How Satoshi Nakamoto Fooled the World

[amishmanish]

When banking system was created, the bills were attributed some value, something we today call as fiat currency. Its nothing but a piece of paper backed by reserve bank. Still it changed the way we do transactions( Previously it was barter). Then came the online banking, but it lacked the flexibility of true digital currency. That is where satoshi saw opportunity and gave us a system of online currencies, today we call as crypto, which can help us make blockchain based transaction. Which outweighs fiat or online banking.

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[JayJuanGee]

When banking system was created, the bills were attributed some value, something we today call as fiat currency. Its nothing but a piece of paper backed by reserve bank. Still it changed the way we do transactions( Previously it was barter). Then came the online banking, but it lacked the flexibility of true digital currency. That is where satoshi saw opportunity and gave us a system of online currencies, today we call as crypto, which can help us make blockchain based transaction. Which outweighs fiat or online banking.

I agree with what you if you happen to be talking about bitcoin - especially since you mentioned satoshi, but you did not use the term bitcoin, which causes some confusion and ambiguity in regards to your references. 

It seems quite vague and amorphous to proclaim that the invention, innovation or even the progress of bitcoin is called "crypto" or "blockchain" because it is very difficult to know what the fuck you are talking about when you employ those kinds of terms. 

Sure there are a variety of matters that are built along the side of bitcoin, and some might be competing (or they seem to proclaim that they are) or they might be complementing bitcoin, or they might be scamming folks into some kind of made up bullshit to cause them to believe that their project is equal to or better than bitcoin or similar to bitcoin, but it seems vague as fuck, at best, to be throwing out those kinds of terms of crypto and blockchain if you had been wanting to talk about bitcoin in this here thread.

Yeah. a lot of people throw out vague ass terms like crypto and blockchain when they are talking about bitcoin, but that does not mean it is worthy of replicating, even if your intentions are good.... in other words, if you mean bitcoin say bitcoin.. otherwise specify what you be talkin bout willis.

Even Snowshow, as disingenuine as he seems to be most of the time, seems to understand that there is a difference between bitcoin and crypto and between bitcoin and blockchain and at least nominally does not seem to be afraid to use the term bitcoin, and he is not throwing out vague-ass terms like "crypto" and "blockchain" when referring to his assertions of alleged deficiencies in bitcoin. 

Of course, Snowshow seems to be mixed up and confused in a variety of other ways and seems to not know what he is talking about in terms of differentiating bitcoin and various fiat systems or even being able to sufficiently and adequately explain various fiat systems, so I don't necessarily want to proclaim that Snowshow actually knows what bitcoin is either because there is quite a bit of evidence to show that he has "issues" in terms of understanding what bitcoin is, too.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Bitcoins on the other hand are not numbers that represent quantity of debt or other resource that people own.

Something this thread has definitely wasted.

[darkv0rt3x]

Bitcoins on the other hand are not numbers that represent quantity of debt or other resource that people own.

Something this thread has definitely wasted.

Not quite. I'm getting some resources out of this thread. I hope the OP keep going with his insanity for another 30 pages for this week. After that I'm definitly out because there will be nothing left here to learn nor anything else to teach! But until the end of this week, I'll keep this thing going! xD

[tadamichi]

Wrong. If you hold fiat currency, that is, numbers it is the banking system, it is that system that ows you, not a particular bank. So if a particular failed bank sell their assets (loans included) to a different bank, it is that bank that will force the borrowers to repay their loans. And in order for the borrowers to be able to reply their loans they are forced to provide labour, services and products to the number holders. In that way, the debt, that the system owes to those holders (because they invested in debt whose quantity is represented with numbers) is paid.

Lets test these claims in practice.

Recent Bank runs in China:

More infos here:

There’s a run on Chinese banks and it’s being ignored by the world

• Did the system pay the owed money back, when the banks couldnt? No. (Just up to $7,442, but we will never be able to verifiy if it actually happens, we can try to get more infos on friday when the money should be paid)
• Could people withdraw their money, that was worked for a long time? No.
• Do running living costs care, if you cant pay now, because your bank doesnt work? No.
• Life savings lost forever? Yes.
• So if the customers didnt get their money back, what was repaid to them? State violence and silence by the world. https://twitter.com/Byron_Wan/status/1546014495784349696 https://twitter.com/Byron_Wan/status/1546025798145957888

Does this only happen in „third world“ countries?

• First of all, it doesnt.
• Second of all, every human in the world has the right to keep their life savings and money they worked for, no matter where theyre from. A wipeout has consequences that cant be made unhappened later on.

What are your practical suggestion for a person that just lost millions, or 40 years of work, without having done anything wrong?

After your logic, a victim of these things in china, would have been fallen for a scam if they put their money into Bitcoin, even tho they would still have it now. And they wouldnt have been scammed by having their money in fiat, even tho people just lost everything.

[darkv0rt3x]

This guy keeps saying non-sense over and over again and can't figure out he's the one on the wrong side. That's the most unfortunate but he kind of deserves because he has so many proof of what is going on beneath his eyes and he doesn't want to see. It's not even that he can't but, it's that he doesn't want to.

A couple of years ago the same happened to a bank in my country. Or better, what happened was that a bank owner was so corrupt that he end up being caught, the bank went down due to insolvency, he was arrested but most people that had life savings there, got nothing in the end. Mostly emigrants that put their life savings there. The guy is now on trial for years but that won't bring the bank clients their money back.

Another one did similar and ran away to South Africa. Was arrested there and during his trial, he end up hanging himself in jail! Ridiculous. I can't understand how this dumb fucks like the OP, keep saying what they say as if this system was working properly. I mean, it works properly but for the empowered ones (rich people) and politicians.

These are the 2 cases I'm talking about
https://portuguese-american-journal.com/update-ricardo-salgado-banco-espirito-santo-former-ceo-detained-portugal/

and

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2021/12/11/portugal-Fugitive-banker-Joao-Rendeiro-arrested-South-Africa/9541639254772/
https://www.thesouthafrican.com/news/portuguese-banker-joao-rendeiro-dies-in-sa-custody-following-arrest-last-year/

[aylabadia05]

When banking system was created, the bills were attributed some value, something we today call as fiat currency. Its nothing but a piece of paper backed by reserve bank. Still it changed the way we do transactions( Previously it was barter). Then came the online banking, but it lacked the flexibility of true digital currency. That is where satoshi saw opportunity and gave us a system of online currencies, today we call as crypto, which can help us make blockchain based transaction. Which outweighs fiat or online banking.

You are right and I agree with you.
2017 I am familiar with this forum and continue to explore the "difference" between the process of using fiat money and digital currencies otherwise known as crypto. Satoshi's intelligence in giving birth to crypto is extraordinary, especially Bitcoin. He came not to fool the world, but Satoshi conveyed to the world that Bitcoin is the best solution when it comes to future finances. So it is appropriate that the sentence CryptocurrencyBitcoin is freedom, Banking is slavery that Lauda quoted from Arif Naseem.

[Snowshow]

If you hold fiat currency, that is, numbers it is the banking system, it is that system that ows you, not a particular bank. So if a particular failed bank sell their assets (loans included) to a different bank, it is that bank that will force the borrowers to repay their loans. And in order for the borrowers to be able to reply their loans they are forced to provide labour, services and products to the number holders. In that way, the debt, that the system owes to those holders (because they invested in debt whose quantity is represented with numbers) is paid.

Horseshit.  Complete and utter horseshit.  If you can't understand fiat well enough to understand why agencies like the FSCS exist, or why millionaires put their money in property/art/etc, then you clearly aren't in a position to argue any further on this point.  You are too ignorant and misinformed to present any credible arguments against Bitcoin.

There's nothing to understand. Fiat currencies are numbers that are used to represent quantity of debt. End of story. In the OP I mentioned this as a way to demonstrate the difference between numbers that represent a resource and numbers that represent nothing but are just units of a number created in Nakamoto's imagination. I could have as well used numbers in brokerage accounts that represent quantity of shares in companies. Or numbers on invoices that represent the quantity of products or services. Some government agencies have nothing to do with that. This is just your way to shift the discussion away from the point that clearly shows why Nakamoto's invention is a fraudulent investment scheme.

@JayJuanGee Can you please, please stop trolling this topic. Read the OP to see what this topic is about.

No, my shit coins or fiat currencies are numbers that represent the quantity of debt created in the banking system that I own. Which is clearly evidenced in the balance sheets of the banks where the deposits are recorded as banks liabilities. Banknotes are of course redeemable for the deposits. Bitcoin doesn't represent the quantity of debt. Nobody ows you anything when you hold it. So, bitcoin is indeed just a worthless numeric label. That's why you're forced to find new victims to dump that shit on them. There's zero similarly between fiat and bitcoin.

You've been explained this fact countless times, yet you refuse to accept it. Instead, you just repeat usual nonsense about bitcoin doing the same thing as fiat currency.

What you keep failing to understand is that actually Bitcoin represents way better any resource than your shit money. That's a fact and you can't accept it, or at least don't want to accept it. No matter how many times people try to show you by means of 2 + 2, you keep repeating yourself over and over again about what is debt, what it represents, what fiat money do, what it doesn't do, bla bla bla as if you were telling us something we don't know.
You're like almost 20 years late my friend. We know everything you seem to know and we are showing knowledge like 20 years ahead of you.

But as I told you before, keep going with the troll, while I'm getting more and more useless numbers of that scheme Satoshi created while you are getting nothing and even more, you're losing as time passes by! Once more HFST.BTCBTCBTCBTC

Bitcoin represents no resource. That's why you need resources from new investors to exist Nakamoto scheme. Bitcoin is simply an advanced way to record the investors who joined a fraudulent investment scheme. In all such schemes, from the one invented by Charles Ponzi to the one invented by Bernie Madoff, investors were recorded in some way. Satoshi Nakamoto invented an online and numerically based method of recording the investors. There's nothing to discuss here if you look at the facts. Here I am simply refuting your rationalizations for the denial of the facts.

Wrong. If you hold fiat currency, that is, numbers it is the banking system, it is that system that ows you, not a particular bank. So if a particular failed bank sell their assets (loans included) to a different bank, it is that bank that will force the borrowers to repay their loans. And in order for the borrowers to be able to reply their loans they are forced to provide labour, services and products to the number holders. In that way, the debt, that the system owes to those holders (because they invested in debt whose quantity is represented with numbers) is paid.

Lets test these claims in practice.

Recent Bank runs in China:

More infos here:

There’s a run on Chinese banks and it’s being ignored by the world

• Did the system pay the owed money back, when the banks couldnt? No. (Just up to $7,442, but we will never be able to verifiy if it actually happens, we can try to get more infos on friday when the money should be paid)
• Could people withdraw their money, that was worked for a long time? No.
• Do running living costs care, if you cant pay now, because your bank doesnt work? No.
• Life savings lost forever? Yes.
• So if the customers didnt get their money back, what was repaid to them? State violence and silence by the world. https://twitter.com/Byron_Wan/status/1546014495784349696 https://twitter.com/Byron_Wan/status/1546025798145957888

Does this only happen in „third world“ countries?

• First of all, it doesnt.
• Second of all, every human in the world has the right to keep their life savings and money they worked for, no matter where theyre from. A wipeout has consequences that cant be made unhappened later on.

What are your practical suggestion for a person that just lost millions, or 40 years of work, without having done anything wrong?

After your logic, a victim of these things in china, would have been fallen for a scam if they put their money into Bitcoin, even tho they would still have it now. And they wouldnt have been scammed by having their money in fiat, even tho people just lost everything.

So? Point? Fiat currencies are still numbers that represent the quantity of debt. Bitcoin is still number created in Nakamoto's imagination that represent no resource, which is why those that hold bitcoins must wait for new investors to bring the resources in. You, the same as many here, try to shift the discussion away from the fact that Nakamoto scheme is a traditional fraudulent investment scheme in an online form.

When banking system was created, the bills were attributed some value, something we today call as fiat currency. Its nothing but a piece of paper backed by reserve bank. Still it changed the way we do transactions( Previously it was barter). Then came the online banking, but it lacked the flexibility of true digital currency. That is where satoshi saw opportunity and gave us a system of online currencies, today we call as crypto, which can help us make blockchain based transaction. Which outweighs fiat or online banking.

Bills were always just papers with some numbers on them. In the past they represented the quantity of gold. Today they represent the quantity of debt. Satoshi gave no currency, but numbers that represent nothing. Satoshi simply came up with a number (21 million) and created protocols and software for attributing units of that number to online addresses of investors that fell for their fraud. People invest resources in, and then they wait new investors to get the resources back and in that way exist the scheme. That's how all fraudulent investment schemes operate. Satoshi Nakamoto is simply a smart fraudster. And you all are a naive and gullible victims of their fraud. When the scheme collapses then you'll realize the true meaning of my words. Currently you're blinded by greed and thoughts of getting rich because you saw that others made a lot of money from this fraud.

[tryingtolearn]

Here is a video from someone who thinks Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme.  Worth watching even if you disagree with him. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AAUrMuMPlo

[DooMAD]

Fiat currencies are numbers that are used to represent quantity of debt. End of story. 

And yet that representation comes as zero comfort to anyone who has lost their money in a bank collapse.  Representations guarantee nothing in practice.  Lost savings are lost.  End of story.

Here is a video from someone who thinks Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme.  Worth watching even if you disagree with him.  

False.  Providing views and potentially ad revenue for sensationalist nonsense is not something anyone responsible would encourage.  It only prompts the creation of more sub-par drivel.  Give your attention to credible and qualified youtubers instead.

[Snowshow]

And yet that representation comes as zero comfort to anyone who has lost their money in a bank collapse.  Representations guarantee nothing in practice.  Lost savings are lost.  End of story.

Irrelevant. Cars, houses, debt, or whatever resource can be stolen, destroyed, damaged, lost ... But that has nothing to do with this discussion. Here, currently,  we discuss the difference between numbers that represent quantity of resources that people own and numbers that represent participation in Nakamoto's fraudulent investment scheme.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Irrelevant. Cars, houses, debt, or whatever resource can be stolen, destroyed, damaged, lost ... But that has nothing to do with this discussion.

False. Once property is stolen/destroyed/lost, fiat numbers suddenly represent non-existent resources. That's why the rich invest on the property, and not on the liability of that property.

[tryingtolearn]

There is nothing false or sensational in this video.  Here's another take:

https://jacobin.com/2022/01/cryptocurrency-scam-blockchain-bitcoin-economy-decentralization

People are buying into the "coin" of bitcoin when there is no such thing - it is merely a set of digits referring to  an entry in a closed system in cyberspace.  One of the greatest marketing schemes in history that has made some rich and hurt many people.  Using it is a store of value works until people eventually wake up to realize there is nothing there except digits.  

 

[tryingtolearn]

False. Once property is stolen/destroyed/lost, fiat numbers suddenly represent non-existent resources. That's why the rich invest on the property, and not on the liability of that property.

Huh ?

[JayJuanGee]

When banking system was created, the bills were attributed some value, something we today call as fiat currency. Its nothing but a piece of paper backed by reserve bank. Still it changed the way we do transactions( Previously it was barter). Then came the online banking, but it lacked the flexibility of true digital currency. That is where satoshi saw opportunity and gave us a system of online currencies, today we call as crypto, which can help us make blockchain based transaction. Which outweighs fiat or online banking.

You are right and I agree with you.
2017 I am familiar with this forum and continue to explore the "difference" between the process of using fiat money and digital currencies otherwise known as crypto. Satoshi's intelligence in giving birth to crypto is extraordinary, especially Bitcoin. He came not to fool the world, but Satoshi conveyed to the world that Bitcoin is the best solution when it comes to future finances. So it is appropriate that the sentence CryptocurrencyBitcoin is freedom, Banking is slavery that Lauda quoted from Arif Naseem.

You seem to recognize that there is a difference between bitcoin and crypto.. but you are still juxtaposing those terms and even suggesting that bitcoin is just a part of crypto.. which is a kind of shitcoiner (and a confused persons) way of talking about the whole matter including actually knowing what is bitcoin and not being afraid to focus on talking about bitcoin as a force in itself.  

Don't get me wrong. Sometimes I also use the term crypto and/or talk about various cryptocurrencies (aka shitcoins), and even describe some other projects and dynamics in broader "crypto" space, such as NFTs, ICOs, Defi and perhaps some other projects that may or may not have some connection with bitcoin.

Yes.. it is a kind of pet peeve of mine, but there seems to be way too much lack of clarity in the way the terms crypto and cryptocurrency is being discussed, and it seems to me that if we are mostly talking about bitcoin, then there is likely no need to even mention crypto or cryptocurrencies, but sometimes if we are talking about various dynamics beyond bitcoin then there might be some kind of need to bring it up.. so accordingly, if we are talking about what satoshi did, to me, it seem way more appropriate and adequate to proclaim that satoshi was building bitcoin, not "crypto".. yeah.. satoshi did mention some other crypto currencies in his various forum interactions, but it seems quite in accurate to be suggesting that satoshi brought "crypto" to the world - even if satoshi himself recognized that the dynamic of just creating bitcoin was quite likely to spark a variety of imitation projects, forks and even snake oil salesmen and snake oil products.

So I suppose part of my own ongoing desires to combat the loose framings of bitcoin as it relates to various other aspects of the space has to do with how various shitcoins, scams and even shady folks are using that kind of vague language to confuse people in regards to what is bitcoin and what are bitcoin projects as compared to some of their projects that may or may not be as closely related to bitcoin as they are making them out to be.

@JayJuanGee Can you please, please stop trolling this topic. Read the OP to see what this topic is about.

I already addressed this point.  I see little to no purpose for you to raise the point again, unless if you might wrongly conclude that if you keep raising the point, your incorrect assertions contained therein might fantastically in your dreamlandia become true.

By the way:  Fuck off with giving me assignments, you dweeb.

Another point that might be worthy to raise is that your practice of ongoingly changing the title of this thread further buttresses why no one (neither this cat nor anyone else) has any obligation whatsoever to go back and read your ever-shifting bullshit (whether in the OP or any other posts that you made)...

Sure, if you had been trying to genuinely work with ideas around this particular topic and you had shown that you were truly trying to learn along the way and to make fair changes that were in line with some semblance of the original topic.. or even if you had been keeping the original title and then just adding new titles and showing each version of the title in the OP, then those could have been potentially fair and reasonable ways that you could have been fucking around with the thread title and the substance of the OP.

You have not even come close to showing yourself as any kind of genuine player who deserves any deference when it comes to matters related to this thread.. and to reiterate, I have already stated in my earlier responses to your earlier beseechenings in this direction.. which likely establishes that I have been way more on-topic and even providing something that was more lacking in gobble-dee-gook than uie-pooie.

And yet that representation comes as zero comfort to anyone who has lost their money in a bank collapse.  Representations guarantee nothing in practice.  Lost savings are lost.  End of story.

Irrelevant. Cars, houses, debt, or whatever resource can be stolen, destroyed, damaged, lost ... But that has nothing to do with this discussion. Here, currently,  we discuss the difference between numbers that represent quantity of resources that people own and numbers that represent participation in Nakamoto's fraudulent investment scheme.

WWWWWWRRRRRRRROOOOOONNNNNGGGGG

As soon as you open up some kind of criticism from your perspective (as lame as that might be) regarding how bitcoin has no value (or any variation of that), then all kinds of assessments of value and price become relevant in the discussion, even if you are proclaiming that they are not relevant.

[darkv0rt3x]

If you hold fiat currency, that is, numbers it is the banking system, it is that system that ows you, not a particular bank. So if a particular failed bank sell their assets (loans included) to a different bank, it is that bank that will force the borrowers to repay their loans. And in order for the borrowers to be able to reply their loans they are forced to provide labour, services and products to the number holders. In that way, the debt, that the system owes to those holders (because they invested in debt whose quantity is represented with numbers) is paid.

Horseshit.  Complete and utter horseshit.  If you can't understand fiat well enough to understand why agencies like the FSCS exist, or why millionaires put their money in property/art/etc, then you clearly aren't in a position to argue any further on this point.  You are too ignorant and misinformed to present any credible arguments against Bitcoin.

There's nothing to understand. Fiat currencies are numbers that are used to represent quantity of debt. End of story. In the OP I mentioned this as a way to demonstrate the difference between numbers that represent a resource and numbers that represent nothing but are just units of a number created in Nakamoto's imagination. I could have as well used numbers in brokerage accounts that represent quantity of shares in companies. Or numbers on invoices that represent the quantity of products or services. Some government agencies have nothing to do with that. This is just your way to shift the discussion away from the point that clearly shows why Nakamoto's invention is a fraudulent investment scheme.

@JayJuanGee Can you please, please stop trolling this topic. Read the OP to see what this topic is about.

No, my shit coins or fiat currencies are numbers that represent the quantity of debt created in the banking system that I own. Which is clearly evidenced in the balance sheets of the banks where the deposits are recorded as banks liabilities. Banknotes are of course redeemable for the deposits. Bitcoin doesn't represent the quantity of debt. Nobody ows you anything when you hold it. So, bitcoin is indeed just a worthless numeric label. That's why you're forced to find new victims to dump that shit on them. There's zero similarly between fiat and bitcoin.

You've been explained this fact countless times, yet you refuse to accept it. Instead, you just repeat usual nonsense about bitcoin doing the same thing as fiat currency.

What you keep failing to understand is that actually Bitcoin represents way better any resource than your shit money. That's a fact and you can't accept it, or at least don't want to accept it. No matter how many times people try to show you by means of 2 + 2, you keep repeating yourself over and over again about what is debt, what it represents, what fiat money do, what it doesn't do, bla bla bla as if you were telling us something we don't know.
You're like almost 20 years late my friend. We know everything you seem to know and we are showing knowledge like 20 years ahead of you.

But as I told you before, keep going with the troll, while I'm getting more and more useless numbers of that scheme Satoshi created while you are getting nothing and even more, you're losing as time passes by! Once more HFST.BTCBTCBTCBTC

Bitcoin represents no resource. That's why you need resources from new investors to exist Nakamoto scheme. Bitcoin is simply an advanced way to record the investors who joined a fraudulent investment scheme. In all such schemes, from the one invented by Charles Ponzi to the one invented by Bernie Madoff, investors were recorded in some way. Satoshi Nakamoto invented an online and numerically based method of recording the investors. There's nothing to discuss here if you look at the facts. Here I am simply refuting your rationalizations for the denial of the facts.

Wrong. If you hold fiat currency, that is, numbers it is the banking system, it is that system that ows you, not a particular bank. So if a particular failed bank sell their assets (loans included) to a different bank, it is that bank that will force the borrowers to repay their loans. And in order for the borrowers to be able to reply their loans they are forced to provide labour, services and products to the number holders. In that way, the debt, that the system owes to those holders (because they invested in debt whose quantity is represented with numbers) is paid.

Lets test these claims in practice.

Recent Bank runs in China:

More infos here:

There’s a run on Chinese banks and it’s being ignored by the world

• Did the system pay the owed money back, when the banks couldnt? No. (Just up to $7,442, but we will never be able to verifiy if it actually happens, we can try to get more infos on friday when the money should be paid)
• Could people withdraw their money, that was worked for a long time? No.
• Do running living costs care, if you cant pay now, because your bank doesnt work? No.
• Life savings lost forever? Yes.
• So if the customers didnt get their money back, what was repaid to them? State violence and silence by the world. https://twitter.com/Byron_Wan/status/1546014495784349696 https://twitter.com/Byron_Wan/status/1546025798145957888

Does this only happen in „third world“ countries?

• First of all, it doesnt.
• Second of all, every human in the world has the right to keep their life savings and money they worked for, no matter where theyre from. A wipeout has consequences that cant be made unhappened later on.

What are your practical suggestion for a person that just lost millions, or 40 years of work, without having done anything wrong?

After your logic, a victim of these things in china, would have been fallen for a scam if they put their money into Bitcoin, even tho they would still have it now. And they wouldnt have been scammed by having their money in fiat, even tho people just lost everything.

So? Point? Fiat currencies are still numbers that represent the quantity of debt. Bitcoin is still number created in Nakamoto's imagination that represent no resource, which is why those that hold bitcoins must wait for new investors to bring the resources in. You, the same as many here, try to shift the discussion away from the fact that Nakamoto scheme is a traditional fraudulent investment scheme in an online form.

When banking system was created, the bills were attributed some value, something we today call as fiat currency. Its nothing but a piece of paper backed by reserve bank. Still it changed the way we do transactions( Previously it was barter). Then came the online banking, but it lacked the flexibility of true digital currency. That is where satoshi saw opportunity and gave us a system of online currencies, today we call as crypto, which can help us make blockchain based transaction. Which outweighs fiat or online banking.

Bills were always just papers with some numbers on them. In the past they represented the quantity of gold. Today they represent the quantity of debt. Satoshi gave no currency, but numbers that represent nothing. Satoshi simply came up with a number (21 million) and created protocols and software for attributing units of that number to online addresses of investors that fell for their fraud. People invest resources in, and then they wait new investors to get the resources back and in that way exist the scheme. That's how all fraudulent investment schemes operate. Satoshi Nakamoto is simply a smart fraudster. And you all are a naive and gullible victims of their fraud. When the scheme collapses then you'll realize the true meaning of my words. Currently you're blinded by greed and thoughts of getting rich because you saw that others made a lot of money from this fraud.

@shitshow, excuse me @snowshow, you are the one who started this troll. Your ignorante stand is the ridiculous one here. I tell you once more that your shiat coin represents shit. Debt is no resource as it has no value. You only say that because that's what you have been told by keynsian dumb fucks or read somewhere in the internet and you just swallowed it like a lamb. You have no own critical reasoning. You just soak up the first crap you're given. So, don't keep repeating the same old shit keysian dum asses told you. Because that's what you've been doing for the last 30 or 40 pages. Is that your shiat coin represents a quantity of debt. Debt created by banks... As these 2 statements could ever give any value/resource to debt. No, there is no value in debt.There is only keynsian imagination in debt. There is only your imagination in debt and in your shiat coin.
And what banks balance seets tells you means nothing because they can put there whatever they want, true or false, that you'll kust swallow it like the lamb you are.

On the other end, Bitcoin has value basaed on technology, criptography, math, computer science and through all properties of a hard/sound money. But you, as a lam you are, can only soak in the crap you were given and you can't even judge that same crap and add 2 to 2 and see that something is not adding up.

And more, you are refuting nothing. Your claims are just more of keynesian crap. Those lords you menitoned all made their fortunes with you shiat coin while others lost evertything to those fucks. Give an example, just one, since 2009 of the same happening in the Bitcoin network, due to the system itself. And don't bring mtgox or any other custodial services or any other shit like that, because that has nothing to do with the Bitcoin network it self. JUST SAYING!

[tryingtolearn]

No, there is no value in debt.There is only keynsian imagination in debt. There is only your imagination in debt and in your shiat coin.
And what banks balance seets tells you means nothing because they can put there whatever they want, true or false, that you'll kust swallow it like the lamb you are.

On the other end, Bitcoin has value basaed on technology, criptography, math, computer science and through all properties of a hard/sound money. But you, as a lam you are, can only soak in the crap you were given and you can't even judge that same crap and add 2 to 2 and see that something is not adding up.

Don't join the debating club. 

- Regarding value in debt:  I hold a mortgage on someone's property.  They pay me interest on the loan as well as pay back principal.  Their debt is my asset.

- There is no hard or sound money aspect to bitcoin.  It is digits on a computer not backed by anything except pure faith and a hatred for the status quo financial system. 

If anyone is guilty of soaking up crap - it is people who are belligerent to the facts.  That is basis for a good con. 

[tadamichi]

- Regarding value in debt:  I hold a mortgage on someone's property.  They pay me interest on the loan as well as pay back principal.  Their debt is my asset.

Debt can be handled in Bitcoin too, theres no point here. The question is not wether or not debt is an asset. We are talking about forms of money. The claim is that debt is what gives fiat its value. But at the same time we know that debt based money creation has the consequence of debasing ones currency, which makes it less valuable over time, the more this process is being repeated. Which is already a contradiction in itself.

- There is no hard or sound money aspect to bitcoin. 

I will ask some questions now, to see if you even have the capacity to understand this topic, sadly its necessary because the amount of trolls is huge. What would the criteria for a hard and sound money be? And why cant Bitcoin fulfill it?

It is digits on a computer

Can software have value and impact on the world? Theyre all just digits if we go down to machine code.

not backed by anything

If software can have value, what value would a system have, that has made a breaktrough in computer science by making it possible to store information in an unforgeable, uncensorable, open to anyone way without needing a central entity, and uses this foundation to issue money?

except pure faith

The oldest reference from the whitepaper is from 1957, but we can also choose the second oldest one, as its more related to cryptography. So we have atleast 28 years of prior research that lead to this moment. We have more than 15.000 nodes running the software all over the world, building a network and enforcing rules. Millions of lines of code, some of the best maintained production software there is, over 800 contributors that are really good in their fields. Interdisciplinary knowledge that shaped its architecture. An active community that is engaged in many things and wants to see humanity progressing. Is it all just pure faith or actual work?

and a hatred for the status quo financial system. 

If the status quo financial system is good, why didnt Bitcoin stay at 0 market value? As it shouldnt even be able to compete against a superior system that is so beneficial, yet it is competing.

to the facts. 

Name them.

[JayJuanGee]

Don't join the debating club. 

Snowshow.  Do you consider it a good idea to create another account and then argue your same bullshit points, in order to attempt to make it appear that there are other people in the world who believe the same nonsense that you are getting paid to repeat.. parrot your dumb points.  You might get into trouble for that no?  In the way that you are doing it, it is a kind of deception, right?

[hZti]

Bills were always just papers with some numbers on them. In the past they represented the quantity of gold. Today they represent the quantity of debt.

As you said in the past they represent a specific amount of gold. This is not the case anymore. Today you tell that it does represent a quantity of debt. Can you cocaine weakend brain calculate for us how much debt a 50 USD bill contains or is this "money represents a quantity of debt" thing just something you are going to tell until people are to tired to question the bullshit you post here every day?