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Author Topic: [ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11  (Read 563289 times)
learminer
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July 11, 2014, 09:15:55 AM
 #3401

I agree with pretty much everything Alphi said.

I also posted on the Karmashares forum on this topic. Just to make my voice heard here too, here's the tl;dr - I don't like the idea

Karma is - for all the advantages and disadvantages it brings - a "billion coin". It is one of the defining aspects of the coin. Keep it that way, please!

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socoban
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July 11, 2014, 09:44:24 AM
 #3402

Securing Karma's BTC market with a reverse split

Please let us know your opinion at http://karmashares.com/forums/index.php?topic=463.0

I am against reverse-split. The reason is simple, BTC market is fine, price decline stopped. Nobody is selling now. There is a huge buy order at 3 satoshi. Yesterday was dumped last cheap Karma. It is impossible to buy KARMA at 250 litoshi now. So, why you want to do that? It is much much easier to grow from 3 satoshi to 30 satoshi than from 3000 satoshi to 30000 satoshi. We need trade volume, trade volume will come, when price will go up. Right now, people are holding and buying. Dumpers finished dumping. KARM can be first billion coin to succeed. Doge will die, KARMA can take its place now. Every reverse-split will make chaos, lot of work, lot of problems and if there is really not a very serious reason for that, do not do that. Karma is fine and on uptrend again.
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July 11, 2014, 10:05:03 AM
 #3403

Securing Karma's BTC market with a reverse split

Please let us know your opinion at http://karmashares.com/forums/index.php?topic=463.0

I am against reverse-split. The reason is simple, BTC market is fine, price decline stopped. Nobody is selling now. There is a huge buy order at 3 satoshi. Yesterday was dumped last cheap Karma. It is impossible to buy KARMA at 250 litoshi now. So, why you want to do that? It is much much easier to grow from 3 satoshi to 30 satoshi than from 3000 satoshi to 30000 satoshi. We need trade volume, trade volume will come, when price will go up. Right now, people are holding and buying. Dumpers finished dumping. KARM can be first billion coin to succeed. Doge will die, KARMA can take its place now. Every reverse-split will make chaos, lot of work, lot of problems and if there is really not a very serious reason for that, do not do that. Karma is fine and on uptrend again.

Actually the price decline stopped and reversed within an hour of the poll being created. Look at the timing of the trades. Admittedly that only reflects the opinions of a few people, mine included.

Vote to get Karma listed on this exchange: https://hitbtc.com/vote (sign up to get a vote for 10 points, vote once every 24 hrs)
socoban
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July 11, 2014, 10:12:08 AM
 #3404

Securing Karma's BTC market with a reverse split

Please let us know your opinion at http://karmashares.com/forums/index.php?topic=463.0

I am against reverse-split. The reason is simple, BTC market is fine, price decline stopped. Nobody is selling now. There is a huge buy order at 3 satoshi. Yesterday was dumped last cheap Karma. It is impossible to buy KARMA at 250 litoshi now. So, why you want to do that? It is much much easier to grow from 3 satoshi to 30 satoshi than from 3000 satoshi to 30000 satoshi. We need trade volume, trade volume will come, when price will go up. Right now, people are holding and buying. Dumpers finished dumping. KARM can be first billion coin to succeed. Doge will die, KARMA can take its place now. Every reverse-split will make chaos, lot of work, lot of problems and if there is really not a very serious reason for that, do not do that. Karma is fine and on uptrend again.

Actually the price decline stopped and reversed within an hour of the poll being created. Look at the timing of the trades.

LOL:) this is nuts:) Do you really think someone will throw 15 BTC buy order on KARMA based on some poll? HAHAHAHA. That guy with those BTC was playing with them for many days. He placed BUY order at 3 satoshi few days ago. It was like 15 BTC volume. It was filled, so he was trying to buy for 20 BTC at 2 satoshi. Nobody was selling at 2 satoshi, so he lifted half of buy orders at 2 and was waiting and hoping to buy cheap. Nobody was selling, very few dumpers dumped at 200 litoshi. Than he realized dumping is over and it is buy time. Don't be silly to think he placed that order based on some stupid thread post about reverse-split poll. It was just a result of low volume sell pressure.
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July 11, 2014, 10:14:21 AM
 #3405

Securing Karma's BTC market with a reverse split

Please let us know your opinion at http://karmashares.com/forums/index.php?topic=463.0

I am against reverse-split. The reason is simple, BTC market is fine, price decline stopped. Nobody is selling now. There is a huge buy order at 3 satoshi. Yesterday was dumped last cheap Karma. It is impossible to buy KARMA at 250 litoshi now. So, why you want to do that? It is much much easier to grow from 3 satoshi to 30 satoshi than from 3000 satoshi to 30000 satoshi. We need trade volume, trade volume will come, when price will go up. Right now, people are holding and buying. Dumpers finished dumping. KARM can be first billion coin to succeed. Doge will die, KARMA can take its place now. Every reverse-split will make chaos, lot of work, lot of problems and if there is really not a very serious reason for that, do not do that. Karma is fine and on uptrend again.

Actually the price decline stopped and reversed within an hour of the poll being created. Look at the timing of the trades.

LOL:) this is nuts:) Do you really think someone will throw 15 BTC buy order on KARMA based on some poll? HAHAHAHA. That guy with those BTC was playing with them for many days. He placed BUY order at 3 satoshi few days ago. It was like 15 BTC volume. It was filled, so he was trying to buy for 20 BTC at 2 satoshi. Nobody was selling at 2 satoshi, so he lifted half of buy orders at 2 and was waiting and hoping to buy cheap. Nobody was selling, very few dumpers dumped at 200 litoshi. Than he realized dumping is over and it is buy time. Don't be silly to think he placed that order based on some stupid thread post about reverse-split poll. It was just a result of low volume sell pressure.

Lol I have a pretty good idea what is going on...no, I'm not the guy playing with 20 BTC.

Vote to get Karma listed on this exchange: https://hitbtc.com/vote (sign up to get a vote for 10 points, vote once every 24 hrs)
socoban
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July 11, 2014, 10:29:18 AM
 #3406

Securing Karma's BTC market with a reverse split

Please let us know your opinion at http://karmashares.com/forums/index.php?topic=463.0

I am against reverse-split. The reason is simple, BTC market is fine, price decline stopped. Nobody is selling now. There is a huge buy order at 3 satoshi. Yesterday was dumped last cheap Karma. It is impossible to buy KARMA at 250 litoshi now. So, why you want to do that? It is much much easier to grow from 3 satoshi to 30 satoshi than from 3000 satoshi to 30000 satoshi. We need trade volume, trade volume will come, when price will go up. Right now, people are holding and buying. Dumpers finished dumping. KARM can be first billion coin to succeed. Doge will die, KARMA can take its place now. Every reverse-split will make chaos, lot of work, lot of problems and if there is really not a very serious reason for that, do not do that. Karma is fine and on uptrend again.

Actually the price decline stopped and reversed within an hour of the poll being created. Look at the timing of the trades.

LOL:) this is nuts:) Do you really think someone will throw 15 BTC buy order on KARMA based on some poll? HAHAHAHA. That guy with those BTC was playing with them for many days. He placed BUY order at 3 satoshi few days ago. It was like 15 BTC volume. It was filled, so he was trying to buy for 20 BTC at 2 satoshi. Nobody was selling at 2 satoshi, so he lifted half of buy orders at 2 and was waiting and hoping to buy cheap. Nobody was selling, very few dumpers dumped at 200 litoshi. Than he realized dumping is over and it is buy time. Don't be silly to think he placed that order based on some stupid thread post about reverse-split poll. It was just a result of low volume sell pressure.

Lol I have a pretty good idea what is going on...no, I'm not the guy playing with 20 BTC.

Prove it:)
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July 11, 2014, 10:32:42 AM
 #3407

I think that, if it is ever done, do it NOW and don't do it EVER again.
For this time, a 1:10 would be enough, why would you want to go to 1:1000? If you want this coin to be used in the commercial world you need a higher market cap, for adaption. If you go from 3 satoshi to 3000 satoshi, if the price rises it would go to 3010, 3020, 3030 etc. You make a 1 percent difference on something that could have been 33%. What you are trying go do with a 1:1000 split or even 1:100 is to try and keep the coin from not dying, but it has never been dying atm! You as a team know which projects are coming and that this price problem may only be here for a few more weeks, why the hell would you want to change it now if you could let the coin grow itself. We fought for this btc market. If it means we can do a reverse split whenever we want we wouldn't have had to fight for this market, we could've just reversed splitted the coin at 11 litoshi.
1:1000 feels never good, people WONT adapt. 1:10 may just be acceptable, but even that is not needed.
Lets be a billioncoin that succeeds, lets me a billioncoin that shows real value is inside of the coin, in the trust and development and not in the speculation.

If you dev's would change it from 1:1000, i would seriously start to doubt the trust you have in this coin, because you are scared the coin cant overcome this 1-20 satoshi range.

Cheers
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July 11, 2014, 10:56:44 AM
 #3408

Am I right in saying once you do the split the price of the coin will take the Same split or will the price still be 2sat??
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July 11, 2014, 11:11:57 AM
 #3409

Am I right in saying once you do the split the price of the coin will take the Same split or will the price still be 2sat??

1 dollar for 1000 coins would be 0.001$ per coin, 1 dollar for 1 coin would be 1$ per coin. So in theory the price per coin would be x1000 with a 1:1000 split. Meaning the marketcap would be exactly the same
socoban
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July 11, 2014, 12:25:44 PM
 #3410

I will post just once about this split. Not going to participate in this discussion. I am amazed how good thing for the coin like this denomination gets so many negative answers. Really. For the guys that are against, I would recommend to look back at their posts about going x11 at late March and early April and how they made a laugh of me. Then, please look at your opinions 2 months later. And now this? Back then I told you that a million coin will be much more successful than a billion coin. Just 3 days ago there was a short discussion on which billion coin is a successful. Almost nobody paid attention, but If you do some research, you will see that in this very moment there is no such coin. There is no billion coin with ongoing PoW that can be called successful except KARMA. I read that you are taking split as a tread to KARMA economy. This denomination is not a game changer to KARMA economy. This is a boost for mass adoption. And the moment for the fork is precisely selected, for which I give my compliments to kosmost. Once again he is 2 laps in front of some people. You are all preaching about the price. When are you going to understand that it isn`t the most important for now? Volume and spreading among more people is the biggest goal. like it or not, the psychology in crypto world works like that - If somebody have an investment in a coin with price of 5000 and this coin go up to 6000 it will be 20% gain. And he will be so happy about it. Now look at this thread of ours and see how many people are bitching why the price is not at 100 satoshi range. After more than 2000% gain for couple of months?!? The examples with coins like Saturn, NXT, etc, I find ridiculous. We need to attract more investors to grow KARMASHARES. This is №1 priority. And the big guys will not take us very seriously if we continue to be a billion coin. It is so simple. Of course, if you can donate ten or hundred thousands of dollars to KARMA fund for development, I will change my opinion at once. Our community is small for now and Karma team is getting none or a small help from us. At least we can give them the freedom to attract new investors for future developments.

Did you discuss this change with Cryptsy / Mintpal? They have to agree, they have to accept it at first. It is lot of work for them. We should know that before we start the discussion at all. If any exchange will not agree, we have no option than let it be as is. The whole discussion is about keeping BTC market strong, so the first think to find out is, will be any change like this accepted by exchanges? And if yes, how fast?
learminer
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July 11, 2014, 12:50:44 PM
 #3411

I will post just once about this split. Not going to participate in this discussion. I am amazed how good thing for the coin like this denomination gets so many negative answers. Really. For the guys that are against, I would recommend to look back at their posts about going x11 at late March and early April and how they made a laugh of me. Then, please look at your opinions 2 months later. And now this? Back then I told you that a million coin will be much more successful than a billion coin. Just 3 days ago there was a short discussion on which billion coin is a successful. Almost nobody paid attention, but If you do some research, you will see that in this very moment there is no such coin. There is no billion coin with ongoing PoW that can be called successful except KARMA. I read that you are taking split as a tread to KARMA economy. This denomination is not a game changer to KARMA economy. This is a boost for mass adoption. And the moment for the fork is precisely selected, for which I give my compliments to kosmost. Once again he is 2 laps in front of some people. You are all preaching about the price. When are you going to understand that it isn`t the most important for now? Volume and spreading among more people is the biggest goal. like it or not, the psychology in crypto world works like that - If somebody have an investment in a coin with price of 5000 and this coin go up to 6000 it will be 20% gain. And he will be so happy about it. Now look at this thread of ours and see how many people are bitching why the price is not at 100 satoshi range. After more than 2000% gain for couple of months?!? The examples with coins like Saturn, NXT, etc, I find ridiculous. We need to attract more investors to grow KARMASHARES. This is №1 priority. And the big guys will not take us very seriously if we continue to be a billion coin. It is so simple. Of course, if you can donate ten or hundred thousands of dollars to KARMA fund for development, I will change my opinion at once. Our community is small for now and Karma team is getting none or a small help from us. At least we can give them the freedom to attract new investors for future developments.
I would agree if we were discussing a new coin. A freshly launched billion coin would be dead in the water these days. But Karma is already well established and already has 2/3rds of its mining done (in only a few months, hence all the dumping early on - too high inflation).

The only advantage I see in the reverse split is removing the huge margin when trading at these single digit rates. But I am convinced these are not going to be Karma's last stop and once above 10 or 20 sat (which Karma can certainly reach) that issue is pretty much gone. I have traded plenty of other coins and people bitch just as much when price goes from 4000 to 3000 sat, as when it goes from 4 to 3 sat. You're never going to get rid of complaints. And price moves down after a bubble just as fast too.

Karma is already one of the higher valued altcoins out there. Out of those that remain with higher marketcaps almost all have some sort of unique property. Wether that's being one of the older altcoins around, a unique mining algorithm, a unique "Proof of Something" method, advanced anonymity, a huge community, or being a whale's toy. Karma has basically left behind the entire shitcoin crowd, despite being a billion coin. I have no doubt it can grow further and moving the decimal won't do a thing to help but create confusion.

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July 11, 2014, 01:03:36 PM
 #3412

the coin logo was beautiful,lol
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July 11, 2014, 01:20:10 PM
 #3413

Reverse split can be good to our economy. Karma is not Sat2, nor any other coins, that will suffer the same fate as what everyone has observed presently. Karma is backed up by solid developments and these separate it from the rest. When we reverse split, I doubt it will be met with buyers' apprehension in the market. Those who will, will not sustain their doubts. Instead, buyers will see that in a few numbers, things are getting serious. Much more, they will see karma not only in the limelight of exchanges, but see it more in the light of its developments behind the scene, and the projects that start to be making names and sparking interests in the cryptoworld. In other words, karma is valuable in itself, and so seeing the need to possess, investors will likely be more serious in their intention to own more. This is a very powerful combination: solid developments + scarcity (as represented in the reverse split impression) + a dedicated team = karma's success.

In anyway a reverse split can do to karma, it is to add more value!
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July 11, 2014, 01:43:53 PM
 #3414

Always interesting discussions in KarmaLand ..

I have faith in the dev team ..
So, if this is a 'proxy' vote then you can
'vote' my small stake of 10.6 million KARM FOR whatever you think best ..

Triff ..

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p4r4m0un7
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July 11, 2014, 02:30:47 PM
 #3415

The discussion here is becoming too aggressive and not productive. Instead of generating ideas what can we do to grow community and take at least a little part of it, we are whining about the price, exchanges, etc. Let`s focus on the small or big things that we can contribute to. With the help of all KARMA moderators we can split big goals to a little tasks that can make us huge.
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July 11, 2014, 02:32:42 PM
 #3416

I just think the logo is beautiful,lol

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July 11, 2014, 03:13:19 PM
 #3417

we have consulted with some great devs in the cryptoworld and they all agree Billion coins are not worth for investors.

software developers are not investors nor are they economists. they should not be consulted for investment advice.

the more people talk about changing this crypto coin the more I realise that some of the people behind karmashares really do not understand economics or crypto currencies.

Karma is a payment system and a currency, it is not a company and it is not a security.

crypto currency has value because of its utility and because it is to some degree finite.


the biggest selling point of BTC was that there could only ever be 21 million coins. this figure will never change and it is what gives BTC its value and scarcity.

there will only ever be 92 billion (or so) Karma coins... people accepted this fact when they bought into this experiment.

if you change that number, (no matter how you do it), then you send two very strong messages to the market.

Firstly you tell all holders of the coin that their investment is not secure. If you thought you had 100 Karma one day then the next day you could have 1... the day after that you could have 100,000...  all at the whim of a few very vocal self serving investors. (if a coin can be reverse split.. then absolutely nothing stops it from being split again in the future)

Secondly you tell future investors AND users of the currency that the coin is not stable.. if I open up my Karma fruit store on the side of the road selling all kinds of fruit... lets say apples for 50,000 Karma each, oranges for 20,000 karma some day in the future I will have change all of my prices, not only that but when I collect sales tax and then go to pay my quarterly tax obligations I am in a complete mess because someone has decided that half way though the financial year they would chop off a few zeros from every karma that I collected.. so now I have to reconcile two completely different sets of accounting numbers.


There is a reason that currencies are not split and reverse split (ie taking zeroes off and adding zeroes to the end).. and that is because it completely messes up the entire economy from the little grandma on the side of the road selling fruit to the large corporation trying to collect and pay its taxes).

Maybe in countries like Zimbabwe this happens but do you really want Karma to become the zimbabwe dollar of the crypto world?


Yes you can do it with shares on the NYSE no problem this is because shares are not, nor are they intended to be, used as a currency for day to day transactions.

And yes it can be argued that not many people are using Karm at the moment so it doesn't affect many people.. but that is beside the point..a dangerous precedent is being set here. I for one would never have invested in BTC if the developers could just change the numbers whenever it suited them.

If Karma splits then so will I... I'm just about done with people constantly arguing about how to manipulate the price.

This is not what Karma was designed for, this is not the ethos of Karma. If people do not like the idea of a currency which is supposed to used for altruism and education instead of making people rich.. then they should leave rather than try to take over the coin... because a coin that does not stick to its original selling point is pointless.


Please let your voices be heard here: http://karmashares.com/forums/index.php/topic,463.msg2391.html#msg2391

I, personally did not vote for or against any number...but I believe in the points you raised, this is a community controlled activity so it is imperative that all sides be properly heard.

Please follow the link and make your voice heard. If you would like the split then select the ratio you would like best, if you are against any split select other and write a little paragraph on why you don't think the split is a good idea.    It is important you make your position known. This poll is simply a feeler to test the waters to see how the community would feel about such a split. The decision to move forward and actually do a real motion to split might come as a result of the findings in this poll so if you don't follow  the link and make your voice heard then i don't want to hear jack crap from you later when the split gets voted on and the results are not to your liking.
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July 11, 2014, 03:52:22 PM
 #3418

If the ratio is 100:1

The total number will be 1 billion

There is no 'big guy' in 1 billion market

The price of one coin will be 10,000 satoshi

Good for karma

I like the price of karma (now it 2~4 satoshi)

But it's ending new age is coming.. Wink


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July 11, 2014, 04:36:09 PM
 #3419

There is whole lot way for Karma to travel from 2-3 to 10K Satoshi.
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July 11, 2014, 06:37:07 PM
 #3420

if we reverse split to 1:1000

there will be some long way before karma adjusts to high satoshi price. it will be wild ride but i believe its best. it will give ways to bigger investors to come in and it will be secure to smaller investor too.

take an example of dogecoin. there was a massive push. They even had reddit CEO basically push the coin to frontpages of one of the biggest social "blog" networks. they had professional marketing team. The took a famous meme and decided to run an experiment with it. a fun coin. but then they said "eff' it. and released the beast.

dogecoin blew up from the investors , not because it was fun. BTT investors here saw the backing of this coin from the dogecoin dev team and the reddit CEO and knew it would make news. and they were right. dogecoin started rising. when faced with question why this coin focused on a meme is getting attention they said beacuse its "fun". the played the not serious angle. and started to market that. big bag holder walking around tipping crazy amounts and reddit stuff helping them gain attention.

But soon the investors started to realize that a billion dollar coin is hard to move forward. especially one that was pumpin new coins daily. So they it started to stall at 30-50 satoshi range. they just could not move it higher.

then the whales tried to give it a shot. we all know the famous wolong. they brute pumped it double its value and tripple but they soon meet the fate of pumping a multibillion coin with mass dumping.

ever since then, no experienced investors thinks twice to invest in multi billion coins.


But we did not have any one famous backing us up. Especially when this coin was created by the old dev with sole purpose to be a instamine galore. it was a temporarily project of theirs. it was designed to pump as much coin as dogecoin and be able to sell them once they hit an exchange and walk away. which they basically did. But what they missed to realize it people like me and others. we loved the name. it only survived because of the name. it makes sense. its brand-able . its fantastic name. its a name that sells the purpose its self. its a name that promotes good and fairness.

we could see this coin die so we joined forces and gave it a meaning. gave it a purpose. We started making a list of end of the line goals. you all know the history of how we got here.

why all these info? To show you that Karma was not designed to last. it was designed to be  maintained to sold for profit. the first 10,000 block were up to 2 mill coins a block.

Lets not stick too close to something that was designed to be forgotten and move forward and evolve. We want to see Karma being used a currency but it will become a commodity to hoard. it will be like bitcoin. People will start to hold on to it rather then use it. and when they see a price big enough they will sell it for profit. (as they should since its their option)  but this will prevent the coin being used and recycled daily. it stops being healthy distributed.

this is why bitcoin has started thinking into side chains and this is why other older coins have realized they need color coins. because their investors will hoard the coin, so then create an other token that is backed by this coin and use this as a commodity. basically making the coin their "GOLD" and the color coin their "FIAT"

This will be our future. People will hoard Karma as the GOLD and probable KarmaX as the FIAT.  We can have 1 Karma = 1000 KarmaX. and start tipping , trading this token with goods.

So why do i want Karma reversed split to 92 Million coins.:

* Because some one panic selling 50 mills out of their 200,000,000 coins is more dangerous then panic selling 50,000 coins.
* Because of the small margins in satoshis. Some one buying at 1000 satoshis will have to sell much higher to gain profit instead of some one buying at 10 satoshi to sell at 12 satoshi for a reasonable gain. This will prevent huge walls building up. .
* Because it will bring more investors as they will have more leverage and safety net. If an organized group start spreading FUD and cause panic sells it will not be as great. they might course the price to dip a few 10s satoshis before they are exposed as fake accusations. and even if there were true accusation it would give the investors some safe time to walk away with minimal losses. Unlike now with billion of coins. If only 5 to 10 people panic sells that could be over 500 millions of coin. probably drawn us to 10 litoshi before the accusation are cleared as fake. no big investor will sleep well



Again: Karma will always be connected to people hoarding it for a higher profit. They will not buy a cheeseburger with karma anytime soon. So we start treating karma as gold. this is one of the major reason we lunched the LLC. so we can build projects to be backed up by karma. but as we starting to see, Karma is not being used as a currency. but as their way to become millionairs.

So then we introduce color coin/ sidechain and start start using them for such uses and have them backed by a fixed price of karma. SO we fix the Color coin.

1 karmaX = $0.001 worth of Karma. so 1000 KarmaX will always be worth $1 worth of karma.

this will prompt people to trade karmaX because if they hold it for 1 year it will still be worth $1


Bitcoin and older coins have already seen this and are trying to push it. A main reason why NXT secured their BTC market. they started to introduce color coin concept because no one was buying cheeseburger with NXT coins

Please see the bigger picture

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