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Author Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency  (Read 4554485 times)
lebing
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October 23, 2014, 05:39:44 AM
 #15921

In the wake of http://www.blockstream.com/ essentially making sidechains an inevitability - what is the point of holding XMR now? Wont all of the privacy Monero offers be available within the bitcoin blockchain?

I think the answer is no. First of all it is questionable whether you would really want to hold wealth long term on a sidechain. The security assumptions (even when it comes to things like network hash rate, but in other more fundamental respects as well) are questionable. It is more plausible you might want to use services or features on a side chain by moving your bitcoins there and then, relatively quickly, moving them back to the more secure main chain. For example, this might be be used for mixing, by moving your coins to a sidechain with ring signatures, transacting and then moving them back.

But this ends up being a lot like using a Bitcoin mixer, with many of the same issues such as simultaneity. For example, imagine you are making a donation to some controversial organization and you want to delink the bitcoins you are donating.

So you go ahead and move your coins to a ring-sig sidechain, move them around a few times, and then move them back. Unless other people are doing this at the same time, when you move your coins back to the main chain, you will get the same coins back that you started with.

Alternately, perhaps the organization wants to be all anonymous and stuff, so it publishes an address on the sidechain, and you donate to them there. They then withdraw the coins back to the main chain, and they get the exact Bitcoins you sent to the side chain.

Obviously if there are a few other people doing the transfers at the same time, there is a degree of mixing, but it is fairly limited.

I don't think a side chain with a specialized purpose can achieve the same degree of anonymity as a coin designed for that purpose, where the entire chain is being mixed and remixed continually. That is an emperical question though. It is possible that a Bitcoin side chain could get more usage and greater trust of its security for long term holdings than Monero will have. More usage would address the mixing issue to a some extent and trust in the security would address the need to constantly move coins back and forth (though there still may be a loss of network effect here). None of this is clear at all.

I also think it is possible the market may simply reject the notion of adopting the Bitcoin currency for everything. It will be an interesting experiment to decouple new features from using a different currency. We may well find that the reason for altcoins is not the features!

Thanks Smooth for a proper answer. I have to say though that there are a lot of assumptions and far too many maybes in there for me. Best of luck to you, Risto and the rest of the team.

Bro, do you even blockchain?
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October 23, 2014, 06:01:08 AM
 #15922

Could somebody please help me to resolve this issue ?
I was out of town & away from my home PC so I didn't updated my blockchain for almost 3 months,
Last week when I came back I downloaded the latest wallet from the OP & also the blockchain (2.3 GB .bin file) from the link provided in the OP.

After that when I ran bitmonerod.exe my blockchain was still  about 40-45 days behind so, left it overnight running & in the morning it was done with synchronization.
But then when I run simplewallet.exe, it gives me a weird message,

Quote
2014-Oct-23 11:04:45.414355 bitmonero wallet v0.8.8.4-771b531
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.208800 Loaded wallet keys file, with public address: -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.208800 file not found: xmr, starting with empty blockchain
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.208800 Opened wallet: -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.599823 Starting refresh...
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.681828 Failed to invoke http request to  http://localhost:18081/getblocks.bin, wrong response code: 500
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.681828 ERROR ..\..\src\wallet\wallet2.cpp:282 !r. THROW EXCEPTION: error::no_connection_to_daemon
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.703829 ..\..\src\wallet\wallet2.cpp:282:struct tools::error::no_connection_to_daemon: no connection to daemon, request = getblocks.bin
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.709829 Another try pull_blocks (try_count=0)...
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.749831 Failed to invoke http request to  http://localhost:18081/getblocks.bin, wrong response code: 500
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.750831 ERROR ..\..\src\wallet\wallet2.cpp:282 !r. THROW EXCEPTION: error::no_connection_to_daemon
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.750831 ..\..\src\wallet\wallet2.cpp:282:struct tools::error::no_connection_to_daemon: no connection to daemon, request = getblocks.bin
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.750831 Another try pull_blocks (try_count=1)...
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.771833 Failed to invoke http request to  http://localhost:18081/getblocks.bin, wrong response code: 500
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.771833 ERROR ..\..\src\wallet\wallet2.cpp:282 !r. THROW EXCEPTION: error::no_connection_to_daemon
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.772833 ..\..\src\wallet\wallet2.cpp:282:struct tools::error::no_connection_to_daemon: no connection to daemon, request = getblocks.bin
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.772833 Another try pull_blocks (try_count=2)...
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.794834 Failed to invoke http request to  http://localhost:18081/getblocks.bin, wrong response code: 500
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.794834 ERROR ..\..\src\wallet\wallet2.cpp:282 !r. THROW EXCEPTION: error::no_connection_to_daemon
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.794834 ..\..\src\wallet\wallet2.cpp:282:struct tools::error::no_connection_to_daemon: no connection to daemon, request = getblocks.bin
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.794834 ERROR ..\..\src\wallet\wallet2.cpp:358 pull_blocks failed, try_count=3
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.803834 Error: refresh failed: no connection to daemon. Please, make sure daemon is running. Blocks received: 0

At the same time bitmonerod.log reads the following,

Quote
2014-Oct-23 11:02:31.377688 [P2P1][188.2.54.196:18080 OUT]Sync data returned unknown top block: 272598 -> 272778 [180 blocks (0 days) behind]
SYNCHRONIZATION started
2014-Oct-23 11:03:24.909750 [P2P3][85.69.78.14:18080 OUT] SYNCHRONIZED OK
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.646826 [RPC0]ERROR c:\users\ric_000\desktop\bitmonero\src\rpc\core_rpc_server.h:68 Failed to on_get_blocks()
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.710829 [RPC0]ERROR c:\users\ric_000\desktop\bitmonero\src\rpc\core_rpc_server.h:68 Failed to on_get_blocks()
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.750831 [RPC1]ERROR c:\users\ric_000\desktop\bitmonero\src\rpc\core_rpc_server.h:68 Failed to on_get_blocks()
2014-Oct-23 11:04:53.772833 [RPC0]ERROR c:\users\ric_000\desktop\bitmonero\src\rpc\core_rpc_server.h:68 Failed to on_get_blocks()
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October 23, 2014, 06:04:52 AM
 #15923

I have to say though that there are a lot of assumptions and far too many maybes in there for me. Best of luck to you, Risto and the rest of the team.

On which side of the argument? I would say both.

The experiment continues.
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October 23, 2014, 06:06:46 AM
 #15924

you know monero is undervalued if



lol. What happened to CannabisCoin since last week? I no longer see it on the list.

Take a look down at #33.

It is fascinating to me how many flash-in-the-pan coins that were at one time right around our market cap or a bit higher have come and gone since the start of this project.

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October 23, 2014, 07:02:14 AM
 #15925

Is the viewkey currently stored in the wallet.bin file, or is it only generated from the private key on the fly? The reason I ask is, if it is the former, then I assume that simplewallet could easily be programmed to run in watch-only (view-only) mode, operating as such whenever the user tries to load their wallet.bin file without their wallet.bin.keys file being present. This could make running an offline wallet configuration VERY easy.  One could simply generate their wallet with simplewallet on an offline machine, then copy over just the wallet.bin file WITHOUT the wallet.bin.keys file to an online machine, and then load that into simplewallet. Would there be any security or privacy concerns to having it operate this way?
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October 23, 2014, 07:38:41 AM
 #15926

Monero may not be a pump and dump coin, but there is certainly a lot of dumping going on, and the price is starting to suffer.

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October 23, 2014, 10:13:54 AM
 #15927

Monero may not be a pump and dump coin, but there is certainly a lot of dumping going on, and the price is starting to suffer.

I am very surprised to see Monero doing so badly, however I see no news until next year that could reverse this trend.

The GUI is planned for 2015 correct? And the database work? Has any progress been made?
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October 23, 2014, 10:14:25 AM
 #15928

Monero may not be a pump and dump coin, but there is certainly a lot of dumping going on, and the price is starting to suffer.

the price is down from BOTs

see very small SELL orders

0.00249122   0.0666   0.00016592
0.00249123   0.0666   0.00016592
0.00249124   0.0666   0.00016592
0.00249125   0.0666   0.00016592
0.00249126   0.0666   0.00016592
0.00249127   0.0666   0.00016592
0.00249128   0.0666   0.00016592
0.00249129   0.0666   0.00016592
0.00249130   0.0666   0.00016592
0.00249131   0.0666   0.00016592
0.00249132   0.0666   0.00016592
0.00249133   0.0666   0.00016592
0.00249134   76.0646   0.18950278
0.00249135   100.0666   0.24930092
0.00249136   20.0666   0.04999312
0.00249137   34.85445   0.08683533
0.00249138   0.0666   0.00016593
0.00249139   0.0666   0.00016593
0.00249140   0.0666   0.00016593
0.00249141   0.0666   0.00016593
0.00249142   0.0666   0.00016593
0.00249143   0.0666   0.00016593
0.00249144   0.0666   0.00016593
0.00249145   0.0666   0.00016593
0.00249146   100.0666   0.24931193
0.00249147   0.0666   0.00016593
0.00249148   0.0666   0.00016593
0.00249149   0.0666   0.00016593
0.00249150   0.0666   0.00016593
0.00249250   0.0666   0.000166
0.00249350   0.0666   0.00016607
0.00249450   0.0666   0.00016613
0.00249550   0.0666   0.0001662
0.00249650   0.0666   0.00016627
0.00249660   0.1   0.00024966
0.00249750   0.0666   0.00016633
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October 23, 2014, 10:17:34 AM
 #15929

Monero may not be a pump and dump coin, but there is certainly a lot of dumping going on, and the price is starting to suffer.

the price is down from BOTs


I'm not sure that explains everything, currently the sell side is 280k monero vs 40k monero on the buy side.

Sad
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October 23, 2014, 10:19:28 AM
 #15930

In the wake of http://www.blockstream.com/ essentially making sidechains an inevitability - what is the point of holding XMR now? Wont all of the privacy Monero offers be available within the bitcoin blockchain?

how?

As I understand sidechains, you can essentially utilize all of the functionality of an alt while remaining on the bitcoin blockchain. This therefore removes the need for any alt, including Monero.

i see. it is done by hand-waving.

it is a familiar technique, which accomplishes much - but it does not accomplish what you suggest.

Expecting a serious response to a serious question, but I get trolled. If you are looking to instill confidence in Monero this is not the way to go about it.

The benefit of Monero is that all the users are apart of the anonymity set, not just the people on the side chain.

For the side chain to work best, many people would have to keep funds in the side chain for a period of time, the shorter, and the worse the overall anonymity of all users will be.
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October 23, 2014, 10:21:15 AM
 #15931

Monero may not be a pump and dump coin, but there is certainly a lot of dumping going on, and the price is starting to suffer.

I am very surprised to see Monero doing so badly, however I see no news until next year that could reverse this trend.

The GUI is planned for 2015 correct? And the database work? Has any progress been made?

I believe that you missed the last missive: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg9271342#msg9271342
They are working on the database. It's indeed slower than my expectations, but hey! they are not many devs, not that well-paid, so I cannot complain.
I really hope that DB will be finished this year.

And about GUI wallet, I think that the currently existing (3rd party) GUI wallets are considered "good enough" for now. I cannot tell, as for me simplewallet is already good enough.

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October 23, 2014, 11:01:13 AM
 #15932

Monero may not be a pump and dump coin, but there is certainly a lot of dumping going on, and the price is starting to suffer.

I am very surprised to see Monero doing so badly, however I see no news until next year that could reverse this trend.

The GUI is planned for 2015 correct? And the database work? Has any progress been made?

I believe that you missed the last missive: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg9271342#msg9271342
They are working on the database. It's indeed slower than my expectations, but hey! they are not many devs, not that well-paid, so I cannot complain.
I really hope that DB will be finished this year.

And about GUI wallet, I think that the currently existing (3rd party) GUI wallets are considered "good enough" for now. I cannot tell, as for me simplewallet is already good enough.

It is my personal opinion that the best thing to do on the GUI front short term if you (not you personally but speaking to everyone) want to make a difference is to contribute to the existing GUIs. That could be as simple as careful testing and giving feedback, writing or editing "how to" guides for new users, building and releasing binaries and installers (it will help if you are a well-trusted), etc. or it could be actual (but in most cases relatively simple) programming to make some minor tweaks and improvements. Obviously everyone has different skills, but any of these skills will help make the GUIs more accessible to more users.

The core team GUI project is ambitious and groundbreaking but it won't be finished very soon. In my view it is more realistic to target that project as (very) improved "version 2" GUI rather than a primary solution when we already have GUIs that (at least mostly) work right now.
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October 23, 2014, 11:36:36 AM
 #15933

Monero may not be a pump and dump coin, but there is certainly a lot of dumping going on, and the price is starting to suffer.

It's going down with bitcoin unfortunately. I think people might be worried about the sidechains as well. Smooth provided a nice statement about that in another topic.

In the wake of http://www.blockstream.com/ essentially making sidechains an inevitability - what is the point of holding XMR now? Wont all of the privacy Monero offers be available within the bitcoin blockchain?

I think the answer is no. First of all it is questionable whether you would really want to hold wealth long term on a sidechain. The security assumptions (even when it comes to things like network hash rate, but in other more fundamental respects as well) are questionable. It is more plausible you might want to use services or features on a side chain by moving your bitcoins there and then, relatively quickly, moving them back to the more secure main chain. For example, this might be be used for mixing, by moving your coins to a sidechain with ring signatures, transacting and then moving them back.

But this ends up being a lot like using a Bitcoin mixer, with many of the same issues such as simultaneity. For example, imagine you are making a donation to some controversial organization and you want to delink the bitcoins you are donating.

So you go ahead and move your coins to a ring-sig sidechain, move them around a few times, and then move them back. Unless other people are doing this at the same time, when you move your coins back to the main chain, you will get the same coins back that you started with.

Alternately, perhaps the organization wants to be all anonymous and stuff, so it publishes an address on the sidechain, and you donate to them there. They then withdraw the coins back to the main chain, and they get the exact Bitcoins you sent to the side chain.

Obviously if there are a few other people doing the transfers at the same time, there is a degree of mixing, but it is fairly limited.

I don't think a side chain with a specialized purpose can achieve the same degree of anonymity as a coin designed for that purpose, where the entire chain is being mixed and remixed continually. That is an emperical question though. It is possible that a Bitcoin side chain could get more usage and greater trust of its security for long term holdings than Monero will have. More usage would address the mixing issue to a some extent and trust in the security would address the need to constantly move coins back and forth (though there still may be a loss of network effect here). None of this is clear at all.

I also think it is possible the market may simply reject the notion of adopting the Bitcoin currency for everything. It will be an interesting experiment to decouple new features from using a different currency. We may well find that the reason for altcoins is not the features!





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October 23, 2014, 11:48:23 AM
 #15934

Monero may not be a pump and dump coin, but there is certainly a lot of dumping going on, and the price is starting to suffer.

It's going down with bitcoin unfortunately. I think people might be worried about the sidechains as well.

Oddly though, a lot of other alts are up.

I think we are seeing a realignment of demand for Monero. Most people who already want it at this point have it, so there is limited new demand to absorb the mined coins, until a new equilibrium is reached at a lower price.

Expanding the economy and brining in new users is what is needed. We now at least have one building and role playing game (Crypto Kingdom) that has gotten off to a great start. We need more of this.





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October 23, 2014, 11:53:54 AM
 #15935

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/cryptocurrency-round-darkcoin-dark-web-cex-accepts-bitcoin-1471295

Like this?

Is there anyway monero can catch up? Is xmr that much better (more anonymous) than drk that dark web services would switch?
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October 23, 2014, 12:08:23 PM
 #15936

It's going down with bitcoin unfortunately. I think people might be worried about the sidechains as well. Smooth provided a nice statement about that in another topic.

"sidechains" still means ASIC based SHA256² mining which is the only reason I ever dabbled with altcoins.
Before they don't change Bitcoin mining back for ordinary people, I'm just out of Bitcoins, period.
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October 23, 2014, 02:09:01 PM
 #15937

This is so Monero buy time these days!! Simply awesome :-)
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October 23, 2014, 03:40:11 PM
Last edit: October 23, 2014, 04:02:28 PM by burnbabyburn71
 #15938

Monero may not be a pump and dump coin, but there is certainly a lot of dumping going on, and the price is starting to suffer.

the price is down from BOTs


I'm not sure that explains everything, currently the sell side is 280k monero vs 40k monero on the buy side.

Sad

Well what's the current incentive to buy Monero right now? Profit? The random huge sell orders make it seem that profit is unlikely which may have contributed to the small about of buy orders. If someone put up some big buy orders to tackle the big sell orders, maybe that would help the situation, but I doubt any one person has enough money to actually have an effect on the market. It would probably work if it was a coordinated effort.

But what I think would really help, is if Monero starts to actually be used for payments. I'm unaware of anything that accepts Monero, that maybe because we need some more marketing. Otherwise there simply aren't enough services that accept XMR. Perhaps services that emphasize anonymity, such as an anonymous VPS service that respects privacy. Maybe this is a bit ambitious but surely they are some other services that would suit XMR well.

Hyping and marketing, getting the general traders aware of what's going on with XMR. Give them a reason to be excited, give them a reason to think that other traders will want to buy into this coin.

Basically:

Problem = not enough people buying Monero causing the price to tank

Solution = get more people to buy Monero

So, I think one way to achieve the solution is to put bounties on specific and decent XMR accepting services. Also maybe bounties for promotions and graphics? I'm not sure, just throwing ideas out there. Its probably not a good idea to just sit a watch the price fall though...

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October 23, 2014, 05:09:19 PM
 #15939

Price is more then funny ... it's sick cheap



 Huh Undecided

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October 23, 2014, 05:26:53 PM
 #15940

Big dump, and then big pump!

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