the invention of the wheel.. Other things in societies  ended up getting built on such systems that had not previously been possible..   the refrigerator, radio and telephone too... oh and of course, there were other things like that, too... but bitcoin has a kind of invention of a second internet, but one that allows for value to be transmitted on top of it without anyone being able to stop the transmission of such value... It is already BIG and likely to continue to be BIG.... a part of the greatest wealth transfer ever..even if it might take 20, 50, 100, or more years to play out...  

Better if you jump onto bitcoin sooner rather than later Snowshow... #justsaying.

Yes, that's the narrative you need to push in order to find new suckers in the market and sell them your worthless bitcoin certificates.

I don't know if I need to push anything.

A somewhat funny thing about bitcoin continues to be that it does not really have any kind of a marketing team.. even though there are various bitcoin evangelists.. and people who do promote bitcoin. sometimes for free and sometimes they get paid, but bitcoin does not have any kind of marketing budget.

Some folks from within bitcoin do want to give back in various ways.. so maybe sometimes to the uneducated, it might seem like there is some kind of marketing team... so yes.. there is some subtlety within the ideas of benefiting in regards to spreading positive information about bitcoin....

There are also quite a few examples of bitcoin pumpers who end up deviating in their message and they start to pump shitcoins or they seem to get disenchanted with bitcoin.. so it is not always clear in regards to whether someone is speaking in the promotion of bitcoin or if they have gone into some other direction.. none of those kinds of supposed bitcoin promotional matters are as straight-forward as you seem to be suggesting them to be.

But people are not buying these nonsense stories anymore. They know that thay cannot return their investments from beautiful stories on how bitcoin will be new internet or save the humanity. The pool of suckers is drying up.

Even though I disagree with your characterization of newbies as if they were gullible suckers or that bitcoin HODLers are in any kind of desperate need to convince them to come into bitcoin, Bitcoin still has a pretty tiny level of adoption, so even though we cannot be sure in the short term about price fluctuations and even that some folks might get discouraged, overall the adoption and network effects continue to expand even in spite of various negative campaigns (like yours) or the actual material attempts to directly dump upon bitcoin.. so some of those folks who are engaging in naked-shorting bitcoin could end up getting their asses handed to them in pretty severe ways if they do not have the bitcoin that they claim to have or they are betting against bitcoin but they do not have adequate exposure and bitcoin prices go up rather than their DOWNity hopiums.. some of them could end up getting royally reckt (even if some people perceive them to have an infinite amount of printing power in regards to dollars to throw at trying to keep king daddy down).  

Everything you said in this topic, is a some kind of bitcoin marketing or evangelism. In reality, there's not much to say about bitcoin. It's just an evidence, a some form of certificate, verifying that people invested in the bitcoin system. While the whole bitcoin system is just a distributed storing of these certificates. From the investment point of view there's zero value in all this. But given that people, you included, bought these certificates which grant access to zero value, you're all forced to find new suckers otherwise you won't be able to return your investments. And this is where the need for storytelling, marketing and evangelism came from. From the fact that certificates are completely worthless. If something is worthless, and you must sell it at a higher price, than you will use all your rhetorical and other powers to present it in a positive way. And that's all what you bitcoin holders are doing all day long. Storytelling, marketing and evangelism that show bitcoin as some kind gift from the sky that will save humanity, make poor counties rich, revolutionarize financial world, replace fiat currency system, and so on. A mere worthless certificates will do all that. It's hilarious and pathetic. But I understand. In order to get rid of something worthless, all means are allowed.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

Everything you said in this topic, is a some kind of bitcoin marketing or evangelism. In reality, there's not much to say about bitcoin. It's just an evidence, a some form of certificate, verifying that people invested in the bitcoin system. While the whole bitcoin system is just a distributed storing of these certificates. From the investment point of view there's zero value in all this. But given that people, you included, bought these certificates which grant access to zero value, you're all forced to find new suckers otherwise you won't be able to return your investments. And this is where the need for storytelling, marketing and evangelism came from. From the fact that certificates are completely worthless. If something is worthless, and you must sell it, than you will use all your rhetorical and other powers to present it in a positive way. And that's all what you bitcoin holder are doing all day long. Storytelling, marketing and evangelism that show bitcoin as some kind gift from the sky that will save humanity, make poor counties rich, revolutionarize financial world, replace fiat currency system, and so on. A mere worthless certificates will do all that. It's hilarious and pathetic. But I understand. In order to get rid of something worthless, all means are allowed.

You're coming off as desperate Snowshow.  

You should have stopped while you were ahead... (presuming that at some point you might have been ahead, which is a pretty BIG presumption)..

 

[Snowshow]

[edited out]

Everything you said in this topic, is a some kind of bitcoin marketing or evangelism. In reality, there's not much to say about bitcoin. It's just an evidence, a some form of certificate, verifying that people invested in the bitcoin system. While the whole bitcoin system is just a distributed storing of these certificates. From the investment point of view there's zero value in all this. But given that people, you included, bought these certificates which grant access to zero value, you're all forced to find new suckers otherwise you won't be able to return your investments. And this is where the need for storytelling, marketing and evangelism came from. From the fact that certificates are completely worthless. If something is worthless, and you must sell it, than you will use all your rhetorical and other powers to present it in a positive way. And that's all what you bitcoin holder are doing all day long. Storytelling, marketing and evangelism that show bitcoin as some kind gift from the sky that will save humanity, make poor counties rich, revolutionarize financial world, replace fiat currency system, and so on. A mere worthless certificates will do all that. It's hilarious and pathetic. But I understand. In order to get rid of something worthless, all means are allowed.

You're coming off as desperate Snowshow.  

You should have stopped while you were ahead... (presuming that at some point you might have been ahead, which is a pretty BIG presumption)..

 

Yeah, I hit the nail on the head with this one. Even you, who is capable of writing a wall of text in order to respond to a single word, were left speechless.

[KaliLinux]

Where is your bitcoin if after paying $40,000 only the swap of symbols happened in your electronic address? This: "0", changed into this: "1". What exactly is "meaningful"?

It's meaningful if we both agree it is. It's as simple as that.

After that, mathematical symbol "0" was swapped for this symbol: "1". And that means you are "free".

If they later find others who're willing to give their goods & services for a currency that is controlled by no financial institutions, it is called freedom. Monetary authorities are run by people who may abuse their position, against the rest, for their own benefit. They're central points of failure.

Humans do mistakes, whether those happen on purpose or not, and those mistakes have consequences. However, if a financial institution (such as a central bank) does a mistake, its impact is potentially on the entire economy. And it is highly likely that people will, sooner or later, abuse their power.

The fact that no one is able to change a symbol in your address, making it censorship resistant

It is clear that you haven't understood the basics. Censorship resistance comes from the lack of feasibility to reverse a transaction, not to change symbols on addresses.

What is meaningful? Where are the transactions in the bitcoin system?

A transaction is a completed agreement between a buyer and a seller to exchange goods, services, or financial assets in return for money.

Where's good, where's service, money, asset... if is the only thing that's going on is the change of numbers next to addresses?

I really don't get all this your hatred for Bitcoin but what I don't understand is how do you understand Fiat currency and not Bitcoin? So back in the years when there was no paper money and people would do trade by bather and later cowries and eventually paper money, how did all this method got accepted? because the people accepted them. So some ink can be printed on paper and because the government told you that is it's worth you accepted it and if that same value is transmitted digitally for transactions you still accept it even without the physical nature and Bitcoin is difficult for you to understand?

[Snowshow]

Where is your bitcoin if after paying $40,000 only the swap of symbols happened in your electronic address? This: "0", changed into this: "1". What exactly is "meaningful"?

It's meaningful if we both agree it is. It's as simple as that.

After that, mathematical symbol "0" was swapped for this symbol: "1". And that means you are "free".

If they later find others who're willing to give their goods & services for a currency that is controlled by no financial institutions, it is called freedom. Monetary authorities are run by people who may abuse their position, against the rest, for their own benefit. They're central points of failure.

Humans do mistakes, whether those happen on purpose or not, and those mistakes have consequences. However, if a financial institution (such as a central bank) does a mistake, its impact is potentially on the entire economy. And it is highly likely that people will, sooner or later, abuse their power.

The fact that no one is able to change a symbol in your address, making it censorship resistant

It is clear that you haven't understood the basics. Censorship resistance comes from the lack of feasibility to reverse a transaction, not to change symbols on addresses.

What is meaningful? Where are the transactions in the bitcoin system?

A transaction is a completed agreement between a buyer and a seller to exchange goods, services, or financial assets in return for money.

Where's good, where's service, money, asset... if is the only thing that's going on is the change of numbers next to addresses?

I really don't get all this your hatred for Bitcoin but what I don't understand is how do you understand Fiat currency and not Bitcoin? So back in the years when there was no paper money and people would do trade by bather and later cowries and eventually paper money, how did all this method got accepted? because the people accepted them. So some ink can be printed on paper and because the government told you that is it's worth you accepted it and if that same value is transmitted digitally for transactions you still accept it even without the physical nature and Bitcoin is difficult for you to understand?

Fiat money grants access to the value created (borrower's goods/services/labour) or present (collateral) in the fiat currency system. Bitcoin grants access to nothing given that value is neither created nor present in the bitcoin system. As a result you can return your investment only via value brought by new investors, just like in all investment scams.

P.S. Bitcoin is a some kind of certificate evidencing that you invested in the bitcoin system. Why would I hate the certificates that you get after investing in something? I don't understand you people. What hatred are you talking about?

[Dunamisx]

You literally are buying a number

why are you just making a repetition on buying of numbers, i think you need to understand what figure is how how it can be transpared into real money, first of all when someone send you money through you bank account you got credited in figures and that same digits is what you're eligible to make withdrawal of in fiat, secondly should incase you still don't get it.

bitcoin is giving as a reward for miners as a result of solving complex mathematical equations through the process of mining, i will advise you read better on bitcoin mining and PoW, no body pays anyone for doing nothing, no regard in bitcoin is giving to miners out of thin air as you may call it, you need to see all the required facilities and infrastructures need to set up a bitcoin mining rigs in other to clear your further doubts.

You are not buying equity, real estate, vechicles, software licences, debt... You just receive a number to your electronic address via Satoshi's messaging system.

you're making a total misconception about bitcoin and i will strongly advise you to read to understand what a digital decentralized currency (bitcoin) is and how you can make use of it to secure a good economic and financial stability amidst the current inflation hitting every aspect of the economy, and lastly, let me remind you that bitcoin can be used to buy any form of physical investment asset when exchanged.

[mr_enoc]

Bitcoin is real and you can invest and earn from it. Try to read in this website and other videos that contains a lot of information about bitcoin. You can also search for some videos about trading in order for you to learn and experience on how to trade and see it Bitcoin doesn't exist at all.

[Snowshow]

Bitcoin is real and you can invest and earn from it. Try to read in this website and other videos that contains a lot of information about bitcoin. You can also search for some videos about trading in order for you to learn and experience on how to trade and see it Bitcoin doesn't exist at all.

Bitcoin is real as a certificate, as an evidence that you invested in the bitcoin system. But bitcoin is not real as an asset, value, resource.  Because, once people invested in it, they are unable to return their investments from the system. Instead, they have to wait for the new investors to bring in something. Only in that way people are able to return their investments. And that's how all investment scams operate. There's nothing inside the system that lured people to invest. The system was just used as a bait to attract the investments. And then, people must wait new investors otherwise they are unable to return their investments. That's how literally all investment scams operate.

[sklopan]

With this approach to bitcoin, you can generally say the same about the entire cryptocurrency and even stocks in general. It seems to me that this opinion is not entirely correct.

[Snowshow]

With this approach to bitcoin, you can generally say the same about the entire cryptocurrency and even stocks in general. It seems to me that this opinion is not entirely correct.

Stock system in general have equity or capital. Capital can either be liquidated or used to produce goods and services and that's how the holders of stock certificates can return the investments in the system without new investors. Crypto is scam in general because it creates a system that issues the certificates to lure people to invest, and then people are able to return the investments only if new investors buy the certificates. Hence, a modern day investment scam.

[Stalker22]

Crypto is scam in general because it creates a system that issues the certificates to lure people to invest, and then people are able to return the investments only if new investors buy the certificates. Hence, a modern day investment scam.

Nah, crypto is about decentralization and individual empowerment. Nothing can be used to mislead people, and none of these fraudulent practices can work here.
In fact, I can only say that crypto is the most promising form of money creation system we have in this era and crypto and blockchain are here to stay.

[Oshosondy]

Fiat money grants access to the value created (borrower's goods/services/labour) or present (collateral) in the fiat currency system. Bitcoin grants access to nothing given that value is neither created nor present in the bitcoin system.

You need to learn and study more about what money is, only what you are referring to is that bitcoin is valueless. If bitcoin is valueless which you are wrong though, then fiat is also valueless.

Both bitcoin and fiat have value but just that the value fiat has is controlled by government which is a means the government devalues fiat and make people that have money in bank to lose. The value of bitcoin is in its demand and adoption as it has limited supply, bitcoin is an asset because the more people are adopting it makes it more valuable unlike fiat.

You meant bitcoin has no use case? I can easily hold bitcoin, wait for more profit, convert some to fiat at anytime. Then what are you talking about. I can also borrow fiat using bitcoin as a collateral.

All what I am saying is for you to know that bitcoin has value and useful to the community and world at large as it has value.

As a result you can return your investment only via value brought by new investors, just like in all investment scams.

Bitcoin is a ponzi? Which is what you are talking about, I have a good article I posted on this forum which you can read to know that you are wrong.

Why bitcoin never a ponzi

Read it very well and see how bitcoin is not and never a ponzi like some critics had blatantly argued about it in the past. Bitcoin is not even centrally controlled and bitcoin is transparent unlike shady business.

Stock system in general have equity or capital. Capital can either be liquidated or used to produce goods and services and that's how the holders of stock certificates can return the investments in the system without new investors. Crypto is scam in general because it creates a system that issues the certificates to lure people to invest, and then people are able to return the investments only if new investors buy the certificates. Hence, a modern day investment scam.

Some altcoins can be risky and become scam, but the focus is bitcoin which is not altcoin. Altcoins are centralized like many other stocks.

Let me tell you one fact, there are many stocks that are more volatile than bitcoin

You are supporting stock, right? Assuming a stock with price of $2 today, if people sell and the price reduce to 1$. If you want to sell after you bought at $2, is that a gain or loss? You need to learn rather than blatantly arguing. Go and learn more about bitcoin, stocks and fiat because you know nothing about it all.