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Author Topic: [ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11  (Read 564341 times)
bitwho
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June 19, 2014, 01:55:48 AM
 #2561

oh man. i just saw that my post sounds alarming. they are not.

it would be nice for all of you to move your mining rigs to p2p pools but i am not worried. By the time the team is done promoting p2p pool all the miners would be on it anyways.

as i said. i am in talking with altcoingood. he will set up a donation address where we will collect donation to use to reward miners to jump on p2p pool trains.

this pools will have no fee , bonus for block finders, 24 hrs bonuses , new entrance bonus and tons of other rewards that will help make mining in p2p pools appealing. already 22 million karma are offered to help this transition.

at this time i urge any other pool miners to set up a p2p pool and move your miners there.

KT5baGYnC9YfLAQuGQGmZJ7kFaD1kWDrdH is the donation address http://karma.p2pool.altcoin.dk/

i am going to send over 20 mill to this cause

back on track. i am going to send over 20 mills to this addy. karmakaguy have offered 2 mills. Can anyone else in the community step up and donate some more.

this will all go to miners. %100 of it.  The goal is to get at least 1/3 of the total net hash on this pool.  

soon in less then a week the block rewards will be cut drastically. this will prompt all the non karma dedicated miners to move out and mine other coins. its perfect timing to push for p2p pool!

here is the donation wallet with my 20 mills already donated http://explorer.karmacoin.me/address/KT5baGYnC9YfLAQuGQGmZJ7kFaD1kWDrdH
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June 19, 2014, 02:17:54 AM
 #2562

Hey all, maybe it is time to nominate a Technical Moderator as Kosmos indicated before.  First of all, I don't know anything about all the back-end technical stuff that you all are talking about.  I don't mine but I do own a lot of Karma.  So from the outside looking in, and any new potential Karma holder it doesn't flow well with "doing good is good" in this exact forum.  Since this topic is so important I'm sure it would be worthy of its very own place.  BTW, these are good problems to have.  It means Karma has real value.   

Karmashares:   lill.com
CatKiwi
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June 19, 2014, 02:21:14 AM
 #2563

hah. alright everyone chill out.

there was no FUD. Mintpal was under double spend attack. if anything them raising the confirmation to 200 should be enough to see this was no FUD. What is not known yet is whether this was an organized attack or a non human error attack.

As we can see. our dedicated overall pools have about 600 mh/s between them all and our total network is at 2700-3100 Mh/s . This tells us that there are tons more hash pointed at our coin. we do not know whether they are coming from individual solo mining, one multi pool. couple multipools or any other combination. What we do now know is that at least one of them for a few minutes had more then enough to cause a fork of its own.

this is what Agcrypto stated in his message. He had okay from all of us. Yup, we assigned him to deliver this news once we had enough to share with you. We agreed that even though this attack looked to be an accidental it was still an attack that did occur and we thought the community should know about it right away. not sure why you think otherwise but our trading volumes have been healthy all day today. this news did not couase any panic. only drama in this forum.

As we have stated many times we are not trying to be overloads and hide stuff to minimize and control the truth. The attacked happened and we had no choice but to immediately let everyone know. It had nothing to do with personal point of views.

@CatKiwi  :
AGcrypto , me and altcoingood are part of the karma team. You can look up our history and see that everything we do, say or think its for the best of the coin.

So lets talk about the p2p pool that you are accusing me and altcoingood pushing for it. Your making us come as villains. taking advantage of a FUD to what... build a pool monopoly?  out of what?? pool mining fees?

We should be thankful to any pool that is running a pool for us. Let's do some math to satisfy your accusation towards our agenda to own the network with our supreme pool!

if by a miracle the p2p mines all the block for a whole day this would gain the p2p pool a whopping 792,000 karma coins a day! again out of 1440 block x 110,000 coins and then a 0.005 pool fee = 792,000 kama.

Wow. good thing you caught us there mang. you really saved all the miners who would mine 158 mill coin that day 792,000 less!

Hope this give you an idea how much pools make a day in fees. and this is an example if the p2p pool mines all the coin. which will never be realistic. So once we are done pushing this much the p2p pool would have to make 1/3 of that. thats 264000 karma a day! and this is not even taking into account the huge block reward halving in few days

I personally am not involved with altcoingood pool. i never received any payments from him as a reward for helping him.

Why i am helping promoting his pool is because he is 24/7 active with out coin. He has done most then all of us in helping sustain many critical obstacles we have had with karma. He has set up for us our first reddit tipbot. he has set up our block explorer. he has set up two static nodes that even at this day are crucial to help new people link up to our network. he had set up p2p pool months back when we realized that karma.multi-pool.eu has more then %80 of our mining hash. He has set up MPOS pool as well.

Not only has he done all this. but he has kept them up and running all this time. We have never rewarded him with our coins. everything he has done has been genuine. And he has paid it out of his own pocket. Because he is a code geek and he has a good hart. He sees we need his services.

Why do i mention all this? because i would like all of you , who come and go in our coin community , to be up to date and realized why i am rooting for his p2p pool

An other very important topic is that if we would need altcoingood to boot off miners from his pool he would do it and not cry foul as we have seen from our top pool.

dear Catwiki hope this was enough info to clear some confusion. we are creating an necessary dramas with our post. Msg me and we can take this private. or come to #karmacoin and let us assure you there is no hiden agenda. I want karma to go fully P2p Pool so in future we do not have any other attacks!

Ps : its good to have you back. if i recall form last time , you mention you sold your coins to 70 litoshi because you thought our coin was not worth it and it should come back down to 40s. after you saw that our coin was not coming back to even 100s litoshis you realized your not getting the coins back. then you dissapeared for a while. didn hear from you in this chat. not interested in us once you sold your coin huh? then you bought back at 120 litoshi and again started to get active when you saw our coin reach 250.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

It is clear that we are not going to get anywhere arguing about this and we all have better things to do I'm sure. What is done is done.  

In response to your post script: For the sake of full disclosure so people that read this know where I stand on Karma - I had around 188 Million coins - sold a few million here and there until the final 174 Million were snapped up one night when the coin had its second spike from 30 something Litoshi to 80 something. Placed staggered sell orders hoping some rogue buy orders would come and snap and few million up (at that time the coin tended to have large 50+ litecoin buys come in every few days before volume died away again). Unfortunately the price rose more than I expected (it was on a steady decline day on day for over 3 weeks at this point) and someone bought them all. Hey, shit happens, ultimately its no big deal. I then went and invested and traded heavily in DRK, XC and VRC. Made some and lost some as is the way. When I lost faith in VRC I came and reinvested in Karma. I could see it was about 50/50 at that point in time that it would get a BTC pairing within the following 24 hours - I know that such an event tends to cause a coin to skyrocket - bought back in, a smaller amount than I originally had ofcourse but such is the way of things.

I like the coin, its got some nice little projects going on and plenty of action in the community. I did make the mistake of thinking that it was not going to go up as substantially as it did but you win some and you lose some. Most of us made the same mistake with CRY - that thing went up over 1000% in a few days - sometimes we just miss a beat.

I will be active here for as long as I hold an interest in Karma. Smiley
dips55tree
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June 19, 2014, 02:28:55 AM
 #2564

Less than 5 days before the reward goes to a 1/3.  Much on the horizon.

Karmashares:   lill.com
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June 19, 2014, 02:33:15 AM
 #2565

In the words of the great Encyclopedia Galactica: DON'T PANIC

Did the "possible 51% attack" originate form a regular mining pool? I somehow doubt that. Prematurely blaming regular pools is IMO a bad move and definitely not good Karma. Isn't it much more likely that the attack was coming from an external actor, rather than the existing Karma mining community? What if it is related to the 1.5+ GH/s Nethash that were unaccounted for last week? Was it even an attack on the regular network or rather aimed at Mintpal directly? I'd like to see some facts before we rush to conclusions and point fingers.

If it was indeed a 51% attack, it is pretty much the scenario I and others were warning about in April. Because of the new ASICs several GH/s of mining power are suddenly at the whim of a few select people. Moving our existing hashrate to P2Pools doesn't protect from that. P2Pool is a tiny piece in the puzzle of securing the network at best.

Another piece would be if the community and/or LLC joined the game and secured the network by aquiring additional mining power, either through renting rigs or purchasing ASICs. This was already suggested as an idea on the Karmashares forums IIRC.

In the interest of not getting this whole mining/algo/PoS discussion started again, I'll just shut up now. The team will work it out, I trust them to do whatever is best for Karma.

This is me speaking for self.

No one is blaming anyone as we don't have proof on who did what. But there has been speculation among a few of us that there is the possibility of a shadow pool or pools who are modifying their front ends to show one thing yet combining hash power in the back or have a private pool made up of huge hash power rigs that is working hidden to the public. Again we don't have any tangible proof on who is or is not doing this, however I will challenge you to look up all the pools you can find and then add up their hashrate. You will find that their is currently close to 1.5-2gh of net hash that is unaccounted for. And i think you would be foolish to think there are that many people solo mining. While asking people to mine at a p2pool is not a fix all it does put us one step forward in an attempt to spread the hash rate instead of having it all focused in one place. Hell for all we know you could be unknowing hashing away at a pool that is feeding this type of attack without you even having a clue. In the end to each is their own, if you switch to a p2pool or not that is up to you. But at least it was put out there on what could be happening and its up to you if you wish to react or not. The health of Karma and its security is very important the Karma Team and rest assured they are looking into doing what they can to make sure Karma remains secure for years to come.  
As I said, I have full faith in the team and am not worried at all.

Nobody has named anyone, but as a regular here I couldn't help but notice some bad Karma in the air concerning certain pools lately. Then this rumored attack takes place and suddenly everyone writes and tweets "OMG switch to P2Pool now". Didn't really feel right to me. Disclaimer: I personally do not mine anymore . I've always liked P2Pools though, so I would switch if the high electricity cost and the sharp drop in profitability hadn't forced me to dismantle my rigs.

IMO it most likely is an unknown/hidden pool. Heard about the Synology NAS mining malware that mined the creator 500 Million Dogecoin? He/She/They set up a private pool for that purpose and went unnoticed for months. Not saying that's happening here. But if you were - uhm lets say an industrial scale miner and sat on a fat and juicy Scrypt-Farm with a few hundred MH/s or even GH/s - would you mine in a public pool and pay fees to some stranger, or would you just set up your own, non-public, pool?

In both their posts they have attempted to get people to switch to their pool with the enticement of rewards and zero fees. It matters not what their intentions are - they are holding themselves out as promoting a pool through the use of negative speculation and baseless accusations.
This is simply not true. You are talking about me. I have asked multipool-eu's questions about why the operator would let 92% of the hash reside at them while still maintaining the idea they are "helping karma". they have not engaged in discussion about this at all, just full on ignore.

you can read my previous posts about pools. i have been a proponent of leaving multipool-eu on the list of pools and i have also requested people mine at ANY pool that had few miners. i am for full disclosure.

besides trying to thwart 51% on the karma blockchain for a while by adding a p2pool to the ecosystem i also stepped up and am running our blockexplorer when the prevoius one went down.

i also hosts a couple of wallets online so people can bootstrap onto the blockchain because the seed nodes have all been pulled be the previous devs.

i am not sure why you are attacking me. 51% attacks are very very serious, just look at all the cex fallout regarding bitcoin and their 12 hour streak.

i really really dislike your tone and insinuations.

i'll get back to you with the posts where i actively ask people to use any pool and the posts regarding questions about multipools motives but i have a life so not right now.

anyway... that is all for now, i'll get back to you with post links.

Firstly,  I limit my criticism to those posts in question - whoever they were made by.

Secondly, The theoretical potential for an attack is not justification for posting that one may or may not have happened and enticing people to use a certain pool - as was the case yesterday.

If it can be shown that there was verifiable evidence to justify the posts made then that would be a start. However, as I said earlier, this thread is usually the first port of call for many people who just want to get an idea of what a coin stands for and its future as perceived by the community. Knowing this, it is simply a bad idea to make posts in the nature of those that were made yesterday.

Concerns that have the potential to cause panic among the unwary should be brought to the attention of the developer privately, where the dev team can discuss them and come up with a solution if one is so required. There are ways of dealing with concerns - and I stand by what I have said; the way in which the concerns were publicly aired yesterday was not appropriate.

Speculation and rumor become problematic when people are encouraged to act on it.


Ok I am not going to explain everything that happened in detail, but I will point out a few key points in order to help you not continue to sound foolish.
First we were contacted by MintPal that an attack happened (for me when a major exchange contacts you direct that pretty much is all the proof I need that something might have happened). Second this happened at midnight USA Central time so there were but a few team members on that could discuss what course of action was needed to be taken (yes Kosmost was one of them). While it would have been easy to sweep this attack under the rug as some might have in order to not possibly affect their coin price, we decided to put our community first and our coin price second.  We are running a coin with honor and integrity so we decided to let the public know as soon as possible just in case they wanted to move their coins out of exchanges until the smoke cleared. While we were fortunate that this was but a minor attack we did not know that at the time and had to work with the info we had which was minimal. The last thing we wanted is to hold on to time sensitive information and then have our community pay the price by not having early warning. So after some discussion we decided on what we thought was the best course of action and as a result  Kosmost asked me to post the warning. As for asking people to switch to p2pools, well I already addressed why in earlier posts so I am not going to repeat myself. And no it was not to get people to join any one pool. If your read my post correctly I asked miners to switch to a p2pool of their choice. In time of crisis leaders have to make split second decisions on immediate courses of action in order to minimize damage not just to their coin but to the people that support their coin and  make it what it is. The KarmaTeam is made up of honorable hard working individuals that bust their butts on a daily bases to get us one step closer to achieving our vision for Karma and the Karmashares LLC. If you can't handle investing in a coin that is driven by a team with honor and integrity and that puts its community before their bottom line then maybe you would feel more comfortable investing in redcoin, mooncoin or pandacoin instead.
dips55tree
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June 19, 2014, 02:39:10 AM
 #2566

Does anybody know how many hits per day LILL is getting?  Last Kos posted was 3000 over a few days time frame.  So conservatively estimate 250 to 300 per day would be over a 100,00 per year.  I have a feeling we should be getting some advertisers soon.

Karmashares:   lill.com
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June 19, 2014, 02:46:03 AM
 #2567

I would be willing to donate 1 million karma to the Marketing team to promote LILL by giving 20,000 Karma for each person who registers on LILL.

Any thoughts?

Karmashares:   lill.com
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June 19, 2014, 02:46:44 AM
 #2568

In the words of the great Encyclopedia Galactica: DON'T PANIC

Did the "possible 51% attack" originate form a regular mining pool? I somehow doubt that. Prematurely blaming regular pools is IMO a bad move and definitely not good Karma. Isn't it much more likely that the attack was coming from an external actor, rather than the existing Karma mining community? What if it is related to the 1.5+ GH/s Nethash that were unaccounted for last week? Was it even an attack on the regular network or rather aimed at Mintpal directly? I'd like to see some facts before we rush to conclusions and point fingers.

If it was indeed a 51% attack, it is pretty much the scenario I and others were warning about in April. Because of the new ASICs several GH/s of mining power are suddenly at the whim of a few select people. Moving our existing hashrate to P2Pools doesn't protect from that. P2Pool is a tiny piece in the puzzle of securing the network at best.

Another piece would be if the community and/or LLC joined the game and secured the network by aquiring additional mining power, either through renting rigs or purchasing ASICs. This was already suggested as an idea on the Karmashares forums IIRC.

In the interest of not getting this whole mining/algo/PoS discussion started again, I'll just shut up now. The team will work it out, I trust them to do whatever is best for Karma.

This is me speaking for self.

No one is blaming anyone as we don't have proof on who did what. But there has been speculation among a few of us that there is the possibility of a shadow pool or pools who are modifying their front ends to show one thing yet combining hash power in the back or have a private pool made up of huge hash power rigs that is working hidden to the public. Again we don't have any tangible proof on who is or is not doing this, however I will challenge you to look up all the pools you can find and then add up their hashrate. You will find that their is currently close to 1.5-2gh of net hash that is unaccounted for. And i think you would be foolish to think there are that many people solo mining. While asking people to mine at a p2pool is not a fix all it does put us one step forward in an attempt to spread the hash rate instead of having it all focused in one place. Hell for all we know you could be unknowing hashing away at a pool that is feeding this type of attack without you even having a clue. In the end to each is their own, if you switch to a p2pool or not that is up to you. But at least it was put out there on what could be happening and its up to you if you wish to react or not. The health of Karma and its security is very important the Karma Team and rest assured they are looking into doing what they can to make sure Karma remains secure for years to come.  
As I said, I have full faith in the team and am not worried at all.

Nobody has named anyone, but as a regular here I couldn't help but notice some bad Karma in the air concerning certain pools lately. Then this rumored attack takes place and suddenly everyone writes and tweets "OMG switch to P2Pool now". Didn't really feel right to me. Disclaimer: I personally do not mine anymore . I've always liked P2Pools though, so I would switch if the high electricity cost and the sharp drop in profitability hadn't forced me to dismantle my rigs.

IMO it most likely is an unknown/hidden pool. Heard about the Synology NAS mining malware that mined the creator 500 Million Dogecoin? He/She/They set up a private pool for that purpose and went unnoticed for months. Not saying that's happening here. But if you were - uhm lets say an industrial scale miner and sat on a fat and juicy Scrypt-Farm with a few hundred MH/s or even GH/s - would you mine in a public pool and pay fees to some stranger, or would you just set up your own, non-public, pool?

In both their posts they have attempted to get people to switch to their pool with the enticement of rewards and zero fees. It matters not what their intentions are - they are holding themselves out as promoting a pool through the use of negative speculation and baseless accusations.
This is simply not true. You are talking about me. I have asked multipool-eu's questions about why the operator would let 92% of the hash reside at them while still maintaining the idea they are "helping karma". they have not engaged in discussion about this at all, just full on ignore.

you can read my previous posts about pools. i have been a proponent of leaving multipool-eu on the list of pools and i have also requested people mine at ANY pool that had few miners. i am for full disclosure.

besides trying to thwart 51% on the karma blockchain for a while by adding a p2pool to the ecosystem i also stepped up and am running our blockexplorer when the prevoius one went down.

i also hosts a couple of wallets online so people can bootstrap onto the blockchain because the seed nodes have all been pulled be the previous devs.

i am not sure why you are attacking me. 51% attacks are very very serious, just look at all the cex fallout regarding bitcoin and their 12 hour streak.

i really really dislike your tone and insinuations.

i'll get back to you with the posts where i actively ask people to use any pool and the posts regarding questions about multipools motives but i have a life so not right now.

anyway... that is all for now, i'll get back to you with post links.

Firstly,  I limit my criticism to those posts in question - whoever they were made by.

Secondly, The theoretical potential for an attack is not justification for posting that one may or may not have happened and enticing people to use a certain pool - as was the case yesterday.

If it can be shown that there was verifiable evidence to justify the posts made then that would be a start. However, as I said earlier, this thread is usually the first port of call for many people who just want to get an idea of what a coin stands for and its future as perceived by the community. Knowing this, it is simply a bad idea to make posts in the nature of those that were made yesterday.

Concerns that have the potential to cause panic among the unwary should be brought to the attention of the developer privately, where the dev team can discuss them and come up with a solution if one is so required. There are ways of dealing with concerns - and I stand by what I have said; the way in which the concerns were publicly aired yesterday was not appropriate.

Speculation and rumor become problematic when people are encouraged to act on it.


Ok I am not going to explain everything that happened in detail, but I will point out a few key points in order to help you not continue to sound foolish.
First we were contacted by MintPal that an attack happened (for me when a major exchange contacts you direct that pretty much is all the proof I need that something might have happened). Second this happened at midnight USA Central time so there were but a few team members on that could discuss what course of action was needed to be taken (yes Kosmost was one of them). While it would have been easy to sweep this attack under the rug as some might have in order to not possibly affect their coin price, we decided to put our community first and our coin price second.  We are running a coin with honor and integrity so we decided to let the public know as soon as possible just in case they wanted to move their coins out of exchanges until the smoke cleared. While we were fortunate that this was but a minor attack we did not know that at the time and had to work with the info we had which was minimal. The last thing we wanted is to hold on to time sensitive information and then have our community pay the price by not having early warning. So after some discussion we decided on what we thought was the best course of action and as a result  Kosmost asked me to post the warning. As for asking people to switch to p2pools, well I already addressed why in earlier posts so I am not going to repeat myself. And no it was not to get people to join any one pool. If your read my post correctly I asked miners to switch to a p2pool of their choice. In time of crisis leaders have to make split second decisions on immediate courses of action in order to minimize damage not just to their coin but to the people that support their coin and  make it what it is. The KarmaTeam is made up of honorable hard working individuals that bust their butts on a daily bases to get us one step closer to achieving our vision for Karma and the Karmashares LLC. If you can't handle investing in a coin that is driven by a team with honor and integrity and that puts its community before their bottom line then maybe you would feel more comfortable investing in redcoin, mooncoin or pandacoin instead.

That's a fair explanation of the action you have taken - it is just a pitty it was not included in the original post.

What is your official role in the Karmateam?

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June 19, 2014, 02:59:45 AM
 #2569

Less than 5 days before the reward goes to a 1/3.  Much on the horizon.

i cant wait. this is so close to us also jumping in btc market too. going to be 1/3 harder to mine this coin. and possible it will push off any multi pool from mining us for a period of time. the prices should shoot up much higher.

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June 19, 2014, 03:00:22 AM
 #2570

In the words of the great Encyclopedia Galactica: DON'T PANIC

Did the "possible 51% attack" originate form a regular mining pool? I somehow doubt that. Prematurely blaming regular pools is IMO a bad move and definitely not good Karma. Isn't it much more likely that the attack was coming from an external actor, rather than the existing Karma mining community? What if it is related to the 1.5+ GH/s Nethash that were unaccounted for last week? Was it even an attack on the regular network or rather aimed at Mintpal directly? I'd like to see some facts before we rush to conclusions and point fingers.

If it was indeed a 51% attack, it is pretty much the scenario I and others were warning about in April. Because of the new ASICs several GH/s of mining power are suddenly at the whim of a few select people. Moving our existing hashrate to P2Pools doesn't protect from that. P2Pool is a tiny piece in the puzzle of securing the network at best.

Another piece would be if the community and/or LLC joined the game and secured the network by aquiring additional mining power, either through renting rigs or purchasing ASICs. This was already suggested as an idea on the Karmashares forums IIRC.

In the interest of not getting this whole mining/algo/PoS discussion started again, I'll just shut up now. The team will work it out, I trust them to do whatever is best for Karma.

This is me speaking for self.

No one is blaming anyone as we don't have proof on who did what. But there has been speculation among a few of us that there is the possibility of a shadow pool or pools who are modifying their front ends to show one thing yet combining hash power in the back or have a private pool made up of huge hash power rigs that is working hidden to the public. Again we don't have any tangible proof on who is or is not doing this, however I will challenge you to look up all the pools you can find and then add up their hashrate. You will find that their is currently close to 1.5-2gh of net hash that is unaccounted for. And i think you would be foolish to think there are that many people solo mining. While asking people to mine at a p2pool is not a fix all it does put us one step forward in an attempt to spread the hash rate instead of having it all focused in one place. Hell for all we know you could be unknowing hashing away at a pool that is feeding this type of attack without you even having a clue. In the end to each is their own, if you switch to a p2pool or not that is up to you. But at least it was put out there on what could be happening and its up to you if you wish to react or not. The health of Karma and its security is very important the Karma Team and rest assured they are looking into doing what they can to make sure Karma remains secure for years to come.  
As I said, I have full faith in the team and am not worried at all.

Nobody has named anyone, but as a regular here I couldn't help but notice some bad Karma in the air concerning certain pools lately. Then this rumored attack takes place and suddenly everyone writes and tweets "OMG switch to P2Pool now". Didn't really feel right to me. Disclaimer: I personally do not mine anymore . I've always liked P2Pools though, so I would switch if the high electricity cost and the sharp drop in profitability hadn't forced me to dismantle my rigs.

IMO it most likely is an unknown/hidden pool. Heard about the Synology NAS mining malware that mined the creator 500 Million Dogecoin? He/She/They set up a private pool for that purpose and went unnoticed for months. Not saying that's happening here. But if you were - uhm lets say an industrial scale miner and sat on a fat and juicy Scrypt-Farm with a few hundred MH/s or even GH/s - would you mine in a public pool and pay fees to some stranger, or would you just set up your own, non-public, pool?

In both their posts they have attempted to get people to switch to their pool with the enticement of rewards and zero fees. It matters not what their intentions are - they are holding themselves out as promoting a pool through the use of negative speculation and baseless accusations.
This is simply not true. You are talking about me. I have asked multipool-eu's questions about why the operator would let 92% of the hash reside at them while still maintaining the idea they are "helping karma". they have not engaged in discussion about this at all, just full on ignore.

you can read my previous posts about pools. i have been a proponent of leaving multipool-eu on the list of pools and i have also requested people mine at ANY pool that had few miners. i am for full disclosure.

besides trying to thwart 51% on the karma blockchain for a while by adding a p2pool to the ecosystem i also stepped up and am running our blockexplorer when the prevoius one went down.

i also hosts a couple of wallets online so people can bootstrap onto the blockchain because the seed nodes have all been pulled be the previous devs.

i am not sure why you are attacking me. 51% attacks are very very serious, just look at all the cex fallout regarding bitcoin and their 12 hour streak.

i really really dislike your tone and insinuations.

i'll get back to you with the posts where i actively ask people to use any pool and the posts regarding questions about multipools motives but i have a life so not right now.

anyway... that is all for now, i'll get back to you with post links.

Firstly,  I limit my criticism to those posts in question - whoever they were made by.

Secondly, The theoretical potential for an attack is not justification for posting that one may or may not have happened and enticing people to use a certain pool - as was the case yesterday.

If it can be shown that there was verifiable evidence to justify the posts made then that would be a start. However, as I said earlier, this thread is usually the first port of call for many people who just want to get an idea of what a coin stands for and its future as perceived by the community. Knowing this, it is simply a bad idea to make posts in the nature of those that were made yesterday.

Concerns that have the potential to cause panic among the unwary should be brought to the attention of the developer privately, where the dev team can discuss them and come up with a solution if one is so required. There are ways of dealing with concerns - and I stand by what I have said; the way in which the concerns were publicly aired yesterday was not appropriate.

Speculation and rumor become problematic when people are encouraged to act on it.


Ok I am not going to explain everything that happened in detail, but I will point out a few key points in order to help you not continue to sound foolish.
First we were contacted by MintPal that an attack happened (for me when a major exchange contacts you direct that pretty much is all the proof I need that something might have happened). Second this happened at midnight USA Central time so there were but a few team members on that could discuss what course of action was needed to be taken (yes Kosmost was one of them). While it would have been easy to sweep this attack under the rug as some might have in order to not possibly affect their coin price, we decided to put our community first and our coin price second.  We are running a coin with honor and integrity so we decided to let the public know as soon as possible just in case they wanted to move their coins out of exchanges until the smoke cleared. While we were fortunate that this was but a minor attack we did not know that at the time and had to work with the info we had which was minimal. The last thing we wanted is to hold on to time sensitive information and then have our community pay the price by not having early warning. So after some discussion we decided on what we thought was the best course of action and as a result  Kosmost asked me to post the warning. As for asking people to switch to p2pools, well I already addressed why in earlier posts so I am not going to repeat myself. And no it was not to get people to join any one pool. If your read my post correctly I asked miners to switch to a p2pool of their choice. In time of crisis leaders have to make split second decisions on immediate courses of action in order to minimize damage not just to their coin but to the people that support their coin and  make it what it is. The KarmaTeam is made up of honorable hard working individuals that bust their butts on a daily bases to get us one step closer to achieving our vision for Karma and the Karmashares LLC. If you can't handle investing in a coin that is driven by a team with honor and integrity and that puts its community before their bottom line then maybe you would feel more comfortable investing in redcoin, mooncoin or pandacoin instead.

That's a fair explanation of the action you have taken - it is just a pitty it was not included in the original post.

What is your official role in the Karmateam?



   Due to my position in the real world I am unable to hold a formal position in the Karmashares LLC, so I pretty much work as a strategic advisor on any issues or situations that might fall within the realm of my expertise. Other than that, pretty much what ever role Kosmost or Shawn need me to portray.
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June 19, 2014, 03:03:35 AM
 #2571

Less than 5 days before the reward goes to a 1/3.  Much on the horizon.

i cant wait. this is so close to us also jumping in btc market too. going to be 1/3 harder to mine this coin. and possible it will push off any multi pool from mining us for a period of time. the prices should shoot up much higher.


Yes, and I get the feeling the team has been waiting for this as a marker for sharing more good news.

Karmashares:   lill.com
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June 19, 2014, 03:26:09 AM
 #2572

you'd be surprised how much cautious the team is. We have the "absolute no inside trading" motto. if any of us is caught using this info to create hype or fud we would be excluded from future news update.

in example if we get the heads up that we will hit the btc market , then us as news barrier are not allowed to sneak in a buy order before the news is announced. it would look very shady if you see a huge buy order in an exchange and then a massive good new. or even worse the opposite

our team, really, really strongly believes that this coin will be huge in near future and we think that we will go under regulation and future audits. So we are really cautious on how we deal with any karma coin info.

it kind of sucks for some of us because we can not express any hype excitement or have biased opinions. I wished i could go all 40 font and all caps and say this coin gonna be huge! i can't , because even though i do believe it will in future, at this moment i represent a person who is in the known of the coin and it could be considered inside trading. and even worse if it hits a bump and dives a lot of people could accuse me because i am part of the team and i sold inside trading to my advantage or something.

haha see what i mean.. already lost in a tangent
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June 19, 2014, 03:39:58 AM
 #2573

Informing our community of a possible problem was the right thing to do (of course)

Any other suggestion that we should have not mentioned it is FOOLISH.

To suggest that we ignore the temporary change at MintPal to 200 confirmations (especially when the community had already brought it up) is ludicrous.

It was my insistence that we inform the community, because that was the right thing to do. How someone wants to interpret the post(s) that were made is up to them, but there was never a cause for alarm.

End of discussion.

We waste too much time on petty nonsense. First we obsessed about price for 20+ pages, now it's this..

Surely we can be more productive Smiley

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June 19, 2014, 03:40:08 AM
 #2574

you'd be surprised how much cautious the team is. We have the "absolute no inside trading" motto. if any of us is caught using this info to create hype or fud we would be excluded from future news update.

in example if we get the heads up that we will hit the btc market , then us as news barrier are not allowed to sneak in a buy order before the news is announced. it would look very shady if you see a huge buy order in an exchange and then a massive good new. or even worse the opposite

our team, really, really strongly believes that this coin will be huge in near future and we think that we will go under regulation and future audits. So we are really cautious on how we deal with any karma coin info.

it kind of sucks for some of us because we can not express any hype excitement or have biased opinions. I wished i could go all 40 font and all caps and say this coin gonna be huge! i can't , because even though i do believe it will in future, at this moment i represent a person who is in the known of the coin and it could be considered inside trading. and even worse if it hits a bump and dives a lot of people could accuse me because i am part of the team and i sold inside trading to my advantage or something.

haha see what i mean.. already lost in a tangent

I absolutely understand....I was in the security business for several years.

Being cautious is an understatement when it comes to that stuff...lol.  

Keep up the good work.  My best contribution at the moment is to help fund promotions or charities.  No technical wizardry in these fingers.

Would like to donate to promote getting more people to register with LILL.  I just get the feeling there is so much in the works the timing isn't quite right for that just yet.  I will send the marketing group a note to get some feed back.




Karmashares:   lill.com
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June 19, 2014, 03:42:43 AM
 #2575

you'd be surprised how much cautious the team is. We have the "absolute no inside trading" motto. if any of us is caught using this info to create hype or fud we would be excluded from future news update.

in example if we get the heads up that we will hit the btc market , then us as news barrier are not allowed to sneak in a buy order before the news is announced. it would look very shady if you see a huge buy order in an exchange and then a massive good new. or even worse the opposite

our team, really, really strongly believes that this coin will be huge in near future and we think that we will go under regulation and future audits. So we are really cautious on how we deal with any karma coin info.

it kind of sucks for some of us because we can not express any hype excitement or have biased opinions. I wished i could go all 40 font and all caps and say this coin gonna be huge! i can't , because even though i do believe it will in future, at this moment i represent a person who is in the known of the coin and it could be considered inside trading. and even worse if it hits a bump and dives a lot of people could accuse me because i am part of the team and i sold inside trading to my advantage or something.

haha see what i mean.. already lost in a tangent


The funny thing is.. the community knows everything we do because it's posted on the forums.

Sure, we'd like to keep things like our participation in BTC Chicago secret but then we'd lose out on participation. We can still make a splash with an official announcement.

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June 19, 2014, 03:43:18 AM
 #2576

Where is the KARM / BTC market? http://karmashares.com/forums/index.php/topic,338.0.html

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June 19, 2014, 03:50:51 AM
 #2577

Yes, shouldn't be too much longer.

Any updates on LILL searches per day?

Karmashares:   lill.com
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June 19, 2014, 03:53:24 AM
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Excellent news. The beauty of it is that because we all want to see a BTC pairing again all of us will be prepared to front up the litecoin to keep it above 150 - should it even be necessary. I personally have around 4 BTC in my 'reserve wallet' that I have not converted to Litecoin (for obvious reasons) that I would be prepared to use to keep the price above 150 Litoshi for the required time - not that that will even be necessary. I know there are some big boys out there who are loaded with Bitcoin and invested in this coin quite heavily who would also keep things stable.

Great work!
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June 19, 2014, 06:59:47 AM
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In the words of the great Encyclopedia Galactica: DON'T PANIC

Did the "possible 51% attack" originate form a regular mining pool? I somehow doubt that. Prematurely blaming regular pools is IMO a bad move and definitely not good Karma. Isn't it much more likely that the attack was coming from an external actor, rather than the existing Karma mining community? What if it is related to the 1.5+ GH/s Nethash that were unaccounted for last week? Was it even an attack on the regular network or rather aimed at Mintpal directly? I'd like to see some facts before we rush to conclusions and point fingers.

If it was indeed a 51% attack, it is pretty much the scenario I and others were warning about in April. Because of the new ASICs several GH/s of mining power are suddenly at the whim of a few select people. Moving our existing hashrate to P2Pools doesn't protect from that. P2Pool is a tiny piece in the puzzle of securing the network at best.

Another piece would be if the community and/or LLC joined the game and secured the network by aquiring additional mining power, either through renting rigs or purchasing ASICs. This was already suggested as an idea on the Karmashares forums IIRC.

In the interest of not getting this whole mining/algo/PoS discussion started again, I'll just shut up now. The team will work it out, I trust them to do whatever is best for Karma.

This is me speaking for self.

No one is blaming anyone as we don't have proof on who did what. But there has been speculation among a few of us that there is the possibility of a shadow pool or pools who are modifying their front ends to show one thing yet combining hash power in the back or have a private pool made up of huge hash power rigs that is working hidden to the public. Again we don't have any tangible proof on who is or is not doing this, however I will challenge you to look up all the pools you can find and then add up their hashrate. You will find that their is currently close to 1.5-2gh of net hash that is unaccounted for. And i think you would be foolish to think there are that many people solo mining. While asking people to mine at a p2pool is not a fix all it does put us one step forward in an attempt to spread the hash rate instead of having it all focused in one place. Hell for all we know you could be unknowing hashing away at a pool that is feeding this type of attack without you even having a clue. In the end to each is their own, if you switch to a p2pool or not that is up to you. But at least it was put out there on what could be happening and its up to you if you wish to react or not. The health of Karma and its security is very important the Karma Team and rest assured they are looking into doing what they can to make sure Karma remains secure for years to come.  
As I said, I have full faith in the team and am not worried at all.

Nobody has named anyone, but as a regular here I couldn't help but notice some bad Karma in the air concerning certain pools lately. Then this rumored attack takes place and suddenly everyone writes and tweets "OMG switch to P2Pool now". Didn't really feel right to me. Disclaimer: I personally do not mine anymore . I've always liked P2Pools though, so I would switch if the high electricity cost and the sharp drop in profitability hadn't forced me to dismantle my rigs.

IMO it most likely is an unknown/hidden pool. Heard about the Synology NAS mining malware that mined the creator 500 Million Dogecoin? He/She/They set up a private pool for that purpose and went unnoticed for months. Not saying that's happening here. But if you were - uhm lets say an industrial scale miner and sat on a fat and juicy Scrypt-Farm with a few hundred MH/s or even GH/s - would you mine in a public pool and pay fees to some stranger, or would you just set up your own, non-public, pool?

In both their posts they have attempted to get people to switch to their pool with the enticement of rewards and zero fees. It matters not what their intentions are - they are holding themselves out as promoting a pool through the use of negative speculation and baseless accusations.
This is simply not true. You are talking about me. I have asked multipool-eu's questions about why the operator would let 92% of the hash reside at them while still maintaining the idea they are "helping karma". they have not engaged in discussion about this at all, just full on ignore.

you can read my previous posts about pools. i have been a proponent of leaving multipool-eu on the list of pools and i have also requested people mine at ANY pool that had few miners. i am for full disclosure.

besides trying to thwart 51% on the karma blockchain for a while by adding a p2pool to the ecosystem i also stepped up and am running our blockexplorer when the prevoius one went down.

i also hosts a couple of wallets online so people can bootstrap onto the blockchain because the seed nodes have all been pulled be the previous devs.

i am not sure why you are attacking me. 51% attacks are very very serious, just look at all the cex fallout regarding bitcoin and their 12 hour streak.

i really really dislike your tone and insinuations.

i'll get back to you with the posts where i actively ask people to use any pool and the posts regarding questions about multipools motives but i have a life so not right now.

anyway... that is all for now, i'll get back to you with post links.

Firstly,  I limit my criticism to those posts in question - whoever they were made by.

Secondly, The theoretical potential for an attack is not justification for posting that one may or may not have happened and enticing people to use a certain pool - as was the case yesterday.

If it can be shown that there was verifiable evidence to justify the posts made then that would be a start. However, as I said earlier, this thread is usually the first port of call for many people who just want to get an idea of what a coin stands for and its future as perceived by the community. Knowing this, it is simply a bad idea to make posts in the nature of those that were made yesterday.

Concerns that have the potential to cause panic among the unwary should be brought to the attention of the developer privately, where the dev team can discuss them and come up with a solution if one is so required. There are ways of dealing with concerns - and I stand by what I have said; the way in which the concerns were publicly aired yesterday was not appropriate.

Speculation and rumor become problematic when people are encouraged to act on it.

Could you point me to where i said this, because I can't find it myself.... You are accusing me of something, please provide proof.

and if you don't because you can't because i never said this you are slanderous. do you know what false accusations and slander mean? 

also your lack of backing up what you previously attacked me for like not answering any of my questions but just throwing more accusations around is really embarrasing not only to yourself but the everyone who has to read it, and certainly me who has to defend himself against your FUD.

Quote from: catwiki
Speculation and rumor become problematic when people are encouraged to act on it.
Coming from you that is comedy gold. You throw around accusations against me and when i try to talk about them you ignore it at move forward with new speculations. Just trolling at max speed.
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June 19, 2014, 07:18:41 AM
 #2580

hehe alright now. Let's move on?  


We sure need some more people testing lill.com. Support for karma or at least constant mention of karma is increasing alot between facebook users involved in crypto world. Maybe we should ask them as well to get involved?
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