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Author Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency  (Read 4554632 times)
burnbabyburn71
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October 25, 2014, 07:57:04 PM
 #16121

is there someone who can mining monero any profit at these prices

I was already it profitable to buy than to mining

My the electricity is expensive on the number of coins that I get for 1 month

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I officially stopped mining  Angry
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Botnet operators don't need to pay for electricity

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October 25, 2014, 08:03:02 PM
 #16122

Botnet operators don't need to pay for electricity

could you explain a little more?!
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October 25, 2014, 08:04:52 PM
 #16123

When I first got involved in crypto there were 69 currencies listed on coinmarketcap with a total market cap of $ 13,890,378,655  https://web.archive.org/web/20140104141936/http://coinmarketcap.com/

Is it rational to expect the moon though, when only one out of 69 currencies, and now only one out of >545 currencies and a few assets has actually delivered?

He's saying that he got involved at the top of the market and Bitcoin certainly hasn't "delivered" what he is looking for which is high and increasing prices. So that would be 0/69 at this point.

Get involved at the top of any market and things will look bleak later from that perspective. Quite understandable.


I may have gotten in at the top of the market but I never put anything into it.  I got extremely lucky with some of the coins I mined early.  Most notably Darkcoin and then Bitmonero.  So even in a shrinking market I have done extremely well.  

My point in posting those figures for the growth in currencies while the market cap shrunk was to show the amount of money that has left crypto even though there was an explosion of altcoins offering everything anyone could ever want.  It had nothing to do with my expectations because I didn't have any.
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October 25, 2014, 08:06:10 PM
 #16124

Botnet operators don't need to pay for electricity

could you explain a little more?!

A large portion of the Monero global hash rate is made up of botnets. A botnet is "a network of private computers infected with malicious software and controlled as a group without the owners' knowledge,". In this case the botnet operators are using the computers to mine Monero, since Monero is quite profitable to mine with CPUs (and generally botnets give a lot of CPU power without the host noticing). Obviously the botnet operators don't need to pay for the electricity, so they will be making a profit no matter what.

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October 25, 2014, 08:08:54 PM
 #16125

Botnet operators don't need to pay for electricity

could you explain a little more?!

A large portion of the Monero global hash rate is made up of botnets. A botnet is "a network of private computers infected with malicious software and controlled as a group without the owners' knowledge,". In this case the botnet operators are using the computers to mine Monero, since Monero is quite profitable to mine with CPUs. Obviously the botnet operators don't need to pay for the electricity, so they will be making a profit no matter what.

this is terrible, by this logic, they can bring the price down to 1 Satoshi


is there a way for developers to prevent this - Botnets
sandor111
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October 25, 2014, 08:11:13 PM
 #16126

Botnet operators don't need to pay for electricity

could you explain a little more?!

A large portion of the Monero global hash rate is made up of botnets. A botnet is "a network of private computers infected with malicious software and controlled as a group without the owners' knowledge,". In this case the botnet operators are using the computers to mine Monero, since Monero is quite profitable to mine with CPUs. Obviously the botnet operators don't need to pay for the electricity, so they will be making a profit no matter what.

this is terrible, by this logic, they can bring the price down to 1 Satoshi


is there a way for developers to prevent this - Botnets

They can't do anything.

burnbabyburn71
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October 25, 2014, 08:15:28 PM
 #16127

Botnet operators don't need to pay for electricity

could you explain a little more?!

A large portion of the Monero global hash rate is made up of botnets. A botnet is "a network of private computers infected with malicious software and controlled as a group without the owners' knowledge,". In this case the botnet operators are using the computers to mine Monero, since Monero is quite profitable to mine with CPUs. Obviously the botnet operators don't need to pay for the electricity, so they will be making a profit no matter what.

this is terrible, by this logic, they can bring the price down to 1 Satoshi


is there a way for developers to prevent this - Botnets
Not really, it doesn't effect the amount of Monero being mined per day. I suppose most of the botnet operators would sell their Monero as soon as they receive it though, which could cause problems. Really it shouldn't be a problem if there are enough people buying. However due to the very high emission rate (the amount of coins mined per day set by the network), there selling pressure is starting to out weight the buying pressure causing the price to decrease a bit.

and no, there isn't any way for the devs to stop botnets. However they can reduce the emission rate, which would decrease sell pressure causing a more stable and higher price.

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October 25, 2014, 08:17:10 PM
 #16128

Botnet operators don't need to pay for electricity

could you explain a little more?!

A large portion of the Monero global hash rate is made up of botnets. A botnet is "a network of private computers infected with malicious software and controlled as a group without the owners' knowledge,". In this case the botnet operators are using the computers to mine Monero, since Monero is quite profitable to mine with CPUs. Obviously the botnet operators don't need to pay for the electricity, so they will be making a profit no matter what.

this is terrible, by this logic, they can bring the price down to 1 Satoshi


is there a way for developers to prevent this - Botnets
Not really, it doesn't effect the amount of Monero being mined per day. I suppose most of the botnet operators would sell their Monero as soon as they receive it though, which could cause problems. Really it shouldn't be a problem if their are enough people buying. However due to the very high emission rate (the amount of coins mined per day set by the network), there selling pressure is starting to out weight the buying pressure causing the price to decrease a bit.

why do you think botnet owners would sell immediatly?
i think the opposit is true: a normal miner has to cover costs: he has to sell. a botnet owner get them nearly for free (just a little risk and maybe some cost to buy the botnet in the first lace)

transfer 3 onemorebtc.k1024.de 1
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October 25, 2014, 08:19:48 PM
 #16129

Warning, only fun follows.

Forget about the Earth's Moon, we are talking about Pluto!

The New Horizons spacecraft will be at it's closest on July 14, 2015.  It went into it's last hibernation on Aug. 29th and will wake up on Dec 9. 

Now look at the charts.  Monero was at a high on Aug 29th and it's been downhill from there.  Coincidence?, I think not.  Therefore we can expect an upswing to start on Dec. 9th.  There will be a record high on July 14, 2015 but I'm unsure what it will be.  Happy Bastille Day!

LOL Cheesy

Imagine if something like that happens within three days of the 9th!

is there a way for developers to prevent this - Botnets
They can't do anything.

Some people feel that they can, for example people on the Bytecoin thread people have said, and the darknote developers themselves have made the point that the fast emission style creates a situation where botnets are mostly subverted.

Your personal opinion on that, is up to you though.

My personal feeling is that I would rather buy a coin at a higher price from a botnet, than ever buy it at a lower price from the developers and extremely early adopters from having to burden them with distributing the coin cheaply, because I feel that it yields a better distribution method.

Just a personal taste issue I guess, I don't have the capacity to understand why I feel that way. Possibly because they don't either, or at least haven't come here to debate the issue.

And it's only at the end of fall, that we discover it was naught but the wind that knew when one particular leaf was to fall from one particular tree, only to land in one distinct spot .. to be left for an eternity, and waste its time in a wait sublime. C0A2A1C4
sandor111
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October 25, 2014, 08:21:41 PM
 #16130

Botnet operators don't need to pay for electricity

could you explain a little more?!

A large portion of the Monero global hash rate is made up of botnets. A botnet is "a network of private computers infected with malicious software and controlled as a group without the owners' knowledge,". In this case the botnet operators are using the computers to mine Monero, since Monero is quite profitable to mine with CPUs. Obviously the botnet operators don't need to pay for the electricity, so they will be making a profit no matter what.

this is terrible, by this logic, they can bring the price down to 1 Satoshi


is there a way for developers to prevent this - Botnets
Not really, it doesn't effect the amount of Monero being mined per day. I suppose most of the botnet operators would sell their Monero as soon as they receive it though, which could cause problems. Really it shouldn't be a problem if their are enough people buying. However due to the very high emission rate (the amount of coins mined per day set by the network), there selling pressure is starting to out weight the buying pressure causing the price to decrease a bit.

why do you think botnet owners would sell immediatly?
i think the opposit is true: a normal miner has to cover costs: he has to sell. a botnet owner get them nearly for free (just a little risk and maybe some cost to buy the botnet in the first lace)

Lately the XMR price seems to be in decline anyway, so they sell what they can. Botnet owners still need to maintain their network, which takes time and effort.

onemorebtc
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October 25, 2014, 08:24:27 PM
 #16131

Lately the XMR price seems to be in decline anyway, so they sell what they can. Botnet owners still need to maintain their network, which takes time and effort.

miners must maintain their network too and they have additional electricity costs to pay.

would be interesting to see a botnet owner speak up what he pays effective per xmr Wink

but anyhow: i dont think botnets are bad... people need to learn to secure their computers. and people tend to learn better the hard way

transfer 3 onemorebtc.k1024.de 1
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October 25, 2014, 08:24:34 PM
 #16132


Lately the XMR price seems to be in decline anyway, so they sell what they can. Botnet owners still need to maintain their network, which takes time and effort.

and what they do on the issue / large manufacturers of antivirus software /

is there a way largest manufacturers of anti-virus software to work with Monero developers to prevent this Botnet


This for me is a big hole in each operating system - Linux, Apple, Windows and ...
they must have a mechanism to automatically prevent Botnet,
otherwise they are Botnet
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October 25, 2014, 08:41:50 PM
 #16133

this is terrible, by this logic, they can bring the price down to 1 Satoshi
Not really, it doesn't effect the amount of Monero being mined per day.

Exactly right

Quote
Quote
I suppose most of the botnet operators would sell their Monero as soon as they receive it though, which could cause problems. Really it shouldn't be a problem if their are enough people buying. However due to the very high emission rate (the amount of coins mined per day set by the network), there selling pressure is starting to out weight the buying pressure causing the price to decrease a bit.
why do you think botnet owners would sell immediatly?
i think the opposit is true: a normal miner has to cover costs: he has to sell. a botnet owner get them nearly for free (just a little risk and maybe some cost to buy the botnet in the first lace)

It is interesting that you have people saying botnets are more likely to sell right away and people saying that botnets are less likely to sell right away for the exact same reason.

In reality I don't think anyone has a clue when any particular botnet operator will sell, and I very much doubt they all do the exact same thing. I also don't think anyone really has a clue how much of the mining is done by botnets. Anyone can mine and it is impossible to know who is mining or why. That is by design in a decentralized network. If we tried to pick and choose who can or should mine that would be contrary to the entire premise.
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October 25, 2014, 08:44:54 PM
 #16134

is there a way largest manufacturers of anti-virus software to work with Monero developers to prevent this Botnet

They can detect miners but that can actually be a negative because it causes legitimate users to have their miners get flagged by AV too, which scares them off and disscourages them from mining.

Quote
This for me is a big hole in each operating system - Linux, Apple, Windows and ...
they must have a mechanism to automatically prevent Botnet,
otherwise they are Botnet

I would guess that 99% of botnet computers are Windows, although some have been found on devices such as routers, printers, etc. Those are often even less secure that Windows.

If the world hasn't figured out how to prevent botnets by now, the Monero developers aren't going to be the ones who solve this problem either. We're pretty busy working on the coin itself, you know.

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October 25, 2014, 08:47:42 PM
 #16135

in that case Monero should be done CPU- NOT friendly coin
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October 25, 2014, 08:49:29 PM
 #16136

in that case Monero should be done CPU- NOT friendly coin

So your belief is that mining should be inaccessible to regular people who have computers but don't have specialized GPU mining rigs or ASICs?

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October 25, 2014, 08:54:15 PM
 #16137

in that case Monero should be done CPU- NOT friendly coin
So your belief is that mining should be inaccessible to regular people who have computers but don't have specialized GPU mining rigs or ASICs?

rather, as much as possible people to be able to to mining with their computers, but bot net raises the difficulty and all ordinary miners quit anyway
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October 25, 2014, 08:56:26 PM
 #16138

in that case Monero should be done CPU- NOT friendly coin
So your belief is that mining should be inaccessible to regular people who have computers but don't have specialized GPU mining rigs or ASICs?

rather, as much as possible people to be able to to mining with their computers, but bot net raises the difficulty and all ordinary miners quit anyway

I haven't quit.

Professional miners may well quit. I won't miss them.
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October 25, 2014, 08:57:35 PM
 #16139

before 2 and a half years - Bitcoin Botnet

http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/03/p2p-botnets-the-bigger-they-come-the-faster-they-fall/
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October 25, 2014, 09:00:18 PM
 #16140


Every single major coin has been mined by botnets. Even at times ones that are pretty CPU-unfriendly. Recently a botnet was discovered mining DOGE.
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