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Author Topic: New Official AMT Thread  (Read 149176 times)
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June 03, 2014, 08:54:51 AM
 #1761

Great to some people trying to help the situation i havent read everything yet but glad theres some headway being made. Still have a fully operational miner from day one working well. Only slight adjustnents were made using the method provided by amt regarding dpot values to optimise the cards.

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June 03, 2014, 10:01:44 AM
Last edit: June 03, 2014, 10:12:14 AM by FrictionlessCoin
 #1762

The part where plaintiff's counsel has directly threatened to file a motion in order to stop all of our business operations all together unless we settle with all clients via their class action suite. That's why we can longer discuss person order situations,refund options or settlement options via this forum or our public site.

So the motion hasn't been filed? So there is nothing actually stopping your business. You're simply taking the easy route by not delivering miners and not providing refunds.

My thoughts exactly.   The business has yet to be forced to shut down,  but AMT has not been operating for over a month now?

Apparently, the working boards are sitting in IMET's premises but AMT refuses to pay the cash to get them.  

Meanwhile, a whole bunch of customers have yet to even receive miners that they purchased.




Really?



This is what we do at night, (that was taken 5 minutes ago Carlos) we remove A1 chips from IMET produced boards, because yes, IMET is holding hostage all of the previously ordered boards, chips, and components. And I guess now they are holding the answer to how to make them work too. Aside from ordering brand new (2 ounce) boards, which was their suggestion at the end of march (another 60k easy) when we discovered there was too little copper (1 ounce) in the first 900 boards they ordered for us, after Giorgio asked every dumbass question in the book after asking all the intelligent one in order to figure out why they weren't working. No we don't think they've done anything new or different in order to make them work.And if they manage to show one working, they need to showing it working for a week. All miner assembly was held in their facility. There is no way to test a board without mounting it to a heat sink.

The design team, a reference from IMET were the designers we paid to design the rig, which they botched the first time around yes, and then again the second time around as well. Maybe third times the charm.

Why wouldn't they give us the answer to making the boards work so that we could continue the production in their facility instead of moving someplace else. Or why wouldn't they give the answer to their client who had a class action filed against them?  We had paid them almost a quarter of a million by that point, and we got nothing in return. Who in their right mind would continue to pay for such service?

The mistake was ours, and ours alone. We chose the wrong place to manufacturer plain and simple. We went to a different manufacturer 30 miles away, and we are now manufacture working boards there.


My comment about AMT not operating is based on the complete absence of technical support or after-sales support.

So at this time, it is known that 900 boards were ordered but you did not provide all the ASICs for the 900 boards.  How many asics did you provide?   900 boards with 6 boards per system (not the 5 that you delivered) appears to imply that you had orders for 150 miners.    $5,500 per miner implies that you have collected $825,000 from customers.

How much of the $825,000 does AMT have left?  Why did you not use this money to refund customers who requested a refund?  You know you were massively delayed by flawed manufacturing,  why did you not refund customers?  Why are you holding customers money hostage to make sure you can finally get your manufacturing corrected?

So how is it that you order 900 boards from a supplier but most of them aren't working?  Did you bother to do a test batch prior to ordering 900 boards?  

What kind of testing did IMET perform to validate the board prior to shipment?


This is such a mess.  Why did you not have designs from Bitmine?  Did IMET have to come up with a new design?

   


 
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June 03, 2014, 11:18:19 AM
 #1763

Again, we apologies but we can't discuss those things on a public forum. Please keep the conversation to more technical approach about future products or solving issues with current ones.
Ok, considering as per last published the A1 has a max current of 20a per chip, if you want to save real estate and a bit of over all cost look at these from Intersil for Vcore regulators http://www.intersil.com/content/dam/Intersil/documents/isl8/isl8240m.pdf

Combines the regulator chip, mosfets, diodes, & buck inductor all into one 17x17mm chip. 4 can power an 8 chip A1 board either feeding each chip individually or feeding 4 pairs of A1's.

Straightforward & simple 2 resistor voltage programing - no dpot/tpot i2c coms needed & much much more. Combine with a TLam pcb and you can have one very hash-dense lil' power block...

btw: That is one excellently done data sheet. Everything spelled out. Wonder how much stuff like that was followed on the older boards...

Techy enough?

reserved for future consideration.

Question though,  what is the i2c coms for?  I thought A1 communicated via SPI?

 
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June 03, 2014, 11:19:59 AM
 #1764

Great to some people trying to help the situation i havent read everything yet but glad theres some headway being made. Still have a fully operational miner from day one working well. Only slight adjustnents were made using the method provided by amt regarding dpot values to optimise the cards.

IMET the manufacturer seems to claim that they have 100% working boards!

 
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June 03, 2014, 11:21:42 AM
 #1765

(snip)

The mistake was ours, and ours alone. We chose the wrong place to manufacturer plain and simple. We went to a different manufacturer 30 miles away, and we are now manufacture working boards there.



Again another claim of working boards.  What then is the ETA?

 
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June 03, 2014, 11:29:30 AM
 #1766



ROFL

"42 units available for April 1st, 2014 shipment."

https://advancedminers.com/bitcoin-mining-hardware/amt-2-4ths-bitcoin-miner/

You cant make stuff up like that.

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June 03, 2014, 12:11:27 PM
 #1767



How much of the $825,000 does AMT have left?  Why did you not use this money to refund customers who requested a refund?  You know you were massively delayed by flawed manufacturing,  why did you not refund customers?  Why are you holding customers money hostage to make sure you can finally get your manufacturing corrected?

The only real logical conclusion is they under capitalized the business and as such probably used the lions share of any pre-order money on start up and daily operating costs.  Using any "left over" money for refunds likely would have killed the business altogether (read: left them cashless with massive liabilities and no way to pay them..) and left them no new way to generate "profit" which they need to have in order to start making restitution. 

This is the problem companies run into when they spend the "profit" before they have made any...  Now the only option they have is to try and stay in business to make "new" profits to pay back the old profit they spent but didn't actually fucking earn.  They're behind the 8 ball in a big way now and are scrambling and grasping at straws.  They are bleeding cash like a stuck pig at this point, no new revenue is coming in and liabilities are piling up  by the day.  It's hard to see how anything less than an infusion of NEW and ACTUAL capital will right the SS Minnow at this point.

I really don't know any of the technical product stuff but from a strictly business POV it is hard to see how a company like AMT can turn this around.  Honest to goodness companies with real business skills (which AMT doesn't appear to have) fail EVERYDAY.  AMT has shown at every opportunity that they are completely incompetent and I believe there is approximately a 0% chance they have the skill and mind set to turn this around.

All they are doing is delaying the inevitable and making things worse for themselves.  The writing is on the wall and one way or another sooner or later the AMT ship is sunk.  If they were smart business men the only thing they would be doing is figuring out where they can get cash (read: selling personal assets) to pay back their initial investomers.  Until this is done, using a single nickel on the "new" business model is tantamount to fraud.  If they somehow managed to pay back everyone then and only then would it be time for them to invest more of their own fucking money to produce a stock product to sell in the future.  That way they are the ones taking the risk and the company can pay them back when and if it ever can and not the fucking customers...

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June 03, 2014, 01:14:00 PM
Last edit: June 03, 2014, 01:24:32 PM by FrictionlessCoin
 #1768



How much of the $825,000 does AMT have left?  Why did you not use this money to refund customers who requested a refund?  You know you were massively delayed by flawed manufacturing,  why did you not refund customers?  Why are you holding customers money hostage to make sure you can finally get your manufacturing corrected?

The only real logical conclusion is they under capitalized the business and as such probably used the lions share of any pre-order money on start up and daily operating costs.  Using any "left over" money for refunds likely would have killed the business altogether (read: left them cashless with massive liabilities and no way to pay them..) and left them no new way to generate "profit" which they need to have in order to start making restitution.  

This is the problem companies run into when they spend the "profit" before they have made any...  Now the only option they have is to try and stay in business to make "new" profits to pay back the old profit they spent but didn't actually fucking earn.  They're behind the 8 ball in a big way now and are scrambling and grasping at straws.  They are bleeding cash like a stuck pig at this point, no new revenue is coming in and liabilities are piling up  by the day.  It's hard to see how anything less than an infusion of NEW and ACTUAL capital will right the SS Minnow at this point.

I really don't know any of the technical product stuff but from a strictly business POV it is hard to see how a company like AMT can turn this around.  Honest to goodness companies with real business skills (which AMT doesn't appear to have) fail EVERYDAY.  AMT has shown at every opportunity that they are completely incompetent and I believe there is approximately a 0% chance they have the skill and mind set to turn this around.

All they are doing is delaying the inevitable and making things worse for themselves.  The writing is on the wall and one way or another sooner or later the AMT ship is sunk.  If they were smart business men the only thing they would be doing is figuring out where they can get cash (read: selling personal assets) to pay back their initial investomers.  Until this is done, using a single nickel on the "new" business model is tantamount to fraud.  If they somehow managed to pay back everyone then and only then would it be time for them to invest more of their own fucking money to produce a stock product to sell in the future.  That way they are the ones taking the risk and the company can pay them back when and if it ever can and not the fucking customers...

Agree entirely with your comments.

Around $825,000 was raised... likely in BTC when BTC was trading at over $800.  So roughly 1,000 BTC.  I speculate that AMT kept that money in Bitcoin.   That 1,000 BTC fortunately is now worth $660,000.  If  I recall correctly, 260K was spent on manufacturing.  So that leaves around $400,000 left.   Where is that $400,000?   There are supposed 150 miners sold so that means $2666 per miner should be available for refunds.

I would expect that the class action lawyers to shut down this company after the June 10th deadline.  Acquire all remaining assets (particularly those still in BTC) and distribute the proceeds to all customers.

This notion of delivering Technobit boards from asic chips salvaged from dead AMT boards isn't going to leave customers whole.   What the heck are they thinking?  

Also it appears that AMT also owes IMET money based on a bouncing check.  Is this not breach of contract here?

Finally,  did AMT ever send an email to all of its customers explaining delays?  No.  Not once did AMT email customers informing them of a delay of their shipment.   It is already 3 months since the expected delivery date, yet AMT is keeping all its customers in the dark.   

 
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June 03, 2014, 02:11:45 PM
 #1769

Again, we apologies but we can't discuss those things on a public forum. Please keep the conversation to more technical approach about future products or solving issues with current ones.
Ok, considering as per last published the A1 has a max current of 20a per chip, if you want to save real estate and a bit of over all cost look at these from Intersil for Vcore regulators http://www.intersil.com/content/dam/Intersil/documents/isl8/isl8240m.pdf

Combines the regulator chip, mosfets, diodes, & buck inductor all into one 17x17mm chip. 4 can power an 8 chip A1 board either feeding each chip individually or feeding 4 pairs of A1's.

Straightforward & simple 2 resistor voltage programing - no dpot/tpot i2c coms needed & much much more. Combine with a TLam pcb and you can have one very hash-dense lil' power block...

btw: That is one excellently done data sheet. Everything spelled out. Wonder how much stuff like that was followed on the older boards...

Techy enough?

reserved for future consideration.

Question though,  what is the i2c coms for?  I thought A1 communicated via SPI?
The A1 uses SPI for on-board hashing data coms, the system uses i2c for initialization of settings and possibly more. Just got some of the design info so have not looked into it yet fully. Opium should know since it has to be programmed...

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June 03, 2014, 02:32:28 PM
 #1770

Again, we apologies but we can't discuss those things on a public forum. Please keep the conversation to more technical approach about future products or solving issues with current ones.
Ok, considering as per last published the A1 has a max current of 20a per chip, if you want to save real estate and a bit of over all cost look at these from Intersil for Vcore regulators http://www.intersil.com/content/dam/Intersil/documents/isl8/isl8240m.pdf

Combines the regulator chip, mosfets, diodes, & buck inductor all into one 17x17mm chip. 4 can power an 8 chip A1 board either feeding each chip individually or feeding 4 pairs of A1's.

Straightforward & simple 2 resistor voltage programing - no dpot/tpot i2c coms needed & much much more. Combine with a TLam pcb and you can have one very hash-dense lil' power block...

btw: That is one excellently done data sheet. Everything spelled out. Wonder how much stuff like that was followed on the older boards...

Techy enough?

reserved for future consideration.

Question though,  what is the i2c coms for?  I thought A1 communicated via SPI?
The A1 uses SPI for on-board hashing data coms, the system uses i2c for initialization of settings and possibly more. Just got some of the design info so have not looked into it yet fully. Opium should know since it has to be programmed...

So there is both an I2C and SPI interface into the board from the Rhaspberry Pi?   The I2C is for stuff like voltage and clock speed?   Is the I2C interface part of the reference board design for the A1?

Man, I wish there was a high density open source solution for this.  That way we don't need to rely on these crappy vendors.   


 
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June 03, 2014, 04:08:54 PM
 #1771

AMT_Miners,

I'll tell you what, I'll drop my smack talk if you give me your 2.4TH/s miner; in exchange for this junky miner you gave me.

When do you want me to come down, and exchange?


~Casey
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June 03, 2014, 04:55:28 PM
 #1772

AMT_Miners,

I'll tell you what, I'll drop my smack talk if you give me your 2.4TH/s miner; in exchange for this junky miner you gave me.

When do you want me to come down, and exchange?

~Casey
Once the legal proceedings started there is NOTHING that can or will be done outside of the courts permission. That specifically covers individual agreed settlements between AMT and its customers unless it is the result of a different suit. All we can do is wait until either a settlement or verdict comes down. Welcome to the world of class-actions.

For bitcoin to succeed the community must police itself - Joshua Zipkin aka Joshua Alexander leaked AMT A1 miner skype chats
How a miner mfgr SHOULD operate: HaggsFIN trip to Canaan My info useful? Donations welcome! 1Fuzzyk398kDWVjuC5qPX5v6CjSkvbgAbd
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June 03, 2014, 05:15:14 PM
 #1773

AMT_Miners,

I'll tell you what, I'll drop my smack talk if you give me your 2.4TH/s miner; in exchange for this junky miner you gave me.

When do you want me to come down, and exchange?

~Casey
Once the legal proceedings started there is NOTHING that can or will be done outside of the courts permission. That specifically covers individual agreed settlements between AMT and its customers unless it is the result of a different suit. All we can do is wait until either a settlement or verdict comes down. Welcome to the world of class-actions.

Are you certain about your statement?

AMT as a business can continue to operate.  Unless there indeed is a freeze of their assets (which I have not heard of).  

If your statement is indeed true,  I would think that AMT should inform the entire customer base that they aren't allowed to operate.  

 
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June 03, 2014, 05:18:34 PM
 #1774

AMT_Miners,

I'll tell you what, I'll drop my smack talk if you give me your 2.4TH/s miner; in exchange for this junky miner you gave me.

When do you want me to come down, and exchange?

~Casey
Once the legal proceedings started there is NOTHING that can or will be done outside of the courts permission. That specifically covers individual agreed settlements between AMT and its customers unless it is the result of a different suit. All we can do is wait until either a settlement or verdict comes down. Welcome to the world of class-actions.

I am pretty sure the 2.4Th/s are going to have the same problems with overheating, not enough copper, bad components, rebooting etc..

There is no evidence that these even exist despite the claim by AMT to have 42 of them available in stock and ready to ship.

Matter of fact,  Bitmine is still prototyping the 2.4 TH/s system.  So how is it possible that AMT has a product that came out at least a month prior to Bitmine's announcement?

AMT's manufacturer IMET had stopped shipping them product since March when AMT sent a bounced check.   In fact AMT wasn't even aware until yesterday that IMET had in fact working products of the design!

 
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June 03, 2014, 05:28:24 PM
 #1775

AMT_Miners,

I'll tell you what, I'll drop my smack talk if you give me your 2.4TH/s miner; in exchange for this junky miner you gave me.

When do you want me to come down, and exchange?

~Casey
Once the legal proceedings started there is NOTHING that can or will be done outside of the courts permission. That specifically covers individual agreed settlements between AMT and its customers unless it is the result of a different suit. All we can do is wait until either a settlement or verdict comes down. Welcome to the world of class-actions.

I am pretty sure the 2.4Th/s are going to have the same problems with overheating, not enough copper, bad components, rebooting etc..

There is no evidence that these even exist despite the claim by AMT to have 42 of them available in stock and ready to ship.

Matter of fact,  Bitmine is still prototyping the 2.4 TH/s system.  So how is it possible that AMT has a product that came out at least a month prior to Bitmine's announcement?

AMT's manufacturer IMET had stopped shipping them product since March when AMT sent a bounced check.   In fact AMT wasn't even aware until yesterday that IMET had in fact working products of the design!


I don't see how these would work. The 1.2T (Really 1T miner) takes 1500W! so a 2.4T would have to take 3000W! I don't see how they could accomplish this, 2 power supplies would be a messy solution although I've done it before...

Well Bitmine has a 2.4 TH/s product.  However it is a totall new design:

http://bitmine.ch/coincraft-rig-updates-now-production/

 
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June 03, 2014, 05:45:02 PM
 #1776

based on Bitmine.ch blogpost it looks like they are sending refunds to customers. How is it that AMT can be an authorized reseller of bitmine, yet AMT shunned it's customers when it came to refunds? 

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June 04, 2014, 12:25:55 AM
Last edit: June 04, 2014, 02:43:50 PM by NotFuzzyWarm
 #1777

Well then, should buyers also sue Bitmine?  Should we demand from Bitmine working units because their 'authorized reseller' has not delivered working units?

Worth a try.  Send them an email demanding that working boards be sent.
I've said all along that if legal action is taken Bitmine.ch should be a part of it. All the rights & wrongs of the pre-order model aside it was the delays in Bitmine's A1 chip production itself not to mention Bitmine's wildly over optomistic production/delivery projections that upset the apple cart so badly. They set the stage for what was to follow for all players involved. AMT included.

From what little I've seen of the timeline from announcement/taking pre-orders for A1 systems from Bitmine much less AMT even if everything went 100% right with the A1's conception and birth process there is no way anyone could move a new design through GF fast enough to hit those targets. Get 1st spin chips made - yes. Characterize what was given birth to much less come up with an at least workable 8-chip board as well? Much less an entire system done right to deal with the unexpected power/thermal issues? Then source all the parts (that you just now determined the values of)? Say oh, high kw PSU's - that's gonna put a huge dent in the world's supply chain for a bit... So in short, anintagonna happen.

Bitmine *may* have had a very basic board designed to run it but it could have hardly been ready to take what the A1 would really put it through.

C'mon folks, how many times we gotta say read the A1 dev thread to know the timelines! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=294235.0

It does not excuse what has happened but at least it gives a picture of just how screwed up the promised sales/delivery dates were. Date primarily set by Bitmine.ch. Not like AMT or other Authorized Distributors are gonna have miners before them.

For bitcoin to succeed the community must police itself - Joshua Zipkin aka Joshua Alexander leaked AMT A1 miner skype chats
How a miner mfgr SHOULD operate: HaggsFIN trip to Canaan My info useful? Donations welcome! 1Fuzzyk398kDWVjuC5qPX5v6CjSkvbgAbd
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June 04, 2014, 07:07:19 PM
 #1778

Completely agree with the above statement.
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June 04, 2014, 10:29:13 PM
 #1779

I was making a general point.  Anyone of any groups could be dirty...

"amtminers scam joshua zipkin scammer"
-Joshua Zipkin leaked skype chats http://bit.ly/1s7U2Yb
-For bitcoin to succeed the community must police itself.
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June 04, 2014, 11:10:59 PM
 #1780

Why delete my post and leave his?

Because he is a client that tries to help resolve the issue and further the business if possible, he understands the situation and while taking an unbiased standpoint even he looks at the facts.
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