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Author Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency  (Read 4554152 times)
bitcoinrocks
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October 27, 2014, 02:36:57 PM
 #16261

If I may play devil's advocate for a moment....

Why should anyone besides criminals care about a non-transparent blockchain?  I can imagine that a big holder wouldn't want their big holdings potentially traced back to them whenever they send coins.  Any other (practical, non-philosophical) reason?


Still think the coin emission is going to hurt more than most people think - but while it's low it's possible to accumulate.  IF this turns out to be a legitimate altcoin with litecoin market cap then you're looking at $20 per coin.  I don't think it's going to happen overnight but I give it a 1 in 3 chance of happening eventually if someone else doesn't blow the anon PoW market away with a completely new coin.

What coin emission issue is this?
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superresistant
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October 27, 2014, 02:38:44 PM
 #16262

If I may play devil's advocate for a moment....
Why should anyone besides criminals care about a non-transparent blockchain?  I can imagine that a big holder wouldn't want their big holdings potentially traced back to them whenever they send coins.  Any other (practical, non-philosophical) reason?

It's been debated a lot already.
Without privacy there is no democracy nor freedom. Simple as that.

All the people claiming that they have nothing to hide are ALL LYING.
Hundred of experiments have proven that people behave submissively and are much more easy to control when feeling being watched.

Start with this :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four
nakaone
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October 27, 2014, 02:52:51 PM
 #16263

fungibility is also a serious issue.
besides that:

I live in the western world in one of the most sophisticated democracies with very high standards regarding rule of law etc. - we probably never need btc or xmr.

BUT

If you live in a corrupt state where the state is confiscating without serious reasoning maybe the citizens should get the possibility for something which is not that easy to link or to confiscate.

With the recent development of bitcoin I think it will not be bitcoin which solves this niche, it will get regulated, controlled and transparent - that is all fine for me but it is obvious that it can be abused by corrupt governments if you do not live in a great country like I do.

I had long discussion with friends about the privacy issue regarding moral doubts:

I came to the following conclusion: if an individual does something bad he will get his punishment by the constitutional state - but who punishes a (constitutional) state which behaves badly? Despotism can only be fought by peoples who have the freedom to choose. 
rdnkjdi
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October 27, 2014, 02:53:24 PM
 #16264

Quote
Without privacy there is no democracy nor freedom. Simple as that.

Democracy & freedom are actually at odds with each other on a certain level.  I *think* transparency lends itself to democracy more than freedom in allowing the masses to take away the rights of the individual.
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October 27, 2014, 02:58:02 PM
 #16265

If I may play devil's advocate for a moment....
Why should anyone besides criminals care about a non-transparent blockchain?  I can imagine that a big holder wouldn't want their big holdings potentially traced back to them whenever they send coins.  Any other (practical, non-philosophical) reason?

It's been debated a lot already.
Without privacy there is no democracy nor freedom. Simple as that.

All the people claiming that they have nothing to hide are ALL LYING.
Hundred of experiments have proven that people behave submissively and are much more easy to control when feeling being watched.

Start with this :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four



people who think that privacy doesn't matter are misinformed/ignorant and don't fully understand the whole spectrum of the issue.
"I've got nothing to hide" is a dangerous mantra that contradicts itself as people who use it are still walking with their clothes on and use doors in their house, keys etc.. Privacy is the very essence of capitalism!

"and i base my assumptions on absolutely nothing"
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October 27, 2014, 02:59:28 PM
 #16266

If I may play devil's advocate for a moment....

Why should anyone besides criminals care about a non-transparent blockchain?  I can imagine that a big holder wouldn't want their big holdings potentially traced back to them whenever they send coins.  Any other (practical, non-philosophical) reason?


Still think the coin emission is going to hurt more than most people think - but while it's low it's possible to accumulate.  IF this turns out to be a legitimate altcoin with litecoin market cap then you're looking at $20 per coin.  I don't think it's going to happen overnight but I give it a 1 in 3 chance of happening eventually if someone else doesn't blow the anon PoW market away with a completely new coin.

What coin emission issue is this?

There was a great post about it on reddit, but I can't find it anymore. A few things that I can remember are:

-Suppose you get a pay raise, every other employee of the company could see this with a transparant chain. On top of that, most people are not comfortable with revealing there salary. With a transparant chain this would be easy to look up.
-Everyone gets to see where (if your adress is known) how much you spend on which things.

There were some other things there, but can't exactly remember it. Maybe some people could extend this topic a bit more.

A transparant chain would be good for monitoring government expenditures, but for normal people a non-transparant chain would be much better. It is basicly like cash. Y

A bit relevant as well: http://www.ted.com/talks/glenn_greenwald_why_privacy_matters

Privacy matters, use Monero - A true untraceable cryptocurrency
Why Monero matters? http://weuse.cash/2016/03/05/bitcoiners-hedge-your-position/
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October 27, 2014, 03:08:05 PM
 #16267

If I may play devil's advocate for a moment....

Why should anyone besides criminals care about a non-transparent blockchain?  I can imagine that a big holder wouldn't want their big holdings potentially traced back to them whenever they send coins.  Any other (practical, non-philosophical) reason?

Please post your bank and credit card statements.

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October 27, 2014, 03:12:01 PM
 #16268

it's worth taking into account that all of the alts that are privacy centered have taken a massive beating lately (dark, bbr, btcd, etc).

(Almost) all the alts that aren't privacy centered have been taking a massive beating lately too, and Bitcoin too.

Crypto bear market.
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October 27, 2014, 03:13:14 PM
Last edit: October 27, 2014, 04:30:14 PM by mmortal03
 #16269

If I may play devil's advocate for a moment....

Why should anyone besides criminals care about a non-transparent blockchain?  I can imagine that a big holder wouldn't want their big holdings potentially traced back to them whenever they send coins.  Any other (practical, non-philosophical) reason?

Please post your bank and credit card statements.



Exactly. Btw, conversations on this topic are great, and need to somehow be more emphasized to the average person, regarding why they might want to use Monero over (or alongside) Bitcoin.
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October 27, 2014, 03:26:10 PM
 #16270

If I may play devil's advocate for a moment....

Why should anyone besides criminals care about a non-transparent blockchain?  I can imagine that a big holder wouldn't want their big holdings potentially traced back to them whenever they send coins.  Any other (practical, non-philosophical) reason?

Please post your bank and credit card statements.


I was going to say that my life is none of your business. But this drives the point home even better. Touché!

|| Monero Blocks - The Monero Block Explorerdonate.moneroblocks.info ||
shojayxt
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October 27, 2014, 03:31:11 PM
 #16271

it's worth taking into account that all of the alts that are privacy centered have taken a massive beating lately (dark, bbr, btcd, etc).

(Almost) all the alts that aren't privacy centered have been taking a massive beating lately too, and Bitcoin too.

Crypto bear market.


That pretty much sums it up.  If you look at other coin threads you'll see the same talk about price.  However, this latest decline in XMR price has been pretty substantial compared to other coins.  There is a significant amount of buy support, 364 btc on Poloniex but XMR will need to go down further to reach it.  

If you look at most coins none of them are anywhere near their all time highs.  Monero's chart is similar to other coins that steadily declined from their peak.  There was too much hype surrounding Monero and cryptonote coins in general.  The price was artificially inflated and driven up by many not wanting to miss out.  


 
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October 27, 2014, 03:36:27 PM
 #16272

I feel major WAR today.... after Monero Monday Missive!
smooth
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October 27, 2014, 03:44:22 PM
 #16273

it's worth taking into account that all of the alts that are privacy centered have taken a massive beating lately (dark, bbr, btcd, etc).

(Almost) all the alts that aren't privacy centered have been taking a massive beating lately too, and Bitcoin too.

Crypto bear market.


That pretty much sums it up.  If you look at other coin threads you'll see the same talk about price.  However, this latest decline in XMR price has been pretty substantial compared to other coins.

Compared to some yes. But over the past 30 days BTCD is down more, DRK is down less, so I don't think you can really attribute it to privacy-centered vs. others. Our ranking on coinmarket cap has slipped a bit (down to #14 now) but 11-20 are all pretty close in value, and the entire group has dropped about as much as we have (though the composition of the group has changed a little).

Nothing remarkable about the XMR price drop really, given the rest of the market. That's not to say I'm happy about it, but being realistic.

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October 27, 2014, 04:03:31 PM
 #16274

It's just price discovery. Earn your place in the crypto world with hard results and price will eventually rebound.

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DeepOnion
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October 27, 2014, 04:10:11 PM
 #16275

It's just price discovery. Earn your place in the crypto world with hard results and price will eventually rebound.

Never got so many totally cheap Monero coins in my life! My thanks go to Mr. Burns dumping all his coins because he's too old to understand Cheesy


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October 27, 2014, 04:15:21 PM
 #16276

If I may play devil's advocate for a moment....
Why should anyone besides criminals care about a non-transparent blockchain?  I can imagine that a big holder wouldn't want their big holdings potentially traced back to them whenever they send coins.  Any other (practical, non-philosophical) reason?

It's been debated a lot already.
Without privacy there is no democracy nor freedom. Simple as that.

All the people claiming that they have nothing to hide are ALL LYING.
Hundred of experiments have proven that people behave submissively and are much more easy to control when feeling being watched.

Start with this :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four



people who think that privacy doesn't matter are misinformed/ignorant and don't fully understand the whole spectrum of the issue.
"I've got nothing to hide" is a dangerous mantra that contradicts itself as people who use it are still walking with their clothes on and use doors in their house, keys etc.. Privacy is the very essence of capitalism!


Privacy is the very essence of individualism.

On a side note, XMR has a great community, keep faith in this coin and in the devs' awsome work.
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October 27, 2014, 04:31:44 PM
 #16277

I live in the western world in one of the most sophisticated democracies with very high standards regarding rule of law etc. - we probably never need btc or xmr.

Law Lets I.R.S. Seize Accounts on Suspicion, No Crime Required
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/26/us/law-lets-irs-seize-accounts-on-suspicion-no-crime-required.html
Quicken
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October 27, 2014, 04:40:10 PM
 #16278

I live in the western world in one of the most sophisticated democracies with very high standards regarding rule of law etc. - we probably never need btc or xmr.

Law Lets I.R.S. Seize Accounts on Suspicion, No Crime Required
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/26/us/law-lets-irs-seize-accounts-on-suspicion-no-crime-required.html

Yes, and never forget Executive Order 6102. ;-)
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October 27, 2014, 05:36:50 PM
 #16279

Price: 0.0017
Never forget  Tongue

Selling NordVPN account with premium sub - expires 2021! PM me to buy.
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October 27, 2014, 05:37:56 PM
 #16280

EXCELLENT points guys!  My faith in the concept of a non-transparent blockchain is restored.  But will Monero be the One?  It sounds like ZeroCash has a lot of people very interested but it hasn't been released yet.  Is Boolberry the next best thing in CryptoNote?  What does BBR have going for it that XMR doesn't?
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