[~1000 GH/sec] BTC Guild - 0% Fee Pool, LP, SSL, Full Precision, and More

[Lars]

I just looked over the block statistics, and there seems to be quite a high % of invalid shares in the last couple of hundred blocks. Is this because of the DDOS attacks or is there some other reason for this?

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[eleuthria]

I just looked over the block statistics, and there seems to be quite a high % of invalid shares in the last couple of hundred blocks. Is this because of the DDOS attacks or is there some other reason for this?

We've only had 1 "real" invalid block recently.  The 4 before it were all related to two problems:

1) A bad bitcoind patch that wasn't updating to the newest block and thus we were solving old blocks
2) A bad setting in the load balancer on US West which was causing the load balancer to lock up at long polls (thus stopping our blocks from getting out of the internal network).

Both of the problems have been fixed.

[PcChip]

I've noticed the new poclbm has not had a single idle, while phoenix has them once in a while at the LPs.   Phoenix seems to discard a getwork immediately after finding a share, while poclbm continues and occasionally finds multiple shares in one getwork space.  This not only means poclbm doesn't demand new work as often (helping the server), it also means that it doesn't fire off for new work immediately after an LP if it finds a share early in the getwork.

I've used Phoenix exclusively since I started mining months ago, until very recently when I installed the new cgminer on my three-year-old's computer (since it has auto-load sensing and scales back hashing while he's playing D3D9 Games)

If you're interested in checking your server logs to see how this new miner communicates with your server (whether it's wasteful or efficient), my username is the same as my forum name, and the worker is Brady5770

[muyoso]

as long as their blocks have a fixed delay from a pre known node it shouldn't be a problem.

i don't know if the pool operators could live with only 50 nodes. as far as i know their goal is to spread new blocks as fast and wide as possible (this counts especially for btcguild as elu pays for invalid blocks and looses money if he has an high invalid rate)

i just try.
i will publish my experience to everyony.

my goal is not to pool hop my self. i want to stop it in the long term. but if we want to stop it we have to understand it completely.

i don't like the idea, that a few "high-minded" people are able to cheat the rest.

everybody could cheat; or nobody: thats what i am trying to archive

Why do you consider it cheating?  Playing the system in the most efficient manner isn't cheating.

[fcmatt]

Why do you consider it cheating?  Playing the system in the most efficient manner isn't cheating.

ok. so it is not cheating in the literal sense.

how about pool hoppers are just really annoying.

they hop around hoping to siphon off the cream of short blocks while the regulars hang tough
and solve those long blocks. then when we do finally kill off that long two hour block they come
back hoping to get in on a couple short blocks.

regular miners at a pool want all the cream now and that ticks hoppers off.

[Xephan]

So what do you recommend now? How to use poclbm? I have 5870 at 950/300 400mhash each 36 of them..

I'd recommend pocblm, I kept trying Phoenix because everybody seem to say it's faster but pocblm alway pulled through for me instead. I get about 407~410 MHs on 5870 (which also still works as my primary display card so it tends to be less effective) at around 930/310 can't check right now but definitely lower clocks.

[sharky112065]

as long as their blocks have a fixed delay from a pre known node it shouldn't be a problem.

i don't know if the pool operators could live with only 50 nodes. as far as i know their goal is to spread new blocks as fast and wide as possible (this counts especially for btcguild as elu pays for invalid blocks and looses money if he has an high invalid rate)

i just try.
i will publish my experience to everyony.

my goal is not to pool hop my self. i want to stop it in the long term. but if we want to stop it we have to understand it completely.

i don't like the idea, that a few "high-minded" people are able to cheat the rest.

everybody could cheat; or nobody: thats what i am trying to archive

Why do you consider it cheating?  Playing the system in the most efficient manner isn't cheating.

It's not cheating. It's stealing. If you pool hop you are stealing from the people who use the pool in the intended way.

[Xephan]

Why do you consider it cheating?  Playing the system in the most efficient manner isn't cheating.

It's not cheating. It's stealing. If you pool hop you are stealing from the people who use the pool in the intended way.

It's not going to convince those who cheat/steal. It's just like in gaming, the ones who will take advantage of exploits/bugs or kill steal will always consider it being efficient/effective at winning and that if the action isn't allowed, the game wouldn't had let them.

So the only way to convince them, is to change the game rules, e.g. delayed stats, changing allocation based on contribution period, or doing constant payout per share etc.

[FuzzyCoins]

... any chance on adding the ability to set a local timezone for displaying times?  apparently I cannot subtract 5 hours in my head...  or is it 4 lol

Local timezones would be nice. Displaying the current time in UTC on the block statistics page wouldn't be as nice, but it would be easy... (and helpful)

[ellipsis]

It's not cheating. It's stealing. If you pool hop you are stealing from the people who use the pool in the intended way.

Use this as a learning experience. A sense of entitlement does not actually entitle you to anything. Life in the real world isn't much different than this, so learn quickly. Now, if you actually understood what stealing was, you would know that hoppers are being paid their fair share and those who don't hop are being paid their fair share. You may not think it's fair, but the specifications for the compensation method state that it is. Nobody is depriving anyone of what is rightfully theirs. Maybe it's just that you aren't very good at this game and are annoyed that you didn't find out how to play better than some other kids on the block first, so you're hiding behind a slightly twisted morality instead of just doing a little math.

The intended way to use this pool goes like this: voluntarily contribute your processing power in units called shares and receive proportional payment for them. Hopping is built into it because the compensation method is broken, according to you. You just don't like the pool rules, are too territorial, and have an overactive pack mentality. Puberty is a bitch. Now, this game is being run more like a casino. The rules are set in place, but the casino makes a few extra rules on top of those, targeting a small class of winners (i.e., persecution), to "level the playing field" for the dummies and those just out to "have some fun". Since some people can count cards, they gets their fingers broken. This is like kind of like delayed stats. Everyone pays because the rules are bad and those who are better at the game don't make the casino a nice place for retards. It's a huge step back from a meritocratic system. It will be lovely and enjoyable for everyone when it turns into a *real* slush pool flooded with redneck AOL/geocities types who can't figure out which port on their computer the bitcoins are going to come out of.

[sharky112065]

It's not cheating. It's stealing. If you pool hop you are stealing from the people who use the pool in the intended way.

Use this as a learning experience. A sense of entitlement does not actually entitle you to anything. Life in the real world isn't much different than this, so learn quickly. Now, if you actually understood what stealing was, you would know that hoppers are being paid their fair share and those who don't hop are being paid their fair share. You may not think it's fair, but the specifications for the compensation method state that it is. Nobody is depriving anyone of what is rightfully theirs. Maybe it's just that you aren't very good at this game and are annoyed that you didn't find out how to play better than some other kids on the block first, so you're hiding behind a slightly twisted morality instead of just doing a little math.

The intended way to use this pool goes like this: voluntarily contribute your processing power in units called shares and receive proportional payment for them. Hopping is built into it because the compensation method is broken, according to you. You just don't like the pool rules, are too territorial, and have an overactive pack mentality. Puberty is a bitch. Now, this game is being run more like a casino. The rules are set in place, but the casino makes a few extra rules on top of those, targeting a small class of winners (i.e., persecution), to "level the playing field" for the dummies and those just out to "have some fun". Since some people can count cards, they gets their fingers broken. This is like kind of like delayed stats. Everyone pays because the rules are bad and those who are better at the game don't make the casino a nice place for retards. It's a huge step back from a meritocratic system. It will be lovely and enjoyable for everyone when it turns into a *real* slush pool flooded with redneck AOL/geocities types who can't figure out which port on their computer the bitcoins are going to come out of.

Awe... Somebody needs a nap (as in you). Did someone take your binkey away? Sound's like you are the one having a temper tantrum now that you are no longer getting your way. I bet for you Puberty is a bitch (as in you are still going through it).

[muyoso]

Why do you consider it cheating?  Playing the system in the most efficient manner isn't cheating.

It's not cheating. It's stealing. If you pool hop you are stealing from the people who use the pool in the intended way.

Explain to me how its stealing?  Its like a kid losing at the game of HORSE complaining because his opponent is just shooting free-throws while he is trying to make half court shots.

[ellipsis]

Awe... Somebody needs a nap (as in you). Did someone take your binkey away? Sound's like you are the one having a temper tantrum now that you are no longer getting your way. I bet for you Puberty is a bitch (as in you are still going through it).

How am I not getting my way? If you consider wanting discussion without entitled children who have difficulty with mathematics whining, then yes. I am not getting my way. If you mean that I can't pool hop here, I don't care. I don't pool hop. It's not worth the trouble. I'm sure eleuthria could confirm, if he wanted to waste even more time on this stupid hopping topic, that I've pissed away something like 13% of my shares while I was fucking around tuning a miner. Does that sound like a hopper? Instead of catering to crybabies, I'd rather eleuthria spend his time fixing the API and keeping the pool running.

[fcmatt]

this all reminds me of people getting upset when others say downloading a movie using bittorrent is stealing
because nothing was taken from anyone else. they still have their copy of the movie.

yet.. anyone with a brain knows it was wrong... even if the word stealing was not quite accurate in the old
fashioned sense.

same thing here more or less. people want to take advantage of a system that helps them and since it does not
"directly" take anything from others (you got paid for your shares just like i did!!!) they consider it good form. when in
reality they must realize in order for them to get more others have to get less. let the peons solve the long rounds..
i am out of here! rofl! suckers!

well pool hoppers.. the bar has been raised at btcguild. get your code on and defeat the stats delay.

[ellipsis]

this all reminds me of people getting upset when others say downloading a movie using bittorrent is stealing
because nothing was taken from anyone else. they still have their copy of the movie.

yet.. anyone with a brain knows it was wrong... even if the word stealing was not quite accurate in the old
fashioned sense.

That's a horrible analogy, unless you are trying to find some sort of moral equivalent to the "wrongness" of the situation. It's more like playing poker and some people have sunglasses on, but you don't like that.

same thing here more or less. people want to take advantage of a system that helps them and since it does not
"directly" take anything from others (you got paid for your shares just like i did!!!) they consider it good form. when in
reality they must realize in order for them to get more others have to get less. let the peons solve the long rounds..
i am out of here! rofl! suckers!

The system is "broken". If you don't take advantage, you *are* a sucker... or lazy.

well pool hoppers.. the bar has been raised at btcguild. get your code on and defeat the stats delay.

It's not already done? For hopping to be closer to impossible, a lot more work and/or a lot less transparency will need to happen.

[muyoso]

this all reminds me of people getting upset when others say downloading a movie using bittorrent is stealing
because nothing was taken from anyone else. they still have their copy of the movie.

yet.. anyone with a brain knows it was wrong... even if the word stealing was not quite accurate in the old
fashioned sense.

well pool hoppers.. the bar has been raised at btcguild. get your code on and defeat the stats delay.

That really is an awful analogy.  Pool hoppers are not violating any law or breaking any rule. 

[Duffman]

It's more like playing poker and some people have sunglasses on, but you don't like that.

that's pretty funny.  I also think the piracy analogy was bad.

[hugolp]

Explain to me how its stealing?  Its like a kid losing at the game of HORSE complaining because his opponent is just shooting free-throws while he is trying to make half court shots.

Bad analogy. A better analogy would be that the owner of the stadium has changed the horse racing rules to make the race more even and give a better spectacle.

Do you realize that if everybody pool hooped the pools would suddenly get stuck in a block because everybody would have gone away? And please, stop the bullshit that you are so clever because you downloaded a program from the Internet that allows you to pool hoop. If I wanted to I could download the same program and run it. Its nothing special.

Its normal that the people who dont pool hoop have asked the pool owner to do something about it. They are being loyal to the pool, sticking around during the long rounds and contributing the less payed shares, and getting the worst part of the deal. The pool owner has decided what type of user s/he wants. Why are you complaining?

[Xephan]

That's a horrible analogy, unless you are trying to find some sort of moral equivalent to the "wrongness" of the situation. It's more like playing poker and some people have sunglasses on, but you don't like that.

Nah, it's more like a group of mercenaries signed up to fight a war. However some people disappear every time a battle lasts more than 5 minutes but still get paid like those who slugged it out for the next 8 hours.

[jme621]

any chance to get the current round/block time back up by the servers list box thingy majigger