⚽ UEFA Euro 2024 in Germany ⚽ - Qualifiers➡Group Stage➡1/8➡QF➡HF➡FINAL

[KTChampions]

I wouldn't make a direct connection between one player's goal percentage and his importance. For example, in Spain, Villa scored something like 80-90% of the goals in the final part of the World Cup and in one of the European Championships, but the main link in the team was not he, but the midfield. Under Xavi and Iniesta, Messi also scored a high percentage of goals and, as you can see, it was easy to replace him with Villa.

Every striker benefits from a strong midfield, but at the same time a strong midfield benefits from a strong striker. If you have a striker with average efficiency, the result will be that all the beautiful passes that midfield plays will never be perceived as what they are. If a strong midfield meets a strong striker, the result is what we have seen in Barcelona.

But let me please add here as you brought up Messi and somewhat drew the line to Villa. Could you please come up with a single name in the history of football that achieved these stats?



This guy has more assists than Xavi and Iniesta combined, I guess everyone knows how sick that is. I have never seen a more deadly striker who at the same time is as deadly in giving assists. The only one who comes to my mind who is better in giving assists is De Bruyne. But this combination of scoring and giving assists debunks this weird point that Messi benefitted from a good midfield throughout his career and that's it, can just be replaced with Villa. Lol, sorry to lol here because I always respect your opinion, but this time we differ severely.

And yes, in Messi's case there is "a direct connection between one player's goal percentage and his importance." In Lukaku usually not so much, but it would hurt Belgium if a player in great shape gets injured because at the moment he seems to be onto something in the national team. 

This is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact. Xavi and Iniesta, without Messi, won the World Cup + two European Championships in the period 2008-2012, and Messi failed at the World Cup without them and played mediocre at the Copa America. Do you understand that he was 100% replaceable? Zero uniqueness and zero success without Xavi and Iniesta. This is not an opinion, these are facts.
And if you have a good memory, then you must remember how they said about Messi “if he played in the farm league, he would score 100 goals.” But in the end, when he ended up in the farm league, his performance was absolutely usual and he left PSG to the boos of the fans.

[mv1986]

I wouldn't make a direct connection between one player's goal percentage and his importance. For example, in Spain, Villa scored something like 80-90% of the goals in the final part of the World Cup and in one of the European Championships, but the main link in the team was not he, but the midfield. Under Xavi and Iniesta, Messi also scored a high percentage of goals and, as you can see, it was easy to replace him with Villa.

Every striker benefits from a strong midfield, but at the same time a strong midfield benefits from a strong striker. If you have a striker with average efficiency, the result will be that all the beautiful passes that midfield plays will never be perceived as what they are. If a strong midfield meets a strong striker, the result is what we have seen in Barcelona.

But let me please add here as you brought up Messi and somewhat drew the line to Villa. Could you please come up with a single name in the history of football that achieved these stats?



This guy has more assists than Xavi and Iniesta combined, I guess everyone knows how sick that is. I have never seen a more deadly striker who at the same time is as deadly in giving assists. The only one who comes to my mind who is better in giving assists is De Bruyne. But this combination of scoring and giving assists debunks this weird point that Messi benefitted from a good midfield throughout his career and that's it, can just be replaced with Villa. Lol, sorry to lol here because I always respect your opinion, but this time we differ severely.

And yes, in Messi's case there is "a direct connection between one player's goal percentage and his importance." In Lukaku usually not so much, but it would hurt Belgium if a player in great shape gets injured because at the moment he seems to be onto something in the national team. 

This is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact. Xavi and Iniesta, without Messi, won the World Cup + two European Championships in the period 2008-2012, and Messi failed at the World Cup without them and played mediocre at the Copa America. Do you understand that he was 100% replaceable? Zero uniqueness and zero success without Xavi and Iniesta. This is not an opinion, these are facts.
And if you have a good memory, then you must remember how they said about Messi “if he played in the farm league, he would score 100 goals.” But in the end, when he ended up in the farm league, his performance was absolutely usual and he left PSG to the boos of the fans.

Totally fine if you label your opinion as a fact. And even with that I don't have any issues, because thinking that an opinion is a fact is also an opinion and you are definitely entitled to say and think whatever you want. 

But you know, since you have provided your opinion-based facts, I will also provide my opinion as my final response to this discussion:



I guess it's time to get back on topic.

[KTChampions]

This is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact. Xavi and Iniesta, without Messi, won the World Cup + two European Championships in the period 2008-2012, and Messi failed at the World Cup without them and played mediocre at the Copa America. Do you understand that he was 100% replaceable? Zero uniqueness and zero success without Xavi and Iniesta. This is not an opinion, these are facts.
And if you have a good memory, then you must remember how they said about Messi “if he played in the farm league, he would score 100 goals.” But in the end, when he ended up in the farm league, his performance was absolutely usual and he left PSG to the boos of the fans.

Totally fine if you label your opinion as a fact. And even with that I don't have any issues, because thinking that an opinion is a fact is also an opinion and you are definitely entitled to say and think whatever you want.  

But you know, since you have provided your opinion-based facts, I will also provide my opinion as my final response to this discussion:



I guess it's time to get back on topic.

Oh you!   Do you want to make an argument using awards from one of the most shameful and corrupt organizations?

You say that I am presenting my opinion as facts. Okay, let's leave only the facts: in the period 2008-2012, Xavi and Iniesta, without Messi, won everything they could (World Cup + two European Championships), Messi failed without them. Please remove my opinion from here. Leave only the facts  
I think we are still on topic since such giants as Xavi and Iniesta (even if robbed) will always remain as benchmarks for comparison.

[Gaza13]

In about a month's time, the remaining matches will be played and the group stage will be completed.
Starting from group A, Spain and Scotland will most probably be the two teams to come out of this group. Norway no longer has a chance.
In Group B, France are definitely out of the group and will most probably be the leaders. It's still early for the second team, but I think the Netherlands will most probably get out of the group.
In Group C, we see England definitely out of the group and there will be a big battle between Italy and Ukraine for second place. I hope that Italy will be the winner of this competition.
In Group D, our representative Turkey is most likely to come out of the group as the leader. Secondly, there will be a big competition between Wales and Croatia.
In Group E, we see that everything is not completely clear, but it would not be wrong to say that Albania will most likely come out of the group and the second team is not yet clear.
In Group F, we can see that Belgium and Austria are definitely out of the group, I think there is no need to talk more in this group.
In Group G, we can say that Hungary and Serbia will most likely exit the group, Hungary is guaranteed to exit for sure, but Serbia is not guaranteed.
In Group H, although it is not entirely clear, we can say that Slovenia and Denmark will go out hand in hand.
In Group I, Switzerland and Romania are most likely to get out of the group, but we should not forget that Israel is also in the race.
And finally, in Group J, we can say that Portugal is the clear leader. It should not go without saying that Portugal played some good matches in this tournament, they had a really good tournament.

Yes, I agree with what you said about Groups A and B, G, H, I, and J. Yes, in group C I think so too, Italy still has the last 2 matches, North Macedonia, in the next match Italy must win to narrow down the number of points against Ukraine in the standings, if Italy loses against North Macedonia then it's over for Italy . In fact, Ukraine will be more enthusiastic about facing Italy in the next match at the end of the match.

Group D, if you look at Croatia's last 2 matches, Croatia is far superior in winning every match Compared to Wales, Wales in the last match will be against Türkiye. Group E, the top 3 candidates in the team standings, still have a chance to become group winners and group runners-up.

[FanEagle]

Some groups are easier than the others, while there are teams better than leaders of other groups end up being second or even third because they end up in a harder group. Like for example in group D, Turkey is great, Croatia is great and Wales is great, only two of the three will go out, whereas group H for example, Slovenia seems like the best one? That doesn't make sense, any of the three in the group D would lead that group easily if they draw the groups better.

This is why I keep saying that we need to have like some big league, like one league that everyone plays each other just once, I know that would be a lot of games but that would make it fair and everyone would show their true talents and nobody would be going up with just pure group draw luck.

[execijutiere]

Yes, I agree with what you said about Groups A and B, G, H, I, and J. Yes, in group C I think so too, Italy still has the last 2 matches, North Macedonia, in the next match Italy must win to narrow down the number of points against Ukraine in the standings, if Italy loses against North Macedonia then it's over for Italy . In fact, Ukraine will be more enthusiastic about facing Italy in the next match at the end of the match.

Group D, if you look at Croatia's last 2 matches, Croatia is far superior in winning every match Compared to Wales, Wales in the last match will be against Türkiye. Group E, the top 3 candidates in the team standings, still have a chance to become group winners and group runners-up.

I definitely don't expect Italy to lose to North Macedonia. Macedonia doesn't have much purpose left and I don't think they will give Italy a hard time. Italy will want to go to Ukraine with equal points at least. That way they will be in a better mood, but even if they are not, I think they will beat Ukraine anyway.
Croatia's exit from the group is a bit of a problem, but I think they have an equal chance with Wales. If Turkey beat Wales, Croatia will have a clear chance to get out of the group.

[shogun47]

But even if England were able to bring in Pep Guardiola, that still wouldn't guarantee the win of trophies. I think when you compare the best few teams there are in Europe and in the world right now, it would always be a thrilling matchup. Whether it is Argentina vs. France or France vs. England or Spain vs. a team like Croatia or Brazil. There it is not always about one team being 2% better than the other. Moments decide games, a free kick, a penalty that may or may not have been awarded. The way to the final and then to win it is not only in the hands of the coach or the players, it also has to do with very little events during a game.

Agreed. Just like Harry Kane had a penalty to score to keep them on in the game against France during the FIFA World Cup but failed to do so. Pep Guardiola's a top notch manager in the world. This English players have qualities all they need is a sounds and tactical genius to lead the boys. Pep Guardiola would want it.

I am really not a fan of oversimplification and while I am absolutely sure that Pep Guardiola can improve every team, he is also up against the same conditions and specific circumstances that lead to a win or a loss. Nobody talks about a game 10 years later when it was won with a lucky goal. History is written and it says team X is the Euro winner or Champions League winner, and it doesn't matter anymore whether the goal was offside or not. I know offside can't happen anymore (oh well, Liverpool in the Premier League? ), but these minor things are unpredictable. That's why being a tactical genius doesn't make you the winner. But it gives you an advantage and I hope one day Guardiola will coach a national team.

[Docnaster]

Yes, I agree with what you said about Groups A and B, G, H, I, and J. Yes, in group C I think so too, Italy still has the last 2 matches, North Macedonia, in the next match Italy must win to narrow down the number of points against Ukraine in the standings, if Italy loses against North Macedonia then it's over for Italy . In fact, Ukraine will be more enthusiastic about facing Italy in the next match at the end of the match.

Group D, if you look at Croatia's last 2 matches, Croatia is far superior in winning every match Compared to Wales, Wales in the last match will be against Türkiye. Group E, the top 3 candidates in the team standings, still have a chance to become group winners and group runners-up.

I definitely don't expect Italy to lose to North Macedonia. Macedonia doesn't have much purpose left and I don't think they will give Italy a hard time. Italy will want to go to Ukraine with equal points at least. That way they will be in a better mood, but even if they are not, I think they will beat Ukraine anyway.
Croatia's exit from the group is a bit of a problem, but I think they have an equal chance with Wales. If Turkey beat Wales, Croatia will have a clear chance to get out of the group.

England have already secured their own spot in next year's European championship but who joins the Three Lions to progress from the group C has still not been decided as both Ukraine and Italy are still very much in contention on who joins England to qualify from the group.
Italy are currently third with 10 points but has played one game fewer than second placed Ukraine who already has 13 points which means that Italy will be level on points with Ukraine if they win their outstanding game with North Macedonia. There's still a lot to play for both teams as the battle for who joins England to qualify from that group continues

[KTChampions]

Some groups are easier than the others, while there are teams better than leaders of other groups end up being second or even third because they end up in a harder group. Like for example in group D, Turkey is great, Croatia is great and Wales is great, only two of the three will go out, whereas group H for example, Slovenia seems like the best one? That doesn't make sense, any of the three in the group D would lead that group easily if they draw the groups better.

This is why I keep saying that we need to have like some big league, like one league that everyone plays each other just once, I know that would be a lot of games but that would make it fair and everyone would show their true talents and nobody would be going up with just pure group draw luck.

I think Turkey's good performance after long-term failures is a surprise for everyone (not the same as in the case of Albania, but still) so I would say that all groups are +- equal.
As for a round-robin tournament for all teams, how do you imagine this? 53 teams play a round-robin tournament, let’s say even just one round (although this is unfair since playing at home and away are different things). In total, each team must play 52 games 
In order for this to happen in an adequate time frame, other tournaments must be shortened (and significantly), for example, national championships must also be held in one round.

[Gencecikmen]

England defeated Italy 3-1. Hary Kane scored 2 goals and Marcus Rashford scored 1 goal. Harry Kane to give his 61th goal in his 87th appearance with National Team. I wasn't surprised to see England win because the lineup of England it so sensationally good, in the offense were star players like Bellingham, Rashford, Foden and Kane.

Ukraine will take 2nd place in the group while Italy had to drop to 3rd position. Things are not going well for Italy.

Having these four names you mentioned on the team as offensive players is quite impressive. They have all very complementary qualities and Bellingham fits perfectly into this formation because he does the same for England as he is doing for Real Madrid. I believe his biggest strength is that he knows how to play his position defensively despite being positioned in the offensive part of the formation. Kane is a great striker with enormous efficiency and Foden and Rashford can speed up the game incredibly fast and with a high technical level. I am not sure what more you could ask for. They are one of the favorites in my opinion.

If Bellingham continues at this level, it seems that he will not leave the Ballon D'Or award to anyone easily in the coming years! As long as there is a Real Lobby behind such a talented and successful player, his rivals will have a harder job.

It was a disgrace for Italy, famous for its defence. The Italian number six played a big part in the second goal. He walks into the defence and makes way for Rashford to pass. In the third goal, the number 19 was not even as combative as a wild donkey against the lion Kane. Weak teams can do this kind of defence.

England played like a storm. It was by far the most spectacular match I've seen in the Euro 2024 qualifiers. The first half, the Italy team's sequence of passing the ball back and forth like 2012 Barcelona with single passes to the feet in some parts was also marvellous.

In the next 10 years, Bellingham may go down in football history like his idol football player Zinédine Zidane. He is a young, fast, dynamic, technical, talented and hardworking football player. He is also a football player open for improvement. He can achieve great success both in the national team and in Real Madrid. Both teams are suitable clubs to achieve success.

[Hirose UK]

Some groups are easier than the others, while there are teams better than leaders of other groups end up being second or even third because they end up in a harder group. Like for example in group D, Turkey is great, Croatia is great and Wales is great, only two of the three will go out, whereas group H for example, Slovenia seems like the best one? That doesn't make sense, any of the three in the group D would lead that group easily if they draw the groups better.

Each group will have two or three teams that are strong enough to dominate every match and they are fighting for position to advance to the next round.
In this group qualification it is clear who will be able to qualify for the next round because the matches in the group qualification phase are almost finished.
When we enter the play-off round until the final we will witness truly stunning matches from each team competing.

This is why I keep saying that we need to have like some big league, like one league that everyone plays each other just once, I know that would be a lot of games but that would make it fair and everyone would show their true talents and nobody would be going up with just pure group draw luck.

I still don't understand what you mean by this.

But I think the draw in each group has really been fair and only the strongest will be able to take the lead and maintain their position in this possibly quite fierce competition.
I think so far there have been no problems whatsoever in the draws for each Euro event which is held every four years.

[Sithara007]

Some groups are easier than the others, while there are teams better than leaders of other groups end up being second or even third because they end up in a harder group. Like for example in group D, Turkey is great, Croatia is great and Wales is great, only two of the three will go out, whereas group H for example, Slovenia seems like the best one? That doesn't make sense, any of the three in the group D would lead that group easily if they draw the groups better.

This is why I keep saying that we need to have like some big league, like one league that everyone plays each other just once, I know that would be a lot of games but that would make it fair and everyone would show their true talents and nobody would be going up with just pure group draw luck.

Looks easier than they should be, because many of the teams are out of form. But there is no doubt that Groups A (Spain/Scotland/Norway), B (France/Netherlands/Greece) and C (England/Ukraine/Italy) are extremely tough. On the other hand, competition is not that great in groups J (as a result of poor form from Iceland and Bosnia), I (only Romania and Switzerland are strong teams), E (Albania/Czechia) and H (Only Slovenia and Danmark as strong teams). The only solution for this is to have a second-tier qualification through playoffs for those teams who are ranked 3rd in all the groups (they have this system, but for Euro 2024 only three teams qualify from playoffs).

[swogerino]

Some groups are easier than the others, while there are teams better than leaders of other groups end up being second or even third because they end up in a harder group. Like for example in group D, Turkey is great, Croatia is great and Wales is great, only two of the three will go out, whereas group H for example, Slovenia seems like the best one? That doesn't make sense, any of the three in the group D would lead that group easily if they draw the groups better.

This is why I keep saying that we need to have like some big league, like one league that everyone plays each other just once, I know that would be a lot of games but that would make it fair and everyone would show their true talents and nobody would be going up with just pure group draw luck.

Looks easier than they should be, because many of the teams are out of form. But there is no doubt that Groups A (Spain/Scotland/Norway), B (France/Netherlands/Greece) and C (England/Ukraine/Italy) are extremely tough. On the other hand, competition is not that great in groups J (as a result of poor form from Iceland and Bosnia), I (only Romania and Switzerland are strong teams), E (Albania/Czechia) and H (Only Slovenia and Danmark as strong teams). The only solution for this is to have a second-tier qualification through playoffs for those teams who are ranked 3rd in all the groups (they have this system, but for Euro 2024 only three teams qualify from playoffs).

Most teams when the draw was held were not supposed to top their group like Albania for example as there are Czech Republic and Poland,clearly stronger teams on paper than Albania but what this shows is that there are no more weaker teams from most of Europe,sure there are Gibraltar,Lichtenstein and similar teams who are far from competing though except them I don't know any weaker team from Europe and this is very good overall for European football which shows even weak teams have improved a lot.

[Hvdv]

Some groups are easier than the others, while there are teams better than leaders of other groups end up being second or even third because they end up in a harder group. Like for example in group D, Turkey is great, Croatia is great and Wales is great, only two of the three will go out, whereas group H for example, Slovenia seems like the best one? That doesn't make sense, any of the three in the group D would lead that group easily if they draw the groups better.

This is why I keep saying that we need to have like some big league, like one league that everyone plays each other just once, I know that would be a lot of games but that would make it fair and everyone would show their true talents and nobody would be going up with just pure group draw luck.

Of course, previous country successes are also effective in these draws. Croatia and Wales were matched because they came from the first two places in the group. The expectations were for it to be a less strong country than Turkey, but since Turkey participated in the elimination round from the quota of low-ranking countries, there were suddenly three strong teams in that group. Türkiye participated from the fourth pot in the draw and is currently the group leader. I think there is no other group leader from the fourth pot participating in the eliminations. The teams participating from the fourth pot were Georgia, Greece, Turkey, Kazakhstan, Luxembourg, Azerbaijan, Kosovo, Bulgaria, Faroe Islands and North Macedonia. It was unfortunate for Croatia and Wales that they saw the strongest team in the group.

[Lillominato89]

Some groups are easier than the others, while there are teams better than leaders of other groups end up being second or even third because they end up in a harder group. Like for example in group D, Turkey is great, Croatia is great and Wales is great, only two of the three will go out, whereas group H for example, Slovenia seems like the best one? That doesn't make sense, any of the three in the group D would lead that group easily if they draw the groups better.

This is why I keep saying that we need to have like some big league, like one league that everyone plays each other just once, I know that would be a lot of games but that would make it fair and everyone would show their true talents and nobody would be going up with just pure group draw luck.

or it would be enough to halve the number of groups from 10 to 5 with 3 groups of 11 national teams and 2 groups of 10 national teams. single game and all against all. 4 teams pass in the groups, we will still find ourselves with 20 national teams in the final phase of the tournament

[borovichok]

England defeated Italy 3-1. Hary Kane scored 2 goals and Marcus Rashford scored 1 goal. Harry Kane to give his 61th goal in his 87th appearance with National Team. I wasn't surprised to see England win because the lineup of England it so sensationally good, in the offense were star players like Bellingham, Rashford, Foden and Kane.

Ukraine will take 2nd place in the group while Italy had to drop to 3rd position. Things are not going well for Italy.

England seems to be untouchable this season. England thrashed Italy because there's definitely no competitive squad competent enough to level the fire energy of Gareth Southgate men. Harry Kane, Jude Bellingham and Marcus Rashford was on fire in the game against Italy. They all have good contributions concerning the goals and are outstanding in every game they're featured in. The main objective left for Southgate is to have positive impacts on these players and he will ensured he's able to elevate his team's performance to the next level.

[shogun47]

In the next 10 years, Bellingham may go down in football history like his idol football player Zinédine Zidane. He is a young, fast, dynamic, technical, talented and hardworking football player. He is also a football player open for improvement. He can achieve great success both in the national team and in Real Madrid. Both teams are suitable clubs to achieve success.

And this is all about health. Usually players like Bellingham who are not in between being a talent or a superstar anymore, will go down in history unless they become susceptible to injuries and miss a ton of games. The best example here might be Eden Hazard. That guy would have gone down in history without a doubt if his knee didn't cross his plans and ambitions. Bellingham is too good to just decline in performance and disappear. But health issues can stop a world star talent from becoming a world star and remain a talent.

[Gaza13]

Yes, I agree with what you said about Groups A and B, G, H, I, and J. Yes, in group C I think so too, Italy still has the last 2 matches, North Macedonia, in the next match Italy must win to narrow down the number of points against Ukraine in the standings, if Italy loses against North Macedonia then it's over for Italy . In fact, Ukraine will be more enthusiastic about facing Italy in the next match at the end of the match.

Group D, if you look at Croatia's last 2 matches, Croatia is far superior in winning every match Compared to Wales, Wales in the last match will be against Türkiye. Group E, the top 3 candidates in the team standings, still have a chance to become group winners and group runners-up.

I definitely don't expect Italy to lose to North Macedonia. Macedonia doesn't have much purpose left and I don't think they will give Italy a hard time.

Yes, of course I hope Italy doesn't lose against Macedonia later, this match will remind us all of yesterday's Qatar World Cup Playoff qualifiers, how the Italian team had a good composition of players in various lines and ultimately lost 0-1 which was won by Macedonia at the stadium. Palermo March 25 2022 ago. Will this happen again in the next match, will Macedonia prevent Italy from appearing in Germany, if yes, Italy will be a nightmare for their country.

[karabiber]

In the next 10 years, Bellingham may go down in football history like his idol football player Zinédine Zidane. He is a young, fast, dynamic, technical, talented and hardworking football player. He is also a football player open for improvement. He can achieve great success both in the national team and in Real Madrid. Both teams are suitable clubs to achieve success.

Since the early 90s, we have watched many iconic footballers who have left their mark on world football, who have left very good impressions on our memories and whose names we remember with longing today. We have witnessed their talents and extraordinary periods that we said "only they could do it". However, football has gained a dynamism in a completely different dimension that puts aside nostalgic discourses. Jude Bellingham is one of the most refined footballers this dynamism has produced. He plays very minimally with the ball at his feet, he knows exactly where he needs to be without the ball and his football intelligence, his style of play, his speed, his technique definitely reminds me of Zidane. I think he is a very special footballer.

[Spack17]

I understand people who have doubts Italy first of all. Because they haven't been much convincing in quite many matches so far. Even against Malta their performance wasn't that incredible although the final score was 4-0. We saw them struggling very much against England at the same time.

After all these performances their future in Euro 2024 is dependent on the North Macedonia match first. They have no choice other than winning it.

I know that their last two head-to-heads didn't end up with a win either. But in this critical situation I want to give Italy another chance to make it this time.