Bitcoin Forum
April 22, 2019, 11:27:55 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.17.1 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 ... 765 766 767 768 769 770 771 772 773 774 775 776 777 778 779 780 781 782 783 784 785 786 787 788 789 790 791 792 793 794 795 796 797 798 799 800 801 802 803 804 805 806 807 808 809 810 811 812 813 814 [815] 816 817 818 819 820 821 822 823 824 825 826 827 828 829 830 831 832 833 834 835 836 837 838 839 840 841 842 843 844 845 846 847 848 849 850 851 852 853 854 855 856 857 858 859 860 861 862 863 864 865 ... 2035 »
  Print  
Author Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency  (Read 4554141 times)
dEBRUYNE
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1736
Merit: 1099


View Profile
October 27, 2014, 05:45:00 PM
 #16281

EXCELLENT points guys!  My faith in the concept of a non-transparent blockchain is restored.  But will Monero be the One?  It sounds like ZeroCash has a lot of people very interested but it hasn't been released yet.  Is Boolberry the next best thing in CryptoNote?  What does BBR have going for it that XMR doesn't?

Quoting eizh on reddit for the comparison between BBR and XMR

Quote
The two major departures are:
(1) The PoW as it uses block header hashes as a scratchpad. This was intended to get a faster hashrate for verification purposes. It resulted in scrypt-like differences in CPU v. GPU hashpower. This itself led to concentrated distribution due to closed source private miners acquiring large portions of the network.
(2) It removes old ring signatures from the blockchain under a checkpoint. This is questionable because it pre-supposes consensus. The BBR dev himself referred to it as "Not the best solution, maybe we gonna find something more nice."
I like the alias feature, though it should come with some fee in order to prevent meaningless bloating.

Quote
I should add that BBR also already has a good GUI. It's in beta, but it's an "official" beta whereas XMR has several unofficial GUIs in beta. XMR won't make one official until the GUI development contest ends on July 1st.
Overall, I would say BBR is more experimental with respect to the CryptoNote reference code (i.e. BCN) while XMR is more conservative. Think of it as Litecoin vs. Peercoin. LTC went with simple changes to the reference (BTC) while PPC changed some things starkly -- namely PoW to PoW/PoS hybrid.
Of course, not everything has worked out for either coin. LTC has trouble justifying its existence and use while PPC has to deal with centralized checkpointing and hoarding. There are no direct parallels, but this can help non-technical people get a sense of the difference.
Make your investment allocations based on your judgement of merits, but it's silly to call a pretty different coin "Monero on steroids" because it's not Monero.

According to aminorex zerocoin/zerocash has some serious issues.

the winner will be taken once zerocash is out - anc failed so miserably that I think it is dead.

I think we will see the classical situation of two networks competing - the dominant ledger from the cryptonote implementations which is by no question monero and the dominat zerocash implementation.

from a game-theoretic point odds for monero are not that bad, it will strongly depend how zerocash is distributed.

zerocash has data size and compute time issues which make it unsuitable for many uses cases of xmr.  
it also has the trusted mint problem, last i heard.
for those reasons i doubt that it can attain sufficient liquidity to displace monero as the dominant provider of dark liquidity.



If the anon fad is over, then hype will have less impact on price.  Technical merit and community effort will play a larger role in determining the outcome.  Lows are always the best time to invest.  If the froth is gone, volatility declines and appreciation is more reliable.  The end of the bubble is always good for the high-quality enterprises.  Their fly-by-night competition is weeded out by the depressive lows.  Fewer fools throwing money around means less malinvestment.  I.e. investment goes to the most fit.  Because monero is the most fit, monero will benefit.

Let us recap the situation and the contenders:

ANC - Zerocoin has serious UX problems due to high computational complexity and data-intensive operation.  Also, it is moon math, and only time and extensive review within the cryptographic community will lend confidence.  A promising crypto in the zygote stage.
DRK - Snake oil, plus instamine, plus ponzi, large entrepreneurial community, late-term fetal development stage.
XMR - High-quality well-tested crypto, large development and entrepreneurial community, mid-term fetal development stage.

Nothing else has enough promise*liquidity to be a contender.  Of the three, XMR and ANC are respectable.  XMR is substantially ahead of ANC in terms of technical development, mind-share and liquidity.  DRK is substantially ahead of XMR in those terms, but it is technically unfit for most legitimate purposes.

Unfortunately I can't elaborate more on aminorex' opinions. Maybe some other member could do that.

Privacy matters, use Monero - A true untraceable cryptocurrency
Why Monero matters? http://weuse.cash/2016/03/05/bitcoiners-hedge-your-position/
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1555932475
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1555932475

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1555932475
Reply with quote  #2

1555932475
Report to moderator
1555932475
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1555932475

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1555932475
Reply with quote  #2

1555932475
Report to moderator
1555932475
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1555932475

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1555932475
Reply with quote  #2

1555932475
Report to moderator
bitcoinrocks
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000


View Profile
October 27, 2014, 06:00:31 PM
 #16282

Great analysis there.

Why is the XMR emission curve so much steeper than with other PoW coins?  Is there a benefit to flattening out sooner?
bitcoinrocks
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000


View Profile
October 27, 2014, 06:05:51 PM
 #16283

fungibility is also a serious issue.

Why is that?


If you live in a corrupt state where the state is confiscating without serious reasoning maybe the citizens should get the possibility for something which is not that easy to link or to confiscate.

Doesn't that mean XMR is under much more regulatory danger than BTC?
RentaMouse
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 252
Merit: 250


View Profile
October 27, 2014, 06:25:11 PM
 #16284

If I recall correctly, Aminorex originally gave a very similar assessment of the "anonymous/private" coin competition 2-3 months ago, and in that time nothing has changed.The Bitcoin based alternatives are struggling to come up with a solution they can announce to great fanfare because they know if its not at least as good as Monero/Cryptonote based coins then they will shoot themselves in the foot. Unfortunately whilst this is a major public relations bonus for XMR we still can't maximise that benefit because the technology isnt ready.

Anyone who has invested in Monero at this stage should have been well aware that its still a "beta" technology - one of the seemingly few honest dev teams that admits the pros and cons whilst not giving in to the pressure to hype up the price in the short term with marketing stunts. Hopefully that will reflect well on XMR in the long term.

Pool admin @ http://cryptonotepool.org.uk/ - for miners who value reliability (and like orange)!
Currently donating all of our 1% pool fee to the dev fund - mine at CryptonotepoolUK and support XMR at no extra cost!
RentaMouse
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 252
Merit: 250


View Profile
October 27, 2014, 06:27:57 PM
 #16285

Great analysis there.

Why is the XMR emission curve so much steeper than with other PoW coins?  Is there a benefit to flattening out sooner?

Bit of a sore point that one, the emission curve is something we got stuck with from the original incarnation of Bitmonero, which had an autocratic solo dev who knew best.... It was then forked by the current team and so you can tell what the people preferred, but the emission curve stayed.

Pool admin @ http://cryptonotepool.org.uk/ - for miners who value reliability (and like orange)!
Currently donating all of our 1% pool fee to the dev fund - mine at CryptonotepoolUK and support XMR at no extra cost!
bitcoinrocks
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000


View Profile
October 27, 2014, 06:34:09 PM
 #16286

Why is the XMR emission curve so much steeper than with other PoW coins?  Is there a benefit to flattening out sooner?

Bit of a sore point that one, the emission curve is something we got stuck with from the original incarnation of Bitmonero, which had an autocratic solo dev who knew best.... It was then forked by the current team and so you can tell what the people preferred, but the emission curve stayed.

Really nice to have that info, thank you.  How big of a problem does this pose to an investor?
Patel
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1296
Merit: 1003



View Profile WWW
October 27, 2014, 06:39:00 PM
 #16287

Why is the XMR emission curve so much steeper than with other PoW coins?  Is there a benefit to flattening out sooner?

Bit of a sore point that one, the emission curve is something we got stuck with from the original incarnation of Bitmonero, which had an autocratic solo dev who knew best.... It was then forked by the current team and so you can tell what the people preferred, but the emission curve stayed.

Really nice to have that info, thank you.  How big of a problem does this pose to an investor?

Pretty significant to be honest. Monero will have 18.4 million total/max coins. 14.72 million (80%) will be mined in the first 4 years. Currently, we're at 4.2 million in circulation.

The first 4 years, has heavy inflation. This gives investors an incentive to buy in at the end of that timeframe. And 4 years in crypto is a long time, with a significant chance that something better will come into the market.
bitcoinrocks
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000


View Profile
October 27, 2014, 06:50:33 PM
 #16288

Why is the XMR emission curve so much steeper than with other PoW coins?  Is there a benefit to flattening out sooner?

Bit of a sore point that one, the emission curve is something we got stuck with from the original incarnation of Bitmonero, which had an autocratic solo dev who knew best.... It was then forked by the current team and so you can tell what the people preferred, but the emission curve stayed.

Really nice to have that info, thank you.  How big of a problem does this pose to an investor?

Pretty significant to be honest. Monero will have 18.4 million total/max coins. 14.72 million (80%) will be mined in the first 4 years. Currently, we're at 4.2 million in circulation.

The first 4 years, has heavy inflation. This gives investors an incentive to buy in at the end of that timeframe. And 4 years in crypto is a long time, with a significant chance that something better will come into the market.

I can imagine that XMR must become very popular as an investment or as a store of value (short or long term) in order to counteract that degree of inflation.
Patel
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1296
Merit: 1003



View Profile WWW
October 27, 2014, 06:55:07 PM
 #16289

Why is the XMR emission curve so much steeper than with other PoW coins?  Is there a benefit to flattening out sooner?

Bit of a sore point that one, the emission curve is something we got stuck with from the original incarnation of Bitmonero, which had an autocratic solo dev who knew best.... It was then forked by the current team and so you can tell what the people preferred, but the emission curve stayed.

Really nice to have that info, thank you.  How big of a problem does this pose to an investor?

Pretty significant to be honest. Monero will have 18.4 million total/max coins. 14.72 million (80%) will be mined in the first 4 years. Currently, we're at 4.2 million in circulation.

The first 4 years, has heavy inflation. This gives investors an incentive to buy in at the end of that timeframe. And 4 years in crypto is a long time, with a significant chance that something better will come into the market.

I can imagine that XMR must become very popular as an investment or as a store of value (short or long term) in order to counteract that degree of inflation.

Yeah, if a coin has a emission rate similar to Monero, it needs to make sure the coin have an awesome start and growing demand to counteract the inflation. Because if your lagging behind in demand, then the emission is just going to keep dragging price down. Thus discouraging new entrants.

I'm not an economist, but that's my take on it.
Techone
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 21
Merit: 0


View Profile
October 27, 2014, 07:15:53 PM
 #16290

I hope the price of monero will drop to a rate where mining is not profitable compared to other crypto coins out there.

It serves two purposes:

1. Botnets switch to "yummy-cash-cow-coin" and leave monero alone.
2. "Professional" Miners (mine´n´sell) switch too.

This provides a very good spread of coins, everyone can mine some and let monero develop.

Monero is a new born child, only a few month old, and some people here expect it to have nice look, be famous, to have a high value per coin... are you serious?! Give it some time. Don´t like it? You got two options: Help to improve it or get out asap. Your choice. But please, please: Stop complaining. It feels like ~ 400 pages of complaining 50 pages "BTCx exploit panic" and ~ 400 pages usefull stuff.
bitcoinrocks
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000


View Profile
October 27, 2014, 07:20:30 PM
 #16291

I hope the price of monero will drop to a rate where mining is not profitable compared to other crypto coins out there.

Maybe that's the magic price point.  Any math geniuses in here?
Techone
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 21
Merit: 0


View Profile
October 27, 2014, 07:31:11 PM
 #16292

It´s at 0.0011 for most regions in the US and at 0.0021 in western europe, at least with Nvidia GPUs, CPU and AMD may be a little higher.

I am from Germany, power cost is ~ 0.30 USD (25 euro cents) here, but many companies provide you with free power during the winter if you are willing to take care of the temperature during winter in their warehouses. Keep them above 0°C to avoid burst water pipes.
liteon
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000


I'm a Firestarter!


View Profile WWW
October 27, 2014, 07:56:54 PM
 #16293

It´s at 0.0011 for most regions in the US and at 0.0021 in western europe, at least with Nvidia GPUs, CPU and AMD may be a little higher.

I am from Germany, power cost is ~ 0.30 USD (25 euro cents) here, but many companies provide you with free power during the winter if you are willing to take care of the temperature during winter in their warehouses. Keep them above 0°C to avoid burst water pipes.

So, by your words, we shall all do that?
To avoid loss?

Selling NordVPN account with premium sub - expires 2021! PM me to buy.
silencesilence
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1078
Merit: 1000


View Profile WWW
October 27, 2014, 07:59:10 PM
 #16294

I feel major WAR today.... after Monero Monday Missive!

Network
Hash Rate: 18.49 MH/sec
Block Found: 2 minutes ago
Difficulty: 1162983830
Blockchain Height: 279336
Last Reward: 13.5105 XMR

Monero is alive  Wink

24-hour Volume: 293 BTC / 160686 XMR
Price:0.00195467
https://poloniex.com/exchange/btc_xmr


VOTE for MONERO Please - https://www.cryptsy.com/coinvotes
dEBRUYNE
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1736
Merit: 1099


View Profile
October 27, 2014, 08:04:42 PM
 #16295

I feel major WAR today.... after Monero Monday Missive!

Network
Hash Rate: 18.49 MH/sec
Block Found: 2 minutes ago
Difficulty: 1162983830
Blockchain Height: 279336
Last Reward: 13.5105 XMR

Monero is alive  Wink

24-hour Volume: 293 BTC / 160686 XMR
Price:0.00195467
https://poloniex.com/exchange/btc_xmr


VOTE for MONERO Please - https://www.cryptsy.com/coinvotes

Cryptsy already stated they will add monero soon. We better vote at btc38 (http://www.btc38.com/trade/vote_for_trade_en.html) to target the chinese audience.

Privacy matters, use Monero - A true untraceable cryptocurrency
Why Monero matters? http://weuse.cash/2016/03/05/bitcoiners-hedge-your-position/
RentaMouse
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 252
Merit: 250


View Profile
October 27, 2014, 10:55:32 PM
 #16296

Moneropool.com is down to 30% of net hash currently, which is an improvement but its still not a good distribution for network security.

If anyone can find a way to get those miners to understand that you dont earn any more from a pool which finds a block every 5min compared to every 5hrs they should get a prize. Pool uptime and fees are the critical factor, a pool which averages half a day of downtime per month is like another 1.5% on its fees.

Pool admin @ http://cryptonotepool.org.uk/ - for miners who value reliability (and like orange)!
Currently donating all of our 1% pool fee to the dev fund - mine at CryptonotepoolUK and support XMR at no extra cost!
smooth
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2100
Merit: 1078



View Profile
October 27, 2014, 11:30:37 PM
 #16297

Moneropool.com is down to 30% of net hash currently, which is an improvement but its still not a good distribution for network security.

If anyone can find a way to get those miners to understand that you dont earn any more from a pool which finds a block every 5min compared to every 5hrs they should get a prize. Pool uptime and fees are the critical factor, a pool which averages half a day of downtime per month is like another 1.5% on its fees.

Pool downtime shouldn't be a big factor since you can and should set up backup pools in your miner.

binaryFate
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1372
Merit: 1001


Still wild and free


View Profile
October 28, 2014, 12:17:49 AM
 #16298

I'm so tired...
Guys can you please post that missive so that I can go to bed?...  Cheesy

Monero's privacy and therefore fungibility are MUCH stronger than Bitcoin's. 
This makes Monero a better candidate to deserve the term "digital cash".
RentaMouse
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 252
Merit: 250


View Profile
October 28, 2014, 12:31:48 AM
 #16299

Moneropool.com is down to 30% of net hash currently, which is an improvement but its still not a good distribution for network security.

If anyone can find a way to get those miners to understand that you dont earn any more from a pool which finds a block every 5min compared to every 5hrs they should get a prize. Pool uptime and fees are the critical factor, a pool which averages half a day of downtime per month is like another 1.5% on its fees.

Pool downtime shouldn't be a big factor since you can and should set up backup pools in your miner.



Depends on the miner, although I must admit I havent checked recently, but only Claymore's used to support backup pools

Pool admin @ http://cryptonotepool.org.uk/ - for miners who value reliability (and like orange)!
Currently donating all of our 1% pool fee to the dev fund - mine at CryptonotepoolUK and support XMR at no extra cost!
smooth
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2100
Merit: 1078



View Profile
October 28, 2014, 12:36:49 AM
 #16300

Depends on the miner, although I must admit I havent checked recently, but only Claymore's used to support backup pools

I'm pretty sure yvg's miner does too.

That's pretty terrible though. Who wants to be paid to add to wolf's and/or tsiv?




Pages: « 1 ... 765 766 767 768 769 770 771 772 773 774 775 776 777 778 779 780 781 782 783 784 785 786 787 788 789 790 791 792 793 794 795 796 797 798 799 800 801 802 803 804 805 806 807 808 809 810 811 812 813 814 [815] 816 817 818 819 820 821 822 823 824 825 826 827 828 829 830 831 832 833 834 835 836 837 838 839 840 841 842 843 844 845 846 847 848 849 850 851 852 853 854 855 856 857 858 859 860 861 862 863 864 865 ... 2035 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!