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Author Topic: [ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11  (Read 564674 times)
bitwho
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June 16, 2014, 06:39:23 PM
 #2461

I'm trying hard to understand something.
All that I search up doesn't really explain it in terms I can understand.

I see other coins with higher network hash rates and lower difficulty than Karma.

Karma's hash and difficulty has lowered its true, but blocks are still very scarce to come by.
I found more blocks solo mining with diff in the 30's.
Is this just the "luck of the draw" as far as blocks go or can a big pool or miner somehow "hog " the blocks out there?

Guess what I'm asking ....What really determines difficulty? How do other coins have higher network hash but lower difficulty?
Is it the actual number of miners?

Thanks for anyone with some insight into this.

its all about how many blocks per day the network releases. We are 1 min/hr x 60 min/hr x 24 hr/day = 1440 block/day. So they difficulty re-adjusted to make sure that 1440 blocks will be found on average per day. there is all kind of difficulty re adjustment to make the time interval to calculate smaller or larger.

Other coin your comparing us probably have 30s second block findings therefore the difficulty is low because it will need to release twice as many coins per day.

We could look into implementing a better difficulty recalculation/re-target. But this will only help us get faster difficult re target after a huge hash rate leaves. Such thing can not prevent big hash rate from jumping in and mining us away. Only block rewards help us with this and lucky for us we're roughly a week away from a tremendous 1/3 block reward cut! that will minimal new coins being sold to us cheap!
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June 16, 2014, 06:53:50 PM
 #2462

Well, I'll check on the other coin and its coin per release.
In the meantime how is a pool get 72 blocks in 14.5 hours?
Of 870 blocks available in the 14.5 hour day so far, this pool has "found" 72 of them. An extraordinary 8.2% success rate.
Pure hash power, dumb luck or voodoo?

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Alphi
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June 16, 2014, 07:12:18 PM
 #2463

Well, I'll check on the other coin and its coin per release.
In the meantime how is a pool get 72 blocks in 14.5 hours?
Of 870 blocks available in the 14.5 hour day so far, this pool has "found" 72 of them. An extraordinary 8.2% success rate.
Pure hash power, dumb luck or voodoo?

you have a mathematically better chance of finding a block if you are in a pool even if you have the same hash rate. that is why pools were created.

a very simple analogy would be.. say you were reading a mystery novel for a class project.. it has 10 chapters ... you have been instructed to find out who dun it but you don't know which chapter in which it is revealed.

lets say you are in a class of 10 people to keep things simple.

there are two ways you could do this..

method A: you could just ask each person to flick through the book and try to find out who dun it..

method B: you could break up the work and assign 1 chapter to each class member.

in method A the majority of the class starts from the beginning of the book...  so no matter how many people are flicking through it .. it still would take some significant amount of time before someone found the right chapter..

in Method B.. you would know very quickly because each person has their own chapter so at least one member in the class has the right chapter and they will know as soon as they start reading.

pools use method B because it is more efficient at finding solutions.
the bigger the pool the more efficient it is.. hence why people tend to mine at the biggest pool...

the problem is that if one pool gets more than 51% of the hashing power then it becomes dangerous for the network security..
miners however generally don't care (especially if they are new to mining or planning to dump their coins straight away anyway) so they just go for the pool with the best chances.. usually the biggest one.

some people mine using Method A because they like the idea of finding a block and keeping all the coin reward to themselves. in the long run though it is mathematically proven to be less efficient and more like lotto.

hope that helps to clarify things without getting too technical...

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June 16, 2014, 07:53:55 PM
 #2464

Thanks for your reply Alphi.
I know that's the usual talking point of pools, except with my modest hashrate, I was getting more Karma per day soloing than I was in a pool.
And I tried several, both small and large.

Even last week when difficulty was high, I was still getting at least one sometimes two blocks a day.
Still more productive than pools (which I tried and rewards were about 50~70% of a block.

Now I'm wondering with difficulty way down why is it getting harder for my little 2x4 miner.

Oh and another question, is mining difficulty exponential?

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June 16, 2014, 09:30:16 PM
 #2465

Thanks for your reply Alphi.
I know that's the usual talking point of pools, except with my modest hashrate, I was getting more Karma per day soloing than I was in a pool.
And I tried several, both small and large.

Even last week when difficulty was high, I was still getting at least one sometimes two blocks a day.
Still more productive than pools (which I tried and rewards were about 50~70% of a block.

Now I'm wondering with difficulty way down why is it getting harder for my little 2x4 miner.

Oh and another question, is mining difficulty exponential?

difficulty is simply the difficulty of the mathematical problem that needs to be resolved so that someone can create a block.
how many other machines are looking for the same solution will dictate how likely you are to find a block along with a degree of luck.

the difficulty is constantly changing but it doesn't react instantly to the increase/and decrease of hashing power, it is always a few steps behind the network hash rate..

difficulty ajustment is a correction mechanism to regulate the flow of coins to keep it relatively constant over a 24 hour period.

it is not exponential.. if the hash rate rises too quickly then the difficulty will adjust to compensate after N blocks.
in other words.. the difficulty adjustment algorithm is trying to keep the block creation rate to 1 block per minute (in the case of Karma)

You cannot easily compare different coins hash rates and difficulty levels even if they are using the same PoW system because there are several different difficulty adjustment algorithms out there.

for example Litecoin uses the original adjustment mechanism from bitcoin.

Karma uses Kimotos Gravity well. (KGW) which is supposed to be much more reactive to quick influxes of hashing power.

http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/21730/how-does-the-kimoto-gravity-well-regulate-difficulty

there is another one called Digishield.
and another called Nites Gravity well.

they are all different formulas but they all basically calculate the next difficulty based on how quickly or slowly the previous blocks were created.

as to why things seems harder for you now when the difficulty is lower. I could only guess that there is an element of luck combined with an element of rapid influxes of hashing power due to the price going up and down like a yoyo.

I think you will find that if you keep looking at the difficulty it will probably adjust back to where you expect it to be(relative to the network hash rate) before too long, but there isn't a way to accurately predict how many coins you will get because the network hash rate is changing so rapidly.

for further reading.. here might be a more detailed explanation than mine.

https://forum.megacoin.co.nz/index.php?topic=893.0

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June 16, 2014, 09:31:25 PM
 #2466

Karma is by faaar the most traded coin on the ltc market on mintpal.... Going into the btc market with 2-3 sats is a huge risk imo. Cant we just shoot up here till 10sats or something?

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June 16, 2014, 09:38:13 PM
 #2467


the difficulty is constantly changing but it doesn't react instantly to the increase/and decrease of hashing power, it is always a few steps behind the network hash rate..

difficulty ajustment is a correction mechanism to regulate the flow of coins to keep it relatively constant over a 24 hour period.

it is not exponential.. if the hash rate rises too quickly then the difficulty will adjust to compensate after N blocks.
in other words.. the difficulty adjustment algorithm is trying to keep the block creation rate to 1 block per minute (in the case of Karma)

" I see " said the blind man as he picked up his hammer and saw.

LOL... so if I hear you correctly.....difficulty trails the hashrate up or down  trying to keep a stable coin release of about a block a minute.
And really as a solo miner on this coin since May 1, I really only have my experience to draw on. Some days I would get a couple blocks one day I got 6.
It's truly been all over the map but averaged over 3 a day until the last 5 days then it went to crap.

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June 16, 2014, 10:40:20 PM
 #2468

LOL... so if I hear you correctly.....difficulty trails the hashrate up or down  trying to keep a stable coin release of about a block a minute.
And really as a solo miner on this coin since May 1, I really only have my experience to draw on. Some days I would get a couple blocks one day I got 6.
It's truly been all over the map but averaged over 3 a day until the last 5 days then it went to crap.

yep because you are soloing you are basically competing against the pools instead of working with them...

it would be like going to the Olympics and having to compete against titans like china and the us.. and your just some tiny little pacific island nation.. every once in a while you get a medal.. if you are lucky..  Grin

the smaller you are the less predictable your earnings are... which is another reason why people don't like to go onto small pools.

KARMA: KSc9oGgGga1TS4PqZNFxNS9LSDjdSgpC1B      VERT: VgKaooA5ZuLLUXTUANJigH9wCPuzBUBv9H
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June 16, 2014, 10:45:08 PM
 #2469


the difficulty is constantly changing but it doesn't react instantly to the increase/and decrease of hashing power, it is always a few steps behind the network hash rate..

difficulty ajustment is a correction mechanism to regulate the flow of coins to keep it relatively constant over a 24 hour period.

it is not exponential.. if the hash rate rises too quickly then the difficulty will adjust to compensate after N blocks.
in other words.. the difficulty adjustment algorithm is trying to keep the block creation rate to 1 block per minute (in the case of Karma)

" I see " said the blind man as he picked up his hammer and saw.

LOL... so if I hear you correctly.....difficulty trails the hashrate up or down  trying to keep a stable coin release of about a block a minute.
And really as a solo miner on this coin since May 1, I really only have my experience to draw on. Some days I would get a couple blocks one day I got 6.
It's truly been all over the map but averaged over 3 a day until the last 5 days then it went to crap.

when you say they last couple of days it went to crap.. i saw in some of your earlier posts you thought the difficulty went down in the last few days, in fact the difficulty has gone up.. hence when you mine you get less coins to your hash rate.. we have all seen it and its only due to the coin regaining popularity, more people mine, hashrate goes up, difficulty goes up as a result
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June 17, 2014, 12:31:47 AM
 #2470

Karma is by faaar the most traded coin on the ltc market on mintpal.... Going into the btc market with 2-3 sats is a huge risk imo. Cant we just shoot up here till 10sats or something?

No. I believe the reason the price is bleeding so much is because we are pegged against Litecoin - Like it or not it's a dying and antiquated piece of tech. At just 0.0164 BTC per Litecoin and dropping every week (was 0.0253 at the end of April) it represents a seriously bad investment for the long term - no one wants to hold it or any coin that is solely pegged against it.

People like Karmacoin - we know this - but they do NOT like that they must purchase Litecoin before buying it. Even if you held the price of Karma the same at say 200 Litoshi the actual value of each coin in bitcoin has dropped 54% since Late April.

When the block thirding occurs I would like to see a huge push by the devs and the community - using every bit of good news about Karma that we have, every feature that we have - to reach out further than ever before into the crypto world - tweeting, FB, reddit, articles, press release - anything and everything we can - and have it all synchronised with a BTC pairing being activated on Mintpal - whatever needs to be done to synchronize such a push with Mintpal should be done.

We have a real chance with the upcoming thirding to push the coin out there on Mintpal. Folks, it will not reach 10 Satoshi equivalent in the Litecoin market - Its just wont happen. Not as long as Litecoin is a dying coin. Even with the Bitcoin drop Litecoin has fallen from 0.01714 to 0.0163 - we simply must get out of this sinking ship and allow the Bitcoin market to help us reach a true and fair price.





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June 17, 2014, 03:42:57 AM
 #2471

Karma is by faaar the most traded coin on the ltc market on mintpal.... Going into the btc market with 2-3 sats is a huge risk imo. Cant we just shoot up here till 10sats or something?

No. I believe the reason the price is bleeding so much is because we are pegged against Litecoin - Like it or not it's a dying and antiquated piece of tech. At just 0.0164 BTC per Litecoin and dropping every week (was 0.0253 at the end of April) it represents a seriously bad investment for the long term - no one wants to hold it or any coin that is solely pegged against it.

People like Karmacoin - we know this - but they do NOT like that they must purchase Litecoin before buying it. Even if you held the price of Karma the same at say 200 Litoshi the actual value of each coin in bitcoin has dropped 54% since Late April.

When the block thirding occurs I would like to see a huge push by the devs and the community - using every bit of good news about Karma that we have, every feature that we have - to reach out further than ever before into the crypto world - tweeting, FB, reddit, articles, press release - anything and everything we can - and have it all synchronised with a BTC pairing being activated on Mintpal - whatever needs to be done to synchronize such a push with Mintpal should be done.

We have a real chance with the upcoming thirding to push the coin out there on Mintpal. Folks, it will not reach 10 Satoshi equivalent in the Litecoin market - Its just wont happen. Not as long as Litecoin is a dying coin. Even with the Bitcoin drop Litecoin has fallen from 0.01714 to 0.0163 - we simply must get out of this sinking ship and allow the Bitcoin market to help us reach a true and fair price.








Can't agree more ! The litecoin seems go to dying ,it's just a foil of bitcoin .A lots of amounts of litecoin is in Chinese investors hands ,but it's deficient of this coin development .Go to BTC markets , will make karma coin exposure more without question


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June 17, 2014, 04:09:04 AM
 #2472

Karmala, I thought it would be better to wait until we broke the 300 Litoshi sell wall (when it was looking possible when we were at around 200 Litoshi) but I think that is unlikely until an announcement is made by Mintpal about when exactly we are going to move back to the BTC market.

I think the reason we got so high in LTC is because it was looking like we would be moving to BTC.

I'd expect Karma to reach 4-5 Satoshi within a few days of reaching the BTC market and I wouldn't be surprised if it reached 10 or more Satoshi within weeks of making it to the BTC market. That's based on what I've seen happen when coins reach a new major exchange, which moving back to BTC is for KARMA as long as it gets an announcement. An announcement that Karma is going to be BTC again will put Karma on people's radar.

Now that the price has fallen all the way down again I'm really starting to think we need to move to BTC ASAP then direct currency conversion when we can. Karma can easily increase from 2 to 3 then 4 Satoshi on Mintpal in BTC now that it has been done in LTC which will create great momentum for Karma on the BTC market.

I think we need more posts here about what is happening. The Karma forums shouldn't be replacing this far more noticeable forum, it makes it look like people are losing interest in Karma. It hasn't even been announced who has won the "elections" yet.

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June 17, 2014, 04:29:02 AM
 #2473

i like to look at numbers.


we have network hash rate un accounted for. they most likely are multipools. mining and selling at any price. soon we will have the 1/3 halving. thats going to bring the end of that. the only ones hurting the price then it would be coins holder in our community selling it. and i don't see this happening anytime soon. We should start picking up momentum again very soon


what we should focus is spreading the awareness of Karma all over. We need to be in each corner of cryptoworld.

At the same time we need to join an exchange in China. We need too let china know about our coin. It will be a huge hit.

unstoppable

but we gotta to grow in numbers. Keep helping by spreading the coin around

looking for C++ coders , web-dev and coin-devs to join karmacoin team. We are trying to expand. we have so many goals. Challenge accepted?  PM me.
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June 17, 2014, 05:14:50 AM
 #2474

Karmala, I thought it would be better to wait until we broke the 300 Litoshi sell wall (when it was looking possible when we were at around 200 Litoshi) but I think that is unlikely until an announcement is made by Mintpal about when exactly we are going to move back to the BTC market.

I think the reason we got so high in LTC is because it was looking like we would be moving to BTC.

I'd expect Karma to reach 4-5 Satoshi within a few days of reaching the BTC market and I wouldn't be surprised if it reached 10 or more Satoshi within weeks of making it to the BTC market. That's based on what I've seen happen when coins reach a new major exchange, which moving back to BTC is for KARMA as long as it gets an announcement. An announcement that Karma is going to be BTC again will put Karma on people's radar.

Now that the price has fallen all the way down again I'm really starting to think we need to move to BTC ASAP then direct currency conversion when we can. Karma can easily increase from 2 to 3 then 4 Satoshi on Mintpal in BTC now that it has been done in LTC which will create great momentum for Karma on the BTC market.

I think we need more posts here about what is happening. The Karma forums shouldn't be replacing this far more noticeable forum, it makes it look like people are losing interest in Karma. It hasn't even been announced who has won the "elections" yet.

The price has not fallen all the way down, because i am currently seeing us at 150lts and not 6lts where we were before the LLC started. I believe the recent spike that shot our price to the mid 200s was the result of market manipulators that jump from coin to coin preying on the fear of weak hands. If people were in the IRC a few days ago you would have saw me warn of what i had experienced happing at around 12am central US time up until 11am four days in a row. If you are like me and share in the vision of the future of Karma then you should not worry so much about the current price because you would know that with all that the LLC has in the pipeline for Karma that the price should rise on its own and for the right reasons. No one can tell the future 100% so its up to you to trade, hold or sell as you see fit, but the way I see it we are currently experiencing a discount sell on Karma complements of the current income miners and weak hands. So i am backing up the truck.
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June 17, 2014, 05:33:31 AM
 #2475

Karmala, I thought it would be better to wait until we broke the 300 Litoshi sell wall (when it was looking possible when we were at around 200 Litoshi) but I think that is unlikely until an announcement is made by Mintpal about when exactly we are going to move back to the BTC market.

I think the reason we got so high in LTC is because it was looking like we would be moving to BTC.

I'd expect Karma to reach 4-5 Satoshi within a few days of reaching the BTC market and I wouldn't be surprised if it reached 10 or more Satoshi within weeks of making it to the BTC market. That's based on what I've seen happen when coins reach a new major exchange, which moving back to BTC is for KARMA as long as it gets an announcement. An announcement that Karma is going to be BTC again will put Karma on people's radar.

Now that the price has fallen all the way down again I'm really starting to think we need to move to BTC ASAP then direct currency conversion when we can. Karma can easily increase from 2 to 3 then 4 Satoshi on Mintpal in BTC now that it has been done in LTC which will create great momentum for Karma on the BTC market.

I think we need more posts here about what is happening. The Karma forums shouldn't be replacing this far more noticeable forum, it makes it look like people are losing interest in Karma. It hasn't even been announced who has won the "elections" yet.

This is me speaking for self and this is my own opinion.
This forum is but one of many information avenues the Karmashares LLC has implemented to keep people informed. Our main forum http://karmashares.com/forums/index.php which is way more in depth has been posted here many times not to mention the links to all of the other venues we have to get news out. So if people are too lazy to actually go to the source and find the information or news they seek then they deserve the results of their ill informed decisions.  
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June 17, 2014, 07:42:37 AM
 #2476

This conversation about going to BTC market is really pointless. And this was proved many times. I will re-post my opinion from our forum:

Quote
Reestablishing BTC/KARMA does not mean, that LTC/KARMA market will be closed. BTC market will open us to much more new friends and make us much more visible. BTC market is growing rapidly, while LTC market is in stagnation. So, it is an opening of another door, but without closing one. And don`t forget, that if we want to be a multi billion company, we have to fund the projects. And this will be much more easier with high prices and volume in BTC.  With the value of Karmashares and price of the coin rise, we will attract much more new people and hopefully many of them will have the needed development, marketing and financial skills that we need. The real value of KARMA will be seen when current and future projects become biiig and dividends starts to be payed. For a prices like 1,2,3,10,100 satoshi are ridiculous and doesn`t even deserve attention. But with the price of 100 satoshi it will be far more easier to grow Karmashare projects. So, we need BTC market and much higher KARMA prices.

And to add something more: you saw what the miners did in previous week - dump at first moment. That proved what I`ve said about going to BTC market, but after next reward dropping.
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June 17, 2014, 10:26:16 AM
 #2477

I think we need more posts here about what is happening. The Karma forums shouldn't be replacing this far more noticeable forum, it makes it look like people are losing interest in Karma. It hasn't even been announced who has won the "elections" yet.

I agree with Chargin...
its ok to have a coins own forums but right now the main entry point for almost all new users to any altcoin is via bitcointalk.
Also the vast majority of karma holders are speculators. these are people who hold multiple coins.. they don't want to and/or don't have the time go to multiple different websites just to see whats happening.
I am most active here on bitcointalk simply because its is the easiest place to track all of my investments.

Just another note on the comments people have been making about the recent price drop.. ALL alt coins are ruled by speculation not mining, coins will rise in value and lose value depending on whether the speculators think it is a good investment or not.. this has almost nothing to do with mining. the so called price drop was nothing more than a correction which was due to happen because the price rose way too fast.. It really is just the natural ebb and flow of speculative investments. If one cannot handle the idea of ones investment doubling in a day and then halving the next day.. then one really should not even be involved with speculative investments. If one is too emotionally driven, does it mean one should get out of Karma? of course not .. it just means you should stop watching the ticker or it will drive you crazy.

I've been in the investment game for more than a decade now.. and one thing I have learnt is that losing $10,000 in one day is more than most people can bear to stomach, but in the speculative investment world this is a quite normal and a common occurrence.. as of course is gaining $10,000 in a day. So if you want to play with the big boys then you have to learn to develop nerves of steel.

KARMA: KSc9oGgGga1TS4PqZNFxNS9LSDjdSgpC1B      VERT: VgKaooA5ZuLLUXTUANJigH9wCPuzBUBv9H
DOGE:   DRN7pXid34o6wQgUuK8BoSjWJ5g8jiEs4e
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June 17, 2014, 12:20:20 PM
 #2478

I think we need more posts here about what is happening. The Karma forums shouldn't be replacing this far more noticeable forum, it makes it look like people are losing interest in Karma. It hasn't even been announced who has won the "elections" yet.

I agree with Chargin...
its ok to have a coins own forums but right now the main entry point for almost all new users to any altcoin is via bitcointalk.
Also the vast majority of karma holders are speculators. these are people who hold multiple coins.. they don't want to and/or don't have the time go to multiple different websites just to see whats happening.
I am most active here on bitcointalk simply because its is the easiest place to track all of my investments.


I put an open TASK in the forum for somebody formalizing a procedure for spreading announcements and Infos over all channels. http://karmashares.com/forums/index.php/topic,311.0.html here is the related discussion on it http://karmashares.com/forums/index.php/topic,310.0.html

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June 17, 2014, 03:07:44 PM
 #2479

I am working on translate http://www.karmacoin.me/ . I can complete it within 2 days .
Let me know how do you want to use the chinese contents ?
use it as a chinese edition to add to the official site http://www.karmacoin.me ? like  http://mintcoin.cc/ , http://mintcoin.cc/zh-hant/  ?  It's my pleasure if you can use it on the official site.
Please let me know .

₭ARMA: KA6y7oahRZDmcAKB8vZ1tx8ZbzT7WW27HE
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June 17, 2014, 03:33:11 PM
 #2480

I think we need more posts here about what is happening. The Karma forums shouldn't be replacing this far more noticeable forum, it makes it look like people are losing interest in Karma. It hasn't even been announced who has won the "elections" yet.

I agree with Chargin...
its ok to have a coins own forums but right now the main entry point for almost all new users to any altcoin is via bitcointalk.
Also the vast majority of karma holders are speculators. these are people who hold multiple coins.. they don't want to and/or don't have the time go to multiple different websites just to see whats happening.
I am most active here on bitcointalk simply because its is the easiest place to track all of my investments.

Just another note on the comments people have been making about the recent price drop.. ALL alt coins are ruled by speculation not mining, coins will rise in value and lose value depending on whether the speculators think it is a good investment or not.. this has almost nothing to do with mining. the so called price drop was nothing more than a correction which was due to happen because the price rose way too fast.. It really is just the natural ebb and flow of speculative investments. If one cannot handle the idea of ones investment doubling in a day and then halving the next day.. then one really should not even be involved with speculative investments. If one is too emotionally driven, does it mean one should get out of Karma? of course not .. it just means you should stop watching the ticker or it will drive you crazy.

I've been in the investment game for more than a decade now.. and one thing I have learnt is that losing $10,000 in one day is more than most people can bear to stomach, but in the speculative investment world this is a quite normal and a common occurrence.. as of course is gaining $10,000 in a day. So if you want to play with the big boys then you have to learn to develop nerves of steel.

Again this is me speaking for self.

Karma is not a coin designed for people to pump and dump or to trade around to make a profit. If you trade Karma and make big cash then good for you but our goal and vision for Karma goes way beyond the trading and mining market. We are focused on building a first of it's kind crypto currency that will be backed by a real company that is focused on doing Good things in the world via a variety of different projects that are organized, developed and executed by its investors. The true value of Karma will be compounded by real impacts that are made in its name to the cyber and real world. So if you choose to ride our coat tails and trade on the ups and downs then I wish you the best of luck. As for myself I don't really care what the price is right now because I am not near sided, I look to what Karma will become and not what it is now. Karma has gone up over 900 % in its first three months of relaunch and the Karmashares LLC (which without a doubt is the reason this phoenix has risen) is barly in its infancy. While no one really knows what tomorrow will bring I have seen a lot of pointless crap coins skyrocket for no reason at all so it makes me smile to think where a coin that is backed and promoted by a real company will go. In addition we are but a few team members engaged in a lot of different time consuming projects and are always looking for more of the community to lend a hand and join us in building a coin that will make crypto history. If anyone doesn't feel there is enough information on this forum then I invite you to step up and put your actions where your mouth is and help out by posting any additional information here derived from our other venues that you feel is lacking. Again these are just my opinions directed at the masses and not directed at any one individual. I would like to thank all of the Karma supporters who have stuck to their guns and didn't/don' t jump ship at the perceived first storm of this long but rewarding voyage. Go Karma!!!
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