New Official AMT Thread

[ISAWHIM]

That is an excellent point about option three they may take the hardware in case of lawsuit.

Unless we were offered some protections against this like it was offered by another company then three becomes less viable.

I retract my wish for three

And with this you said that none of these are considered individual settlements and do not require that we opt out of the class action?

Because if thats the case the class action is the insurance for number 3.

3.Transfer to hosting...

If hosted, the hosted miners are not "AMT property", they would be your property, and thus, protected. (Unless it was done third-party hosting, then it still would not be "something you could lose".)

As for "considered individual settlements" and "opting out of the class action"... If you get something, you would need a new case, would you not? As the class action, I believe is for "non-delivery". From what others have stated. Though, in the end, they will get next to nothing anyways, since the lawyer will take more than 50% of any settlements, if they even win. Hope they don't charge if you lose, but most do. They won't charge for the case, just the time in court, court-costs, and processing fees. They are tricky like that. Chances are, they will lose because they ask for overcompensation, and make you believe they will get it for you, but only end-up getting about half what they ask for, leaving you with about 25% of your original investment. They don't like to actually go to court. They lose there. They are ambulance chasers. xD.

Just ask them how many cases they won in court... Bet the answer is zero... then ask them how many times they were in court... They have to tell you.

[opieum2]

The thing I think everyone here wants to know is the timeline on whatever option is chosen. We all really just want to make sure that its a committed timeline with a reasonable expectation behind it. Everyone has been waiting and for those who have gotten hardware, we are hoping for something that addresses the flaws in our current situation. It might address alot of concerns people have. The most important is to stick to that commitment and provide regular updates on things. Delays CAN be understandable to a point.

[mrpark]

P.S. please pick up my 1.2T miner at FedEx. It's been about 2 weeks that I have been trying to return this miner to you guys.

[tonyca]

AMT,Every week I sent you email for following up and no response at all.
I'm the customer since Nov 12,2013. It's May 4,2014 now.again,can you just simple refund me? and tell me what is your script option?
You can't just ignore customer's inquiry or keep quite for status update. what is my option for 2 miners.


Thanks,
Tony

[subseaguru]

are the 500Gh/s miners working as advertised?

the original design of 2x amt bitmine boards fall short i.e 204*2=408ghs i believe to be down to bitmine saying cards will do 275 ghs. so as per consumer rights amt shipped 3* boards giving grand total of 612ghs nominal currently one board is dragging its heels after lobotomizing it to make it work but its pulling a good 570-600 average so no complaints. ironically mining btc the lobotomized card pulls 150-160ghs but mining bonus coin (bns) it works fine. little special needs card cant compute btc block data as good as it computes smaller packages lol. all in all working well. just the btc price and todays down time of local bitcoins holding roi back.

I appreciate the reply. with all the issues on all manufacturers with the exception of the ant's, i have been somewhat skeptical reluctant to try to make another purchase.

Bear in mind that regtible/mellboro's machine is one of the only confirmed machines that has worked pretty much as advertised out of the box. Hopefully they resolve the issues soon.
The thing that is not going as advertized is delivery so if you are thinking of investing in AMT use only money you are willing to never see again and assume that is what will happen and in the end, maybe you will be pleasantly surprised to have a miner show up on your door step sometime in the distant future.

My advice is as far as the bitcoin mining industry, never pre-order.

words to live by especially in Bitcoin

[rik_khaos]

Alright this some good feedback.

Instead of quoting one by one lets just go over the principle questions one at a time.

Power supply?:

Probably no power supply would given in any of the options, or we'd send the power supply separately to speed things up and make them easier.

If the law suite seized our assets in the future for the hosted solution?: <- great point by the way.

We'd subcontract equipment/hosting to a third party in order to insure that the hosted solution would be safe for our clients which choose to do that.

Do we have hosting setup now?:

No, but through subcontracted hosting friends in the industry we can have it running in about a week.

The klondike option?: Would come with cables, connector, software/raspi, everything except the supply. We really want to get out of the integrated power supply arena, it truly screws the pooch on all fronts.

I'm cool with the no power supply solution as I've got my own if going the hardware route, but with what you just said I think the 1.2 +20% comp is a really solid option. You save shipping cost, you probably get a better deal in bulk. Since it's a company using a lot of electricity they are probably getting a better deal than almost any of us individually. Plus I'm assume the miners are checked and maintained as part of any fees.

I would like to know again if we have the option to log in and point our miner to the pool of our choice of if we are stuck with whatever the subcontracted company wants. Since it's essentially a hosting option for "our" hardware.

Plus I like the idea of being to have it up and running as quickly as possible. I'd be happy to pay the electrical costs with the bitcoin I earn.

For me #3 is looking like the most viable option at the moment.

[RickJamesBTC]

You guys are so fucked. So how can amt offer the option one, of shipping all the miners in a week, if they can't currently ship all the miners?? wtf is the theory behind that?

[rik_khaos]

You guys are so fucked. So how can amt offer the option one, of shipping all the miners in a week, if they can't currently ship all the miners?? wtf is the theory behind that?

my guess is they've been assembling like mad while not communicating to get ahead, or they found some cheap labor at home depot.

But then they have to deal with know faulty hardware. So they can get it out to you, but they can't guarantee it is to work. Which means shipping and RMA issue, but it kicks the can further down the road. It could be they've had some credit extended to them in some sort of business loan, or have found an investor to raise capital.

just my guesses though.

[eightcylinders]

My preferences in order:

#1 but only on two conditions: (A) the problems encountered by others have been fixed, and the miners will operate stably at 1.2 Gh/s (and not kits, we are talking assembled ready to hash miners), and (B) they can be shipped in the next 7 days.  Given that 1 Th/s miners with 1000 watt power draw are shipping for 2600-3000, this is a pretty big step down so I think you still need to consider compensation (see below).

#6 If #1 isn't feasible, and on the same conditions (miners are actually shipping in 7 days, and are stable 70 Mh/s).  Again, I think comp is still an issue.

#4 if #1 and #2 cannot be done within a short period of time, and there really is no other good alternative.

As far as compensation, if AMT wants to continue to stay in business the above do not address compensation at all.  Obviously, if this is essentially a liquidation plan then compensation is moot as you just be delivering what you can.  However, if AMT is going to sell new miners (scrypt or otherwise), you owe it to those of us who (funded) stuck with you all this time to give back some form of compensation even if not just cash.  Even if BTC price had stayed above 700-800, the increased in difficulty (predictable) and the decrease in cost per Gh/s (also predictable) has made the delay cost us more than 60% (e.g, A1-based 1 Th/s miners going for around $3K now plus the loss of mining March - May).   Assuming AMT plans to stay in business, the compensation that would seem feasible could be: (A) additional or more powerful hashing boards provided at cost, when available, and (B) discounts on future miners (e.g., 50% up to $3,500 per 1.2 Th/s miner paid for).

[FrictionlessCoin]

You guys are so fucked. So how can amt offer the option one, of shipping all the miners in a week, if they can't currently ship all the miners?? wtf is the theory behind that?

Yes,  I have no idea how they can even ship all existing miners.  Also when they say 'ship a miner', do they test if it works.  So far the Bitmine based miners have all kinds of technical issues that prevent it from working.

I mean,  I still have a 6,000 brick in my basement that run for over 3 weeks now.  How is that going to be addressed?

[FrictionlessCoin]

2. Receive a different design - which is based on individual smaller miners, not in a case per-say, but similar to a Klondike model instead. Again for the hash rate at the time of purchase.

Would be the best option for those of us with defective hardware. The DIY kits by themselves might work but most of us have defective hardware that would require replacement. Getting flawed designs immediately as number 1 option just is not workable as no one yet has a single working miner that did not have defects. If the new design is properly QA tested, it seems like it would be more viable. Could you elaborate more on what the new design consists of? And how long the wait to get it?

+1  I agree,  the current design is hopelessly broken.  I doubt they will ever work.

I got mine, and it is still doing nothing.   

[regtable69]

As unprofessional as this one is about to be, we'd like to get some opinions from the community because the majority of you seem to understand our situation to a degree. Also most of the current thread members have stuck in there, and we know that others which supported us once are most likely still watching, just to see what happens in end. We believe the majority of you knew we had everyone's best interest at heart and never meant for things to go this far south. You've also seen the many curve balls that have been thrown our way and can understand where were at. Others just think we're FOS and want to sue. Either way, it is what it is.  

As transparent as we'd like to be and scream to the world as to why some work and some don't its not the legal moment for that, but it will come in due time. It's not Bitmine's fault if that's anyone's thought btw. We still love those swiss bastards despite their lack of support due to their shit storm. Below are some options we're thinking about offering and above all we are trying to keep it as uncomplicated and as simple as possible. Some of them help us stay in business (like transferring to hosting) others take us quickly out of business, like immediate refunds. In the end we'll choose what seems most viable and whats best for the group. Some of you have helped our company find the answers to problems we didn't see by reading your posts, others have contributed great ideas and advice that made the drawing board/game plan but that were never implement due to the simple factor of too much to accomplish with not enough people and the strategic curve ball or protagonist popping up each week. Some of the members have harassed us, bullied us and tainted our name on google to the point where if you search our company all you'll find is "Scam this and Bitcoin that". Others have spent hours on the phone with us  consulting us and discussing the situation to the point where clear logical objectives became apparent, while others drank with us in person, picked up their miners and helped even further there after knowing where we are at, despite the fact they may have lost. These characteristics of some of these community members counter the loathed trolls that still bother us to this day. All in all, we value you're opinions, and appreciate those of you which have stuck in this with us this far, and please know it won't be forgotten.  It is because of those individuals that we wont declare bankruptcy to get out of a lawsuit, that we'll fight to stay in this and that we'll continue to do our best to triumph in the end.

In most cases these hypothetical options would apply to all customers as a choice. (Again we'd just like to get our client's reactions and what may seem satisfactory)

1. Receive your miner immediately - with a 1.2hash rate or maybe a bit more. Immediately being end of this week.
2. Receive a different design - which is based on individual smaller miners, not in a case per-say, but similar to a Klondike model instead. Again for the hash rate at the time of purchase.
3.Transfer to hosting - order's/miner's to hosted option with a 20% increase, electric being billed monthly or deducted from earning, which would be again be a somewhat immediate (week or so) delivery.
4. Opt in payback. For a 6 month payback program if your order is for 2 miners or less. 12 months if your order is for 3 miners or more. Receiving a check each month for the fractionated amount in suggestion or btc each month for the amount of btc you paid.
5. Receive chips + 10. ie - if your miner was a 1.2th you would receive 50 A1 chips. <- we don't expect many to choose that one and if several do then it may counter previous options.
6. Trade in for script. - If we launched sales of a 10-11k script miner with a 70m hash rate with a 7 day delivery, your orders monetary credit would be applied to that from a price point perspective. With the choice to hold that option as the price decreases in time of course.

Yes the above options are not glamorous, and it wont end in a settlement for 3-4 times your original investment as expected, but neither will the suit which is why we push those negative individuals towards it anyway, because you cant get blood from a stone no matter how hard you hit it. But these are feasible realistic options based on our current fiscal situation, on the market's conditions and on the connections we've made along the way which are willing to help us pull through and stick around, because they too still know what we're capable of if we can get our heads above water. And if we're all fucked anyway due to market conditions and current pricing based on consumer demand, than strategic partnerships encompassing something similar to Nash's game theory, may be the only means of mutual success, and we'll just have to create new markets.

great ideas amt seems you and the cheifs have had a pow wow and come up with some good solutions for all. have you come up with rma&/mpp programmes yet?

hang in there josh & the team.
reg

[Squeeky62]

Actually if you don't have any power supplies coming with the machine, I think I would just take a refund because I can't afford to have my machine not complete.

[mrpark]

I think hosting is a good idea, unless there is some catch like electricity AND a hosting fee. If a board were to go bad, I would assume they could have someone come out and replace the board, better yet, if a board went down you could just credit our account for the downtime of the board. I try to subscribe to hosting with a variety vendors, just because I don't want to put all the eggs in one basket. At some point, you could just rent out the Th/s and not really have each miner owned by each client, I think this would be a smart way of doing things to buy, sell and trade Th/s. I know other vendors offer something like this, but I don't find the method being transparent enough for me.

I am also one of the ones who bought in Dec of 2013. It is now May 2014. Today, a you can buy a brand new 1.4Th/s miner for only $4,000.  As I see it, every customer who ordered a 1.2Th/s miner has already lost $2,000+ for each miner. We took a chance on your company when buying this miner, and I hope you can do something to redeem our confidence soon.

I would also be interested in hearing about the MPP.

[mrpark]

AMT, will you pick up my RMA today? Any By the way, what is a "Script" Miner?  Does it mine batch files or something? Or do you mean a "Scrypt" Miner?

[opieum2]

I think hosting is a good idea, unless there is some catch like electricity AND a hosting fee. If a board were to go bad, I would assume they could have someone come out and replace the board, better yet, if a board went down you could just credit our account for the downtime of the board. I try to subscribe to hosting with a variety vendors, just because I don't want to put all the eggs in one basket. At some point, you could just rent out the Th/s and not really have each miner owned by each client, I think this would be a smart way of doing things to buy, sell and trade Th/s. I know other vendors offer something like this, but I don't find the method being transparent enough for me.

I am also one of the ones who bought in Dec of 2013. It is now May 2014. Today, a you can buy a brand new 1.4Th/s miner for only $4,000.  As I see it, every customer who ordered a 1.2Th/s miner has already lost $2,000+ for each miner. We took a chance on your company when buying this miner, and I hope you can do something to redeem our confidence soon.

I would also be interested in hearing about the MPP.

I guess AMT has conveniently forgotten this tiny detail in their latest proposal.

The MPP is important because that was the advertising hook to buy AMT's products. At the end of the day if they get things together and do provide the technobit boards, that would be a nice change of pace for us and for them to be able to properly fulfil their obligations in that regard.

We need fully working, validated and hashing miners at 1.2Ths in complete form that should be described in detail so that we know what we are getting (and actually get that instead of another comprimise)

And the MPP needs to be honored as well as there was clearly a massive delay for everyone. Some of us got hardware in various degrees of working order. Most failed within the first few days of just having it hashing. All in all various delays. The hosting option is ok, but with paying electrical on that seems kinda silly. Better for us to host the hardware in a facility near us and just pay the fixed rates that are charged by a datacenter. As there are not alot of details on each option its hard to say which is best at this time. But I am all for a hardware refresh if technobit hardware is involved. Seems like it would be a much better way to go and I think would satisfy alot of people on here. We appreciate the additional communications and hope to see a timeline on things so we have an expectation and actual results.

[FrictionlessCoin]

I think hosting is a good idea, unless there is some catch like electricity AND a hosting fee. If a board were to go bad, I would assume they could have someone come out and replace the board, better yet, if a board went down you could just credit our account for the downtime of the board. I try to subscribe to hosting with a variety vendors, just because I don't want to put all the eggs in one basket. At some point, you could just rent out the Th/s and not really have each miner owned by each client, I think this would be a smart way of doing things to buy, sell and trade Th/s. I know other vendors offer something like this, but I don't find the method being transparent enough for me.

I am also one of the ones who bought in Dec of 2013. It is now May 2014. Today, a you can buy a brand new 1.4Th/s miner for only $4,000.  As I see it, every customer who ordered a 1.2Th/s miner has already lost $2,000+ for each miner. We took a chance on your company when buying this miner, and I hope you can do something to redeem our confidence soon.

I would also be interested in hearing about the MPP.

I guess AMT has conveniently forgotten this tiny detail in their latest proposal.

The MPP is important because that was the advertising hook to buy AMT's products. At the end of the day if they get things together and do provide the technobit boards, that would be a nice change of pace for us and for them to be able to properly fulfil their obligations in that regard.

We need fully working, validated and hashing miners at 1.2Ths in complete form that should be described in detail so that we know what we are getting (and actually get that instead of another comprimise)

And the MPP needs to be honored as well as there was clearly a massive delay for everyone. Some of us got hardware in various degrees of working order. Most failed within the first few days of just having it hashing. All in all various delays. The hosting option is ok, but with paying electrical on that seems kinda silly. Better for us to host the hardware in a facility near us and just pay the fixed rates that are charged by a datacenter. As there are not alot of details on each option its hard to say which is best at this time. But I am all for a hardware refresh if technobit hardware is involved. Seems like it would be a much better way to go and I think would satisfy alot of people on here. We appreciate the additional communications and hope to see a timeline on things so we have an expectation and actual results.

I think if we were all to be realistic, AMT will never be able fulfill its obligations of the MPP.  

I however am interesting in a settlement were I am able to exit this fiasco with the minimum amount of damages.  In the event AMT is unwilling to settle, then I am within my rights to demand that the MPP obligation be fulfilled.

So far I am still at a massive loss given that the hardware they've shipped isn't working and therefore not worth anything to anyone.

[mrpark]

I think hosting is a good idea, unless there is some catch like electricity AND a hosting fee. If a board were to go bad, I would assume they could have someone come out and replace the board, better yet, if a board went down you could just credit our account for the downtime of the board. I try to subscribe to hosting with a variety vendors, just because I don't want to put all the eggs in one basket. At some point, you could just rent out the Th/s and not really have each miner owned by each client, I think this would be a smart way of doing things to buy, sell and trade Th/s. I know other vendors offer something like this, but I don't find the method being transparent enough for me.

I am also one of the ones who bought in Dec of 2013. It is now May 2014. Today, a you can buy a brand new 1.4Th/s miner for only $4,000.  As I see it, every customer who ordered a 1.2Th/s miner has already lost $2,000+ for each miner. We took a chance on your company when buying this miner, and I hope you can do something to redeem our confidence soon.

I would also be interested in hearing about the MPP.

I guess AMT has conveniently forgotten this tiny detail in their latest proposal.

The MPP is important because that was the advertising hook to buy AMT's products. At the end of the day if they get things together and do provide the technobit boards, that would be a nice change of pace for us and for them to be able to properly fulfil their obligations in that regard.

We need fully working, validated and hashing miners at 1.2Ths in complete form that should be described in detail so that we know what we are getting (and actually get that instead of another comprimise)

And the MPP needs to be honored as well as there was clearly a massive delay for everyone. Some of us got hardware in various degrees of working order. Most failed within the first few days of just having it hashing. All in all various delays. The hosting option is ok, but with paying electrical on that seems kinda silly. Better for us to host the hardware in a facility near us and just pay the fixed rates that are charged by a datacenter. As there are not alot of details on each option its hard to say which is best at this time. But I am all for a hardware refresh if technobit hardware is involved. Seems like it would be a much better way to go and I think would satisfy alot of people on here. We appreciate the additional communications and hope to see a timeline on things so we have an expectation and actual results.

I think if we were all to be realistic, AMT will never be able fulfill its obligations of the MPP.  

I however am interesting in a settlement were I am able to exit this fiasco with the minimum amount of damages.  In the event AMT is unwilling to settle, then I am within my rights to demand that the MPP obligation be fulfilled.

So far I am still at a massive loss given that the hardware they've shipped isn't working and therefore not worth anything to anyone.

+1

[tonyca]

AMT,Every week I sent you email for following up and no response at all.
I'm the customer since Nov 12,2013. It's May 4,2014 now.again,can you just simple refund me? and tell me what is your script option?
You can't just ignore customer's inquiry or keep quite for status update. what is my option for 2 miners.


Thanks,
Tony

AMT_miners,

I waited half a year now. still nothing. Can you just simply refund me?please just kindly and simply refund my money to my Bitcoin account as currently market rates of Bitpay for both miners to following address:
1KS9rRw6uv7mptjEVhBHYMtGKK2QfWVju4.   I post in forum,hope you can response here or email me the response.
and what is the deadline for this.

Thank you.
Tony

[opieum2]

Some interesting news from the general mining community at large. Covering a broad range of the mining issues so in one sense we are not completely unique in our situation in some aspects.
http://www.coindesk.com/coindesk-mining-roundup-hot-issues-lawsuits-eco-mining/