GAW ZenCloud ZenPool Hashlet - does it really exist? ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :-)

[rdyoung]

Its just a ponzi scam, until they can prove otherwise.

You can only prove its a ponzi after it implodes. Until it stops paying, everyone who has drank the coolaid will keep paying in because they keep getting paid. On that note, people please keep paying in, the longer I can receive my "mining" income the better.

right. so how could someone prove something not being a ponzi scheme ? by not imploding? in a fixed period of time?

I understand that there's a ton of things that GAW is not telling, but I don't know if there's any proof of it being a ponzi scheme.
I have about 130Mhs in zen, so I'm interested in seeing evidence if there is any, but so far there's none, just a lot of unhappy people for no good reason

You know it's pointless. First they wanted a data center picture, they got it and decided they want a proof of mining too and if this proof is not given let's scream ponzi!

Speaking of, where is that data center location data you were going to post yesterday?

Posted them in that thread. Weren't you following it? Should still be there.

Hey Guys,
I've been searching for a long while and questioned on a few ways GAW.
But I never got an answer for my to little questions:
1. Will I be able to sell my hashlet at any time I not longer would own it (e.g.like CEX.io)
2. Is it a possible risk that one day my hashlet is negative profitable and so I would have to pay more maintenance/electricity fee than it generates BTC...

...I will not invest anything without an answer on this questions and I think other people think also like me.
I also asked over Twitter and they marked me as a spammer.
Just a mistake?
 
I'm sceptic...

Hi
Yes people are trading hashlets. There's a nice thread here by a guy who mined with hashlets and I think recently sold them after taking the profits.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=743152.msg8583756#msg8583756

According to GAW you will never have negative ROI, the maintenance costs will be reduced to keep the miners profitable.

then what about the ppl on multihashlet that went neg. btc cause of maintenance costs took more then it paid out? and saying you will never have a neg. roi is easy as long as they pay something...could be 1 satoshi that is still considered positive roi might take a few thousand years to get but still

I am wondering if those people are either confused or making it up. I did the math on one of my accounts and I am actually being charged 5c/day/mhs. So perhaps they are accounting for that as btc has dropped and is holding lower than it was when they launched them.

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[rdyoung]

really confused...

Just because someone is invested heavily doesn't mean they can't question it. Those that are more heavily invested should be the ones asking the questions we have been asking.

[suchmoon]

really confused...

https://i.imgur.com/3TwlZ9Y.png

Yeah, that's a good one. Someone's messing around with names. That user was called "rdyoung1" a couple of hours ago. Prior to that it was "GAWceo". Judging by maturity level it's probably Volder The Hammer.

http://i.snag.gy/69aa6.jpg

[suchmoon]

Just because someone is invested heavily doesn't mean they can't question it. Those that are more heavily invested should be the ones asking the questions we have been asking.

I'm invested, just not that heavily

I have about a BTC's worth of hashlets (well now it's 2.5 BTC I guess) and some "legacy" BW's.

[rdyoung]

really confused...

https://i.imgur.com/3TwlZ9Y.png

Yeah, that's a good one. Someone's messing around with names. That user was called "rdyoung1" a couple of hours ago. Prior to that it was "GAWceo". Judging by maturity level it's probably Volder The Hammer.

http://i.snag.gy/69aa6.jpg

I really hope that mr banhammer doesn't have that level of access to zens servers.

[rdyoung]

Just because someone is invested heavily doesn't mean they can't question it. Those that are more heavily invested should be the ones asking the questions we have been asking.

I'm invested, just not that heavily

I have about a BTC's worth of hashlets (well now it's 2.5 BTC I guess) and some "legacy" BW's.

Well, my point still stands. Those such as Volder The hammer should be asking questions more forcefully then we are. I would even trust a couple of members from 2 different parts of the world saying that they have talked/visited josh/gaw and could confirm the topsecret information, but even that isn't happening.

[suchmoon]

Just because someone is invested heavily doesn't mean they can't question it. Those that are more heavily invested should be the ones asking the questions we have been asking.

I'm invested, just not that heavily

I have about a BTC's worth of hashlets (well now it's 2.5 BTC I guess) and some "legacy" BW's.

Well, my point still stands. Those such as Volder The hammer should be asking questions more forcefully then we are. I would even trust a couple of members from 2 different parts of the world saying that they have talked/visited josh/gaw and could confirm the topsecret information, but even that isn't happening.

What, are you trying to say you don't trust volder, who is privy to all sorts of GAW "inside" info?  

Seriously, you've seen in this thread and elsewhere many argue "as long as it pays - who cares". It looks like this sentiment is shared by some individuals with deep pockets or good credit lines. Some are even trying to borrow on BTCjam to buy hashlets. That to me seems more in the realm of unquestioning belief and/or very high risk tolerance, not the other way round.

[verloren]

really confused...

https://i.imgur.com/3TwlZ9Y.png

Yeah, that's a good one. Someone's messing around with names. That user was called "rdyoung1" a couple of hours ago. Prior to that it was "GAWceo". Judging by maturity level it's probably Volder The Hammer.

http://i.snag.gy/69aa6.jpg

I really hope that mr banhammer doesn't have that level of access to zens servers.

Don't even have to. You can change the display name viewable to others via the ZenCloud profile. If I wanted to, I could put up some random name

[rdyoung]

really confused...

https://i.imgur.com/3TwlZ9Y.png

Yeah, that's a good one. Someone's messing around with names. That user was called "rdyoung1" a couple of hours ago. Prior to that it was "GAWceo". Judging by maturity level it's probably Volder The Hammer.

http://i.snag.gy/69aa6.jpg

I really hope that mr banhammer doesn't have that level of access to zens servers.

Don't even have to. You can change the display name viewable to others via the ZenCloud profile. If I wanted to, I could put up some random name

If volder or someone else really did change their name to reflect as a variant of my username, I guess I really got under someones skin. I can sleep easy tonight, my job is done.

[SDRebel]

So...after all these discussions....anyone has any real proof that GAW is a fraud?
Secretive? Sure
Slow customer service and even bad at handling some issues? You bet
They have shipped a lot of used miners as new? Yes, and they dont seem to fix it, so part of the bad customer service
Fraud? I dont think so as I'm yet to see any proof of that

I'm not one of those "dont care as long as it pays"
But I'm a customer with a critical mind and open to inovative ideas
Full disclosure:
I own about 130Mh of converted Haslets and owned two gaw-branded furys

[rdyoung]

So...after all these discussions....anyone has any real proof that GAW is a fraud?
Secretive? Sure
Slow customer service and even bad at handling some issues? You bet
They have shipped a lot of used miners as new? Yes, and they dont seem to fix it, so part of the bad customer service
Fraud? I dont think so as I'm yet to see any proof of that

I'm not one of those "dont care as long as it pays"
But I'm a customer with a critical mind and open to inovative ideas
Full disclosure:
I own about 130Mh of converted Haslets and owned two gaw-branded furys

I posted earlier in the thread that I am done hashing this out. Only time will tell now what is what. I read somewhere on here or hashtalk that in a couple of weeks we are supposedly going to have the ability to point our prime hashlets at whatever pool we desire, this is one thing that if happens will assure me that it is legit.

I have been in contact with josh and he gave me the same answers he gave someone else in an email, he did give me a bit more, and he asked me not to share what he told me as he may have given out more than he was supposed to, NDAs supposedly.

NOTE: The above does not mean I don't still have questions, considering the answers I got are the best I am going to get for now, I am standing down.
I never thought they were an intentional outright ponzi, I had simple questions regarding income for zenpool and when I got a wall of misinformation from hashtalk and then banned by "the hammer" it gave me reason to question even more.

[rdyoung]

So...after all these discussions....anyone has any real proof that GAW is a fraud?
Secretive? Sure
Slow customer service and even bad at handling some issues? You bet
They have shipped a lot of used miners as new? Yes, and they dont seem to fix it, so part of the bad customer service
Fraud? I dont think so as I'm yet to see any proof of that

I'm not one of those "dont care as long as it pays"
But I'm a customer with a critical mind and open to inovative ideas
Full disclosure:
I own about 130Mh of converted Haslets and owned two gaw-branded furys

I posted earlier in the thread that I am done hashing this out. Only time will tell now what is what. I read somewhere on here or hashtalk that in a couple of weeks we are supposedly going to have the ability to point our prime hashlets at whatever pool we desire, this is one thing that if happens will assure me that it is legit.

I have been in contact with josh and he gave me the same answers he gave someone else in an email, he did give me a bit more, and he asked me not to share what he told me as he may have given out more than he was supposed to, NDAs supposedly.

NOTE: The above does not mean I don't still have questions, considering the answers I got are the best I am going to get for now, I am standing down.
I never thought they were an intentional outright ponzi, I had simple questions regarding income for zenpool and when I got a wall of misinformation from hashtalk and then banned by "the hammer" it gave me reason to question even more.

wow you must have handled josh better then me...lol when he did chat with me on hashtalk i got a whole 1 reply outta him...and it was basically, if you don't like us, why do you follow us around? if i don't like a company, i stay away from it...to which i replied 2 paragraphs long and no response and maybe he banned me again? but i was banned shortly after that so idk oh well least your getting some info outta him...and if that point to any pool thing happens, i'll believe it when i see it...i highly doubt they have all that hash power to fulfill all their hashlets...so i think its just blowing smoke....remember they promised that awhile back...or at least i think eric promised it and then gaw bought'em out...idk things happen to fast

and yes i agree with ya that we are going in circles and feeding the gaw loving trolls in this thread and its getting boring

The difference is I know how to ask questions without leading people to an answer they think I want.
I don't remember, and I am not going to find, but whoever sent him an email basically gave him the answers in the questions.

I simply asked where does the income for zenpool come from, please provide as detailed a response as you can.
I asked him a few other questions as well, and got even more out of him. Even though he asked me not to divulge, in a few weeks or a month if we don't see any movement forward on the capabilities of the hashlets and more info that gives us confidence that this isn't all smoke and mirrors I will share what he told me.

And by the by, I am still banned from hashtalk. I am going to give it a couple more days and if its not lifted when its supposed to be, I will ask josh to look into it.

Something relevant I can share.

If this is josh... Can you explain why the attitude I got from the forum before I was banned was that I just had to trust in gaw and that I wasn't entitled to any answers?

Maybe you could also answer why he banned me for a comment that I would have used when I was 5, and it was very polite considering the wall of NO information I was battling along with people answering a question I didn't ask

Previously, I did not approve, or was notified before a banning took place. There have been a number of banns that have been made that I do not agree with. In fact, I reversed a few just a few days ago. I have since then changed this and required that those go through me so this does not happen.

I have no issue with questions being asked in a responsible and respectful way.

What I do have a issue with is answering questions to those that are not actually looking for an answer. Rather, they are looking to debate/argue. I have no interest in arguing.

Having said that, if your actually looking for an answer, fire away.

[suchmoon]

So...after all these discussions....anyone has any real proof that GAW is a fraud?
Secretive? Sure
Slow customer service and even bad at handling some issues? You bet
They have shipped a lot of used miners as new? Yes, and they dont seem to fix it, so part of the bad customer service
Fraud? I dont think so as I'm yet to see any proof of that

I'm not one of those "dont care as long as it pays"
But I'm a customer with a critical mind and open to inovative ideas
Full disclosure:
I own about 130Mh of converted Haslets and owned two gaw-branded furys

Despite some loud individuals around here I think most rational observers were mainly concerned with the lack of transparency than it being an outright fraud.

I think what's becoming clear now is that GAW's own presentation/marketing of the hashlet has changed significantly from when it was first announced. Instead of "proprietary hardware" we now have "virtual software", no outside pools, no more ZenPool stats, no more guaranteed profitability or ROI. There is a chance or at least a hope than one or more similar shifts will occur in the future and eventually we will have a true picture of what it really is. Right now, as has already been mentioned, there isn't much to speculate on anymore without any new information.

[alani123]

Despite some loud individuals around here I think most rational observers were mainly concerned with the lack of transparency than it being an outright fraud.

I think what's becoming clear now is that GAW's own presentation/marketing of the hashlet has changed significantly from when it was first announced. Instead of "proprietary hardware" we now have "virtual software", no outside pools, no more ZenPool stats, no more guaranteed profitability or ROI. There is a chance or at least a hope than one or more similar shifts will occur in the future and eventually we will have a true picture of what it really is. Right now, as has already been mentioned, there isn't much to speculate on anymore without any new information.

I agree, there's a total lack of transparency. But since I haven't been following this thoroughly, would you mind mentioning where you saw something that makes you believe they now say it's just virtual software? I believe that they're still putting efforts to make people believe this is real. And actually, they claim to be using outside pools, at least they give people the ability to choose between pre-existing pools other than zenpool.

[suchmoon]

Despite some loud individuals around here I think most rational observers were mainly concerned with the lack of transparency than it being an outright fraud.

I think what's becoming clear now is that GAW's own presentation/marketing of the hashlet has changed significantly from when it was first announced. Instead of "proprietary hardware" we now have "virtual software", no outside pools, no more ZenPool stats, no more guaranteed profitability or ROI. There is a chance or at least a hope than one or more similar shifts will occur in the future and eventually we will have a true picture of what it really is. Right now, as has already been mentioned, there isn't much to speculate on anymore without any new information.

I agree, there's a total lack of transparency. But since I haven't been following this thoroughly, would you mind mentioning where you saw something that makes you believe they now say it's just virtual software? I believe that they're still putting efforts to make people believe this is real. And actually, they claim to be using outside pools, at least they give people the ability to choose between pre-existing pools other than zenpool.

ZenMiner TOS:

Has anyone noticed that with logging in you agree to the "new" TOS?

https://zenminer.com/cloud/terms.html

With things like this:

You understand that Hashlets are virtual service units related to mining services, but are not mining hardware. Hashlets earnings depend on the pool chosen and Payouts reflect respective Pool Payouts. Selecting a Pool does not imply physically or electronically mining at the selected Pool. Rather, selecting a Pool determines a Payout corresponding to a calculation based on the selected Pool’s payout (based on, for example, real-time Megahash/second/day calculations). A Hashlet is virtual software. You will receive Payouts according to the Pool with with the Hashlet is associated. You expressly understand the the Company’s sole obligation to You is to Provide a Payout based on the Pool you choose. It may take 24-48 hours for your Hashlet to appear on Your Portal. Company reserves the right to refund You, and terminate services, at any time and for any reason. All sales are final.

[MOB]

Despite some loud individuals around here I think most rational observers were mainly concerned with the lack of transparency than it being an outright fraud.

I think what's becoming clear now is that GAW's own presentation/marketing of the hashlet has changed significantly from when it was first announced. Instead of "proprietary hardware" we now have "virtual software", no outside pools, no more ZenPool stats, no more guaranteed profitability or ROI. There is a chance or at least a hope than one or more similar shifts will occur in the future and eventually we will have a true picture of what it really is. Right now, as has already been mentioned, there isn't much to speculate on anymore without any new information.

I agree, there's a total lack of transparency. But since I haven't been following this thoroughly, would you mind mentioning where you saw something that makes you believe they now say it's just virtual software? I believe that they're still putting efforts to make people believe this is real. And actually, they claim to be using outside pools, at least they give people the ability to choose between pre-existing pools other than zenpool.

This has been hashed out (not supposed to be a pun) so much that even the terms of service for Zenpool lay out that Hashlets are virtual items that will never mine an outside pool, but only track other pool's payouts.

My main problem at this point is this seems to be an unregistered security that was originally marketed as mining hardware.  They should have just created a fund on Havelock.

edit: Suchmoon beat me to it

edit #2: If unclear, selling unregistered securities masquerading as something else is a serious offense.  Depending on what state Josh would be tried in, that is about 1-4 years of prison time and two separate felonies, plus some fines.

You can be happy "so long as the payouts come through," but the government is a bit less happy.

[rdyoung]

Despite some loud individuals around here I think most rational observers were mainly concerned with the lack of transparency than it being an outright fraud.

I think what's becoming clear now is that GAW's own presentation/marketing of the hashlet has changed significantly from when it was first announced. Instead of "proprietary hardware" we now have "virtual software", no outside pools, no more ZenPool stats, no more guaranteed profitability or ROI. There is a chance or at least a hope than one or more similar shifts will occur in the future and eventually we will have a true picture of what it really is. Right now, as has already been mentioned, there isn't much to speculate on anymore without any new information.

I agree, there's a total lack of transparency. But since I haven't been following this thoroughly, would you mind mentioning where you saw something that makes you believe they now say it's just virtual software? I believe that they're still putting efforts to make people believe this is real. And actually, they claim to be using outside pools, at least they give people the ability to choose between pre-existing pools other than zenpool.

This has been hashed out (not supposed to be a pun) so much that even the terms of service for Zenpool lay out that Hashlets are virtual items that will never mine an outside pool, but only track other pool's payouts.

My main problem at this point is this seems to be an unregistered security that was originally marketed as mining hardware.  They should have just created a fund on Havelock.

edit: Suchmoon beat me to it

edit #2: If unclear, selling unregistered securities masquerading as something else is a serious offense.  Depending on what state Josh would be tried in, that is about 1-4 years of prison time and two separate felonies, plus some fines.

You can be happy "so long as the payouts come through," but the government is a bit less happy.

If he indeed has hardware as it looks like he does, then its not securities. Its likely the change in the tos was a legal ass covering measure so that people can't request that they be shipped their hashlet. It also matches what josh told me as to the income sources.

Can we please put this to bed? Only time will tell what will happen. And before anyone asks, NO I did not get bribed by josh. I am just tired of some people here finding new things to moan about. The hashlets are a digital representation of physical hardware, there is no security issue here.

[Flep182]

This has been hashed out (not supposed to be a pun) so much that even the terms of service for Zenpool lay out that Hashlets are virtual items that will never mine an outside pool, but only track other pool's payouts.

That hasn't been said. The TOS states that you can't demand mining at that pool but that they at least will reimburse what you would've mined there if they hadn't in your case. Doesn't say they DON'T mine. Just says they don't have to.
Like rdyoung said, legal reasons.

[I_IZ_CEO]

Rich, Dr. got like 2-3 mh/s to be a good boy, did you get more? He went on a rant 1 day about the the failed ZenControler and had some orbs mining... The next day he had like 3 extra Fury's on cloud....

Its funny how Josh emailed someone with his secret sauce, a someone that got the banhammer from the failed forum, this is too funny.

It seems like they do read what goes on here and read it well, they made changes to the mod status, re-sellers are no longer mods and new mods will be voted in.

Good luck with your 2 free hashlets Rich. (he didn't get them from Josh, Volder gave them to him) :p

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

This has been hashed out (not supposed to be a pun) so much that even the terms of service for Zenpool lay out that Hashlets are virtual items that will never mine an outside pool, but only track other pool's payouts.

That hasn't been said. The TOS states that you can't demand mining at that pool but that they at least will reimburse what you would've mined there if they hadn't in your case. Doesn't say they DON'T mine. Just says they don't have to.
Like rdyoung said, legal reasons.

Of course they don't mine, they have sold as much hashpower as the entire Scrypt network.

Stop being a moron, it's a difficulty derivative. You're not paying for miners.