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Author Topic: [ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"  (Read 1151236 times)
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Northstar
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November 29, 2015, 06:50:19 PM
 #5721


Only 12 million + more undug clams to go

Who will hit the next jackpot?

Wink

I assume a lot of clams were distributed to "lost" addresses, ie addresses that were "migratory" in one way or another, ones that had miniscule amounts of currency in them, on exchanges or in private wallets, that have been lost forever because people didn't keep them or don't even remember about them. I know I have at least 5 such addresses that I didn't bother keeping credentials for.
I am curious however just what percentage of the total clam supply has fallen victim to such lost addresses.
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November 29, 2015, 06:56:24 PM
 #5722


Only 12 million + more undug clams to go

Who will hit the next jackpot?

Wink

I assume a lot of clams were distributed to "lost" addresses, ie addresses that were "migratory" in one way or another, ones that had miniscule amounts of currency in them, on exchanges or in private wallets, that have been lost forever because people didn't keep them or don't even remember about them. I know I have at least 5 such addresses that I didn't bother keeping credentials for.
I am curious however just what percentage of the total clam supply has fallen victim to such lost addresses.

It would be interesting to know, but probably impossible to figure out.

 
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November 29, 2015, 07:29:36 PM
 #5723

I'm all out of CLAMs. I sold 50 btc at 0.00076 and about 50 btc more around 0.0008. That's it for me. The price should go up now. Great for those that got in at such a cheap price!

To those among the buyers of these CLAMs: Please consider staking some of them with my pool or on your own. If all these new CLAMs find their way into the JD bankroll, it does nothing to help decentralize the network. In practice I do expect a lot of them to find their way there though.

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November 29, 2015, 07:37:12 PM
 #5724

I'm all out of CLAMs. I sold 50 btc at 0.00076 and about 50 btc more around 0.0008. That's it for me. The price should go up now. Great for those that got in at such a cheap price!

To those among the buyers of these CLAMs: Please consider staking some of them with my pool or on your own. If they all find there way into the JD bankroll, it does nothing to help decentralize the network. In practice I do expect a lot of them to find their way there though.




I support this message. I can understand why someone might be hesitant to move their already-staking CLAMS from JD since they'd be losing out on 4 hours maturity time. But for the new yet-to-be-staked CLAMS, there's no excuse. Decentralize your CLAMS people  Wink
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November 29, 2015, 07:42:15 PM
 #5725

I'm all out of CLAMs. I sold 50 btc at 0.00076 and about 50 btc more around 0.0008. That's it for me. The price should go up now. Great for those that got in at such a cheap price!

To those among the buyers of these CLAMs: Please consider staking some of them with my pool or on your own. If they all find there way into the JD bankroll, it does nothing to help decentralize the network. In practice I do expect a lot of them to find their way there though.




I support this message. I can understand why someone might be hesitant to move their already-staking CLAMS from JD since they'd be losing out on 4 hours maturity time. But for the new yet-to-be-staked CLAMS, there's no excuse. Decentralize your CLAMS people  Wink

In my pool you don't lose out (unless your deposit is huge relative to the pool). I made a deliberate decision not to impose a waiting period on new deposits because at this point and especially earlier existing pool members benefit from growing the pool. You start accruing your share of staking immediately upon deposit.

This can't be gamed because of the rule against excessively frequent deposits and withdraws. If someone tried to deposit, claim an unfair share of the staking, and then withdraw I would consider that a violation of the rule and make an adjustment.

In the future if the pool becomes large I will account for the maturity time on new deposits more explicitly (probably with a small deposit fee that will be paid to existing pool members).

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November 29, 2015, 07:49:07 PM
 #5726


Only 12 million + more undug clams to go

Who will hit the next jackpot?

Wink

I assume a lot of clams were distributed to "lost" addresses, ie addresses that were "migratory" in one way or another, ones that had miniscule amounts of currency in them, on exchanges or in private wallets, that have been lost forever because people didn't keep them or don't even remember about them. I know I have at least 5 such addresses that I didn't bother keeping credentials for.
I am curious however just what percentage of the total clam supply has fallen victim to such lost addresses.

I am thinking in the exact oposite case. CLAM digging could be used to detect how much bitcoins have been lost in history.
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November 29, 2015, 08:10:09 PM
 #5727

It's been a wild day in the life of Clams. Without objection, I'll take credit for the turnaround. As soon as I floated my "100 clam block reward" proposal, curious sold the rest of his clams as quickly as possible. You're welcome.

In all seriousness, it looks like we may come through this episode. Maybe we need T-shirts and coffee mugs: "I survived Clampocalypse."

Earlier today when the price was so low it led me to ask some important questions, like: What in the world is "Feathercoin" and why does it have a higher market cap?

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November 29, 2015, 08:19:28 PM
 #5728

"I survived Clampocalypse."

Bump that. If i get back mi 1.1BTC i want that shirt.
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November 29, 2015, 08:25:04 PM
 #5729

I expect the price to recover to around 0.002-0.003 before long, which is a 100-200% return from the current price.

Heh, that didn't take long. I'm a trading genius obv.
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November 29, 2015, 08:26:40 PM
 #5730

Congrats to the people who got those buys this morning at .0008 and under. CLAM will survive. My bet is no changes get made. This digger is most likely an anomaly, at least a rarity. There could be a few others like him, but as someone previously said lost addresses are probably represented highly as well. In any case, CLAM has always been consolidating, it has consolidation built into it in just-dice investors. It's only a matter of time and slow sustained buys from investors before the speculators get comfortable with a higher price and end up paying more than what they would have today. I'll make sure to have BTC ready in time next time if we see those prices. I was too slow today. Doubtful that the market can sustain much lower than .001 unless JD goes tits up, doog goes crazy, or another digger appears. Value "as long as everything is going right" is much higher than today's price, IMO, based on betting volumes, so each day we go post-digger without a bad event should push us higher.
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November 29, 2015, 08:39:19 PM
 #5731

Sounds like the threat of changing the coin rules in favor of early adopters was avoided. That's a good thing for clam and it's trustworthiness. It's always not a good sign when rules can be changed that everyone builds on being static rules. I'm happy that clam did not go that way.

Please ALWAYS contact me through bitcointalk pm before sending someone coins.
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November 29, 2015, 08:43:42 PM
 #5732

There could be a few others like him, but as someone previously said lost addresses are probably represented highly as well.

The other thing to bear in mind is that the bigger the supply gets, the less impact any one whale digger can have. The 500K CLAM dig was 60% of the existing supply. Another 500K dig now would only be 40%. The longer time goes on the smaller the impact.

Quote
Doubtful that the market can sustain much lower than .001 unless JD goes tits up, doog goes crazy, or another digger appears. Value "as long as everything is going right" is much higher than today's price, IMO, based on betting volumes, so each day we go post-digger without a bad event should push us higher.

Agree.
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November 29, 2015, 09:06:56 PM
 #5733

Either people are betting recklessly at the moment, or their luck has been out in the last couple of days! 

The price is dreadful, but I will hold/invest/bet CLAM still.
People like having a go at Dooglus, but I would be worried about storing lots of coins at almost any other altcoin gambling site.  JD being trustworthy is a massive part of the clam environment imo.
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November 29, 2015, 09:07:52 PM
 #5734

what a fake pump!

congrats!
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November 29, 2015, 09:18:04 PM
 #5735

Either people are betting recklessly at the moment, or their luck has been out in the last couple of days! 

The price is dreadful, but I will hold/invest/bet CLAM still.
People like having a go at Dooglus, but I would be worried about storing lots of coins at almost any other altcoin gambling site.  JD being trustworthy is a massive part of the clam environment imo.

oops, hadn't looked at the price, a bit better now!
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November 29, 2015, 09:35:28 PM
 #5736

what a fake pump!

congrats!

I disagree. There is nothing particularly fake about it, and this price range is well supported by fundamentals as I posted yesterday.

If anything what was fake was the bear raid that was going on complete with high volumes of shorting and FUD being posted here constantly.

Nothing has really happened that has changed the fundamentals except a 60% supply increase (which would support a 40% price drop, or perhaps a bit less) and the bear raiders lost their "Whale Digger" boogeyman.
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November 29, 2015, 09:39:30 PM
 #5737

By removing the core distribution process from clam, would kill this coin.

Yesterday Creative posted her draft "CLAMour" voting proposal, allowing the community to vote whether they want to change things like the distribution process. The coin didn't die.

If you can't take the volatility of an altcoin you shouldn't even be here. You still have the option of cashing out before the digger dumps the rest of his stash. Give the market some time to shift into place.
Clam will end up being around 10k sats before it starts rising again.

CLAM hit a low of 72k then a high of 300k a few hours ago:



The digger now claims to have sold his remaining CLAMs. The price started rising as soon as he said this.

Not sure about the 10,000 block time frame though, it doesn't seem like enough time for a real vote to occur.

It's a rolling window of 1 week. It's not like a petition has a week to gather support. It lives until it gains 50% (or whatever) support over any 1 week period.

Is the Clamour name a take on the word clamor?

No, on the word "clamour. Smiley

Quote
clamour
verb
Make a vehement protest or demand:
scientists are clamouring for a ban on all chlorine substances

They will stake separately, but may be recombined when you stake, depending on your config.

So, how do you set the config so they won't recombine?

    combinelimit=0 in clam.conf

Its default value is 1, which means it will attempt to combine values of less than 1 CLAM together, but nothing bigger than 1.

You can also:

    combineany=1

which means it will consider combining outputs even if they are on different addresses.

For Just-Dice's hot wallet I use:

    combinelimit=25
    combineany=1
    splitsize=13.37

to keep the outputs around 13 to 25 CLAMs in size, and allow cross-address combining.

Edit: oh, and I meant to say... if you want to see an example of a big transaction sending to multiple addresses with {"amount":...,"count":...}, check this one out. That's me splitting all the recent new Just-Dice deposits up for staking.

About the current/future whale diggers, one possibility I haven't heard mentioned would be very simple and would dilute the initial distribution: increase the reward. There's at least a precedent for changing the reward system in Clams.

That certainly has a couple of benefits over decreasing the 4.6 CLAM reward:

1) We don't have to break any promises. "If you owned BTC you may already own CLAM!" stays true. The 4.6 per address that you "may already own!" stays there. We aren't accused of deleting people's property.

2) Technically, it's awkward to implement a reduction in the initial rewards. What if I've dug my address but not spent or staked it yet? I see 4.6 CLAMs in my wallet. One day I update the client and what, my balance drops to 2.3? What if I try spending my 4.6 CLAMs just before the hard fork, but by the time it confirms the fork has happened and my transaction is no longer valid? It's a mess.

This would likely be terrible for the price. It might push us below 0.001. (<- That's intended as dark humour. I have looked at the price today.)

It would reduce the price per CLAM, but everyone's CLAM holdings would be growing at the same pace (except for those who aren't staking, of course) so the market cap should stay about the same.

I doubt such a proposal would be successful, even though it's better than trying to reduce the initial reward in my opinion. Rich CLAM holders voting to make themselves richer isn't good from a PR angle...

I still don't really understand what's supposed to happen in the event of a successful vote. Can you expand on that? So far I gather that nothing really happens, it's just a metric you can use to assess whether x% of people are likely to run a new fork with your proposed changes. It'd be up to the petition-maker to implement any changes they'd like to see, and convince people to run the new version.

Is that about the gist of it?

Yes, that's about it. It's a way of discovering what "we" want. Once we know what we want, implementing it is relatively simple. And since so many of us want it, it shouldn't be hard to find one of us with the necessary skills (or budget) to make it happen.

how do I use -staketo

just this?:
./clamd -staketo=<addresshere>  

Yes, or in clam.conf without the hyphen.

I use:

    staketo=xJDCLAMZW9xZEFRfWhxXkcCGYkHAzhsjT5

in clam.conf.

Just-Dice                 ██             
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   Play or Invest                 ██             
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   1% House Edge
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November 29, 2015, 09:45:09 PM
 #5738

how long do clams have to sit there before they start staking?

Every year the world is getting more peaceful.
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November 29, 2015, 09:49:09 PM
 #5739


how do I use -staketo

just this?:
./clamd -staketo=<addresshere>  

Yes, or in clam.conf without the hyphen.

I use:

    staketo=xJDCLAMZW9xZEFRfWhxXkcCGYkHAzhsjT5

in clam.conf.

If I don't use -staketo  where do they end up going?  Just to the same address that staked?

Thanks.

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November 29, 2015, 09:57:11 PM
 #5740

About the current/future whale diggers, one possibility I haven't heard mentioned would be very simple and would dilute the initial distribution: increase the reward. There's at least a precedent for changing the reward system in Clams.

That certainly has a couple of benefits over decreasing the 4.6 CLAM reward:

It might also very well prompt a massive increase in the rate of digging. This digger very likely sped up his digging in response to talk of a fork that would prevent him from digging the rest. If a big increase in the staking rate is proposed, others will likely accelerate their digging as well.

Instead we should leave well enough alone, stop creating more evidence in support of the law of unintended consequences, and allow confidence to recover. With the damage that is already done that will take some time already, but it can happen.

Quote
1) We don't have to break any promises. "If you owned BTC you may already own CLAM!" stays true. The 4.6 per address that you "may already own!" stays there. We aren't accused of deleting people's property.

No, you will be accused of diluting people's property instead. Congratulations.

Quote
It's a rolling window of 1 week. It's not like a petition has a week to gather support. It lives until it gains 50% (or whatever) support over any 1 week period

What happens when support subsequently changes after the 50% support is reached? Coins change hands, opinions change and suddenly something that had 50% support last week doesn't this week. This week being an excellent example since apparently 200K+ coins have apparently changed hands.

The most meaningful proposals will be ones that are ready to implement quickly if supported. Otherwise the voting should continue and the 10K window be viewed as just that, an ongoing "window" into current opinion of stakeholders. Or alternately a second vote can be held at a later date to reaffirm, once an implementation is ready.

This of course won't be an issue for uncontroversial proposals that will get significant support regardless of the time window. It is my hope that stakeholders are enlightened enough to decline to vote for controversial proposals where the inevitable conflict will cause damage to the community even if they personally believe the idea is a good one (and instead work to educate the community such that if the idea really is a good one, support can be achieved). This will force those putting forth a proposal to craft it in a manner that gains overwhelming support instead of trying to use the voting mechanism as a PR tool to legitimize a 51% attack. I'm not entirely optimistic, but we will see.


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