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[padrinogtr]

Look at the pool N Average

ooooo k

you need to be more specific

[1714216678]

1714216678

[kano]

not that im complaining
but i wonder why my reward is less this time around

Block   Block UTC                    Miner Reward   N Diff   N Range           Pool N Ave  Your %   Your N Diff   Your N Avg   Your BTC
514430   2018-Mar-20 21:47   12.91714506   17.316T   335hr 1m 12s   61.66PHs    0.20%   34.158G      121.64THs   0.02548164
514075   2018-Mar-18 11:12   12.49342185   16.462T   338hr 37m 31s   58.00PHs    0.21%   33.817G      119.15THs   0.02566552

The reason shown there is that "N Diff" is higher

"N Diff" is higher due to a diff change (and a higher pool hash rate)

To determine "Your BTC" it's: "Miner Reward" * "Your N Diff" / "N Diff"

So changing any of those 3 will affect your reward: the first 2 bigger is better, the last one smaller is better.

[ultimul]

not that im complaining
but i wonder why my reward is less this time around

Block   Block UTC                    Miner Reward   N Diff   N Range           Pool N Ave  Your %   Your N Diff   Your N Avg   Your BTC
514430   2018-Mar-20 21:47   12.91714506   17.316T   335hr 1m 12s   61.66PHs    0.20%   34.158G      121.64THs   0.02548164
514075   2018-Mar-18 11:12   12.49342185   16.462T   338hr 37m 31s   58.00PHs    0.21%   33.817G      119.15THs   0.02566552

maybe more users to share with?

Look at the pool N Average

actually, can someone be kind enough to explain what N Diff, Your N Diff and Your N Avr means? and how and since when are those calculated?
thanks

[itzazkrit]

maybe more users to share with?

Yes, but not necessarily at the Pool, but really your hashrate relative to the ENTIRE network....

[BSGMiner]

Look at the pool N Average

ooooo k

you need to be more specific

Since the pool size jumped up recently (from 58PHs to 61.66PHs), your percentage of the total shares was less in comparison (33.817G / 16.462T vs. 34.158G / 17.316T).

[padrinogtr]

not that im complaining
but i wonder why my reward is less this time around

Block   Block UTC                    Miner Reward   N Diff   N Range           Pool N Ave  Your %   Your N Diff   Your N Avg   Your BTC
514430   2018-Mar-20 21:47   12.91714506   17.316T   335hr 1m 12s   61.66PHs    0.20%   34.158G      121.64THs   0.02548164
514075   2018-Mar-18 11:12   12.49342185   16.462T   338hr 37m 31s   58.00PHs    0.21%   33.817G      119.15THs   0.02566552

The reason shown there is that "N Diff" is higher

"N Diff" is higher due to a diff change (and a higher pool hash rate)

To determine "Your BTC" it's: "Miner Reward" * "Your N Diff" / "N Diff"

So changing any of those 3 will affect your reward: the first 2 bigger is better, the last one smaller is better.

got it

thank you for clearing that up

[kano]

OK, deleted the 'bot' post and all the 'bot related' posts

[BSGMiner]

maybe more users to share with?

Yes, but not necessarily at the Pool, but really your hashrate relative to the ENTIRE network....

Actually, it should just be at the pool-level.

[kano]

People will have noticed yesterday and again today getting DB timeouts more often on the web site.
Seems I need to give KDB a restart to clean that up so I'll do that in a bit under 1hr at 02:00 UTC
NO mining will be affected.

[BSGMiner]

not that im complaining
but i wonder why my reward is less this time around

Block   Block UTC                    Miner Reward   N Diff   N Range           Pool N Ave  Your %   Your N Diff   Your N Avg   Your BTC
514430   2018-Mar-20 21:47   12.91714506   17.316T   335hr 1m 12s   61.66PHs    0.20%   34.158G      121.64THs   0.02548164
514075   2018-Mar-18 11:12   12.49342185   16.462T   338hr 37m 31s   58.00PHs    0.21%   33.817G      119.15THs   0.02566552

maybe more users to share with?

Look at the pool N Average

actually, can someone be kind enough to explain what N Diff, Your N Diff and Your N Avr means? and how and since when are those calculated?
thanks

They're all based on the most recent 500% of Network Difficulty (5Nd) since we found the block in question.

All our miners submit shares in an attempt to find a new candidate block to add to the blockchain. Your Shares x Your Difficulty = Your Diff. Your percentage in comparison to the whole pool (N Diff) determines what percentage of the Miner Reward you get.

Your N Avg refers to the hashrate your miner(s) have averaged over the past 500% of Network Difficulty.

See here for calculations:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=789369.msg32793525#msg32793525

[itzazkrit]

maybe more users to share with?

Yes, but not necessarily at the Pool, but really your hashrate relative to the ENTIRE network....

Actually, it should just be at the pool-level.

It could be in this case, but it doesn't have to be.  I would guess a mix of both pool and overall network. 

Pool rate static & network increase > lower payout
Pool rate increases & network static > lower payout
pool rate increases & network increases > lower payout
pool rate decreases & network static > higher payout
pool rate decreases & network increases > Depends on the % change of each.  Greater % relative network increase to % pool decrease  leads to lower payout.  Vice versa if percentage of pool drop is greater than percent of network increase

Pool hashrate only contributes to the speed at which we crack a block or frequency of payouts.  Your average payout is only determined by YOUR relative hashpower compared to the ENTIRE network and has ZERO to do with pool size....Assuming 100% luck lol

[kano]

maybe more users to share with?

Yes, but not necessarily at the Pool, but really your hashrate relative to the ENTIRE network....

Actually, it should just be at the pool-level.

It could be in this case, but it doesn't have to be.  I would guess a mix of both pool and overall network. 

Pool rate static & network increase > lower payout
Pool rate increases & network static > lower payout
pool rate increases & network increases > lower payout
pool rate decreases & network static > higher payout
pool rate decreases & network increases > Depends on the % change of each.  Greater % relative network increase to % pool decrease  leads to lower payout.  Vice versa if percentage of pool drop is greater than percent of network increase

Pool hashrate only contributes to the speed at which we crack a block or frequency of payouts.  Your average payout is only determined by YOUR relative hashpower compared to the ENTIRE network and has ZERO to do with pool size....Assuming 100% luck lol

Network is only relevant to the pool when there's a Diff Change.
Of course the network causes the Diff Change.

But that's once every 2016 blocks (or about once every 2 weeks) - and was the main case in this particular question.

Otherwise, the hash rate of other pools and the network, between diff changes, has no expected effect on us.

[kano]

People will have noticed yesterday and again today getting DB timeouts more often on the web site.
Seems I need to give KDB a restart to clean that up so I'll do that in a bit under 1hr at 02:00 UTC
NO mining will be affected.

KDB restart completed at 2018-03-21 02:09:18 UTC - all OK.

[savecrypto]

Kano,

I started in like Sept. 17,  I watched payments (blocks, but we all really mean payments) that were coming out every day.   Sometimes, 4 to 5 times a day.  Now that the difficultly is so high, were getting 1 every few days, but in feb, well that just kiss the our a$S goodbye.  I really got to thank you for doing the "10 BTC giveaway to LARGE miners"  I actually did a "miner hop" in feb. even tho i didn't want to.  But this really helped coming back, making my mind up, so glad I did.

[itzazkrit]

Network is only relevant to the pool when there's a Diff Change.
Of course the network causes the Diff Change.

But that's once every 2016 blocks (or about once every 2 weeks) - and was the main case in this particular question.

Otherwise, the hash rate of other pools and the network, between diff changes, has no expected effect on us.

Yes, I get that.  Our hashes are dependent on difficulty. However, difficulty is adjusted to maintain block time.  What is sole variable in block time?  Hashes.  So while that only happens every two weeks, you are still competing against the rest of the network to find a block faster.  

Otherwise, what you are saying is that if every other pool in the world could close up shop for 2 weeks right after difficulty change, then we would not find any more blocks during that time than we would have expected to prior to the 2 week shutoff.

144 blocks total to be found every day right?  And is it not true that every hash sent by every machine has the same probability of cracking a block?  If so, then how could it not average out to total blocks per day generation * your % share of entire network is daily payout?  The only variance you should see in payout is luck.  And pool fees.  And pool operator (which is main reason I'm back mining on Kano).  Left after just being ramped up in February to mine LCC and just came back last week for FOMO lol.

[kano]

Network is only relevant to the pool when there's a Diff Change.
Of course the network causes the Diff Change.

But that's once every 2016 blocks (or about once every 2 weeks) - and was the main case in this particular question.

Otherwise, the hash rate of other pools and the network, between diff changes, has no expected effect on us.

Yes, I get that.  Our hashes are dependent on difficulty. However, difficulty is adjusted to maintain block time.  What is sole variable in block time?  Hashes.  So while that only happens every two weeks, you are still competing against the rest of the network to find a block faster.  

Otherwise, what you are saying is that if every other pool in the world could close up shop for 2 weeks right after difficulty change, then we would not find any more blocks during that time than we would have expected to prior to the 2 week shutoff.

That's what would happen - yes - we wouldn't expect to find blocks any faster, until the next diff change - if every pool on the planet closed but us.

In that case it would also be even worse: the next diff change would be MUCH slower than 2 week - it's not based on time, it's based on 2016 blocks.
So it would have to wait until we found ... 2016 more blocks ... at the expected rate we find blocks - currently one every 2.12 days.
Ouch that would take a LONG time to get to the next diff change if we were the only ones mining Bitcoin ... ~4274 days to the next diff change

[itzazkrit]

Network is only relevant to the pool when there's a Diff Change.
Of course the network causes the Diff Change.

But that's once every 2016 blocks (or about once every 2 weeks) - and was the main case in this particular question.

Otherwise, the hash rate of other pools and the network, between diff changes, has no expected effect on us.

Yes, I get that.  Our hashes are dependent on difficulty. However, difficulty is adjusted to maintain block time.  What is sole variable in block time?  Hashes.  So while that only happens every two weeks, you are still competing against the rest of the network to find a block faster.  

Otherwise, what you are saying is that if every other pool in the world could close up shop for 2 weeks right after difficulty change, then we would not find any more blocks during that time than we would have expected to prior to the 2 week shutoff.

That's what would happen - yes - we wouldn't expect to find blocks any faster, until the next diff change - if every pool on the planet closed but us.

In that case it would also be even worse: the next diff change would be MUCH slower than 2 week - it's not based on time, it's based on 2016 blocks.
So it would have to wait until we found ... 2016 more blocks ... at the expected rate we find blocks - currently one every 2.12 days.
Ouch that would take a LONG time to get to the next diff change if we were the only ones mining Bitcoin ... ~4274 days to the next diff change

Thank you for still trying to explain but I'm still not following......When I was on slush for a short time, you could see along the chart how much work we had completed for every block.  There were many blocks where we were very close to hitting but then someone else did.  Had the other pool not existed, then it seems to me, that sooner rather than later, we would have cracked it with a little more hashpower thrown at it.  

And I get that it would be greater than 2 weeks because we have to crack 2016 for diff change.  Will take much longer now.  I'll ponder on that for a bit and maybe it will come around in my head.  Thanks for the time!

Question...would my model of thinking be correct say if difficulty adjusted every block?  like LCC?


Edit:....So it clicked in my head on my hangup.  If rest of world shut off, then we would never throw work away. Every block we try to crack and dont crack, that is wasted hashpower.  So if we have no competition, every hash and all the work we send to the block will result in a block.  Right now we only have a very small percentage of actual work that results in a block.  How could that not speed up block generation over expected?

[kano]

Network is only relevant to the pool when there's a Diff Change.
Of course the network causes the Diff Change.

But that's once every 2016 blocks (or about once every 2 weeks) - and was the main case in this particular question.

Otherwise, the hash rate of other pools and the network, between diff changes, has no expected effect on us.

Yes, I get that.  Our hashes are dependent on difficulty. However, difficulty is adjusted to maintain block time.  What is sole variable in block time?  Hashes.  So while that only happens every two weeks, you are still competing against the rest of the network to find a block faster.  

Otherwise, what you are saying is that if every other pool in the world could close up shop for 2 weeks right after difficulty change, then we would not find any more blocks during that time than we would have expected to prior to the 2 week shutoff.

That's what would happen - yes - we wouldn't expect to find blocks any faster, until the next diff change - if every pool on the planet closed but us.

In that case it would also be even worse: the next diff change would be MUCH slower than 2 week - it's not based on time, it's based on 2016 blocks.
So it would have to wait until we found ... 2016 more blocks ... at the expected rate we find blocks - currently one every 2.12 days.
Ouch that would take a LONG time to get to the next diff change if we were the only ones mining Bitcoin ... ~4274 days to the next diff change

Thank you for still trying to explain but I'm still not following......When I was on slush for a short time, you could see along the chart how much work we had completed for every block.  There were many blocks where we were very close to hitting but then someone else did.  Had the other pool not existed, then it seems to me, that sooner rather than later, we would have cracked it with a little more hashpower thrown at it.

The misunderstanding is probably: "we were very close to hitting"

You are never close to hitting a block, you either find one or you don't find one, with every hash you do.

There is of course an expected number of hashes to find a block - the N = network difficulty * 2^32
But that doesn't mean you will find one every N hashes - that's just the expected average.

It's easy to follow if you consider hashing blocks the same as rolling a dice - since they are the same in basic understanding.
When you roll a dice, trying to get a "5 or a 6", you are never "close" to getting a "5 or a 6", you either get a "5 or a 6" or you don't.
There's no in-between yes and no.

Bitcoin hashing is exactly the same - but there's a very large number of "yes" values and an even WAY larger number of "no" values.

Question...would my model of thinking be correct say if difficulty adjusted every block?  like LCC?

"Yes" and "I don't know"
"Yes" I think so if difficulty adjusted every block, and "I don't know" (nor do I want to know) anything about LCC

[itzazkrit]

... and "I don't know" (nor do I want to know) anything about LCC

touche

February was hurting and my lonely 741 was printing pennies.  Needed a change.  Worst decision of my life.  Upside, I have 500LCC worth some dust that will buy me a lambo someday lol.

[itzazkrit]

"Yes" and "I don't know"
"Yes" I think so if difficulty adjusted every block, and "I don't know" (nor do I want to know) anything about LCC

From previous edit not sure you saw...


Edit:....So it clicked in my head on my hangup.  If rest of world shut off, then we would never throw work away. Every block we try to crack and dont crack, that is wasted hashpower.  So if we have no competition, every hash and all the work we send to the block will result in a block.  Right now we only have a very small percentage of actual work that results in a block.  How could that not speed up block generation over expected?