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Author Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency  (Read 4554742 times)
generalizethis
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November 08, 2014, 01:25:31 PM
 #16701

Total curiosity question, just because i love knowing stuff..

Just transferred 64xmr and i noticed when i did a refresh the first transaction that showed up, before showing all my transfers in the purple text, was 3 transactions received: 1 for .6, 1 for 6, and 1 for 10.. for a total of 16.6xmr received and then all the purple text showing the transfers going out.. my final balance is correct, nothing extra received

see screengrab if necessary:

http://imgur.com/c7P6tmE

so i guess my question is now obvious, why is that? where did that 16.6xmr come from? is it part of my transfer? and why 16.6 when i sent 64?

ok so i guess that's 4 questions

i know i wen't a little overboard with the redacting, but once i started i couldn't stop!

Thanks,


That's your change. In order to send 64, the wallet used one or more outputs adding up to 80.6 (maybe a bit more with fee), of which 64 (60+4) went to the recipient and 16.6 (10+6+0.6) came back to you. Bitcoin works the same way and you can see these change transactions if you look on a chain explorer, but usually wallets don't normally show the low level details the way simplewallet does.





Hate to go full-noob on you, but what function does that serve?

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binaryFate
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November 08, 2014, 01:30:58 PM
 #16702

Total curiosity question, just because i love knowing stuff..

Just transferred 64xmr and i noticed when i did a refresh the first transaction that showed up, before showing all my transfers in the purple text, was 3 transactions received: 1 for .6, 1 for 6, and 1 for 10.. for a total of 16.6xmr received and then all the purple text showing the transfers going out.. my final balance is correct, nothing extra received

see screengrab if necessary:

http://imgur.com/c7P6tmE

so i guess my question is now obvious, why is that? where did that 16.6xmr come from? is it part of my transfer? and why 16.6 when i sent 64?

ok so i guess that's 4 questions

i know i wen't a little overboard with the redacting, but once i started i couldn't stop!

Thanks,


That's your change. In order to send 64, the wallet used one or more outputs adding up to 80.6 (maybe a bit more with fee), of which 64 (60+4) went to the recipient and 16.6 (10+6+0.6) came back to you. Bitcoin works the same way and you can see these change transactions if you look on a chain explorer, but usually wallets don't normally show the low level details the way simplewallet does.





Hate to go full-noob on you, but what function does that serve?

It's more than just a function served, it's the fundamental way how Bitcoin (and Monero, and all other cryptos) are designed. We don't send and receive amounts, but atomic inputs and outputs. Inputs can only be "spent" entirely, so the only way to "spend" a target amount is too spend one or several inputs entirely, and send the change back to yourself.


Monero's privacy and therefore fungibility are MUCH stronger than Bitcoin's. 
This makes Monero a better candidate to deserve the term "digital cash".
generalizethis
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November 08, 2014, 02:34:27 PM
 #16703

Total curiosity question, just because i love knowing stuff..

Just transferred 64xmr and i noticed when i did a refresh the first transaction that showed up, before showing all my transfers in the purple text, was 3 transactions received: 1 for .6, 1 for 6, and 1 for 10.. for a total of 16.6xmr received and then all the purple text showing the transfers going out.. my final balance is correct, nothing extra received

see screengrab if necessary:

http://imgur.com/c7P6tmE

so i guess my question is now obvious, why is that? where did that 16.6xmr come from? is it part of my transfer? and why 16.6 when i sent 64?

ok so i guess that's 4 questions

i know i wen't a little overboard with the redacting, but once i started i couldn't stop!

Thanks,


That's your change. In order to send 64, the wallet used one or more outputs adding up to 80.6 (maybe a bit more with fee), of which 64 (60+4) went to the recipient and 16.6 (10+6+0.6) came back to you. Bitcoin works the same way and you can see these change transactions if you look on a chain explorer, but usually wallets don't normally show the low level details the way simplewallet does.





Hate to go full-noob on you, but what function does that serve?

It's more than just a function served, it's the fundamental way how Bitcoin (and Monero, and all other cryptos) are designed. We don't send and receive amounts, but atomic inputs and outputs. Inputs can only be "spent" entirely, so the only way to "spend" a target amount is too spend one or several inputs entirely, and send the change back to yourself.



So it's a ledger system using an atomic units rather than symbolic ones? Worried about my word choice here   Undecided

generalizethis
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November 08, 2014, 02:35:08 PM
 #16704

Total curiosity question, just because i love knowing stuff..

Just transferred 64xmr and i noticed when i did a refresh the first transaction that showed up, before showing all my transfers in the purple text, was 3 transactions received: 1 for .6, 1 for 6, and 1 for 10.. for a total of 16.6xmr received and then all the purple text showing the transfers going out.. my final balance is correct, nothing extra received

see screengrab if necessary:

http://imgur.com/c7P6tmE

so i guess my question is now obvious, why is that? where did that 16.6xmr come from? is it part of my transfer? and why 16.6 when i sent 64?

ok so i guess that's 4 questions

i know i wen't a little overboard with the redacting, but once i started i couldn't stop!

Thanks,


That's your change. In order to send 64, the wallet used one or more outputs adding up to 80.6 (maybe a bit more with fee), of which 64 (60+4) went to the recipient and 16.6 (10+6+0.6) came back to you. Bitcoin works the same way and you can see these change transactions if you look on a chain explorer, but usually wallets don't normally show the low level details the way simplewallet does.





Hate to go full-noob on you, but what function does that serve?

It's more than just a function served, it's the fundamental way how Bitcoin (and Monero, and all other cryptos) are designed. We don't send and receive amounts, but atomic inputs and outputs. Inputs can only be "spent" entirely, so the only way to "spend" a target amount is too spend one or several inputs entirely, and send the change back to yourself.



So it's a ledger system using an atomic unit rather than a symbolic one? Worried about my word choice here   Undecided

binaryFate
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November 08, 2014, 02:43:27 PM
 #16705


So it's a ledger system using an atomic units rather than symbolic ones? Worried about my word choice here   Undecided

Kind of, but the atomic units are not atomic units of accounts (like satoshis = 0.00000001 BTC), but atomic outputs whose amounts vary.

If you send 1.5 BTC to a given address X, this address will have one "input" of 1.5 BTC that can later be spent. Later, if the owner of address X wants to send 1 BTC to another address Y, he must destroy entirely the 1.5 input, and create two new outputs: 1 BTC to Y, and 0.5 BTC back to himself.

It's similar to cash actually: to pay 4.5$ you either group several coin of different value to reach 4.5, or you pay with 5$ and the merchant give you 0.5$ back. Except with bitcoin (and monero, and all others) it is not coin and notes but outputs between addresses, and the values of them is not always the same as with coins.

Monero's privacy and therefore fungibility are MUCH stronger than Bitcoin's. 
This makes Monero a better candidate to deserve the term "digital cash".
onetwentyfive
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November 08, 2014, 08:23:20 PM
 #16706

Total curiosity question, just because i love knowing stuff..

Just transferred 64xmr and i noticed when i did a refresh the first transaction that showed up, before showing all my transfers in the purple text, was 3 transactions received: 1 for .6, 1 for 6, and 1 for 10.. for a total of 16.6xmr received and then all the purple text showing the transfers going out.. my final balance is correct, nothing extra received

see screengrab if necessary:

http://imgur.com/c7P6tmE

so i guess my question is now obvious, why is that? where did that 16.6xmr come from? is it part of my transfer? and why 16.6 when i sent 64?

ok so i guess that's 4 questions

i know i wen't a little overboard with the redacting, but once i started i couldn't stop!

Thanks,

That's your change. In order to send 64, the wallet used one or more outputs adding up to 80.6 (maybe a bit more with fee), of which 64 (60+4) went to the recipient and 16.6 (10+6+0.6) came back to you. Bitcoin works the same way and you can see these change transactions if you look on a chain explorer, but usually wallets don't normally show the low level details the way simplewallet does.

Makes sense, thanks!

You learn something new every day...
smooth
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November 08, 2014, 08:42:42 PM
 #16707

Total curiosity question, just because i love knowing stuff..

Just transferred 64xmr and i noticed when i did a refresh the first transaction that showed up, before showing all my transfers in the purple text, was 3 transactions received: 1 for .6, 1 for 6, and 1 for 10.. for a total of 16.6xmr received and then all the purple text showing the transfers going out.. my final balance is correct, nothing extra received

see screengrab if necessary:

http://imgur.com/c7P6tmE

so i guess my question is now obvious, why is that? where did that 16.6xmr come from? is it part of my transfer? and why 16.6 when i sent 64?

ok so i guess that's 4 questions

i know i wen't a little overboard with the redacting, but once i started i couldn't stop!

Thanks,


That's your change. In order to send 64, the wallet used one or more outputs adding up to 80.6 (maybe a bit more with fee), of which 64 (60+4) went to the recipient and 16.6 (10+6+0.6) came back to you. Bitcoin works the same way and you can see these change transactions if you look on a chain explorer, but usually wallets don't normally show the low level details the way simplewallet does.





Hate to go full-noob on you, but what function does that serve?

Simple answer is that in the Bitcoin system (from which Monero derives this aspect of its design), an output can only be used once after which it is "spent" and can never be used again. So if you have just an output of 100, and you want to spend 10, you have no choice but to spend the entire 100. To do that, 10 is sent to the intended recipient and 90 goes back to you.

generalizethis
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November 09, 2014, 01:53:03 AM
 #16708


Thanks Smooth and BinaryFate. This is fascinating, but I don't want to hog up the thread with questions. Where would i go to find out more about the way crypto-currency functions at the atomic level? Or at the very least, a thorough explanation of the mining, wallet, and transaction process from A to Z.  


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November 09, 2014, 01:57:46 AM
 #16709


Thanks Smooth and BinaryFate. This is fascinating, but I don't want to hog up the thread with questions. Where would i go to find out more about the way crypto-currency functions at the atomic level? Or at the very least, a thorough explanation of the mining, wallet, and transaction process from A to Z. 



Cryptonote Whitepaper:
https://cryptonote.org/whitepaper.pdf

Review:
http://monero.cc/downloads/whitepaper_review.pdf

(those are linked in the first post)

and of course: bitcoins whitepaper by satoshi: https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

transfer 3 onemorebtc.k1024.de 1
BanditryAndLoot
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November 09, 2014, 01:59:08 AM
 #16710

Is this wat's being talked about with atomic exchanges and cross chain transactions? So rather than communicating through a custom-built exchange API and trading numbers they make up for other numbers they make up, you're always exchanging the real thing for the real thing?

How would that be implemented with this codebase?

And it's only at the end of fall, that we discover it was naught but the wind that knew when one particular leaf was to fall from one particular tree, only to land in one distinct spot .. to be left for an eternity, and waste its time in a wait sublime. C0A2A1C4
akula999
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November 09, 2014, 02:11:25 AM
 #16711

Hey Guys, question. I'm interested in running a monero pool. Ive been playing around with node-cryptonote-pool in ubuntu and I set it up. I'd like to now see if I can get it working in a windows computer. Can the pool run on a Windows 7 Pro pc? (reason I ask is that my windows 7 pc is faster and newer).

Bitcoin: 1FzZehkiwfeeUmfmBrym8VvXX7gUj3miHe
XMR: 4AqrzGPfEKeZrVXyPDNXUrNeKZZGNYiXMDoY49PvdffKNTRg6xp2Qz74SZ72gT5F9HH8Vaic99ndRg6 UBGcVijaNStQjwwf
sammy007
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November 09, 2014, 09:13:16 AM
 #16712

Hey Guys, question. I'm interested in running a monero pool. Ive been playing around with node-cryptonote-pool in ubuntu and I set it up. I'd like to now see if I can get it working in a windows computer. Can the pool run on a Windows 7 Pro pc? (reason I ask is that my windows 7 pc is faster and newer).

Don't think so, this is not plain JS code, you have to compile extensions like https://github.com/zone117x/node-multi-hashing. Not sure it will compile by default without tweaks. I guess you wanna run it for soloing? Then better install a VM or rent some cheap VPS with enough amount of RAM.
smooth
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November 09, 2014, 09:14:41 AM
 #16713

Hey Guys, question. I'm interested in running a monero pool. Ive been playing around with node-cryptonote-pool in ubuntu and I set it up. I'd like to now see if I can get it working in a windows computer. Can the pool run on a Windows 7 Pro pc? (reason I ask is that my windows 7 pc is faster and newer).

Don't think so, this is not plain JS code, you have to compile extensions like https://github.com/zone117x/node-multi-hashing. Not sure it will compile by default without tweaks. I guess you wanna run it for soloing? Then better install a VM or rent some cheap VPS with enough amount of RAM.

Or boot Linux. Easy to do without disturbing your Windows install with a USB stick, external HD, etc.
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November 09, 2014, 09:22:30 AM
 #16714

Thank you.

How much work is needed to make the DB windows and OS X compatible?



That is the purpose of LMDB implementation

Noob question - What is LMDB and what does it do? I haven't been here for a while
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November 09, 2014, 09:29:57 AM
 #16715

Thank you.

How much work is needed to make the DB windows and OS X compatible?



That is the purpose of LMDB implementation

Noob question - What is LMDB and what does it do? I haven't been here for a while

In the original cryptonote reference implementation the whole blockchain is stored in RAM. Bitcoin and Bitcoin-clone coins store it on disk, in a database. As time goes on and it gets larger, having it all in RAM becomes more of a problem.

We have implemented the ability to store the blockchain in a database instead of RAM and LMDB is an open source database package we are using for the first implementation.

tldr: very reduced memory usage

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November 09, 2014, 10:10:07 AM
 #16716


Noob question - What is LMDB and what does it do? I haven't been here for a while
[/quote]

In the original cryptonote reference implementation the whole blockchain is stored in RAM. Bitcoin and Bitcoin-clone coins store it on disk, in a database. As time goes on and it gets larger, having it all in RAM becomes more of a problem.

We have implemented the ability to store the blockchain in a database instead of RAM and LMDB is an open source database package we are using for the first implementation.

tldr: very reduced memory usage


[/quote]

So you solved one of the most important issue Smiley Congratulations Smiley
Happy to be mining Monero again Smiley
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November 09, 2014, 10:15:30 AM
 #16717

Beware of the Dark.....
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November 09, 2014, 03:08:52 PM
 #16718

Beware of the Dark.....

s/Dark/FUD
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November 09, 2014, 03:33:40 PM
 #16719

It would be foolish not to consider the competitive danger of an "anonymous" cryptocurrency with both a network effect advantage as well as a sable codebase, a working disk based database and a user friendly front end at a time when dark markets are learning they are once again vulnerable because of public blockchains.

The iron may be getting hot. 

Monero needs to be ready to strike.
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November 09, 2014, 03:48:46 PM
 #16720

It would be foolish not to consider the competitive danger of an "anonymous" cryptocurrency with both a network effect advantage as well as a sable codebase, a working disk based database and a user friendly front end at a time when dark markets are learning they are once again vulnerable because of public blockchains.

The iron may be getting hot. 

Monero needs to be ready to strike.

+1, there is a window of opportunity opening and we should not miss it.

Monero's privacy and therefore fungibility are MUCH stronger than Bitcoin's. 
This makes Monero a better candidate to deserve the term "digital cash".
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