How Satoshi Nakamoto Fooled the World

[Snowshow]

What information are you fantasizing about? Of course that information is a resource. If you have some nasty discovery about the president Biden or some publicly important person this can be very valuable information.

Lmao it’s not some gossip that he’s talking about. Everything in life comes down to information, that is the base layer for everything. It is the most essential resource of any of them, and being able to study and use information is a big factor of what made humanity the dominant species on earth.

Your DNA carries genetic information. It decides how your organism is built and maintained. If you’re sick or healthy. That allows organism to have evolution. This information can be used or changed. For example in forensics to catch criminals, to do paternity tests etc. Dna is even used in computer science as a storage device, that’s what’s being researched currently.

DNA digital data storage is the process of encoding and decoding binary data to and from synthesized strands of DNA.[1][2]

While DNA as a storage medium has enormous potential because of its high storage density, its practical use is currently severely limited because of its high cost and very slow read and write times.[3]

In June 2019, scientists reported that all 16 GB of text from Wikipedia's English-language version have been encoded into synthetic DNA.[4] In 2021, scientists reported that a custom DNA data writer had been developed that was capable of writing data into DNA at 18 Mbps.[5]

Davos Bitcoin Challenge
On January 21, 2015, Nick Goldman from the European Bioinformatics Institute (EBI), one of the original authors of the 2013 Nature paper,[19] announced the Davos Bitcoin Challenge at the World Economic Forum annual meeting in Davos.[34][35] During his presentation, DNA tubes were handed out to the audience, with the message that each tube contained the private key of exactly one bitcoin, all coded in DNA. The first one to sequence and decode the DNA could claim the bitcoin and win the challenge. The challenge was set for three years and would close if nobody claimed the prize before January 21, 2018.[35]

Almost three years later on January 19, 2018, the EBI announced that a Belgian PhD student, Sander Wuyts, of the University of Antwerp and Vrije Universiteit Brussel, was the first one to complete the challenge.[36][37] Next to the instructions on how to claim the bitcoin (stored as a plain text and PDF file), the logo of the EBI, the logo of the company that printed the DNA (CustomArray), and a sketch of James Joyce were retrieved from the DNA.[38].

Do you understand that computer science isn’t detached from reality slowly?

The whole world around us is made by information. It can be expressed by chemistry, math and physics. Each object is made up in some unique way, that decide it’s properties. How would you express the speed of light without math? Many discoveries would have never been possible if people didn’t express themselves in math. And if you don’t understand why the speed of light is important for society, you won’t be able to understand many other concepts too(in your case). Because your way of thinking has already many deficits.

Even language is basically the transmission of information. There are no universal laws behind it, it’s unprecise just made up by the imagination of humans and yet it works. We have a huge advantage over other living beings, because our language is precise enough to allow for complex communication. We’re thousands of kilometres away from each other and yet can still communicate. Something other living beings can’t. We can even still read writings of long dead people, their information is the only thing that survives. This is made possible by language. Math would be a kind of precise universal language and this is the basis computers use.

Societies are formed on the basis of information. We create laws, ideas, etc. Money is used as a tool to distribute resources in these societies. Once you realise that there are certain properties that determine what makes good and bad money, it’s not the way of transmission of these resources that decide it.

We used metal before, then paper, now digital systems. The properties of physical objects like paper or metal are not fitting enough to form a resistant kind of money, the information they’re transmitting can be forged with, and in golds case the physical properties limit how well you can transmit that information(lack of divisibility etc), which makes it a worse form of money.

But we can form information precisely trough computer science and programming languages. This allows for the creation of a money that perfectly fills out the desirable properties and is stored in a way that is safe from manipulation. The constraints of using something like paper and metal, that are made up by the physical world, are overcome like this. They weren’t made to be money in the first place, we repurposed these things to be used as money. Trough math we can precisely dictate the properties of a digital kind of money, that can perfectly fill out the properties we need. The result is Bitcoin. We didn’t repurpose something physical in an inefficient way, but created the best form of money that is currently possible from scratch. This is a tailor made solution. Society will be able to work better with unforged and higher quality information, than the constantly manipulated low quality mess we used before.

But by entering in Nakamoto's scheme you bought no information. The system simply attributed a number to your address. A number that supposedly represent the amount of tokens or coins. But you're not even able to show those coins. Because they don't exist. They're simply a bait to lure people in a Ponzi scheme. All Ponzi schemes, from the one invented by Charles Ponzi to the one invented by Bernie Madoff, had some kind of bait to lure people in. Generally, the bait was business that generates big returns. In reality however no business existed. Which is why the returns to existing investors could only be generated from the resources contributed by new investors. What Satoshi Nakamoto did, is simply change the bait. Instead of business that generates big returns, Nakamoto used the bait of digital money that generates fast and secure transactions. However, neither money nor transactions exist in reality. And all those that took the bait and invested in Nakamoto's Ponzi scheme, are able to return their investments only from resources contributed by new investors. Admit finally that you're participating in a Ponzi scheme and want to make some money out of it. But please, stop with the stupidity and fantasies about some information or coins or magical money. They don't exist. You look like a religious nutcase trying to convincing me they do.

Go educate yourself how Bitcoin operates and manages money. Or you can repeat the same stupidity. I don't even read your responses anymore.

There's one problem with your rant about information. You missed out something that is called "fake information". This is when someone tells or writes something that is not true. Nakamoto's software writes down something that is not true. It writes down that people have a specific amount of a digital resource called bitcoin. But that's a lie. It's fake information. For example, let's take a person with the number 0.001 and a person with the number 1,000 written next to their addresses. If those numbers were actually true, if they were representing the amount of some digital resource, then the second person should be able show 100,000 times more digital bits in their possession, than the first person. Because, all digital resources are composed of digital bits - 0 and 1. And they occupy memory space. Yet, there's no 100,000 times bigger memory space reserved for the second person, occupied with digital bits. Both persons have only numbers attributed to the addresses. Numbers that occupy nearly the same memory space. Hence, there is no digital resource called bitcoin. Nakamoto's software is writing lies to your online addresses. You're simply the participants in a Ponzi scheme that uses the bait of non-existent bitcoins to lure people in. No amount of rants can change that fact.

[1714097773]

1714097773

[1714097773]

1714097773

[1714097773]

1714097773

[Doan9269]

I see you're still not done with the stupidity. What information are you fantasizing about? Of course that information is a resource. If you have some nasty discovery about the president Biden or some publicly important person this can be very valuable information. But by entering in Nakamoto's scheme you bought no information

What could have been more stupidity than in someone who does not know and not willing to know how controversial his level of assimilation could be, we are talking about bitcoin which is a decentralized network that everyone seeks after to make a private life and be independent from the said government and political power over our finances, yet someone like you could still comes out and call it a ponzi scheme, the highest duration a ponzi scheme last is within a year, bitcoin is 13years and still counting yet you are in doubt.

[Snowshow]

I see you're still not done with the stupidity. What information are you fantasizing about? Of course that information is a resource. If you have some nasty discovery about the president Biden or some publicly important person this can be very valuable information. But by entering in Nakamoto's scheme you bought no information

What could have been more stupidity than in someone who does not know and not willing to know how controversial his level of assimilation could be, we are talking about bitcoin which is a decentralized network that everyone seeks after to make a private life and be independent from the said government and political power over our finances, yet someone like you could still comes out and call it a ponzi scheme, the highest duration a ponzi scheme last is within a year, bitcoin is 13years and still counting yet you are in doubt.

"Bernard Lawrence "Bernie" Madoff was an American financier who executed the largest Ponzi scheme in history, defrauding thousands of investors out of tens of billions of dollars over the course of at least 17 years, possibly longer."

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bernard-madoff.asp

Hence, you're uninformed.

Now, try to calculate how many resources, electricity for example, are invested in this Ponzi scheme. Madoff's Ponzi is nothing in comparison to Nakamoto's Ponzi.

[tadamichi]

There's one problem with your rant about information. You missed out something that is called "fake information". This is when someone tells or writes something that is not true.

That’s what Blockchain, Proof-of-Work and Nodes are for, to prevent any false information from entering. The longest/ most worked chain is the global we truth we all agree upon, because it’s able to outpace attackers. That is because it’s unlikely that 1 entity can gather as much hashing power as a whole network of honest miners, that get paid for their work and have economic incentives to stay honest. It’s just unlikely that a small entity can gather enough resources to outpace all of them. We have a really strong basis to assume that the transaction history is correct and is actually how it happened. This proved itself in practice too, so we’re here over a decade later with a correct transaction history and state of the blockchain, that was actually done without needing trust and a central entity to tell us what the truth is. That is actually backed by many scientific concepts that were used together in a clever way.

With traditional databases you don’t have this, you need a central authority to tell everyone what the „truth“ is, this information can be faked and is purely based on trust. You can change any traditional database in any way, in the moment or later on, they’re not append-only nor do they have any mechanism to preserve truth. And they’re not even open to the public. There will be no single way to prove the transaction history of a bank in 20 years from now is correct/ still exists, just like you can’t prove now, which transactions banks did 20 years ago. Nor will you ever have access to this information. The later we go back in time the harder it will be to get any data and the correct ledger state is just lost. With Bitcoin it’s preserved forever as long as the network is running and the incentives work, you can recover your money even in 100 years from now, if you have access to your keys. Your family will be able to access this money even 100 years now, unheard of of any bank. They can’t even preserve a financial system this long.

Nakamoto's software writes down something that is not true. It writes down that people have a specific amount of a digital resource called bitcoin. But that's a lie. It's fake information. For example, let's take a person with the number 0.001 and a person with the number 1,000 written next to their addresses. If those numbers were actually true, if they were representing the amount of some digital resource, then the second person should be able show 100,000 times more digital bits in their possession, than the first person. Because, all digital resources are composed of digital bits - 0 and 1. And they occupy memory space. Yet, there's no 100,000 times bigger memory space reserved for the second person, occupied with digital bits. Both persons have only numbers attributed to the addresses. Numbers that occupy nearly the same memory space. Hence, there is no digital resource called bitcoin. Nakamoto's software is writing lies to your online addresses. You're simply the participants in a Ponzi scheme that uses the bait of non-existent bitcoins to lure people in. No amount of rants can change that fact.

Go educate yourself how Bitcoin operates and manages money. Or you can repeat the same stupidity. I don't even read your responses anymore.

[JayJuanGee]

hat’s why Bitcoin system is not a payment system. And now, a fan fact. Not only that Nakamoto’s tokens cannot provide utility to their holders. But the holders cannot even show the tokens. All that they can show are numbers in their wallets that represent the amount of the tokens.

I have been doing freelancing gigs lately. Guess how people pay me? Through crypto  

Paypal has a 10% fee in my country, international bank transfer takes weeks, other payment methods are equally incompetent or riddled with unnecessary fees.
But bitcoins and crypto? I get paid instantly, I can convert it to FIAT whenever need be or hodl or convert it into something more stable  

Your arguments are flawed and outdated.

Fuck shitcoins.. we are not talking about shitcoins in this thread.

[edited out]

There's one problem with your rant about information. You missed out something that is called "fake information". This is when someone tells or writes something that is not true. Nakamoto's software writes down something that is not true. It writes down that people have a specific amount of a digital resource called bitcoin. But that's a lie. It's fake information. For example, let's take a person with the number 0.001 and a person with the number 1,000 written next to their addresses. If those numbers were actually true, if they were representing the amount of some digital resource, then the second person should be able show 100,000 times more digital bits in their possession, than the first person. Because, all digital resources are composed of digital bits - 0 and 1. And they occupy memory space. Yet, there's no 100,000 times bigger memory space reserved for the second person, occupied with digital bits. Both persons have only numbers attributed to the addresses. Numbers that occupy nearly the same memory space. Hence, there is no digital resource called bitcoin. Nakamoto's software is writing lies to your online addresses. You're simply the participants in a Ponzi scheme that uses the bait of non-existent bitcoins to lure people in. No amount of rants can change that fact.

To the extent that you are even attempting to grapple with reality Snowshow, you really seem to be mixed up.  Even a Ponzi scheme is not fake information, but it gets a sense of becoming fake if it loses all of its value...and frequently in a Ponzi scheme, the value will quite suddenly go to zero because the payer does not have enough money to cover all of the payouts that are in the system.. so then it gets discovered and then loses value quickly when new folks stop depositing and existing holders might even withdraw.  It continues to be a pretty vacuous claim to be asserting that bitcoin is like that - even though for sure concededly, bitcoin's value would plummet greatly if 80% or more lost confidence in it.

tadamichi also provided a good response in terms of verifying bitcoin's information..

[edgycorner]

hat’s why Bitcoin system is not a payment system. And now, a fan fact. Not only that Nakamoto’s tokens cannot provide utility to their holders. But the holders cannot even show the tokens. All that they can show are numbers in their wallets that represent the amount of the tokens.

I have been doing freelancing gigs lately. Guess how people pay me? Through crypto  

Paypal has a 10% fee in my country, international bank transfer takes weeks, other payment methods are equally incompetent or riddled with unnecessary fees.
But bitcoins and crypto? I get paid instantly, I can convert it to FIAT whenever need be or hodl or convert it into something more stable  

Your arguments are flawed and outdated.

Fuck shitcoins.. we are not talking about shitcoins in this thread.

Bitcoin ain't shitcoin tho.

[Snowshow]

There's one problem with your rant about information. You missed out something that is called "fake information". This is when someone tells or writes something that is not true.

That’s what Blockchain, Proof-of-Work and Nodes are for, to prevent any false information from entering. The longest/ most worked chain is the global we truth we all agree upon, because it’s able to outpace attackers. That is because it’s unlikely that 1 entity can gather as much hashing power as a whole network of honest miners, that get paid for their work and have economic incentives to stay honest. It’s just unlikely that a small entity can gather enough resources to outpace all of them. We have a really strong basis to assume that the transaction history is correct and is actually how it happened. This proved itself in practice too, so we’re here over a decade later with a correct transaction history and state of the blockchain, that was actually done without needing trust and a central entity to tell us what the truth is. That is actually backed by many scientific concepts that were used together in a clever way.

With traditional databases you don’t have this, you need a central authority to tell everyone what the „truth“ is, this information can be faked and is purely based on trust. You can change any traditional database in any way, in the moment or later on, they’re not append-only nor do they have any mechanism to preserve truth. And they’re not even open to the public. There will be no single way to prove the transaction history of a bank in 20 years from now is correct/ still exists, just like you can’t prove now, which transactions banks did 20 years ago. Nor will you ever have access to this information. The later we go back in time the harder it will be to get any data and the correct ledger state is just lost. With Bitcoin it’s preserved forever as long as the network is running and the incentives work, you can recover your money even in 100 years from now, if you have access to your keys. Your family will be able to access this money even 100 years now, unheard of of any bank. They can’t even preserve a financial system this long.

Nakamoto's software writes down something that is not true. It writes down that people have a specific amount of a digital resource called bitcoin. But that's a lie. It's fake information. For example, let's take a person with the number 0.001 and a person with the number 1,000 written next to their addresses. If those numbers were actually true, if they were representing the amount of some digital resource, then the second person should be able show 100,000 times more digital bits in their possession, than the first person. Because, all digital resources are composed of digital bits - 0 and 1. And they occupy memory space. Yet, there's no 100,000 times bigger memory space reserved for the second person, occupied with digital bits. Both persons have only numbers attributed to the addresses. Numbers that occupy nearly the same memory space. Hence, there is no digital resource called bitcoin. Nakamoto's software is writing lies to your online addresses. You're simply the participants in a Ponzi scheme that uses the bait of non-existent bitcoins to lure people in. No amount of rants can change that fact.

Go educate yourself how Bitcoin operates and manages money. Or you can repeat the same stupidity. I don't even read your responses anymore.

You don't get it, do you? The system prevents information from being changed. It doesn't check whether information is true or false. False information is something that doesn't correspond to reality. You can put the following information on blockchain: "1+1=5", and in that way prevent it from being changed. But that doesn't mean one plus one equals five. It's false information. The same is true with bitcoin blockchain. Nakamoto's software writes false information into that database. According to this information, address holders have a specific amount of bitcoins, coins, tokens, asset, digital commodity, or whatever one calls that supposed digital resource. Yet, nobody is able to show that resource. It's like developing software that would write down that people have xx spaceships that no one wouldn't be able to show. It's literally unbelievable how blindly you people believe the software of an anonymous author/s when it writes down that you hold a revolutionary digital asset in a specific amount, and in the same time, not being able to show that asset. I call this the stupidity of a high order.

[dlightag]

The Bitcoin funder which his name implies as Satoshi Nakamoto up to date it has not show case his face for people to know him as a person, nevertheless, Satoshi Nakamoto created bitcoin as a means of digital payment online, which has been the world problem he has solved so far, in other words it has created job opportunity across the nation and is transparent to each other. Many Government are kicking against bitcoin in the sense that bitcoin has a lot of work to do for a better understanding and how it works. Not on the bad side many people fall a victim to become reach quick, Bitcoin is a gradual process to the top.   

[mynonce]

You can put the following information on blockchain: "1+1=5", and in that way prevent it from being changed. But that doesn't mean one plus one equals five. It's false information. The same is true with bitcoin blockchain. Nakamoto's software writes false information into that database. According to this information, address holders have a specific amount of bitcoins, coins, tokens, asset, digital commodity, or whatever one calls that supposed digital resource. Yet, nobody is able to show that resource.

"1+1=5"<- you are here, see the full picture. In Bitcoin's system it's "1+1=5 ... - 3"

You're on the right track to understand Bitcoin.

[tadamichi]

You don't get it, do you? The system prevents information from being changed. It doesn't check whether information is true or false. False information is something that doesn't correspond to reality. You can put the following information on blockchain: "1+1=5", and in that way prevent it from being changed. But that doesn't mean one plus one equals five. It's false information.

Exactly, that’s why Blockchain alone is not a solution to every problem, like shitcoiners want to make it seem. But in Bitcoins case all information that is necessary to verify the information exists inside the system itself. It’s based on digital signatures. For a transaction:

• You need a hash of the previous transaction(this shows how you got the coins).
• You need the public key of the next person you want to transfer it to.
• A digital signature of the two previous points, which proves you’re the owner of the coins, this can’t be faked it needs your private key, you can only have the correct private key if you were the previous owner of the coins. That’s why you need to secure your private keys, because it serves as a proof of ownership.

It’s impossible to even transact with false information like this. You can’t try to spend other peoples coins or spend coins you don’t have, or write any bs information you want inside the Bitcoin Blockchain. So then only the double spend problems remained, but full nodes/ miners validate new transactions before they get taken into a Block. Only utxos can be spent. Invalid blocks are rejected. Only objectively valid transactions are taken into new blocks. When there’s conflicting transactions the one broadcasted first is considered valid. For this you have a timestamp server that relies on PoW. This was the first time this problem was solved in a decentralized, trustless way, Bitcoins validity is ensured objectively. It’s checked wether information is true or false.

When there’s the nft bs and other things that shitcoiners want to sell as solutions, then blockchain isn’t the solution. As it can’t verify information that is outside the system. Like art, real estate, medical records etc. As you can simply add in false information and there’s no fully objective way of verifying it. And like you rightly stated it doesn’t matter if false information can’t be changed, but on centralized blockchains not even that is certain. So there a blockchain wouldn’t be different from a centralized database as both need trust to work.

It continues to be a pretty vacuous claim to be asserting that bitcoin is like that - even though for sure concededly, bitcoin's value would plummet greatly if 80% or more lost confidence in it.

Bitcoin has hodl rates of like 65%+, im not sure how many assets even reach this territory. Anyone who thinks this is a ponzi is clueless about what other assets are actually based on.

[darkv0rt3x]

There's one problem with your rant about information. You missed out something that is called "fake information". This is when someone tells or writes something that is not true. Nakamoto's software writes down something that is not true. It writes down that people have a specific amount of a digital resource called bitcoin. But that's a lie. It's fake information. For example, let's take a person with the number 0.001 and a person with the number 1,000 written next to their addresses. If those numbers were actually true, if they were representing the amount of some digital resource, then the second person should be able show 100,000 times more digital bits in their possession, than the first person. Because, all digital resources are composed of digital bits - 0 and 1. And they occupy memory space. Yet, there's no 100,000 times bigger memory space reserved for the second person, occupied with digital bits. Both persons have only numbers attributed to the addresses. Numbers that occupy nearly the same memory space. Hence, there is no digital resource called bitcoin. Nakamoto's software is writing lies to your online addresses. You're simply the participants in a Ponzi scheme that uses the bait of non-existent bitcoins to lure people in. No amount of rants can change that fact.

Clearly you haven't a clue whatsoever of what's going on in the Bitcoin network. You want to try to make people believe you know about Bitcoin, but by what you just said, you have absolutely no clue!
For your information, the system is prepared to reject any "fake information" that a maliciuous miner might try to put into the blockchain. But no point in explaining how! You wouldn't understand!

You don't even have a notion of what numbers represent! Let alone what is going on in the Bitcoin network. You have no clue! Educate yourself first on Elementary School. 1st and 2nd class would be a good starting points!
Then, you need to educate yourself in computers, bits and bytes! Then, come back again and maybe, just maybe you make a reasonable statement about bits and bytes!
There are no lies in the Bitcoin network. It's all plain and clear. All can see it all but you!

You don't get it, do you? The system prevents information from being changed. It doesn't check whether information is true or false. False information is something that doesn't correspond to reality. You can put the following information on blockchain: "1+1=5", and in that way prevent it from being changed. But that doesn't mean one plus one equals five. It's false information. The same is true with bitcoin blockchain. Nakamoto's software writes false information into that database. According to this information, address holders have a specific amount of bitcoins, coins, tokens, asset, digital commodity, or whatever one calls that supposed digital resource. Yet, nobody is able to show that resource. It's like developing software that would write down that people have xx spaceships that no one wouldn't be able to show. It's literally unbelievable how blindly you people believe the software of an anonymous author/s when it writes down that you hold a revolutionary digital asset in a specific amount, and in the same time, not being able to show that asset. I call this the stupidity of a high order.

So DAMN WRROOOONNNGGGG... The blockchain verifies everything. Don't be stupid by telling those lies and nonsense. You are the one lying. What the actual fuck are you saying?
If you put that info in the blockchain, metaphorically speaking, that would mean a bad block, a bad transaction such as a double spend or something like that. That won't FUCKING PASS. YOU'RE AN IDIOT saying that crap, those lies!
And WRROOONNNGGG AGAIN when you say you can't show it. Of FUCKING course you can show every FUCKING body what is in your address. In fact every FUCKING one can see! What an ignorant person. Dumb and stupid as fuck, up to the point that he can spit shit like this out of his mouth. I would be extremely embarrassed if I said anything like that!

Dig a hole and jump in. I'll help covering you so that you don't have to deal with the shame!

[JayJuanGee]

hat’s why Bitcoin system is not a payment system. And now, a fan fact. Not only that Nakamoto’s tokens cannot provide utility to their holders. But the holders cannot even show the tokens. All that they can show are numbers in their wallets that represent the amount of the tokens.

I have been doing freelancing gigs lately. Guess how people pay me? Through crypto [highlighted to help out edgycorner.. you can thank me later.]

Paypal has a 10% fee in my country, international bank transfer takes weeks, other payment methods are equally incompetent or riddled with unnecessary fees.
But bitcoins and crypto [highlighted to help out edgycorner.. you can thank me later.]? I get paid instantly, I can convert it to FIAT whenever need be or hodl or convert it into something more stable  

Your arguments are flawed and outdated.

Fuck shitcoins.. we are not talking about shitcoins in this thread.

Bitcoin ain't shitcoin tho.

Do I need to highlight what you wrote?  [ok.. I did. you can thank me later.]

You can put the following information on blockchain: "1+1=5", and in that way prevent it from being changed. But that doesn't mean one plus one equals five. It's false information. The same is true with bitcoin blockchain. Nakamoto's software writes false information into that database. According to this information, address holders have a specific amount of bitcoins, coins, tokens, asset, digital commodity, or whatever one calls that supposed digital resource. Yet, nobody is able to show that resource.

"1+1=5"<- you are here, see the full picture. In Bitcoin's system it's "1+1=5 ... - 3"

You're on the right track to understand Bitcoin.

First point:  in regards to what truth the bitcoin blockchain can verify.  Of course, it is not going to verify something that you put on there, except that you put it on there as of such and such block..  So you can prove that you put it on there, but not prove the underlying substance asserted. .which might have some applications regarding when it was put on the blockchain, but the underlying claim may well be a "so fucking what?" in regards to whether they are true. 

On the other hand, if we are trying to confirm that x, y z transactions took place, these are real bitcoins, and these many fees and rewards were issued, then that is the truth that the bitcoin block chain is confirming every 10 minutes and reconfirming and verifying all of the coins on the blockchain whether they moved in the last 10 minutes or not.   That kind of truth is very powerful when it comes to money, and so Snowshow continues to be disingenuine when he proclaims that bitcoin had been trying to verify truth to underlying claims that are put on the blockchain. .bitcoin cannot do that and only confused or disingenuine people believe it is trying to verify claims  merely because those claims are placed on the bitcoin blockchain (timechain) from outside sources.

Edit: I see that tadamichi outlined these ideas pretty well (better than my own rambling on the topic) in his response to Snowshow.

Second point:  in regards to Snowshow learning or making progress or on the right track:  What an optimist you are mynonce!!!!!

If Snowshow were legitimately confused and/or stubborn, then you are probably correct that sooner or later, he would end up getting it..

The problem with Snowshow is that he somehow sold out and he is pumping bullshit that no person of his actual seeming intelligence could actually believe if they were really trying... so in that sense, the ONLY thing to really wish is that on a personal level he is actually protecting himself and has a stash..

Sure, it is possible that Snowshow is in a similar camp as Peter Schiff, but does anyone believe Schiff anymore, either?  sure there are some folks who believe Schiff because Schiff is running a known business in the real world (some recent scandals with Schiff too).. .. maybe because Schiff is a bit less extreme than Snowshow (they are both pretty extreme)?  or maybe because Peter is not anonymous (I am not bashing on anonymity.. most of us here are either fully or partially anonymous.. but so many of us here have way more credible and believable positions than either Snowshow or Schiff)..

[edgycorner]

hat’s why Bitcoin system is not a payment system. And now, a fan fact. Not only that Nakamoto’s tokens cannot provide utility to their holders. But the holders cannot even show the tokens. All that they can show are numbers in their wallets that represent the amount of the tokens.

I have been doing freelancing gigs lately. Guess how people pay me? Through crypto [highlighted to help out edgycorner.. you can thank me later.]

Paypal has a 10% fee in my country, international bank transfer takes weeks, other payment methods are equally incompetent or riddled with unnecessary fees.
But bitcoins and crypto [highlighted to help out edgycorner.. you can thank me later.]? I get paid instantly, I can convert it to FIAT whenever need be or hodl or convert it into something more stable  

Your arguments are flawed and outdated.

Fuck shitcoins.. we are not talking about shitcoins in this thread.

Bitcoin ain't shitcoin tho.

Do I need to highlight what you wrote?  [ok.. I did. you can thank me later.]

and  ? FYI: Bitcoin is a crypto

[Eden Loomis]

i'm not really sure that your post is truth

[Nhazwrath]

Satoshi Nakamoto is the identity used by the unknown person or people that authored the so called Bitcoin Whitepaper. In that paper, they claimed to have invented an electronic money, and a system based on cryptographic proof, that uses that money. Basically, they claimed to have invented a superior payment system with its own money. However, that is not true. They invented neither money nor payment system. Instead, they invented an advanced way of recording participants in a Ponzi scheme. Namely, all Ponzi schemes, from the one invented by Charles Ponzi to the one invented by Bernie Madoff, recorded the participants in some way. People would invest their funds in the schemes, and the organizers would give them some kind of written evidence of their investments. That is, they would record them as scheme participants. Satoshi Nakamoto simply invented an online way of doing this, where the investors receive digital tokens of participation. The record about the amount of tokens is attributed to the online addresses of the participants and stored in a distributed database called blockchain. The tokens themselves are called bitcoins. Nakamoto set the maximum number of bitcoins to 21 million. However, each bitcoin can be divided into 100 million units. The units are called satoshis. Of course, that’s just semantics, and in reality, Nakamoto’s invention has 2.1 quadrillion tokens. Now the obvious question that comes to mind is, why are these tokens actually tokens of ponzi participation? Well, for a simple reason. Anyone who holds them, owns nothing. Participants in all Ponzi schemes hold some kind of record of participation, but they own no resource that they could utilize. Which is why thay must wait for new investors to enter the Ponzi schemes and transfer the ownership of resources to them. The same is true in this case. By holding bitcoins or satoshis, people hold record of participation in Nakamoto’s scheme. However they own no resources they could utilize. For that reson, the holders are forced to wait for new investors to join in, and in that way transfer the ownership of resources to them. That's why bitcoins and satoshis are simply the tokens of ponzi participation.

The thing that we have just described, obviously has absolutely nothing to do with money or payment systems. That’s because money is a resource, while payment systems are a set of methods, procedures, rules and technology for transferring resources. Generally, resources are anything that provides utility to people. For example, products, labor, or services, provide utility by satisfying human needs. Land provides utility because it supports all human activities. Shares in the companies provide utility because they grant access to profits or equity of the companies. Debt provides utility at payment because what is payable by one is receivable by another. And so on. Then, by comparing the degrees of utility of the two resources, the parties know how much of one resource can they give in the exchange for another, or vice versa. The agreement about the exchange is called a transaction. The realization of a transaction is called a payment. By holding bitcoins or satoshis, people have no ownership of resources. They have nothing to utilize. They have nothing to compare the degree of utility. All they have are the records about the amount of Nakamoto’s tokens. So, what’s going on in Nakamoto’s invention are neither transactions nor payments. But, an advanced way of recording participants in a Ponzi scheme.

Despite being a Ponzi scheme, many people fell for Nakamoto’s invention and believe it is a payment system. This misconception is mainly because the Bitcoin system uses numbers to represent the amount of ponzi tokens. Which is exactly what actual payment system use to represent the amount of resources they are transferring. For example. In fiat currency-based payment systems, these currencies are nothing but records in the form of numbers written on banknotes or bank accounts. The logic then goes: “if fiat currency-based systems are payment systems, then the Bitcoin system is a payment system as well, given they all use numbers.” But, of course, that logic is flawed. Fiat currency-based systems use numbers to represent the amount of a resource in the form of debt. And it is that resource what provides utility to fiat currency holders. Namely, when banks grant loans to borrowers, and in that way create debt, they use fiat currencies to represent the amount of that debt. Once debt is created, market participants invest in it by trading their resources with borrowers for fiat currencies. In that way the participants become fiat currency holders and debt owners. Debt ownership then changes hands on the market. But, the nature of debt is that it needs to be paid. That is, the borrowers must return resources back to fiat currency holders. That’s why the banks use the mortgages and other liens to force them to repay their loans. And in order to repay their loans, the borrowers must work for fiat currency holders or sell them products and services. In that way, the borrowers return the resources back to the people that invested in debt. Basically, they pay debt to these people. Then, the borrowers take the received fiat currency units to the banks as evidence that debt to investors in debt has been paid. The banks then liquidate the part of their loans. The process repeats until the loans are paid off. If the borrowers default on their loans, the banks will foreclose their mortgages and sell the properties to fiat currency holders. That’s because fiat currencies are the liabilities of the banks, which is formally record in their balance sheets. The banks therefore must withdraw fiat currencies from the market to liquidate the unpaid loans. So that’s how debt provides utility to fiat currency holders. Which is why it is a resource. And it is ownership of resources what is transferred in the payment systems. On the other hand, in the Bitcoin system no ownership of resources is transferred. But just tokens of ponzi participation. That’s why Bitcoin system is not a payment system. And now, a fan fact. Not only that Nakamoto’s tokens cannot provide utility to their holders. But the holders cannot even show the tokens. All that they can show are numbers in their wallets that represent the amount of the tokens.

Satoshi Nakamoto fooled the world through language manipulation in the Bitcoin Whitepaper. For example, by referring to their ponzi tokens as “money”, “coins” or “electronic cash”. Or by referring to their invention as “payment system”. Money and coins are simply types of resources (debt or metal). Electronic cash is representation of an already existing money (PayPal, Skrill, Neteller). While payment systems are systems that transfer resources. Nakamoto’s language manipulation, together with the misconception that the usage of numbers makes Bitcoin system a payment system, created the deception so big that it caused two mind-boggling things to happen. First, it pumped up the price of a single ponzi token from zero, to a high of $70,000, with the current price around $20,000. Second, it made the most bizarre industry ever to pop up – the crypto industry. This industry makes huge profits from the most nonsensical human activity ever – buying and selling ponzi tokens.

To conclude. Satoshi Nakamoto invented neither money nor payment system. They simply invented an advanced way of recording the participants in a Ponzi scheme. The problem in Nakamoto scheme is the same as in all Ponzi schemes. The earlier participants can return their investment of resources only from resources brought by more recent participants. Consequently, if people stop participating (here buying ponzi tokens), then there are no resources anymore. And those that are left holding the tokens, are literally left with nothing.

Source: https://btcfraud.wordpress.com/

The inability to write ruins your conspiracy.   

[BlackHatCoiner]

“No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot.” – Mark Twain

How about we leave it there?

[coinmanhere]

Typical human behaviour, Target someone big with controversial theory and everyone on the other side will try to prove it wrong. To be Frank it is not even worth discussing.

[Snowshow]

“No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot.” – Mark Twain

How about we leave it there?

The real question is who's the idiot here. Those that pay enormous amounts of money to buy something they're even unable to show, or the one who simply describes this by providing facts and evidence.

I again completely rewrited the OP post because I don't agree with Twain, and I think that even an idiot can be persuaded with good evidence. But, maybe Twain is right and I am wrong. We'll see.

[Nhazwrath]

“No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot.” – Mark Twain

How about we leave it there?

The real question is who's the idiot here. Those that pay enormous amounts of money to buy something they're even unable to show, or the one who simply describes this by providing facts and evidence.

I again completely rewrited the OP post because I don't agree with Twain, and I think that even an idiot can be persuaded with good evidence. But, maybe Twain is right and I am wrong. We'll see.

Try helping a drugged out/alcoholic paranoid homeless person get off the street.   That will teach you things you'd rather not know, once you've learned them.   Then revisit that mark twain quote.   

Also learn about Information squares.  Its a simple concept.   When a 6 year old talks about things where you know they are wrong due to the fact you have more information then the 6 year old.  Your information square is larger then theirs.  You can see where the edges of their information stops.   But They cant. 

Now apply this to yourself. 

[tadamichi]

“No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot.” – Mark Twain

How about we leave it there?

Im not sure if this quote is actually from twain, but the point is still correct. Even after being provably wrong he just stays ignorant and doesn’t even get the idea to question the basis of his arguments, or to have any serious discussion.

Dunning kruger effect striking again, he still overestimates his competence and knowledge, it’s impossible in his mind that he is wrong, even tho all of this bs got factually debunked. He literally worked with wrong assumptions, like saying the information doesn’t get verified, and yet there’s nothing in his mind that even makes him question, if he is really right or wrong. It’s just impossible to discuss with an idiot, because he’s unable/ or unwilling to do it. He just assumes he is the absolute source of truth, and everyone else could only be wrong. He’s literally unable to recognise deficiencies in his own abilities. That is the problem, we can’t even seriously discuss like this, because the result is already set before the discussion for him, everyone else can only be wrong before the discussion even started. So this bs would never end.

The real question is who's the idiot here.

It’s not really, we’ll just let the readers decide and stop it here.

Those that pay enormous amounts of money to buy something they're even unable to show, or the one who simply describes this by providing facts and evidence.

I again completely rewrited the OP post because I don't agree with Twain, and I think that even an idiot can be persuaded with good evidence. But, maybe Twain is right and I am wrong. We'll see.

Nice try, but „Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.". I think we should skip reading the op for the 1000th time or even go down to the argument you just tried to make again. The readers can decide for themselves now.