[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[SmoothCurves]

Which party uses stealth addresses? Money sender or money receiver? Or both?

Both sender and receiver use stealth addresses as one time addresses on the blockchain:

So, if I were to pay the developer team 50 XMR, looking at the blockchain one would only be able to determine: ______ gave ______ exactly ______ XMR.

Looking at your IP address and the blockchain, one would only be able to determine (at best): You ______ ______ exactly ______ XMR.

Looking at their IP address and the blockchain, one would only be able to determine (at best): ______ ______ them exactly ______ XMR.

If both parties are using I2PD and someone is looking at your ip's and the blockchain (at best): ______ ______ ______ ______ ______ ______.

Very nice way of illustrating the idea.

[Bavaria]

Which party uses stealth addresses? Money sender or money receiver? Or both?

Both sender and receiver use stealth addresses as one time addresses on the blockchain:

So, if I were to pay the developer team 50 XMR, looking at the blockchain one would only be able to determine: ______ gave ______ exactly ______ XMR.

Looking at your IP address and the blockchain, one would only be able to determine (at best): You ______ ______ exactly ______ XMR.

Looking at their IP address and the blockchain, one would only be able to determine (at best): ______ ______ them exactly ______ XMR.

If both parties are using I2PD and someone is looking at your ip's and the blockchain (at best): ______ ______ ______ ______ ______ ______.

If both sides (sender and receiver) use stealth addresses, this means that Monero is fully anonymous right?

[Este Nuno]

How does BitcoinDark compare to CryptoNote?

I made a post about how the two technologies work together here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=898563.msg10001278#msg10001278.

[G2M]

If both sides (sender and receiver) use stealth addresses, this means that Monero is fully anonymous right?

I would hesitate to say yes here, only because Monero can be both 'fully anonymous' and 'fully transparent' within the same blockchain.

While it does offer untraceability and unlinkability through ring signatures and stealth addressing, you are given the choice of a mixin value with which you want to 'mix' your pennies with. In this sense, you can mix with anywhere from zero pennies to, say, twenty pennies.

When choosing a mixin of zero, you do not use mixins and your transaction becomes traceable. You still use stealth addresses no matter what, so that the receiver may choose to retain their unlinkability and untraceability when in the future they decide to use the money they have received.

To retain your own personal unlinkability and untraceability, this would best be done using two wallets. Have the sender, who chooses to use a zero mixin (Example: Poloniex), send the funds to a one-time wallet created by yourself that you control, and then send those funds to your personal wallet with funds you wish to keep unlinkable and untraceable.

This will be at the expense of transaction fees for you, likely less than .1 XMR.

Additionally, if you were aware that the person you were sending funds to was going to choose to not use mixins, and you wish your funds to not be traced to the transaction in the future, then you may send funds to a second, disposable, wallet that you control for the sake of this one transaction, and send the funds to their destination from your interim wallet so that your money remains unlinkable and untraceable to your original coins.

Consider your interim wallets like a bank deposit. While banks generally collect your SS#, or some identifying information that permanently links your identity to your account, Monero does not. The bank deposits are linkable, but the 'cash' going into them from untraceable and unlinkable wallet funds are not. Somewhat like you're temporarily 'borrowing' someone else's bank account for a single transaction.

Understand that the method described above are precautionary measures, on the grounds that you are making the choice to not place your unlinkability into any type of unknown. If you are 100% positive that the wallet you're sending Monero to will be using a mixin value, then there is no need to make this decision at all. It's all your choice though.

Additionally, your wallet creates a view key when you create a new wallet. It is not capable of deriving this key from your wallet address, and it is not stored on the blockchain, but is published only once the very first time you create a wallet. If this view key is shared with a third party, it will give them the ability to observe both the wallet addresses you sent money to as well as the actual amount of the transaction. The third party does not have the ability to control the funds in the wallet, however. The wallet does not currently have the tooling incorporated to allow this functionality to be used by regular users, but mymonero.com does use this functionality in providing you a web wallet. The tooling will be included in the standard user wallet in the future.

Finally, a standard transaction will allow a transaction ID to be added to every transaction. This data can be used for anything, or nothing at all. For example, it can be used to provide tracking between you and another person without the use of the view key.

So, as far as 'fully anonymous' goes, I would say that is only a part of Monero, and not the entire deal.

[bitcoinrocks]

How does BitcoinDark compare to CryptoNote?

I made a post about how the two technologies work together here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=898563.msg10001278#msg10001278.

Interesting.  So BTCD is actually a good project.  Are there any worthwhile anon coins besides CN and BTCD?

[stslimited]

and XMR + BTC complete each other, Monero is the altcoin.

The default transparent ledger (btc) and the default private ledger (xmr) are like a yin-yang combo. But if you think about it, aren't XMR's use-cases far heavier? A transparent ledger is great for charity fundraising and aid distribution, crowdfunding, public funds, etc. where we want everyone to see everything. But a private ledger is more appropriate for private wealth storage, cross-border corporate finance, offshore banking, etc.

yes, just GET THAT DAMN BLOCKCHAIN OUT OF MEMORY

- Have the entire network reject transactions of mixin 0, 1 and 2

- Do the I2PD layer thing


and then we can work on building software on top of it

[othe]

How does BitcoinDark compare to CryptoNote?

I made a post about how the two technologies work together here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=898563.msg10001278#msg10001278.

Interesting.  So BTCD is actually a good project.  Are there any worthwhile anon coins besides CN and BTCD?

There is no anonymity code in BTCD afaik, at least there wasn't last time i checked. that answers your question i hope.

yes, just GET THAT DAMN BLOCKCHAIN OUT OF MEMORY

DID YOU TEST THE BLOCKCHAIN BRANCH? https://github.com/tewinget/bitmonero/commits/blockchain

We are missing testers and especially results, we can't test it on hundreds of different pcs ourselves

[G2M]

We are missing testers and especially results, we can't test it on hundreds of different pcs ourselves

I've got 3-5 I can put it on.

Does anything compile on 32 bit machines?

Does it compile for multiple OS's? I can do some linux and maybe windows compiles, maybe more if I put the time into it.

[stslimited]

How does BitcoinDark compare to CryptoNote?

I made a post about how the two technologies work together here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=898563.msg10001278#msg10001278.

Interesting.  So BTCD is actually a good project.  Are there any worthwhile anon coins besides CN and BTCD?

There is no anonymity code in BTCD afaik, at least there wasn't last time i checked. that answers your question i hope.

yes, just GET THAT DAMN BLOCKCHAIN OUT OF MEMORY

DID YOU TEST THE BLOCKCHAIN BRANCH? https://github.com/tewinget/bitmonero/commits/blockchain

We are missing testers and especially results, we can't test it on hundreds of different pcs ourselves

I was informed that transactions fail sometimes with it

I'll wait

[Este Nuno]

How does BitcoinDark compare to CryptoNote?

I made a post about how the two technologies work together here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=898563.msg10001278#msg10001278.

Interesting.  So BTCD is actually a good project.  Are there any worthwhile anon coins besides CN and BTCD?

There is no anonymity code in BTCD afaik, at least there wasn't last time i checked. that answers your question i hope.

https://github.com/jl777/btcd/tree/master/libjl777

Code is there. It's still being tested though so it's not enabled in the live version.

[othe]

Looking at the commit messages i might prefer to crawl through my trashcan instead of that code.

jl777

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[smooth]

Does anything compile on 32 bit machines?

Maybe. There was one issue with I think 128 bit multiplication not being implemented in the standard (32-bit) GCC library, but there is a portable version in the Monero code itself, so that just needs to be tweaked a bit (might already be done).

[nioc]

Finally, a standard transaction will allow a transaction ID to be added to every transaction. This data can be used for anything, or nothing at all. For example, it can be used to provide tracking between you and another person without the use of the view key.

So, as far as 'fully anonymous' goes, I would say that is only a part of Monero, and not the entire deal.

Thank you for the detailed explanations today

Did you mean payment ID?

[Toninho]

Hi, What is the best pool to miner XMR ?

[smooth]

Hi, What is the best pool to miner XMR ?

See list of pools here

[Atrides]

I'd just suggest that if you did come up with a plan of your own design with your own choice of milestones, you would likely be able to raise more funding from more people. But it is your choice as project organizer how to do it. If you just want to do simple donations and can make that work, go for it. I've already donated and I said I'd donate more later, so this isn't an issue for me, just my opinion.

I would call the main goal of the first step to do a freebazaar platform, corresponded with the OB state at the deadline moment (ca.a month), with using Monero as a means of paying. in reality, the more detailed plan can be only made
1) after we choose what the direction to go: own way or confluence into OB.
I'm going to discuss this point with donators, their thoughts, suggestions.., to contact OB devs
2) as well as after learning and analysing the whole OB code, its functions. that will take me a while, we want the thing to be stable and secure.

OB has got about 260 open bugs actually, some of them I will have to fix to get monero parts working. but I also suppose, the most complicated part will be developing of well-operating monero escrow without multisig.

I won't integrate the market in any GUI wallet.but I realize a communiation with monero wallets via API.
to core devs: will be there any API to mymonero?
I agree you smooth as esrow and the final arbiter

[GreekBitcoin]

I will also consider donating a few hundred XMRs in a few days. I want to see how things go first...

[smooth]

I would call the main goal of the first step to do a freebazaar platform, corresponded with the OB state at the deadline moment (ca.a month), with using Monero as a means of paying. in reality, the more detailed plan can be only made

If I'm reading this correctly (and forgive my uncertainty over what I suspect are some language issues), I believe Atrides is proposing that the phase one FreeBazaar deliverable would be a feature-equivalent port of OpenBazaar at some specified deadline (approximately one month), with these exceptions:

1. XMR is supported as the payment method instead of BTC

2. A third party escrow feature is integrated to take the place of on-chain multisig, which doesn't exist in XMR (and won't in one month). Presumably this includes some sort of trust/rating system for escrow providers (maybe this already exists in OB and it can be repurposed, I don't know)

If I'm understanding correctly then I'm willing to serve as escrow and/or arbiter (the two functions can be separated if desired) on whether this milestone has been achieved. Whoever is doing the arbiter function should get possibly get a fee, since it will require doing some research in order to determine whether the criteria have been satisfied. I'm willing to perform the escrow function at no charge to support the project, and maybe the arbiter function if the criteria are made very clear and easy to judge.

[stslimited]

I would call the main goal of the first step to do a freebazaar platform, corresponded with the OB state at the deadline moment (ca.a month), with using Monero as a means of paying. in reality, the more detailed plan can be only made

If I'm reading this correctly (and forgive my uncertainty over what I suspect are some language issues), I believe Atrides is proposing that the phase one FreeBazaar deliverable would be a feature-equivalent port of OpenBazaar at some specified deadline (approximately one month), with these exceptions:

1. XMR is supported as the payment method instead of BTC

2. A third party escrow feature is integrated to take the place of on-chain multisig, which doesn't exist in XMR (and won't in one month). Presumably this includes some sort of trust/rating system for escrow providers (maybe this already exists in OB and it can be repurposed, I don't know)

If I'm understanding correctly then I'm willing to serve as escrow and/or arbiter (the two functions can be separated if desired) on whether this milestone has been achieved. Whoever is doing the arbiter function should get possibly get a fee, since it will require doing some research in order to determine whether the criteria have been satisfied. I'm willing to perform the escrow function at no charge to support the project, and maybe the arbiter function if the criteria are made very clear and easy to judge.

yeah some sort of checks and balances would be essential, but wouldn't multiple signers on a bitreserve account be cool too (if that was possible)

[David Latapie]

I don't think we have a tutorial for services willing to add Monero, like a casino (such as DirectBet) or an exchange (such as Poloniex). Could someone start one?