Bitcoin Forum
May 25, 2019, 06:48:21 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.18.0 [Torrent] (New!)
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 ... 718 719 720 721 722 723 724 725 726 727 728 729 730 731 732 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 740 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 751 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 759 760 761 762 763 764 765 766 767 [768] 769 770 771 772 773 774 775 776 777 778 779 780 781 782 783 784 785 786 787 788 789 790 791 792 793 794 795 796 797 798 799 800 801 802 803 804 805 806 807 808 809 810 811 812 813 814 815 816 817 818 ... 2039 »
  Print  
Author Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency  (Read 4560995 times)
AdamWhite
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 607
Merit: 500



View Profile
October 05, 2014, 05:51:24 PM
 #15341

I can't believe that changing the emission curve is being discussed in page 800+ of this thread. If the emission curve was such a problem it would have been fixed immediately. XMR's emission curve is what it is so enough already with the emission curve please.
1558810101
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1558810101

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1558810101
Reply with quote  #2

1558810101
Report to moderator
1558810101
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1558810101

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1558810101
Reply with quote  #2

1558810101
Report to moderator
GET 25 FREE SPINS AT REGISTRATION
GET 100% BONUS ON FIRST DEPOSIT
PLAY NOW
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
Nekomata
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 99
Merit: 10


View Profile
October 05, 2014, 05:58:24 PM
Last edit: April 19, 2015, 05:26:21 AM by Nekomata
 #15342

XMR is the future.
dga
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 737
Merit: 511


View Profile WWW
October 05, 2014, 05:59:22 PM
Last edit: October 05, 2014, 07:43:08 PM by dga
 #15343

Submitting for comment / review before I send a pull request with this:

I've added comments and documentation about the CryptoNight proof-of-work function and its implementation to the slow-hash.c file, as part of the code cleanup and documentation effort.

https://github.com/dave-andersen/bitmonero/blob/master/src/crypto/slow-hash.c

(The most recent two three commits in the repository will show what I added).

Comments welcomed and appreciated before I send a pull request - in particular, if there are spots people feel are still unclear or errors/badness in the documentation, I'd love to get them fixed before making fluffypony and crew do more work. Smiley

robinwilliams
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 112
Merit: 10


View Profile
October 05, 2014, 06:46:43 PM
 #15344

If the problem is there is too short a time before the emission runs out, simply double the final supply.

Changing the emission is a ridiculous concept. Then what differentiates you from any other BCN fork? Oh wait, it was an ultra-fair community premine for the fairest coin that ever existed because.. because.. it was the first fork of BCN that conforms to our ever-changing concept of fairness!! In other words, Monero is fair because it is Monero.

DRK had too much of an instamine, a little is OK and completely justified because the "community" did it. Wink

As I said before, touching the total number of coins is touching in the fundamentals but touching in the emission curve is a fixing the problem of almost instamine.


there will be less backlash from future potential investors if we punish early adopters by inflating total supply to double it which would punish early adopters at the same time as rewarding them (by slowing down release schedule / lowering supply)

this is the only thing that makes sense.

the goal is to avoid scam / get rich quick accusations and spread adoption here.  not increase our holdings instantly (make the pie bigger vs get more of the pie)
Oscilson
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434
Merit: 250



View Profile
October 05, 2014, 07:52:24 PM
 #15345

We can keep the same total amount, but slow down the release of the rest of the coins.
Come-In-Behind
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


View Profile
October 05, 2014, 07:55:37 PM
 #15346

I say, double the max supply of coins, instead of slowing down the emission.
mr_random
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000



View Profile
October 05, 2014, 08:33:50 PM
 #15347

People who say you can't slow down emission because it looks like a scam... well in a few years 99% of all the currency will be emitted, how will that look like to newcomers (a scam?)

The instamine period is all relative. Even 4 years will look like an instamine in the context of 50 years.

                                           ▄▄███████▄▄
      ▄▄███████▄▄                       ▄███████████████▄      ▄▄███████▄▄
   ▄███████████████▄    ▄▄███████▄▄    ███████████████████  ▄███████████████▄      ▄▄███████▄▄
  ██████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀█████▄███████████████▄██████▌  ▐███▀▀▀████████████▀▀▀▀▀███████  ▄███████████████▄
 ███████   ▄▄▄▄▄████
█████████▀▀▀▀▀██████████   ███▌  ▐█████████     ▄▄▄███████████████████████████
████████   ▀▀▀▀██████████      ▄▄▄█████████▌   ▀▀▀   ██████████   ▀▀▀▀██████████████   ███   ██████
████████   ▄▄▄▄█████████████▌  ▐███████████   ▄▄▄▄   ██████████▌   ▄▄▄███████████████   ▀   ████████
████████   ▀▀▀▀▀████████████▌  ▐██████████▌  ▐███▌  ▐██████████▌   ▀▀   ██████████████▌   ▐█████████
 ███████▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄██
███████████   █████████████████▄▄▄████████████   ▄▄▄███████████████   ▄   ████████
  ███████████████████████████   ████████▀███████████████▀  █████████████████████████   ███   ██████
   ▀███████████████▀███████████████████    ▀▀███████▀▀      ▀███████████████▀  ███████████████████
      ▀▀███████▀▀    ▀███████████████▀                         ▀▀███████▀▀      ▀███████████████▀
                        ▀▀███████▀▀                                                ▀▀███████▀▀
.BET█▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀











█▄▄▄▄▄▄▄


██▄▄        ▄▄██
████
██████████████
███████
███████████
 █████
███████████
 ▄██████████████▄
▄████████████████▄
██████████████████
▐██████████████▌
 ▀▀    ▀▀▀▀    ▀▀
.
PLAY NOW
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀█











▄▄▄▄▄▄▄█
TooDumbForBitcoin
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1638
Merit: 1001



View Profile
October 05, 2014, 08:36:03 PM
 #15348

I say, double the total amount, cut the emission by 75%, increase the block time to 2 minutes, change the name to rune, change to POS, do hard fork, air drop, time warp and make double spends mandatory.

Something for everyone.

Oh, and change r and k for TheFracturedMind.



▄▄                                  ▄▄
 ███▄                            ▄███
  ██████                      ██████
   ███████                  ███████
    ███████                ███████
     ███████              ███████
      ███████            ███████
       ███████▄▄      ▄▄███████
        ██████████████████████
         ████████████████████
          ██████████████████
           ████████████████
            ██████████████
             ███████████
              █████████
               ███████
                █████
                 ██
                  █
veil|     PRIVACY    
     WITHOUT COMPROMISE.      
▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂
|   NO ICO. NO PREMINE. 
   X16RT GPU Mining. Fair distribution.  
|      The first Zerocoin-based Cryptocurrency      
   WITH ALWAYS-ON PRIVACY.  
|



                   ▄▄████
              ▄▄████████▌
         ▄▄█████████▀███
    ▄▄██████████▀▀ ▄███▌
▄████████████▀▀  ▄█████
▀▀▀███████▀   ▄███████▌
      ██    ▄█████████
       █  ▄██████████▌
       █  ███████████
       █ ██▀ ▀██████▌
       ██▀     ▀████
                 ▀█▌




   ▄███████
   ████████
   ███▀
   ███
██████████
██████████
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███




     ▄▄█▀▀ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ▀▀█▄▄
   ▐██▄▄██████████████▄▄██▌
   ████████████████████████
  ▐████████████████████████▌
  ███████▀▀▀██████▀▀▀███████
 ▐██████     ████     ██████▌
 ███████     ████     ███████
▐████████▄▄▄██████▄▄▄████████▌
▐████████████████████████████▌
 █████▄▄▀▀▀▀██████▀▀▀▀▄▄█████
  ▀▀██████          ██████▀▀
      ▀▀▀            ▀▀▀
dEBRUYNE
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1778
Merit: 1102


View Profile
October 05, 2014, 08:40:46 PM
 #15349

People who say you can't slow down emission because it looks like a scam... well in a few years 99% of all the currency will be emitted, how will that look like to newcomers (a scam?)

The instamine period is all relative. Even 4 years will look like an instamine in the context of 50 years.

Agree with that, IIRC rpietila said that in 4 years around 87% would be mined. That's way to much in my opinion.

Privacy matters, use Monero - A true untraceable cryptocurrency
Why Monero matters? http://weuse.cash/2016/03/05/bitcoiners-hedge-your-position/
smooth
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2142
Merit: 1129



View Profile
October 05, 2014, 09:16:21 PM
 #15350

Quote
On the other hand, it does make sense to speak of 40% of the coins that will be mined during the initial period of faster mining. It isn't quite as clear what that means though, but it does make this whole emissions curve sound a bit more like an instamine doesn't it?

Maybe I'm a little slow but if the concept of 40% of the coins doesn't exist, how can you use it to compare it to an instamine?


What I meant was when you start talking about some percentage of some "initial period of faster mining" (and that is the only correct way to discuss percentages here) that sounds to me more like the system being set up from the start like an instamine, fast mine, etc. The faster period in this case is several years before emissions slow to some tail level.

Quote
I just can't see how the emissions can be changed after a very significant % has been mined.  

It is a simple change to one or a few lines of code. I'm pretty sure that's not what you meant though, but that is literally the case. So "can be changed" is not really the issue, it is more like whether people want it changed. Ultimately it comes down to consensus of the community.

nioc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1624
Merit: 1008


View Profile
October 05, 2014, 09:35:06 PM
 #15351

Quote
On the other hand, it does make sense to speak of 40% of the coins that will be mined during the initial period of faster mining. It isn't quite as clear what that means though, but it does make this whole emissions curve sound a bit more like an instamine doesn't it?

Maybe I'm a little slow but if the concept of 40% of the coins doesn't exist, how can you use it to compare it to an instamine?


What I meant was when you start talking about some percentage of some "initial period of faster mining" (and that is the only correct way to discuss percentages here) that sounds to me more like the system being set up from the start like an instamine, fast mine, etc. The faster period in this case is several years before emissions slow to some tail level.

Quote
I just can't see how the emissions can be changed after a very significant % has been mined.  

It is a simple change to one or a few lines of code. I'm pretty sure that's not what you meant though, but that is literally the case. So "can be changed" is not really the issue, it is more like whether people want it changed. Ultimately it comes down to consensus of the community.



Thank you for responding to The Drooling Masses®

Luckily we have many very knowledgeable and capable people in the community.  I'm looking forward to their input in the appropriate venue.
5w00p
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 644
Merit: 502



View Profile
October 05, 2014, 09:54:43 PM
 #15352

What if the emission curve remains untouched, and mining revenue migrates to a larger percentage of it being generated via fees, which come about with greater adoption in an actual functioning Monero Ecosystem, aka more transactions per block?
silencesilence
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1078
Merit: 1000


View Profile WWW
October 05, 2014, 10:03:18 PM
 #15353

MEGA BOT  Grin

poloniex
2014-10-05 20:55:19   Buy   0.0027892   3   0.0083676
2014-10-05 20:55:17   Sell   0.00276024   2.994   0.00826416
2014-10-05 20:53:19   Buy   0.00278931   3   0.00836793
2014-10-05 20:53:17   Sell   0.00276112   2.994   0.00826679
2014-10-05 20:51:19   Buy   0.00278887   3   0.00836661
2014-10-05 20:51:16   Sell   0.0027609   2.994   0.00826613
2014-10-05 20:49:18   Buy   0.00278909   3   0.00836727
2014-10-05 20:49:17   Sell   0.00276068   2.994   0.00826548
2014-10-05 20:47:18   Buy   0.00278931   3   0.00836793
2014-10-05 20:47:16   Sell   0.00276046   2.994   0.00826482
2014-10-05 20:45:18   Buy   0.00278909   3   0.00836727
2014-10-05 20:45:17   Sell   0.00276024   2.994   0.00826416
2014-10-05 20:43:18   Buy   0.00278931   3   0.00836793
2014-10-05 20:43:16   Sell   0.00276101   2.994   0.00826646
2014-10-05 20:41:18   Buy   0.00278931   3   0.00836793
2014-10-05 20:41:16   Sell   0.0027609   2.994   0.00826613
2014-10-05 20:39:19   Buy   0.00278909   3   0.00836727
TooDumbForBitcoin
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1638
Merit: 1001



View Profile
October 05, 2014, 10:20:33 PM
 #15354

What if the emission curve remains untouched, and mining revenue migrates to a larger percentage of it being generated via fees, which come about with greater adoption in an actual functioning Monero Ecosystem, aka more transactions per block?

Not bad, how about this:

The emission curve gets retouched by a certified plastic surgeon, the mining revenue migrates to latitudes below 30 degrees (just for winter), we put the ring signatures up for adoption, and we block all transactions?

Anyone?




▄▄                                  ▄▄
 ███▄                            ▄███
  ██████                      ██████
   ███████                  ███████
    ███████                ███████
     ███████              ███████
      ███████            ███████
       ███████▄▄      ▄▄███████
        ██████████████████████
         ████████████████████
          ██████████████████
           ████████████████
            ██████████████
             ███████████
              █████████
               ███████
                █████
                 ██
                  █
veil|     PRIVACY    
     WITHOUT COMPROMISE.      
▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂
|   NO ICO. NO PREMINE. 
   X16RT GPU Mining. Fair distribution.  
|      The first Zerocoin-based Cryptocurrency      
   WITH ALWAYS-ON PRIVACY.  
|



                   ▄▄████
              ▄▄████████▌
         ▄▄█████████▀███
    ▄▄██████████▀▀ ▄███▌
▄████████████▀▀  ▄█████
▀▀▀███████▀   ▄███████▌
      ██    ▄█████████
       █  ▄██████████▌
       █  ███████████
       █ ██▀ ▀██████▌
       ██▀     ▀████
                 ▀█▌




   ▄███████
   ████████
   ███▀
   ███
██████████
██████████
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███




     ▄▄█▀▀ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ▀▀█▄▄
   ▐██▄▄██████████████▄▄██▌
   ████████████████████████
  ▐████████████████████████▌
  ███████▀▀▀██████▀▀▀███████
 ▐██████     ████     ██████▌
 ███████     ████     ███████
▐████████▄▄▄██████▄▄▄████████▌
▐████████████████████████████▌
 █████▄▄▀▀▀▀██████▀▀▀▀▄▄█████
  ▀▀██████          ██████▀▀
      ▀▀▀            ▀▀▀
5w00p
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 644
Merit: 502



View Profile
October 05, 2014, 10:31:59 PM
 #15355

What if the emission curve remains untouched, and mining revenue migrates to a larger percentage of it being generated via fees, which come about with greater adoption in an actual functioning Monero Ecosystem, aka more transactions per block?

Not bad, how about this:

The emission curve gets retouched by a certified plastic surgeon, the mining revenue migrates to latitudes below 30 degrees (just for winter), we put the ring signatures up for adoption, and we block all transactions?

Anyone?



I will give you 100 XMR if the Devs can implement all that, and I will Ddose the BloatCoinExpress, unless you give me 15 Fiats in the next 72k Ithaca hours.
TooDumbForBitcoin
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1638
Merit: 1001



View Profile
October 05, 2014, 10:36:56 PM
 #15356

What if the emission curve remains untouched, and mining revenue migrates to a larger percentage of it being generated via fees, which come about with greater adoption in an actual functioning Monero Ecosystem, aka more transactions per block?

Not bad, how about this:

The emission curve gets retouched by a certified plastic surgeon, the mining revenue migrates to latitudes below 30 degrees (just for winter), we put the ring signatures up for adoption, and we block all transactions?

Anyone?



I will give you 100 XMR if the Devs can implement all that, and I will Ddose the BloatCoinExpress, unless you give me 15 Fiats in the next 72k Ithaca hours.

Escrow?



▄▄                                  ▄▄
 ███▄                            ▄███
  ██████                      ██████
   ███████                  ███████
    ███████                ███████
     ███████              ███████
      ███████            ███████
       ███████▄▄      ▄▄███████
        ██████████████████████
         ████████████████████
          ██████████████████
           ████████████████
            ██████████████
             ███████████
              █████████
               ███████
                █████
                 ██
                  █
veil|     PRIVACY    
     WITHOUT COMPROMISE.      
▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂
|   NO ICO. NO PREMINE. 
   X16RT GPU Mining. Fair distribution.  
|      The first Zerocoin-based Cryptocurrency      
   WITH ALWAYS-ON PRIVACY.  
|



                   ▄▄████
              ▄▄████████▌
         ▄▄█████████▀███
    ▄▄██████████▀▀ ▄███▌
▄████████████▀▀  ▄█████
▀▀▀███████▀   ▄███████▌
      ██    ▄█████████
       █  ▄██████████▌
       █  ███████████
       █ ██▀ ▀██████▌
       ██▀     ▀████
                 ▀█▌




   ▄███████
   ████████
   ███▀
   ███
██████████
██████████
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███




     ▄▄█▀▀ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ▀▀█▄▄
   ▐██▄▄██████████████▄▄██▌
   ████████████████████████
  ▐████████████████████████▌
  ███████▀▀▀██████▀▀▀███████
 ▐██████     ████     ██████▌
 ███████     ████     ███████
▐████████▄▄▄██████▄▄▄████████▌
▐████████████████████████████▌
 █████▄▄▀▀▀▀██████▀▀▀▀▄▄█████
  ▀▀██████          ██████▀▀
      ▀▀▀            ▀▀▀
5w00p
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 644
Merit: 502



View Profile
October 05, 2014, 10:53:13 PM
 #15357

Sure, I will escrow to an XMR wallet, iftofor a wallet which I will control the private keys, thereby rendering the escrow account to an inaudible spoken word walletcryption factor of 5, when i(z) ~ Sigma 9coin emissions in hydrocarbons0.

Deal-scammerZ?
TooDumbForBitcoin
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1638
Merit: 1001



View Profile
October 05, 2014, 11:07:14 PM
 #15358

Sure, I will escrow to an XMR wallet, iftofor a wallet which I will control the private keys, thereby rendering the escrow account to an inaudible spoken word walletcryption factor of 5, when i(z) ~ Sigma 9coin emissions in hydrocarbons0.

Deal-scammerZ?

That's just what I thought you would say.



▄▄                                  ▄▄
 ███▄                            ▄███
  ██████                      ██████
   ███████                  ███████
    ███████                ███████
     ███████              ███████
      ███████            ███████
       ███████▄▄      ▄▄███████
        ██████████████████████
         ████████████████████
          ██████████████████
           ████████████████
            ██████████████
             ███████████
              █████████
               ███████
                █████
                 ██
                  █
veil|     PRIVACY    
     WITHOUT COMPROMISE.      
▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂
|   NO ICO. NO PREMINE. 
   X16RT GPU Mining. Fair distribution.  
|      The first Zerocoin-based Cryptocurrency      
   WITH ALWAYS-ON PRIVACY.  
|



                   ▄▄████
              ▄▄████████▌
         ▄▄█████████▀███
    ▄▄██████████▀▀ ▄███▌
▄████████████▀▀  ▄█████
▀▀▀███████▀   ▄███████▌
      ██    ▄█████████
       █  ▄██████████▌
       █  ███████████
       █ ██▀ ▀██████▌
       ██▀     ▀████
                 ▀█▌




   ▄███████
   ████████
   ███▀
   ███
██████████
██████████
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███
   ███




     ▄▄█▀▀ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ▀▀█▄▄
   ▐██▄▄██████████████▄▄██▌
   ████████████████████████
  ▐████████████████████████▌
  ███████▀▀▀██████▀▀▀███████
 ▐██████     ████     ██████▌
 ███████     ████     ███████
▐████████▄▄▄██████▄▄▄████████▌
▐████████████████████████████▌
 █████▄▄▀▀▀▀██████▀▀▀▀▄▄█████
  ▀▀██████          ██████▀▀
      ▀▀▀            ▀▀▀
e-coinomist
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1652
Merit: 1052


Money often costs too much.


View Profile
October 06, 2014, 12:05:34 AM
 #15359

I say, double the total amount, cut the emission by 75%, increase the block time to 2 minutes, change the name to rune, change to POS, do hard fork, air drop, time warp and make double spends mandatory.

Something for everyone.

Oh, and change r and k for TheFracturedMind.

Increased block time could tackle the bloat issue? Perhaps worth a thought.
Just BTX's time warp seem to be postphoned now.

I'm okay with changing to POS. Goes well along with changing mining emission rates.
smooth
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2142
Merit: 1129



View Profile
October 06, 2014, 12:22:59 AM
 #15360

Increased block time could tackle the bloat issue? Perhaps worth a thought.

We view block time as being entirely a technical consideration and very changeable, as long as the emission curve is adjusted to compensate (so 2x block time would have 2x reward per block and vice versa. and the rate of emission over time would be unchanged).

The block time will likely be slowed a bit at some point relatively soon unless usage picks up a lot since it is wasteful to have so many empty blocks, and the likely sped up, perhaps a lot, in the future when usage increases (and also technology improvements such as Gavin's protocol might reduce orphans).

But in every case this is independent of emission curve.
Pages: « 1 ... 718 719 720 721 722 723 724 725 726 727 728 729 730 731 732 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 740 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 751 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 759 760 761 762 763 764 765 766 767 [768] 769 770 771 772 773 774 775 776 777 778 779 780 781 782 783 784 785 786 787 788 789 790 791 792 793 794 795 796 797 798 799 800 801 802 803 804 805 806 807 808 809 810 811 812 813 814 815 816 817 818 ... 2039 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!