[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[superresistant]

http://www.wired.com/2014/11/darkcoin-and-online-drug-dealers/

Over the last month, two of the dark web markets selling an anonymous, mail-order catalog of narcotics and other contraband have begun supporting darkcoin transactions. On a site called Nucleus, visitors can now use darkcoin to buy LSD, MDMA, and marijuana. On the competing market Diabolus, dealers accept it for cocaine, synthetic stimulants like ethylone and alpha-PVP, and even counterfeit Euros. Those two markets still represent only a tiny fraction of the growing dark web drug economy—most of which uses bitcoin exclusively.

We cannot wait too long before going full steam on marketing.

indeed. I'm waiting for webwallet/GUI to start actively advertising on the darknet though... it just doesn't make sense to do it now.

Agree, let's wait for a stable webwallet/GUI.
Be patient everyone, I feel that it's gonna get really big.
Darkcoin bring nothing new to anonymity, it is just Bitcoin with a paying coin-mixer and constant press spamming.
Do not fall for it.

In every article I see, they state that Darkcoin is the world's first truly anonymous digital currency, or the world's first truly instantaneous and untraceable digital currency, or something of that nature. They are blatantly lying in their press materials. Even the title of their thread "First Anonymous Coin" is a lie. Tell me I'm wrong on this...

Every Darkcoin article is written by a big Darkcoin holder.
Darkcoin community is obsessed by the price, they talk about it day & night on the main thread and have no shame organizing pump.

Just to add my 2 duffs....... 
We are all in Crypto to make money.  Say whatever you want, but that is a core fact.

DRK community can only survive by spreading lies and myths to keep pumping the price.
Is is a short term strategy that will necessarily lead to either a crash or a very bad reputation.

Adding DRK to the darkmarket is totally irresponsible when you know the tech behind.
All masternodes are centralized on few VPS providers probably owned by few people.
All masternodes IP are public. All DRK addresses are visible with the amount of coins on it and the exact time of deposit.
You can mix transactions as much as you want, it doesn't make a cryptocurrency anonymous.

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[nakaone]

i agree, we need marketing soon. but slides and everything needed can already be produced now  
i too feel this will be really huge. the tech is superior, dev team is honest, community is grown up and coin is fair.

I think that we have to do 3 things first

+ GUI: better usability shows that XMR tech is mature and easy for mass market (== user adoption == liquidity)
+ Database: amount of memory required for XMR wallet is not trivial any more
+ Multi-signature: some deep web merchants may need it to protect their buyers

Amen to that.

The first point is actually an important one.

it is crucial - crosspost from xmr economics

technology choice game

I want to share a different approach from the more or less empirical driven approach by risto why monero could be the special one. It is more in the tradition of evolutionary economics and game theory. I think it is quite a helpful approach to make sense of these uncertain markets and should be easy to understand even without an education as economist - I taught it to m.a. students which did not have a background in economics. probably even a guidance regarding development can be derived by it.

we need a few assumptions:

1.) the success of cryptoprotocols especially currencies is driven by network effects

2.) there is a niche for a decentralized private ledger and this niche cannot be filled by bitcoin (otherwise we could stop here)

3.) there is a competitors on the market, existent, or coming in the future

4.) the utility of a network grows with the number of participants



5.) we have two competing technologies, in this case monero and zerocash and three different agents

6.) we assume that zerocash is even superior to monero (zerocash is a placeholder for all coming superior private decentralized ledger)

7.) we assume that two agents coordinated on the inferior technology (in this case monero) get the same utility as the one coordinated on the superior technology, whereas three agents coordinated on the inferior technology get as much as two on the superior technology



8.)
T1 = Zerocash > T2= Monero

9.) utility: numerical example 1T1=2, 2T1=3 3T1=4; 1T2=1 2T2=2 3T2=3

10.) 3T1 with the utility of 4,4,4 is obviously a nash-equilibrium, what is more important is that 3T2 with 3,3,3 is a nash-equilibrium as well, in this case the utility of the network outweights the superiority of the technology


What is important to understand is that we should make very sure that we get the second agent, if we reached this stadium and the rest is relatively sound the war is won. The guidance is obviously that we need a gui to include more people of the agent 2 case. At this point there is no serious competitor, but this will probably change in the future. We do not need to be feared as long as we manage to get agent 2.

This illustration also shows why bitcoiners do not need to be feared of any altcoins - the war over the transparent ledger is won.

The weaknesses of this approach are obviously its simplifications - how do we measure utility of privacy etc. pp, but as an illustration, I guess it is sound

[digicoin]

This http://www.reddit.com/r/DarkNetMarkets/comments/2jnkmg/can_someone_please_explain_how_blockchain_can_be/clde5cc

Agoramarket seems to be fairly confident that bitcoin exchanges can work as tumblers. I am not sure what happens when most of exchanges are required to register as Money Transmitter. I don't think Agoramarket's tactics can work in that case

[BanditryAndLoot]

It's here guys 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=846378.new#new

Maybe now we can start to get a better picture on how the market will weigh different privacy applications in cryptocurrency?

[nakaone]

It's here guys 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=846378.new#new

Maybe now we can start to get a better picture on how the market will weigh different privacy applications in cryptocurrency?

maybe too early to say - but I think no it is not a serious competitor

[smooth]

It's here guys 

What's here?

Zerocoin is old technology that was considered and rejected by the cryptocurrency community. The proofs are too large and too slow.

Zerocash is more interesting but is not here.

[Jungian]

It's here guys 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=846378.new#new

Maybe now we can start to get a better picture on how the market will weigh different privacy applications in cryptocurrency?

What's here? Another scam pump and dump? Oh yeah!

[BanditryAndLoot]

It's here guys  

What's here?

Zerocoin is old technology that was considered and rejected by the cryptocurrency community. The proofs are too large and too slow.

Zerocash is more interesting but is not here.

True, I would rather see a working zerocash implementation.

Admittedly though, I'd rather read about a Zerocoin implementation struggling to make it rather than adderrall, bitreplica, or whatever else made it to my grey list just today and every single day lol.

Just the choices that are here for me to see right now.

I guess that zerocoin now has two(?) potential applicationsimplementations in cryptocurrencies just means that zerocash is likely getting that much closer.

Hm, apparently you're not allowed to ask questions on their thread..?

[dewdeded]

I think that we have to do 3 things first

+ GUI: better usability shows that XMR tech is mature and easy for mass market (== user adoption == liquidity)
+ Database: amount of memory required for XMR wallet is not trivial any more
+ Multi-signature: some deep web merchants may need it to protect their buyers

Confirmed. These things are requirements.

Admins of the big relevant dark markets are very conservative vs. new technology and OpSec.
They wont introduce a coin that is still developed and unproven ATM like XMR, Dark, etc.

Darkcoin is in no lead regards dark market acceptance. From what I heard and read, all influencing and respected Dark Market community members (like gwern, Blackopy, mdparity, TMPSchultz ...) are either 100%  undecided (and prefer to wait to see which coin is gonna fly) or slightly prefering Cryptonote-technology.

If and only if Monero can prove to add real benefit to Dark Market business, Monero will get accepted at the major leading Dark Markets.
The coin with the best technology will win this race to Dark Market dominance. Agressive marketing or a well-known brand (like Darkcoin) wont.

[dEBRUYNE]

The coin with the best technology will win this race to Dark Market dominance. Agressive marketing or a well-known brand (like Darkcoin) wont.

i feel so too. Most vendors specially in tech dark markets have very strong technological knowhow and are also very conservative with security.


BUT this does not mean the race is over, its far from over. we slip down further everyday, the dumping still seems to be endless..

Agree on the dumping part, looks familiar to the random 1k btc dumps we had. Someone just keeps dumping 10-20k while prices were never this low.. Maybe some big guys who bought before exchanges and wants out. We will never know for sure.

[dewdeded]

i dont understand the selling, even as professional pump&dumper or manipulative investor there should be better ways to profit much bigger from XMR hard facts like: hype/great image/solid tech/devs/...


i dont know, but bottom should be reached very soon, cant go much lower to make sense for devs and everybody to stay involved

i dont understand why there are not big buyers (rich BTC kids) supporting like in so many shit-altcoins or other senseless projects

the price is sick, on the other hand I use to buy to buy more (big leverage vs. $5 XMR was)

[UnicornFarts]

i dont understand the selling, even as professional pump&dumper or manipulative investor there should be better ways to profit much bigger from XMR hard facts like: hype/great image/solid tech/devs/...


i dont know, but bottom should be reached very soon, cant go much lower to make sense for devs and everybody to stay involved

i dont understand why there are not big buyers (rich BTC kids) supporting like in so many shit-altcoins or other senseless projects

the price is sick, on the other hand I use to buy to buy more (big leverage vs. $5 XMR was)

I think the problem is the accumulators of the coin feel much poorer with btc at 330 vs 450.  My guess is that many of them are moving significant sums into fiat out of fear.

The general consensus seems to me people are thinking btc is going to the 200 range & maybe lower.  If that's the case it doesn't make sense to invest. I expected rptellia to go backwards on putting a 100btc buywall.

Also the emission curve. .

[dewdeded]

I think the problem is the accumulators of the coin feel much poorer with btc at 330 vs 450.  My guess is that many of them are moving significant sums into fiat out of fear.

The general consensus seems to me people are thinking btc is going to the 200 range & maybe lower.  If that's the case it doesn't make sense to invest. I expected rptellia to go backwards on putting a 100btc buywall.

its still very noteworthy and to me strange that XMR is getting so less support, so many very, very bad coins and crypto-related projects or out right scams got overfunded (with xx000 BTC)

XMR on the other side, has real strong fundamentals and solid potential and is getting no support, mad world IHMO

[nakaone]

I think the problem is the accumulators of the coin feel much poorer with btc at 330 vs 450.  My guess is that many of them are moving significant sums into fiat out of fear.

The general consensus seems to me people are thinking btc is going to the 200 range & maybe lower.  If that's the case it doesn't make sense to invest. I expected rptellia to go backwards on putting a 100btc buywall.

its still very noteworthy and to me strange that XMR is getting so less support, so many very, very bad coins and crypto-related projects or out right scams got overfunded (with xx000 BTC)

XMR on the other side, has real strong fundamentals and solid potential and is getting no support, mad world IHMO

why do you think it gets no support? it is still around ~12th place on coinmarketcap. and you can even assume that a distribution which is fair is leading to higher pressure on the sell side in a downswing.

the inflation is sick high and the visible part of the development is slow

I still say it is the project with the highest expected value long term.

[smooth]

think the problem is the accumulators of the coin feel much poorer with btc at 330 vs 450.  My guess is that many of them are moving significant sums into fiat out of fear.

That is a lot of it. Even if not moving to fiat, reducing and staying away from riskier positions.

Take a look at the entire table on https://bitcoinwisdom.com/. Pay particular attention to to 30-day change numbers. This even includes coins with minimal emissions/inflation or PoS (no mining at all). We are very much in line with the market, which tells me that most of the XMR-specific explanations are likely overdone or incorrect.

[smooth]

what is happening?

http://chainradar.com/xmr/block/291081

why so low fees?

There is some miner running an old version of the node, so they will occasionally pick up transactions created with old versions of the wallet.

[Eastwind]

what is happening?

http://chainradar.com/xmr/block/291081

why so low fees?

There is some miner running an old version of the node, so they will occasionally pick up transactions created with old versions of the wallet.

Are these miner using the old wallet? What is the old version of the node? If the transaction is created with new versions of the wallet, will this 0.01 fee happen with the miner using old node?

When you implement a new fee regime, do you need to hard fork can say that from  block height X, new fee should be applied?

[papa_lazzarou]

Are these miner using the old wallet? What is the old version of the node? If the transaction is created with new versions of the wallet, will this 0.01 fee happen with the miner using old node?

When you implement a new fee regime, do you need to hard fork can say that from  block height X, new fee should be applied?

If I understand it correctly, the stated amount (0.1 new vs 0.01 old ) is the minimum fee. So the older version miner accepts all transactions above the minimum. 0.1 and 0.01 alike.

Maybe there will be some hiccups when the transition is made to the per-KB based fees.

Question:
An hypothetically rejected transaction rejected by an old version node is eventually picked up by a current version one, right?

[pa]

Did I miss the missive?

[smooth]

An hypothetically rejected transaction rejected by an old version node is eventually picked up by a current version one, right?

Yes that is how it works. What happens is you first submit the transaction to your own node (daemon), which accepts it because it is the same version as your wallet. Your node tries to forward it to other nodes.

Then three other things will need to happen:

1. Your node will need to connect to one or more nodes willing to accept your transaction

2. Your transaction will need to get forwarded to a miner willing to mine it

3. The miner will need to successfully find a block including your transaction.

Initially this should not be a problem since there always seem to be some fraction of nodes and miners who don't upgrade right away, but over time it will become slower and less likely to work at all (there is a 24 hour time limit). That is how it worked out when the change to 0.1 fee was made.