[~1000 GH/sec] BTC Guild - 0% Fee Pool, LP, SSL, Full Precision, and More

[licutis]

When I first implemented the stat delay, I immediatley changed the pool stats API to show the current round at 1 second with 100 shares.  Within 15 minutes the pool speed increased over 200 GH/sec.  We are still higher now than before I put in that delay.

That 200 GH/sec is likely all the pool hoppers thinking you found a block as your API reports that condition. So by your data hoppers account for about 8% of your pools peek hash rate. Report a round with a few hours and 1563027+ shares and those 200 GH/sec will prob disappear. I am not convinced that stat delay will solve the issue as there is already a published method to deal with deepbit's delay.

[1713882401]

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[1713882401]

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[bodhipraxis]

Within 15 minutes the pool speed increased over 200 GH/sec.

So there's at least 200ghash/s worth of pool hopping power right now. Interesting!

yes, someone in my bldg just PM'd me and they have 7 Gh/s -- they put on BTCGuild. Oh wait -- there's another one - that must be the Russian on the 24th floor -- he has 3 cabinets of servers with Firestream cards used to demo for the AMD Developer conference most recently. He is outside my "group" -- but has probl. 42-44 GH/s. I know that he is a "BTCGuild" primary for sure, but he also "optimizes" (his euphemism). I know that I am probably responsible for convincing him to come back to BTCGuild after the DDos most recent.

I see your changes, Eleuthria.
I have also done a scan through the arguments by pool members on forum.bitcoin.org/--> I can see the earnestness of the debate and its validity.
e.g.
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=7760.msg363429;topicseen#msg363429 etc. etc

Well, it sure is interesting that you have 205 Gh/s higher right now...

[bodhipraxis]

When I first implemented the stat delay, I immediatley changed the pool stats API to show the current round at 1 second with 100 shares.  Within 15 minutes the pool speed increased over 200 GH/sec.  We are still higher now than before I put in that delay.

That 200 GH/sec is likely all the pool hoppers thinking you found a block as your API reports that condition. So by your data hoppers account for about 8% of your pools peek hash rate. Report a round with a few hours and 1563027+ shares and those 200 GH/sec will prob disappear. I am not convinced that stat delay will solve the issue as there is already a published method to deal with deepbit's delay.

Yeah, my friend on the 24th floor with the 44 Gh/s alerted me to that a minute ago. He apparently has already compensated for Eleuthria's changes by trapping the share submissions of everyone who is mining on his network and doing some deep major magic-fu that way over my head. Sh*t.

Eleuthria, I don't think your stat delay is going to make much difference to the real "pool-hoppers." I will keep my lowly personal 1.2 GH/s pointed at you merely out of loyalty and a hope that pool members continue to debate this here.

I will ask the bigger fish that are around me if they would provide some of their "stat delay compensation" code for me to post here. (doubt it, but worth a try).

I am not yet convinced by the math arguments on either side. Right now, I'm depressed.

[ellipsis]

I am not convinced that stat delay will solve the issue as there is already a published method to deal with deepbit's delay.

There's probably also one for BTC Guild's.

[eleuthria]

Lets see, two days ago:

"I'd join BTC Guild but pool hopping will hurt my return"
"I left BTC Guild because pool hoppers are walking off with rewards that I should have earned."
-Debate ensues, eventually someone sends me a complete breakdown of exactly what pool hopping can do for their return and shows how it HURTS LEGIT MEMBERS-

Now: 1 hour delay added
"Pool hopping is just a myth!"
"OMG WTF YOU'RE HIDING OUR STATS FOR AN HOUR I'M LEAVING"


Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

For those leaving, think about this one simple fact:  Legit users returns ARE reduced by pool hoppers.  MY RETURNS are increased because of the speed fluctuations pool hoppers bring at the start of each round.  I just reduced my income to help legit users.

[bodhipraxis]

UH -YO. Eleuthria.

BUMP.

I have made clear 4 times that my own personal machines have remained pointed at the pool.

Also, that in talking the last two hours with data center people around me who are mining, there was quite a bit of confusion about your new moves.

And finally, an anecdotal relation about the fact that I don't think it makes much difference that you have delayed your stats, for the relatively small group of sysadmins who are directing most of the so-called "hopping." I happen to be acquainted with someone who I think may be one of those.. and he sees things a bit differently, as he is playing on a quantitatively bigger field than most of us are. By the block stats, my own machines put me in the 500s...the people in the top 100 may have a different outlook, you think?

[bodhipraxis]

For those leaving, think about this one simple fact:  Legit users returns ARE reduced by pool hoppers.  MY RETURNS are increased because of the speed fluctuations pool hoppers bring at the start of each round.  I just reduced my income to help legit users.

Well, Tycho also gives advice that (in theory) will reduce his income. That's part of the "civic" aspect of being the dude at the top of the #1 or #2 pool. You know better than anyone of us how many thousands of hours you have worked to get this pool up, right? Aren't you making out with some nice coin, Eleuthria?

[ellipsis]

Lets see, two days ago:

"I'd join BTC Guild but pool hopping will hurt my return"
-Debate ensues, eventually someone sends me a complete breakdown of exactly what pool hopping can do for their return and shows how it HURTS LEGIT MEMBERS-

Now: 1 hour delay added
"OMG WTF YOU'RE HIDING OUR STATS FOR AN HOUR I'M LEAVING"


Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

For those leaving, think about this one simple fact:  Legit users returns ARE reduced by pool hoppers.  MY RETURNS are increased because of the speed fluctuations pool hoppers bring at the start of each round.  I just reduced my income to help legit users.

Pool hopping is not a *problem*. It is a condition of the system. If you absolutely insist on your current compensation method, that is how it works. You are dealing with other people's processing power, and it is up to them to use as they see fit. I don't see a problem with your compensation method, and I don't see a problem with pool hopping. I can see how people with small dicks want their 0.0001 BTC on the BTC back, but it's really inconsequential. Transparency is more important, but the squeaky wheel gets the grease, right?

I don't pool hop, but I do use the API to tell me whether or not it is even worth it for my few miners dedicated to mining *solely* with BTC Guild to bother. I don't like monitoring this shit or threads with kiddies bitching about pool hoppers "stealing" their money. I write programs for that. You probably took a good thing and made it worse, so maybe I'll write new programs or just purely solo mine and make the same amount. I don't even donate, but I planned to at some point. If the pool is even up, if the API even works, and if BTC Guild even is what it used to be, maybe I will soon reach that point. The sky is falling! Not really, but WTF? "Legit" users can pool hop. In fact, it's in everyone's interest that everyone pool hop. If the "vulnerability" is essentially written into the system, you would be a moron, or too lazy, to *not* pool hop. If everyone did it, there would be no benefit. Those who don't will complain all of the way to the proverbial grave. Here's some kleenex, pussies.

Now, maybe eleuthria can make more changes and fuck up the pool a little more and everyone will be happy.

Well, Tycho also gives advice that (in theory) will reduce his income. That's part of the "civic" aspect of being the dude at the top of the #1 or #2 pool. You know better than anyone of us how many thousands of hours you have worked to get this pool up, right? Aren't you making out with some nice coin, Eleuthria?

Thousands? He was working 40 hours/week for a year on this?

[bodhipraxis]

Lets see, two days ago:

"I'd join BTC Guild but pool hopping will hurt my return"
-Debate ensues, eventually someone sends me a complete breakdown of exactly what pool hopping can do for their return and shows how it HURTS LEGIT MEMBERS-

Now: 1 hour delay added
"OMG WTF YOU'RE HIDING OUR STATS FOR AN HOUR I'M LEAVING"


Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

For those leaving, think about this one simple fact:  Legit users returns ARE reduced by pool hoppers.  MY RETURNS are increased because of the speed fluctuations pool hoppers bring at the start of each round.  I just reduced my income to help legit users.

Pool hopping is not a *problem*. It is a condition of the system. If you absolutely insist on your current compensation method, that is how it works. You are dealing with other people's processing power, and it is up to them to use as they see fit. I don't see a problem with your compensation method, and I don't see a problem with pool hopping. I can see how people with small dicks want their 0.0001 BTC on the BTC back, but it's really inconsequential. Transparency is more important, but the squeaky wheel gets the grease, right?

I don't pool hop, but I do use the API to tell me whether or not it is even worth it for my few miners dedicated to mining *solely* with BTC Guild to bother. I don't like monitoring this shit or threads with kiddies bitching about pool hoppers "stealing" their money. I write programs for that. You probably took a good thing and made it worse, so maybe I'll write new programs or just purely solo mine and make the same amount. I don't even donate, but I planned to at some point. If the pool is even up, if the API even works, and if BTC Guild even is what it used to be, maybe I will soon reach that point. The sky is falling! Not really, but WTF? "Legit" users can pool hop. In fact, it's in everyone's interest that everyone pool hop. If the "vulnerability" is essentially written into the system, you would be a moron, or too lazy, to *not* pool hop. If everyone did it, there would be no benefit. Those who don't will complain all of the way to the proverbial grave. Here's some kleenex, pussies.

Now, maybe eleuthria can make more changes and fuck up the pool a little more and everyone will be happy.

Well, Tycho also gives advice that (in theory) will reduce his income. That's part of the "civic" aspect of being the dude at the top of the #1 or #2 pool. You know better than anyone of us how many thousands of hours you have worked to get this pool up, right? Aren't you making out with some nice coin, Eleuthria?

Thousands? He was working 40 hours/week for a year on this?

uh - I thnk that was tongue in cheek, man.

[eleuthria]

For those leaving, think about this one simple fact:  Legit users returns ARE reduced by pool hoppers.  MY RETURNS are increased because of the speed fluctuations pool hoppers bring at the start of each round.  I just reduced my income to help legit users.

Well, Tycho also gives advice that (in theory) will reduce his income. That's part of the "civic" aspect of being the dude at the top of the #1 or #2 pool. You know better than anyone of us how many thousands of hours you have worked to get this pool up, right? Aren't you making out with some nice coin, Eleuthria?

If 580 BTC over the course of two months and a week is nice coin, then yes.  As of right now my earnings after expenses are significantly less than minimum wage, but the consolidation of servers into significantly more powerful loadbalanced multi-servers will hopefully at least make it worth my time.

For those bad with math:  679 in donations + 187 in transaction fees - 283 paid on invalids.  Doesn't include the fact that I've been paying transaction fees for member payouts since the DDoS to help payouts go faster while we recover from the downtime.

[bodhipraxis]

so folks - who here is in favor of restored stats for donators?

wait a minute -- where are those donations going to?

 

[bodhipraxis]

For those leaving, think about this one simple fact:  Legit users returns ARE reduced by pool hoppers.  MY RETURNS are increased because of the speed fluctuations pool hoppers bring at the start of each round.  I just reduced my income to help legit users.

Well, Tycho also gives advice that (in theory) will reduce his income. That's part of the "civic" aspect of being the dude at the top of the #1 or #2 pool. You know better than anyone of us how many thousands of hours you have worked to get this pool up, right? Aren't you making out with some nice coin, Eleuthria?

If 580 BTC over the course of two months and a week is nice coin, then yes.  As of right now my earnings after expenses are significantly less than minimum wage, but the consolidation of servers into significantly more powerful loadbalanced multi-servers will hopefully at least make it worth my time.

hmm - jeez i think my earnings after expenses aren't that great either. keeping track of pool's up and downs is certainly one of my expenses (as is true for most people here)

[sirky]

It sounds like the pool hoppers are butt hurt.

There are other pools out there if you don't like it. I applaud the change personally,  and my measly 3.5 GHash/sec will be back after this weekend (which I said I would put towards simplecoin.us).

[eleuthria]

Worker stats reset share/stales functionality has been restored.  Next up:  Last share time for previous rounds.

[ellipsis]

It sounds like the pool hoppers are butt hurt.

There are other pools out there if you don't like it. I applaud the change personally,  and my measly 3.5 GHash/sec will be back after this weekend (which I said I would put towards simplecoin.us).

EEF YEW DUN LAHK DIS CUNTRY, WILLL GIT AHTT!

[sirky]

Unlike America, BTCGuild is not a Democracy

[eleuthria]

Unlike America, BTCGuild is not a Democracy

I'm still tempted to switch to SMPPS, for the sole purpose of seeing what fake/misguided outrage fills this thread .

[flower1024]

I'm still tempted to switch to SMPPS

^^ i like this idea.

but: what about 2.5% donation and invalid blocks?
don't see any possibility to keep this (and this is one of the things i like)

would me make come back

[eleuthria]

I'm still tempted to switch to SMPPS

^^ i like this idea.

but: what about 2.5% donation and invalid blocks?
don't see any possibility to keep this (and this is one of the things i like)

would me make come back

2.5% donators/invalids are still here.  I'm not going to put time into thinking about how it'd work in SMPPS since I don't have any realistic plans on switching .

[bodhipraxis]

Or-- Eleuthria:
you could become truly "the other Deepbit" -- and offer all the methods -- then do as Tycho did today and let newbies know at what point they should change from one to the other (see today's thread at same in forums)

I still think that you should bring back full round stats for people donating over a certain percentage.

oh yeah -- 580 BTC should be seen in terms of its opportunity cost, not just averaged BTC value.

and as for that member who is fond of butts -- tend to your own after you hurt it some more waiting for simplecoin.us to bring you any of the returns of BTCguild. ;-)