[ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"

[Johnny00]

If you have 1000 clamp would just stake them or keep them on just dice site?

[tspacepilot]

If you have 1000 clamp would just stake them or keep them on just dice site?

If I had 1000 clamps, I would sell most of them, but keep a few to help me with carpentry projects.  Now, if I had 1000 CLAMS, I think what I would do with them would depend on how I got them.  Sudden gift, or recently dug: I'd probably sell half and stake half.  If I just bought them, I'd probably stake for a while and hope the price climbs a bit too.

[Johnny00]

Yes sorry clams. Auto correct. I can't run a computer 24/7 though so that's an issue

[SuperClam]

Yes sorry clams. Auto correct. I can't run a computer 24/7 though so that's an issue

An alternative option, if he is still doing it: 
User 'smooth' was staking some CLAM for users. 
 
Otherwise, it is important that you stake consistently - it is likely more efficient for you to pool your CLAM at JD. 

[smooth]

Yes sorry clams. Auto correct. I can't run a computer 24/7 though so that's an issue

An alternative option, if he is still doing it: 
User 'smooth' was staking some CLAM for users. 
 
Otherwise, it is important that you stake consistently - it is likely more efficient for you to pool your CLAM at JD. 

Yes the staking pool is still open, but has only small users, so the stake rate is fairly low. It does consistently stake every few days or so.

Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1200703.0

Post there or PM me if interested in joining.

[dooglus]

Congratulations to The Great CLAM on reaching the one million blocks milestone!

It's been a while since I replied to posts here, so here goes:

My router has upnp setup does work with the clam coin client.   I saw same thing in the bitcoin core client but then it was fixed at some point.  Anyhow, what are the correct udp or tcp ports that need to be opened for home router to accept inbound traffic.

You want tcp/31174 open to the world for p2p connections, and tcp/30174 open locally if you want to use RPC. Don't open the RPC port globally unless you know what you're doing.

Can we get an updated bootstrap?

I've been updating it semi-regularly here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147.msg9772191#msg9772191

I did just update it too.

I think the lottery was poorly thought out, but not intentionally exploitable.

Not sure if this would considered exploitable, but you could have gained quite an advantage by only staking selectively.

It was exploitable for sure. I don't think it was designed to be exploitable; I think it was an accident. I did point out to the developers (on Jul 23 '14) that it seemed exploitable soon after it was launched (on Jul 12 '14) but it was already live by then:

--- Log opened Wed Jul 23 07:30:10 2014
07:30 <dooglus> so I guess we're going to do a hard fork some time soon-ish
07:30 <dooglus> I wonder if we should do some math on the lottery reward before that
07:30 <dooglus> I suspect it's game-able at the moment
07:33 <dooglus> suppose I have 1000 CLAM
07:33 <dooglus> I could split it into 200 piles of 5
07:34 <dooglus> each pile would stake every few days at best, giving me at best 100 stakes per day, or 10 CLAM per day?
07:35 <dooglus> alternatively, I could leave it as a single pile of 1000, and modify the client to only let it stake if it wins the lotto
07:35 <dooglus> after 10 days, it will have a weight of 10,000 and so will be entering the lottery very very often
07:36 <dooglus> I only let it post if it wins a decent amount
07:36 <dooglus> I suspect that after 10 days it will have won more than the 100 CLAMS I could have earned by splitting and staking honestly
07:37 <dooglus> and if not, after 20 days it will be entering the lottery twice as often, since it will be twice as old, twice the weight
07:37 <dooglus> whereas my piles of 5 won't be significantly different than they stated - earning 10 CLAM per day
07:42 <dooglus> the issue is that the frequency at which I can "enter" the lottery goes up linearly
07:42 <dooglus> whereas the cost of withholding is pretty linear

It turns out that the cheating that happened combined this with manipulating the timestamps on blocks. See how the timestamp on block 163967 is 6 minutes earlier than the that on the previous block:

--- Log opened Thu Oct 23 22:57:51 2014
23:04 <dooglus> SetBestChain: new best=66045c13690ec7a7242c  height=163966  trust=1539530299233  blocktrust=21933643  target=195  date=10/21/14 06:27:48
23:04 <dooglus> SetBestChain: new best=ef7b492dcf436a6c5790  height=163967  trust=1539540973066  blocktrust=10673833  target=402  date=10/21/14 06:21:40
23:04 <dooglus> the timestamps are very wrong - but they actually arrived very close together
23:04 <dooglus> the 2nd had nSubsidy: 93442202719.000000
23:04 <dooglus> >900 reward

so it turned out it was even more exploitable than I had previously thought.

Can anyone tell me a good size for each input in desktop wallet to maximize staking?  I was told 10-15, I was thinking 25?

Any assistance would be appreciated.

To maximize staking, smaller is better until you get to the point that your wallet is using all available CPU checking your outputs. You need to balance that against the future transaction fees required to recombine your outputs when you want to spend them. Note that splitting won't speed up staking, it will only reduce the effect of the 500 block maturation time after an output stakes.

these issues haunts me as well dooglus  mention about ~30 clam input, but I think This applies only to very long-term,
because first reward you have to wait very long-  40-50 day. (in case 10-15 input , even 3-4 month)

If you only have 30 CLAMs, you will be waiting an average of 30 days to stake no matter how you split them. If you have 3000 CLAMs and split them into 100 piles of 30, each of the piles will be waiting an average 30 days to stake, but one of them will get lucky and stake early. You can expect a few of them to stake each day on average. If instead you split them into 1000 piles of 3, each will be waiting about a year to stake, but you can still expect a few of them to stake each day on average. And each time one of your 3's stakes, it is only making 3+1 CLAMs inactive for 500 blocks, whereas when one of your 30's stakes, it is making 30+1 CLAMs inactive for 500 blocks, which is clearly less efficient from a stake-as-much-as-you-can perspective.

Any of those are fine, it doesn't really matter. The main thing is just not to have one huge output.

I recently noticed that over 50% of the Just-Dice hot wallet was unavailable for withdrawal. Upon investigation I saw this massive stake transaction. A large deposit had staked before I got a chance to split it up. It split as it staked, but by then it's too late - all the outputs are unavailable until they get 500 confirmations.

[zazarb]

Congratulations to The Great CLAM on reaching the one million blocks milestone!

these issues haunts me as well dooglus  mention about ~30 clam input, but I think This applies only to very long-term,
because first reward you have to wait very long-  40-50 day. (in case 10-15 input , even 3-4 month)

If you only have 30 CLAMs, you will be waiting an average of 30 days to stake no matter how you split them. If you have 3000 CLAMs and split them into 100 piles of 30, each of the piles will be waiting an average 30 days to stake, but one of them will get lucky and stake early. You can expect a few of them to stake each day on average. If instead you split them into 1000 piles of 3, each will be waiting about a year to stake, but you can still expect a few of them to stake each day on average. And each time one of your 3's stakes, it is only making 3+1 CLAMs inactive for 500 blocks, whereas when one of your 30's stakes, it is making 30+1 CLAMs inactive for 500 blocks, which is clearly less efficient from a stake-as-much-as-you-can perspective.

I know it is, in theory, should be, but I practically everything comes out longer, maybe I unlucky , example: recent two my inputs of 141clam, according you theory average waiting time should be ~7 day, but I got reward after 13 day for first, and  for second input of 141clam already 10day without reward.
P.S.
@dooglus 
 maybe you have information about clam wallet in  yobit exchange ? I waiting withdraw already week, with status - "Transfer from cold storage", and any respond for support.

[SuperClam]

@dooglus 
 maybe you have information about clam wallet in  yobit exchange ? I waiting withdraw already week, with status - "Transfer from cold storage", and any respond for support.

 
 
I have no personal experience with 'yobit', or that exchange's history of being trustworthy or timely with withdrawals. 
If you are having trouble with withdrawals, I would suggest you take every opportunity (even in a different coin) to get your value out. 

[andulolika]

Congratulations to The Great CLAM on reaching the one million blocks milestone!

these issues haunts me as well dooglus  mention about ~30 clam input, but I think This applies only to very long-term,
because first reward you have to wait very long-  40-50 day. (in case 10-15 input , even 3-4 month)

If you only have 30 CLAMs, you will be waiting an average of 30 days to stake no matter how you split them. If you have 3000 CLAMs and split them into 100 piles of 30, each of the piles will be waiting an average 30 days to stake, but one of them will get lucky and stake early. You can expect a few of them to stake each day on average. If instead you split them into 1000 piles of 3, each will be waiting about a year to stake, but you can still expect a few of them to stake each day on average. And each time one of your 3's stakes, it is only making 3+1 CLAMs inactive for 500 blocks, whereas when one of your 30's stakes, it is making 30+1 CLAMs inactive for 500 blocks, which is clearly less efficient from a stake-as-much-as-you-can perspective.

I know it is, in theory, should be, but I practically everything comes out longer, maybe I unlucky , example: recent two my inputs of 141clam, according you theory average waiting time should be ~7 day, but I got reward after 13 day for first, and  for second input of 141clam already 10day without reward.
P.S.
@dooglus 
 maybe you have information about clam wallet in  yobit exchange ? I waiting withdraw already week, with status - "Transfer from cold storage", and any respond for support.

Yobit is a really skeetchy exchange, i believe they involved in most of the ico scams that occur on there, i dont think they would mess with an user when they have small cuts from the site. Yet i seen that lately there is a bunch of users with the same problem, maybe they scared a bit of their IOC if they cannot cover it.

[BayAreaCoins]

maybe you have information about clam wallet in  yobit exchange ? I waiting withdraw already week, with status - "Transfer from cold storage", and any respond for support.

They bought a ton of advertising just now.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1472756.msg14939029#msg14939029

I'm sure if you ask them or PM that they'd fix your withdraw.

Maybe they are just bold ass scammers.

[dooglus]

according you theory average waiting time should be ~7 day, but I got reward after 13 day for first, and  for second input of 141clam already 10day without reward.

Yes, the key word here is 'average'. Each stake can take more or less time to actually happen; it's pretty much random, since whether you stake or not is based on the size of the hash of a bunch of stuff.

maybe you have information about clam wallet in  yobit exchange ?

I don't, sorry. I personally only really use poloniex if I want to buy or sell CLAMs. It's the biggest market, usually has a decently narrow spread, reasonably low fees, and I have never had problems trusting them with up to 50 BTC or so in my balance. I did play about with one of the other exchanges when they first added CLAM but I didn't like the site felt, or the lack of liquidity in its market so I went back to poloniex.

I can also recommend arranging direct trades in the just-dice chat tab. You can usually find somebody willing to trade CLAM for BTC, and there's a free built in automated escrow system (type /escrow there for details).

[dooglus]

I found the following interesting, and thought I'd share it here:

I came across a new paper on the subject of Bitcoin address clustering - the practice of studying transactions on the blockchain to identify which groups of addresses belong to which wallets:

I noticed this diagram of the largest address clusters:



I hadn't heard of betvip.com before the CLAM whale digger surfaced, but from the little research I did, it appears that he was digging mostly from that cluster.

The diagram shows just how many more whale diggers there could be. There are many more the same size or bigger. And then there are LTC and DOGE clusters too, not shown here.

Edit: Of course, many of these clusters could have been mostly empty addresses on the CLAM snapshot date, and so wouldn't be candidates for digging.

[zazarb]

maybe you have information about clam wallet in  yobit exchange ? I waiting withdraw already week, with status - "Transfer from cold storage", and any respond for support.

They bought a ton of advertising just now.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1472756.msg14939029#msg14939029

I'm sure if you ask them or PM that they'd fix your withdraw.

Maybe they are just bold ass scammers.

Yes, I asked him in second day, he replied only today(after 5 day and 3th my pm)after my request cancelled, I successful withdraw
in small portion 20-50clam.

maybe you have information about clam wallet in  yobit exchange ?

I don't, sorry. I personally only really use poloniex if I want to buy or sell CLAMs. It's the biggest market, usually has a decently narrow spread, reasonably low fees, and I have never had problems trusting them with up to 50 BTC or so in my balance. I did play about with one of the other exchanges when they first added CLAM but I didn't like the site felt, or the lack of liquidity in its market so I went back to poloniex.

I can also recommend arranging direct trades in the just-dice chat tab. You can usually find somebody willing to trade CLAM for BTC, and there's a free built in automated escrow system (type /escrow there for details).

poloniex is my primary exchange also, just sometimes I "hunted" cheapest coin in exchange with low trade volume.

[BayAreaCoins]

I found the following interesting, and thought I'd share it here:

I came across a new paper on the subject of Bitcoin address clustering - the practice of studying transactions on the blockchain to identify which groups of addresses belong to which wallets:

I noticed this diagram of the largest address clusters:



I hadn't heard of betvip.com before the CLAM whale digger surfaced, but from the little research I did, it appears that he was digging mostly from that cluster.

The diagram shows just how many more whale diggers there could be. There are many more the same size or bigger. And then there are LTC and DOGE clusters too, not shown here.

Edit: Of course, many of these clusters could have been mostly empty addresses on the CLAM snapshot date, and so wouldn't be candidates for digging.

I wonder which big bubble Just-Dice was.

It would have to be one of the bigger bubbles I'd assume...

[dooglus]

I wonder which big bubble Just-Dice was.

It would have to be one of the bigger bubbles I'd assume...

I was wondering that too, but Just-Dice clusters were easy to identify, and they say all the gambling clusters are purple.

Weird that 999dice got onto the chart and JD didn't!

[SuperClam]

I wonder which big bubble Just-Dice was.

It would have to be one of the bigger bubbles I'd assume...

I was wondering that too, but Just-Dice clusters were easy to identify, and they say all the gambling clusters are purple.

Weird that 999dice got onto the chart and JD didn't!

The gray vertices are not immediately indentifiable... yadda yadda.

 
 
I expect?

[Johnny00]

Anyone know why the crash in price?

[ostrogoto2012]

Anyone know why the crash in price?

i think lot people sell clams to buy waves! it is only my opinion...

[andulolika]

Anyone know why the crash in price?

i think lot people sell clams to buy waves! it is only my opinion...

Delusional trying to hype.

Anyone know why the crash in price?

The gambl0rs that won at jd and dumped.

[Johnny00]

Thanks. So still has value?