How Satoshi Nakamoto Fooled the World

[BlackHatCoiner]

It's like if you would give me $100 and in return I would give you a paper sticker saying "Thanks".

Analogies isn't your strong point.

A "Thanks" sticker can't be sent across communication channels nearly instantly, in a censorship-resistant fashion. I can't send it across the world for a cent. It isn't resistant to confiscation. It can't be possessed in a divided manner. It doesn't grant me the access to an independent and transparent network, wherein users can verify that it has changed hands, without knowing who's the new owner. Sticker users can't verify who mints them, how many they are, how hard it is to create new ones, which part of the supply they own, because there's no transparency. Owning stickers doesn't give you the option to store messages on an immutable ledger.

With bitcoin, you do gain these benefits. That's why we're all willing to trade monetary value for it. You can whine about it, make videos, call it ponzi, lie about non-existent resources, bring friends to this thread, but you won't get to enjoy these benefits otherwise. We do.

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[Snowshow]

It's like if you would give me $100 and in return I would give you a paper sticker saying "Thanks".

Analogies isn't your strong point.

A "Thanks" sticker can't be sent across communication channels nearly instantly, in a censorship-resistant fashion. I can't send it across the world for a cent. It isn't resistant to confiscation. It can't be possessed in a divided manner. It doesn't grant me the access to an independent and transparent network, wherein users can verify that it has changed hands, without knowing who's the new owner. Sticker users can't verify who mints them, how many they are, how hard it is to create new ones, which part of the supply they own, because there's no transparency. Owning stickers doesn't give you the option to store messages on an immutable ledger.

With bitcoin, you do gain these benefits. That's why we're all willing to trade monetary value for it. You can whine about it, make videos, call it ponzi, lie about non-existent resources, bring friends to this thread, but you won't get to enjoy these benefits otherwise. We do.

That's how bitcoins, that is, ponzi tokens, are sold to naive and gullible people. You introduce a system which efficiently transfers, stores and protects the record about the amount of ponzi tokens, and then you advertise that this is benefit or utility of the tokens. So, it's not my analogy what is the problem. But your naivety and gullibility.

[tadamichi]

The author is right.

He is making money from selling fiat infrastructure, probably shitting his pants of how much traction Bitcoin its getting and how many transactions lightning/ side chains can handle, as it will make his centralized, garbage irrelevant. With Open Source you only have to solve a problem once. When you asked a horse salesman what he thinks about cars, when they just gained traction, similar actions probably occurred. There is always some shitty salesman that wants to prevent innovations, because they are „dangerous“ and „harmful“(but just to his business).

Sending email provides utility because email has info about some aspect of reality that is of interest to the receiver.

There’s nothing that makes sure that it is something of interest, most emails are useless spam or uninteresting.

On the other hand, bitcoin that one receives provides no utility. It's just a token of investment in a Ponzi scheme. It's like if you would give me $100 and in return I would give you a paper sticker saying "Thanks".

Keep ignoring reality. It has purchasing power that you can send over the internet, in a way that no shitty centralized fiat infrastructure can, and its saved into something that has the best monetary properties invented so far.

Bitcoin is like a "Thanks" sticker in a digital form. It provides zero utility but people see value in it and that's why they purchase it.

It’s not, it has more utility than fiat payments as there is no middle man, so you have payments without a counterparty risk. It’s literally impossible to get scammed like this, while your beloved author has the power to scam people, and everything relies on trust. For this reason alone it’s priceless.

There’s people like emigrants that want to send their families and friends money at home, but most of it is eaten by banks, governments or smugglers. They exploit the poorest of the poorest, something your author isn’t mentioning. With Bitcoin you can send money trough any border, smuggler or whatever corrupt barrier there is, that is preventing your money from reaching where it should go. Something that can change the world, when poor people can potentially fully receive their money in an unconfiscatable way in the future. The technology is here, now it’s just a matter of adoption. El Salvador is starting with it, it’s a legal tender so you can use it to purchase any resource you want, guaranteed.

And it’s not like only them could use something like this, any person benefits from not having a counterparty risk, because our counterparties(financial institutions) are completely reckless in their actions and completely devalue our money and negatively impact freedom to transact. Bitcoin is the definition of utility and the purest money there is. It will just disappoint you, if you want to use ur money as toilet paper, as it won’t waste time on being things that don’t matter.

[Snowshow]

The author is right.

He is making money from selling fiat infrastructure, probably shitting his pants of how much traction Bitcoin its getting and how many transactions lightning/ side chains can handle, as it will make his centralized, garbage irrelevant. With Open Source you only have to solve a problem once. When you asked a horse salesman what he thinks about cars, when they just gained traction, similar actions probably occurred. There is always some shitty salesman that wants to prevent innovations, because they are „dangerous“ and „harmful“(but just to his business).

Sending email provides utility because email has info about some aspect of reality that is of interest to the receiver.

There’s nothing that makes sure that it is something of interest, most emails are useless spam or uninteresting.

On the other hand, bitcoin that one receives provides no utility. It's just a token of investment in a Ponzi scheme. It's like if you would give me $100 and in return I would give you a paper sticker saying "Thanks".

Keep ignoring reality. It has purchasing power that you can send over the internet, in a way that no shitty centralized fiat infrastructure can, and its saved into something that has the best monetary properties invented so far.

Bitcoin is like a "Thanks" sticker in a digital form. It provides zero utility but people see value in it and that's why they purchase it.

It’s not, it has more utility than fiat payments as there is no middle man, so you have payments without a counterparty risk. It’s literally impossible to get scammed like this, while your beloved author has the power to scam people, and everything relies on trust. For this reason alone it’s priceless.

There’s people like emigrants that want to send their families and friends money at home, but most of it is eaten by banks, governments or smugglers. They exploit the poorest of the poorest, something your author isn’t mentioning. With Bitcoin you can send money trough any border, smuggler or whatever corrupt barrier there is, that is preventing your money from reaching where it should go. Something that can change the world, when poor people can potentially fully receive their money in an unconfiscatable way in the future. The technology is here, now it’s just a matter of adoption. El Salvador is starting with it, it’s a legal tender so you can use it to purchase any resource you want, guaranteed.

And it’s not like only them could use something like this, any person benefits from not having a counterparty risk, because our counterparties(financial institutions) are completely reckless in their actions and completely devalue our money and negatively impact freedom to transact. Bitcoin is the definition of utility and the purest money there is. It will just disappoint you, if you want to use ur money as toilet paper, as it won’t waste time on being things that don’t matter.

Are you some kind of advertising bot for luring people into Nakamoto's Ponzi? You're just keep repeating the lie that bitcoin is money.  You're keep repeating that bitcoin has utility although you know that without new investors bringing utility from the outside bitcoin holders have nothing. I mean, the thing that you are doing is obvious false advertising. And the promotion of an online fraud, spreading disinformation.

[tadamichi]

Are you some kind of advertising bot for luring people into Nakamoto's Ponzi?

Are you out of arguments? Poor you.

You're just keep repeating the lie that bitcoin is money.

Because i use the criteria that is used to evaluate money and not some OLTP Systems salesman hurt feelings.

You're keep repeating that bitcoin has utility although you know that without new investors bringing utility from the outside bitcoin holders have nothing.

Bitcoin does the job it’s supposed to do, no matter if a fiat market exists or not. I can transact either way, while your fiat payment method will always need counterparties and trust to work, which opens the doors to fraud and exploitation, without a guarantee to prevent this.

I mean, the thing that you are doing is obvious false advertising. And the promotion of an online fraud, spreading disinformation.

In your dreams maybe. Anyone can verify this information themselves from top to bottom. While it’s not even possible to audit the code of fiat payment systems. They can do false advertising without you ever being able to notice it.

[DooMAD]

You introduce a system which efficiently transfers, stores and protects the record about the amount of ponzi tokens, and then you advertise that this is benefit or utility of the tokens.

And you advocate a system that inefficiently transfers IOUs, doesn't store or protect anything if the bank in question fails and may not be available on Bank Holidays for some transaction types. 

The simple fact is, the utility Bitcoin provides is real.  It performs functions fiat cannot perform.  It provides guarantees which fiat is unable to provide.

[Doan9269]

You introduce a system which efficiently transfers, stores and protects the record about the amount of ponzi tokens, and then you advertise that this is benefit or utility of the tokens.

And you advocate a system that inefficiently transfers IOUs, doesn't store or protect anything if the bank in question fails and may not be available on Bank Holidays for some transaction types. 

The simple fact is, the utility Bitcoin provides is real.  It performs functions fiat cannot perform.  It provides guarantees which fiat is unable to provide.

Or maybe he thinks possibly that bitcoin mining itself is a joke or a mere child's play like drinking a coffee inbthe cold of the day just to shed away shivers, maybe he never knows about what PoW is in bitcoin or needed to understand the whole concept behind bitcoin and its use and applications, if not an ordinary person shouldn't be arguing this far with baseless talks all around, @Snowshow why aren't you keen to learning? Yet you keep insisting on wrong ideas that does not exit, don't you want to grow?.

[JayJuanGee]

It's like if you would give me $100 and in return I would give you a paper sticker saying "Thanks".

Analogies isn't your strong point.

A "Thanks" sticker can't be sent across communication channels nearly instantly, in a censorship-resistant fashion. I can't send it across the world for a cent. It isn't resistant to confiscation. It can't be possessed in a divided manner. It doesn't grant me the access to an independent and transparent network, wherein users can verify that it has changed hands, without knowing who's the new owner. Sticker users can't verify who mints them, how many they are, how hard it is to create new ones, which part of the supply they own, because there's no transparency. Owning stickers doesn't give you the option to store messages on an immutable ledger.

With bitcoin, you do gain these benefits. That's why we're all willing to trade monetary value for it. You can whine about it, make videos, call it ponzi, lie about non-existent resources, bring friends to this thread, but you won't get to enjoy these benefits otherwise. We do.

I agree with all of your points BlackHatCoiner, including that those who participate directly in bitcoin will receive more benefits than those who do not; however, I do believe that even no coiner twats like Snowshow will benefit from bitcoin and in terms of there existing a more fair money that causes unfair systems to try to be more fair if they want to survive.

Of course, no coiner Snowshow is not going to recognize or appreciate that he is getting indirect benefits from the existence of bitcoin, even though he is personally refusing (or believes that he is refusing) to directly and/or consciously participate in using my lil precious.

[OgNasty]

This thread title reminds me of a clip from the show Seinfeld...  They fooled ME Jerry...  or was it, They FOOLED me Jerry?  In any event, whatever fooling satoshi did, I'm glad I was a victim of it.  You can say what you want about how Bitcoin has progressed since it's inception or satoshi's departure, but you can't deny that the public blockchain and mining incentive/security innovation was a great step forward and truly a needed creation.  That genius has carried Bitcoin to where it is today, much more than any software development or advertising campaign.  Great ideas are hard to bottle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpVOhPps6x4

[tryingtolearn]

The whole "digital asset" meme is a sand castle built on the shore or a rising ocean.  With bitcoin - there is no company, there are no employees, there is no product, no revenues and no profits.  The value they say is "the network itself that is growing exponentially".  Digits on a computer masquerading as digital assets for a group of people looking to get rich quick or motivated by a strong distrust of the fiat money system.  Many of who have only been alive in a falling interest rate environment.  If rates go above 3.5% - look out below - for everything.

There are profits to be made pushing the bitcoin narrative - and an entire industry has grown up around it.  They love you and want more of your money.  Don't listen to the naysayers - they don't understand cyberstuff, you are a genius, and there is no stopping the B-Train.  Only one problem: look closely and the network itself has to be accessed through a series of gates (physical & political) that that are outside the control of the network.  Sand castle on the shore. 

Michael Burry understands:  https://youtu.be/H7PHNGtgDwg 

"Money for nothing and chicks for free"
"If it sounds too good to be true - it usually is"
"Don't say no one ever warned you"

[darkv0rt3x]

It's like if you would give me $100 and in return I would give you a paper sticker saying "Thanks".

Analogies isn't your strong point.

A "Thanks" sticker can't be sent across communication channels nearly instantly, in a censorship-resistant fashion. I can't send it across the world for a cent. It isn't resistant to confiscation. It can't be possessed in a divided manner. It doesn't grant me the access to an independent and transparent network, wherein users can verify that it has changed hands, without knowing who's the new owner. Sticker users can't verify who mints them, how many they are, how hard it is to create new ones, which part of the supply they own, because there's no transparency. Owning stickers doesn't give you the option to store messages on an immutable ledger.

With bitcoin, you do gain these benefits. That's why we're all willing to trade monetary value for it. You can whine about it, make videos, call it ponzi, lie about non-existent resources, bring friends to this thread, but you won't get to enjoy these benefits otherwise. We do.

He may even understand that despite the fact that he doesn't recognise it. The point he's missing since ever, is that if we both agree that that paper with the word "Thanks" has some kind of value, then, the transfer of Bitcoin for that paper, is doing exactly the same as what he has been repeating over and over again about shiat money and resources and debt and shit!
But he is too ignorant to amit it, so he keeps repeating the same shit over and over about imaginary numbers and ponzi schemes and etc, when all these phenomena actually happens in hhis shiat mony system.

The author is right.

He is making money from selling fiat infrastructure, probably shitting his pants of how much traction Bitcoin its getting and how many transactions lightning/ side chains can handle, as it will make his centralized, garbage irrelevant. With Open Source you only have to solve a problem once. When you asked a horse salesman what he thinks about cars, when they just gained traction, similar actions probably occurred. There is always some shitty salesman that wants to prevent innovations, because they are „dangerous“ and „harmful“(but just to his business).

Sending email provides utility because email has info about some aspect of reality that is of interest to the receiver.

There’s nothing that makes sure that it is something of interest, most emails are useless spam or uninteresting.

On the other hand, bitcoin that one receives provides no utility. It's just a token of investment in a Ponzi scheme. It's like if you would give me $100 and in return I would give you a paper sticker saying "Thanks".

Keep ignoring reality. It has purchasing power that you can send over the internet, in a way that no shitty centralized fiat infrastructure can, and its saved into something that has the best monetary properties invented so far.

Bitcoin is like a "Thanks" sticker in a digital form. It provides zero utility but people see value in it and that's why they purchase it.

It’s not, it has more utility than fiat payments as there is no middle man, so you have payments without a counterparty risk. It’s literally impossible to get scammed like this, while your beloved author has the power to scam people, and everything relies on trust. For this reason alone it’s priceless.

There’s people like emigrants that want to send their families and friends money at home, but most of it is eaten by banks, governments or smugglers. They exploit the poorest of the poorest, something your author isn’t mentioning. With Bitcoin you can send money trough any border, smuggler or whatever corrupt barrier there is, that is preventing your money from reaching where it should go. Something that can change the world, when poor people can potentially fully receive their money in an unconfiscatable way in the future. The technology is here, now it’s just a matter of adoption. El Salvador is starting with it, it’s a legal tender so you can use it to purchase any resource you want, guaranteed.

And it’s not like only them could use something like this, any person benefits from not having a counterparty risk, because our counterparties(financial institutions) are completely reckless in their actions and completely devalue our money and negatively impact freedom to transact. Bitcoin is the definition of utility and the purest money there is. It will just disappoint you, if you want to use ur money as toilet paper, as it won’t waste time on being things that don’t matter.

Are you some kind of advertising bot for luring people into Nakamoto's Ponzi? You're just keep repeating the lie that bitcoin is money.  You're keep repeating that bitcoin has utility although you know that without new investors bringing utility from the outside bitcoin holders have nothing. I mean, the thing that you are doing is obvious false advertising. And the promotion of an online fraud, spreading disinformation.

Funny that you say that. It's that you seem exactly that bot, because you repeat yourself countless times, just like a clock in the kitchen wall. You seem a silly robot with a loop, repeating the same crap over and over again and you seem alo to have some inteligence deficit.

[tadamichi]

The whole "digital asset" meme is a sand castle built on the shore or a rising ocean.  With bitcoin - there is no company, there are no employees, there is no product, no revenues and no profits. 

It’s open source, the amount of talent that worked on this and the research that was being done, is worth more than any shitty centralized company could afford/ be able to pull off. It was the most successful asset of the last decade, this doesn’t happen accidentally or from pure hypes, it’s work. - Nice try to talk down on something that is open source, and try to criticise it because it’s not in private hands. Logic.

There is a community, there are contributors in various forms, there is a software and a network that’s holds more value than some countries, people are profiting, businesses that build on Bitcoin are generating revenues.

If rates go above 3.5% - look out below - for everything.

Then some countries will go bankrupt, but sure let’s believe in this fairytale. And let’s believe that Bitcoin can’t survive in an 3.5% interest environment, when inflation is over 10%. Every investor in the world will run into bonds to have some guaranteed losses. The most sound money in the world couldn’t survive this, while being the actual fix to this economic mess. Bring the interest rates on, it will only make it more obvious to people why Bitcoin is needed.

"If it sounds too good to be true - it usually is"

So stop listening/ reading now and just verify it.

[darkv0rt3x]

The whole "digital asset" meme is a sand castle built on the shore or a rising ocean.  With bitcoin - there is no company, there are no employees, there is no product, no revenues and no profits.  The value they say is "the network itself that is growing exponentially".  Digits on a computer masquerading as digital assets for a group of people looking to get rich quick or motivated by a strong distrust of the fiat money system.  Many of who have only been alive in a falling interest rate environment.  If rates go above 3.5% - look out below - for everything.

There are profits to be made pushing the bitcoin narrative - and an entire industry has grown up around it.  They love you and want more of your money.  Don't listen to the naysayers - they don't understand cyberstuff, you are a genius, and there is no stopping the B-Train.  Only one problem: look closely and the network itself has to be accessed through a series of gates (physical & political) that that are outside the control of the network.  Sand castle on the shore. 

Michael Burry understands:  https://youtu.be/H7PHNGtgDwg 

"Money for nothing and chicks for free"
"If it sounds too good to be true - it usually is"
"Don't say no one ever warned you"

Bitcoin is not "cryptocurrency". You're confusing things and messing all up just like @Shitshow!.

You should listen things like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwWVKqpxZtI

See what he says about fiat money... And think again and try again!

[tadamichi]

Bitcoin is not "cryptocurrency". You're confusing things and messing all up just like @Shitshow!.

You should listen things like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwWVKqpxZtI

See what he says about fiat money... And think again and try again!

22 years later and this speech could still be held today, word by word. Its probably the latest speech of a politician on this topic, even tho its so old, that says a lot. I cant even remember any other politician trying to address these issues ever and were seeing the results of it. Not one single issue he addressed was solved in the last 22 years and we will have to pay the price for it, as they just have been delayed till now.

[tryingtolearn]

Bitcoin is not "cryptocurrency". You're confusing things and messing all up just like @Shitshow!.

You should listen things like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwWVKqpxZtI

See what he says about fiat money... And think again and try again!

Please learn to read what is written.  

I voted for Ron Paul and have been a member of RonPaulForums.com since it's inception.  I understand the fiat money issue.  Time is a good teacher.

[tadamichi]

Only one problem: look closely and the network itself has to be accessed through a series of gates (physical & political) that that are outside the control of the network.

I missed this part, what exactly do you mean? Bitcoin can be accessed without gates, it allows you to become completely self sovereign when you run your own node and hold your own keys. You ideally acquire Bitcoin in a P2P way on decentralized exchanges/ in person for various reasons.

[Snowshow]

Are you some kind of advertising bot for luring people into Nakamoto's Ponzi?

Are you out of arguments? Poor you.

You're just keep repeating the lie that bitcoin is money.

Because i use the criteria that is used to evaluate money and not some OLTP Systems salesman hurt feelings.

You're keep repeating that bitcoin has utility although you know that without new investors bringing utility from the outside bitcoin holders have nothing.

Bitcoin does the job it’s supposed to do, no matter if a fiat market exists or not. I can transact either way, while your fiat payment method will always need counterparties and trust to work, which opens the doors to fraud and exploitation, without a guarantee to prevent this.

I mean, the thing that you are doing is obvious false advertising. And the promotion of an online fraud, spreading disinformation.

In your dreams maybe. Anyone can verify this information themselves from top to bottom. While it’s not even possible to audit the code of fiat payment systems. They can do false advertising without you ever being able to notice it.

I mean really. You act like an advertising bot. Participants in this thread also. Just take a look at this statement of yours: "Bitcoin does the job it’s supposed to do." What job? If you give me a car and I give you back 5 paper stickers with the word "Thanks", and this gets written in some database as "5 THX", what job would that stickers and data about them do? What that has to do with the concepts of economy, payment or transactions? Nothing. These concepts mean the production and the exchange of resources. They don't mean saying thanks via stickers when you receive a resource for free. In Nakamoto case you don't even get stickers when you give your resources for free to someone. You get only a number saying that you have a specific amount of digital tokens that you even cannot show. So what job are you talking about? There's no job. All there is are the participants in Nakamoto's Ponzi scheme, like you, repeating false advertising and propaganda for luring more people in so you could get out with more than you invested in this Ponzi.

[arcmetal]

Are you some kind of advertising bot for luring people into Nakamoto's Ponzi?

Are you out of arguments? Poor you.

You're just keep repeating the lie that bitcoin is money.

Because i use the criteria that is used to evaluate money and not some OLTP Systems salesman hurt feelings.

You're keep repeating that bitcoin has utility although you know that without new investors bringing utility from the outside bitcoin holders have nothing.

Bitcoin does the job it’s supposed to do, no matter if a fiat market exists or not. I can transact either way, while your fiat payment method will always need counterparties and trust to work, which opens the doors to fraud and exploitation, without a guarantee to prevent this.

I mean, the thing that you are doing is obvious false advertising. And the promotion of an online fraud, spreading disinformation.

In your dreams maybe. Anyone can verify this information themselves from top to bottom. While it’s not even possible to audit the code of fiat payment systems. They can do false advertising without you ever being able to notice it.

I mean really. You act like an advertising bot. Participants in this thread also. Just take a look at this statement of yours: "Bitcoin does the job it’s supposed to do." What job? If you give me a car and I give you back 5 paper stickers with the word "Thanks", and this gets written in some database as "5 THX", what job would that stickers and data about them do? What that has to do with the concepts of economy, payment or transactions? Nothing. These concepts mean ...

Wo, the level of cognitive dissonance in that statement is rather high.  Most people's cognitive dissonance varies, on a scale of 1 to 10, most can be at 2 or 3.  It would seem yours goes to 11, and is permanently set at 11 as this thread shows.

About your little "5 paper stickers", what you seem to miss is that "on an alternate Earth"  (like in Sliders) those stickers might be the form of money, of some kind of payment system.  Maybe on that alternate Earth a system was setup a long time ago that made these little stickers have a kind of meaning that most agreed upon, so that it meant it had some value in that world, so that those people could exchange it for goods and services.

Here on this planet, there has been a long history of humans attaching a value, to an agreed upon item, and then this item is used as a base with which to exchange goods and services.  Maybe you should look this up on your own, but for example a long time ago we humans on this planet used shells as a form of money, then later some used silver bars, then it was small knives made of bronze, then instead of small knives it became easier to carry small metal coins with a stamped engraving. ... At some point paper money gets invented, with all its trappings, then credit cards with its trappings.

Then along comes an interesting invention that most call the "computer".  It is difficult to nail down the creation of the earliest computer, but around 1822 Charles Babbage is credited with creating a difference engine, which some credit as being one of the first mechanical computers.  Later he designs an analytical engine, which is considered to be the first Turing machine.  As far as I know, all computers these days are Turing machines.

Skipping ahead a bit -- by the 1950's we get electronic digital computers, which are far more successful than the older analog tube machines.  The transistor made a huge impact on getting these machines to shrink in size.

Then guess what happens next.  People notice that these machines can be linked electronically together, this would allow these machines to do more than any machine can individually.  Then in 1969 the US department of defense's Advanced Research Projects Agency (ARPA) awards a contract for development of the ARPANET.  This was the start of what we now use as the "internet".  You are able to read this comment on this page because of the work done to create the internet.  You are now using this "internet".

Then, sometime at the end of 2008 someone introduces, on the internet, a protocol that runs on the "internet", and which can be used to trade things, just as if it were money, as if it were the shells, or the pieces of metal, "coins", that the early humans used so many years ago.  Except that this electronic protocol has many new features that those old "coins" didn't have.  For example, this new protocol, let's call them bitcoins, can be sent via the internet, and it's a piece of electronic data that cannot be easily replicated, thus giving it value that will hold as one person sends it to another via the electronic channel, the internet.

So these "bitcoin" perform a similar function on this planet as your "5 paper stickers" do on that other Earth.

I realize you won't understand this, because either you are incapable of understanding, or because you pretend to not understand.  I simply leave this comment here for others who are still learning.

[BlackHatCoiner]

With bitcoin - there is no company, there are no employees, there is no product, no revenues and no profits.

Exactly - though, there are unrealized gains - that's the way bitcoin works. There are no costly intermediaries which make it work less efficiently, because there's no product/service either.

The value they say is "the network itself that is growing exponentially".  Digits on a computer masquerading as digital assets for a group of people looking to get rich quick or motivated by a strong distrust of the fiat money system.

And it works. We've collectively decided that it's a form of money, and it works like a charm. There's motivation to be responsible for your monetary policy. It's a brand you thing; something you couldn't gain before. There's an alternative monetary system, whose usage isn't now more being forced. We can either use it or not use it, as we please. We believe that power comes with monetary control. We reasonably evaluate this.

There are profits to be made pushing the bitcoin narrative - and an entire industry has grown up around it.

Rather, an entire economy.

Only one problem: look closely and the network itself has to be accessed through a series of gates (physical & political) that that are outside the control of the network.

The network can be accessed by either the clear net, the Tor network, the i2p network, using the TCP/IP protocol. It can also be accessed via satellite. The network's units (bitcoins) can be acquired using either centralized, decentralized exchanges or no exchanges at all.

[Snowshow]

Are you some kind of advertising bot for luring people into Nakamoto's Ponzi?

Are you out of arguments? Poor you.

You're just keep repeating the lie that bitcoin is money.

Because i use the criteria that is used to evaluate money and not some OLTP Systems salesman hurt feelings.

You're keep repeating that bitcoin has utility although you know that without new investors bringing utility from the outside bitcoin holders have nothing.

Bitcoin does the job it’s supposed to do, no matter if a fiat market exists or not. I can transact either way, while your fiat payment method will always need counterparties and trust to work, which opens the doors to fraud and exploitation, without a guarantee to prevent this.

I mean, the thing that you are doing is obvious false advertising. And the promotion of an online fraud, spreading disinformation.

In your dreams maybe. Anyone can verify this information themselves from top to bottom. While it’s not even possible to audit the code of fiat payment systems. They can do false advertising without you ever being able to notice it.

I mean really. You act like an advertising bot. Participants in this thread also. Just take a look at this statement of yours: "Bitcoin does the job it’s supposed to do." What job? If you give me a car and I give you back 5 paper stickers with the word "Thanks", and this gets written in some database as "5 THX", what job would that stickers and data about them do? What that has to do with the concepts of economy, payment or transactions? Nothing. These concepts mean ...

Wo, the level of cognitive dissonance in that statement is rather high.  Most people's cognitive dissonance varies, on a scale of 1 to 10, most can be at 2 or 3.  It would seem yours goes to 11, and is permanently set at 11 as this thread shows.

About your little "5 paper stickers", what you seem to miss is that "on an alternate Earth"  (like in Sliders) those stickers might be the form of money, of some kind of payment system.  Maybe on that alternate Earth a system was setup a long time ago that made these little stickers have a kind of meaning that most agreed upon, so that it meant it had some value in that world, so that those people could exchange it for goods and services.

Here on this planet, there has been a long history of humans attaching a value, to an agreed upon item, and then this item is used as a base with which to exchange goods and services.  Maybe you should look this up on your own, but for example a long time ago we humans on this planet used shells as a form of money, then later some used silver bars, then it was small knives made of bronze, then instead of small knives it became easier to carry small metal coins with a stamped engraving. ... At some point paper money gets invented, with all its trappings, then credit cards with its trappings.

Then along comes an interesting invention that most call the "computer".  It is difficult to nail down the creation of the earliest computer, but around 1822 Charles Babbage is credited with creating a difference engine, which some credit as being one of the first mechanical computers.  Later he designs an analytical engine, which is considered the first Turing machine.  As far as I know, all computers these days are Turing machines.

Skipping ahead a bit -- by the 1950's we get electronic digital computers, which are far more successful than the older analog tube machines.  The transistor made a huge impact on getting these machines to shrink in size.

Then guess what happens next.  People notice that these machines can be linked electronically together, this would allow these machines to do more than any machine can individually.  Then in 1969 the US department of defense's Advanced Research Projects Agency (ARPA) awards a contract for development of the ARPANET.  This was the start of what we now use as the "internet".  You are able to read this comment on this page because of the work done to create the internet.  You are now using this "internet".

Then, sometime at the end of 2008 someone introduces, on the internet, a protocol that runs on the "internet", and which can be used to trade things, just as if it were money, as if it were the shells, or the pieces of metal, "coins", that the early humans used so many years ago.  Except that this electronic protocol has many new features that those old "coins" didn't have.  For example, this new protocol, let's call them bitcoins, can be sent via the internet, and it's a piece of electronic data that cannot be easily replicated, thus giving it value that will hold as one person sends it to another via the electronic channel, the internet.

So these "bitcoin" perform a similar function on this planet as your "5 paper stickers" do on that other Earth.

I realize you won't understand this, because either you are incapable of understanding, or because you pretend to not understand.  I simply leave this comment here for others who are still learning.

Sure, paper stickers can be money because paper is a resource. Although the utility of such resource is small, in theory you can at least compare its degree of utility to the degrees of utility of other resources. But in the Nakamoto scheme, you cannot even show stickers or tokens, neither digital nor paper ones.. All you can show is a number in your wallet that represent the amount of digital tokens. Giving up the actual, valuable resources just because a system of an anonymous person will tell you that you hold a specific amount of tokens that you cannot even show, is the stupidest thing humans ever invented. Putting money in this stupidity because you hope you'll make some money is one thing. But trying to defend it, by writing endless rants about freedom, revolution, new money, etc. is the stupidity of a high order. I mean, just taking a small look on what some guys here are writing and you don't know whether to laugh or to cry.