KanoPool since 2014 🐈 - PPLNS and Solo 0.5% fee - Worldwide - 2435 blocks

[wavelengthsf]

Thanks guys, i have read a ton about the pay structor so i understand how it works. Right now on F2Pool it pays consistent just have nothing to compare.

You only get paid when we find a block. Because the pool is smaller, you will get paid more per block (once you ramp up) than other PPLNS pools.

Ramp is a function of how the pool pays - it looks at the shares over the last 5 times the network difficulty. If you started mining today, and you looked back over the last 15 trillion shares, your shares would represent a very small portion of the actual hashrate you have.

For best results comparing your payouts here vs. other pools, mine here for at least a month, preferably 3 months to get better sample size.

[1714199357]

1714199357

[soma909]

Kano,

Noob here with 15TH. Do you think my payouts would be similar to other pools? I like to support the smaller pools but havent dipped into your yet.

Go back and read at least the last 4 pages. Understand how it works. Yes you will make more, but if you are into short term and jumping ship for elsewhere, you will lose.

Thanks guys, i have read a ton about the pay structor so i understand how it works. Right now on F2Pool it pays consistent just have nothing to compare.

Medium to long term you will make more here (especially compared to F2) - just don't expect lots of small earnings popping up like you are probably getting now on F2 or any of the other "big" bitmain related pools....

[xkevinx]

Kano,

Noob here with 15TH. Do you think my payouts would be similar to other pools? I like to support the smaller pools but havent dipped into your yet.

Go back and read at least the last 4 pages. Understand how it works. Yes you will make more, but if you are into short term and jumping ship for elsewhere, you will lose.

Thanks guys, i have read a ton about the pay structor so i understand how it works. Right now on F2Pool it pays consistent just have nothing to compare.

Medium to long term you will make more here (especially compared to F2) - just don't expect lots of small earnings popping up like you are probably getting now on F2 or any of the other "big" bitmain related pools....

What a great community, awesome responses even replying to a guy with 2 posts LOL. I'll switch next payout with F2 tomorrow

[padrinogtr]

Yes you do!!   Really, we all should understood it quite well. So, here's the deal......

I'm going to up the stakes and hold you accountable with a new promotion lol!!!  ***** 50 TH/s *****

I want to see how well the small miners understand this and can explain it on a level where YOU(and others, including myself) fully understand it. I want that light bulb to go off and have ZERO doubt about how we are getting paid for our shares and I will donate 50 TH/s for a period of 5 days to a lucky winner.

My rules:

1- You have to have been mining on Kano's Pool with a hash rate between 1 and 10 TH/s
2- You have to have been mining with this hash for at least the last 5 blocks (to be confirmed by Kano)
3- You have to submit your answer in response to this quote and give 2 working examples including the payouts calculated.
4- padrinogtr will have to be able to explain his new understanding with an example in response to the submitted answer and confirmed by KANO.

The 5 day 50 TH/s award will start as soon as I am able to see confirmation and have access to my controllers. I will of course need a worker name.
I understand this is dependent on some cooperation from others, but hey it's 50 TH/s on the line and I'm currently only running about 70 TH/s, so it's a big deal to me.

5 days - 50 TH/s .... don't let us down padrinogtr!!!!!!

*Of course, this is for fun and in the event of a hash rate failure, I will not be obligated to make it up as noted in prior promotions. I hope I'm not leaving out any details. I will stay active with the announcements as well as open to hearing some feedback or details that should be edited.

I really don't want to piss off the head honcho either, so if this is crossing any lines or boundaries, please let me know!

Thanks everyone and MINE ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EDIT: I may have noticed my first mistake and I'm going to attempt to adjust this. Unless padrinogtr really needed this breakdown, I may tweak the rules to the best description from a miner who meets the first 3 rules, but who's answer reaches 10 votes for the best answer. What do you think?

***NOTE*** This competition is not yet valid until I get the "OK" from Kano and will get the details sorted out. SO SAVE YOUR ANSWERS UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE PLEASE!!

Thanks for bumping up your max hash rate to include me...  I have not clue how well I will do since I have only been mining since August 2017 so I guess we will see..  Since we are going for easier to explain, I think it is best to switch to something tangible.  Since I like cookies, this analogy will be 1 cookie = 1 share.  The 5nd is 5 times the difficulty.  Lets keep it simple and say that the difficulty is 20, so 5nd is 100.  There is one cookie jar that can hold exactly 100 cookies which everyone is sharing.  This is a special cookie jar where the bottom kicks out and throws away old cookies when another goes in (so the cookies are always fresh).   For this example, lets say there are 3 miners working on filling the cookie jar.  Each miner is making their own cookie type at different rates.  The long term miner (miner 1) can make 1 peanut butter per minute.  Our miner (miner 2) can make 3 chocolate chip cookies per minute and the third miner (miner 3) can make 6 ginger snaps per minute.  Obviously if I ate all these cookies, I would not like cookies any longer, but you get the idea...
 
To keep it a little simpler, we will assume the block reward is 100 BTC, that cookie jar is initially filled only with peanut butter cookies (100 of them) and that full cookies are submitted once per minute – even though an S9 miner can do 13.5 Trillion hashes per second and the difficulty is also in the trillions, so in reality, our cookies are broken up into billions of pieces per second - but who wants to eat crumbs.  

So when we start mining, the cookie jar is full of other miner’s cookies and none of ours (so sad – no BTC if a block is found).  After each minute, miner 1 adds 1 peanut butter cookie to the jar, we add 3 chocolate chip cookies and miner 3 adds 6 ginger snaps and 10 old peanut butter cookies drop out of the bottom to the trash (or maybe I ate them).  Lets assume we find a block after minute 5.  There have been 5 peanut butter cookies, 15 chocolate chips and 30 ginger snaps added (and 50 old peanut butter cookies removed) so there are a total of 100 – 50 + 5 = 55 peanut butter cookies which is 55% of the jar, 15 chocolate chips which is 15% and 30 ginger snaps which is 30% of the jar.  So 100 BTC  gets distributed based on the percentages (actually 99.1 BTC gets distributed since Kano gets .9%).

If another block gets hit 5 minutes later, there have been a total of 10 peanut butter cookies added (5 new ones), 30 chocolate chips and 60 ginger snaps added (and all 100 of the old peanut butter cookies have been removed) so there are a total of 100 – 100 + 10 = 10 peanut butter cookies which is 10% of the jar, 30 chocolate chips which is 30% and 60 ginger snaps which is 60% of the jar.  So the second 100 BTC gets distributed based on the percentages.

Assuming that these miners continue to contribute the exact same amount with no new miners, when a cookie is added, a cookie is removed so the percentages stay the same going forward.  When that happens, you are getting the most payout you can.  Obviously if your miner goes down for a few minutes, you wont submit cookies so your percentage goes down a little but not a lot.  Also as more miners submit cookies to the jar, your percentage of the jar goes down (and your old cookies fall out a little faster).  The other thing that messes with all this is that when the difficulty goes up every couple weeks, the cookie jar gets bigger – and the cookies that fell out from the smaller jar get added back into the bottom of the jar in the order they left (so the analogy is not as good then).

So in my view of PPLNS, it really has nothing to do with “ramping” at all.  It is more about how many cookies you have put in the jar compared to everyone else.  So if I were to win the 50TH for 5 days, there would simply be a more chocolate chip cookies added to the top of jar for those 5 days over and above my 13.5TH that I have been adding to the mix since August.

Well, that is my attempt!!!  Hopefully I am not wrong and confuse everyone even more…

i give up
i must be really dumb
sorry i got lost after the first paragraph
this bakery did not help at all

[padrinogtr]

It might as well be. Everything on those pages, are a direct correlation to the information on Kano's web page, and this forum thread.

Ultimately, my (main) reluctance would be this:  As it stands now, you could put a "donate to ...." wallet tag as you have currently in your .sig and people would think it would be going to Kano -- not thinking that it was actually going to you.  If it's not official, it's not official. 

i created all the social media pages . and no there will not be any "donate to" links for obvious reasons

[wavelengthsf]

i give up
i must be really dumb
sorry i got lost after the first paragraph
this bakery did not help at all

Ok, how about this. There is a giant pit, and a giant mountain with some gold in it. Miners come and try to find this gold by breaking a piece of rock off. The rock is hard and not easy to break free, so it takes a lot of work to remove a pebble.  

Each miner breaks a pebble off the mountain and throws it in the pit with their unique code. Every now and then, after about 3 trillion pebbles, a miner finds a rock made of gold, and throws that into the pit. When this happens, a machine scans each piece of rock in the pit and gives credit to the miner who threw it in, based on how many pebbles they added and the total pebbles added by all miners.

Instead of just awarding the pebbles they added between now and the last time a gold pebble was added, the machine looks back at the last 15 trillion pebbles added by everyone, and pays them for that work too.

If a miner could add 100 pebbles per day, and started adding them right now, but a gold pebble was found 2 days after they started, looking at the last 15 trillion pebbles, it would average that they were adding less than 100 pebbles per day because so much of the other pebbles were from others. Over time, as the miner added more pebbles, the portion of the last 15 trillion that were added by them would equal the number they produce per day.

This is similar to how the pool works.

[A.Delaney]

Maybe an instructional video would solve a lot of the newbie questions and make thing easier to understand.  Of coarse it would need to be made by someone much smarter than myself. It could be done looking at the pool home page and explaining all the features individually. Go through each one explaining what your looking at and how to read it. Then post it on page one here and on the pool home page. It won’t eliminate all the questions but I’m sure it would help. I think people generally comprehend better with a visual aide.

[soma909]

Kano,

Noob here with 15TH. Do you think my payouts would be similar to other pools? I like to support the smaller pools but havent dipped into your yet.

Go back and read at least the last 4 pages. Understand how it works. Yes you will make more, but if you are into short term and jumping ship for elsewhere, you will lose.

Thanks guys, i have read a ton about the pay structor so i understand how it works. Right now on F2Pool it pays consistent just have nothing to compare.

Medium to long term you will make more here (especially compared to F2) - just don't expect lots of small earnings popping up like you are probably getting now on F2 or any of the other "big" bitmain related pools....

What a great community, awesome responses even replying to a guy with 2 posts LOL. I'll switch next payout with F2 tomorrow

Thanks for supporting a smaller pool! As you have probably already read on the kano.is page you'll need to mine for a bit over 2 weeks (based on the current pool hash rate) to ramp up to full share rewards.

[padrinogtr]

Maybe an instructional video would solve a lot of the newbie questions and make thing easier to understand.  Of coarse it would need to be made by someone much smarter than myself. It could be done looking at the pool home page and explaining all the features individually. Go through each one explaining what your looking at and how to read it. Then post it on page one here and on the pool home page. It won’t eliminate all the questions but I’m sure it would help. I think people generally comprehend better with a visual aide.

ill be the first viewer
when i read i i can only remember 3 sentences at a time everything else becomes a blur

[xkevinx]

Kano,

Noob here with 15TH. Do you think my payouts would be similar to other pools? I like to support the smaller pools but havent dipped into your yet.

Go back and read at least the last 4 pages. Understand how it works. Yes you will make more, but if you are into short term and jumping ship for elsewhere, you will lose.

Thanks guys, i have read a ton about the pay structor so i understand how it works. Right now on F2Pool it pays consistent just have nothing to compare.

Medium to long term you will make more here (especially compared to F2) - just don't expect lots of small earnings popping up like you are probably getting now on F2 or any of the other "big" bitmain related pools....

What a great community, awesome responses even replying to a guy with 2 posts LOL. I'll switch next payout with F2 tomorrow

Thanks for supporting a smaller pool! As you have probably already read on the kano.is page you'll need to mine for a bit over 2 weeks (based on the current pool hash rate) to ramp up to full share rewards.

Sounds good man, ill give her a try.

So here is another question if anyone can answer.. How does the crazy increase in difficultly and overall huge increase in network hash rate affect the smaller pools. For example F2 went from 1000ph to 1360 ph in a matter of weeks, i assume this just makes it that much harder to find blocks.

Let me know your thoughts please

[A.Delaney]

Kano,

Noob here with 15TH. Do you think my payouts would be similar to other pools? I like to support the smaller pools but havent dipped into your yet.

Go back and read at least the last 4 pages. Understand how it works. Yes you will make more, but if you are into short term and jumping ship for elsewhere, you will lose.

Thanks guys, i have read a ton about the pay structor so i understand how it works. Right now on F2Pool it pays consistent just have nothing to compare.

Medium to long term you will make more here (especially compared to F2) - just don't expect lots of small earnings popping up like you are probably getting now on F2 or any of the other "big" bitmain related pools....

What a great community, awesome responses even replying to a guy with 2 posts LOL. I'll switch next payout with F2 tomorrow

Thanks for supporting a smaller pool! As you have probably already read on the kano.is page you'll need to mine for a bit over 2 weeks (based on the current pool hash rate) to ramp up to full share rewards.

Sounds good man, ill give her a try.

So here is another question if anyone can answer.. How does the crazy increase in difficultly and overall huge increase in network hash rate affect the smaller pools. For example F2 went from 1000ph to 1360 ph in a matter of weeks, i assume this just makes it that much harder to find blocks.

Let me know your thoughts please

Only difficulty increasing makes it harder to find blocks

[xkevinx]

i give up
i must be really dumb
sorry i got lost after the first paragraph
this bakery did not help at all

Ok, how about this. There is a giant pit, and a giant mountain with some gold in it. Miners come and try to find this gold by breaking a piece of rock off. The rock is hard and not easy to break free, so it takes a lot of work to remove a pebble.  

Each miner breaks a pebble off the mountain and throws it in the pit with their unique code. Every now and then, after about 3 trillion pebbles, a miner finds a rock made of gold, and throws that into the pit. When this happens, a machine scans each piece of rock in the pit and gives credit to the miner who threw it in, based on how many pebbles they added and the total pebbles added by all miners.

Instead of just awarding the pebbles they added between now and the last time a gold pebble was added, the machine looks back at the last 15 trillion pebbles added by everyone, and pays them for that work too.

If a miner could add 100 pebbles per day, and started adding them right now, but a gold pebble was found 2 days after they started, looking at the last 15 trillion pebbles, it would average that they were adding less than 100 pebbles per day because so much of the other pebbles were from others. Over time, as the miner added more pebbles, the portion of the last 15 trillion that were added by them would equal the number they produce per day.

This is similar to how the pool works.

This is actually great Good read LOL

[gaud]

i give up
i must be really dumb
sorry i got lost after the first paragraph
this bakery did not help at all

Ok, how about this. There is a giant pit, and a giant mountain with some gold in it. Miners come and try to find this gold by breaking a piece of rock off. The rock is hard and not easy to break free, so it takes a lot of work to remove a pebble.  

Each miner breaks a pebble off the mountain and throws it in the pit with their unique code. Every now and then, after about 3 trillion pebbles, a miner finds a rock made of gold, and throws that into the pit. When this happens, a machine scans each piece of rock in the pit and gives credit to the miner who threw it in, based on how many pebbles they added and the total pebbles added by all miners.

Instead of just awarding the pebbles they added between now and the last time a gold pebble was added, the machine looks back at the last 15 trillion pebbles added by everyone, and pays them for that work too.

If a miner could add 100 pebbles per day, and started adding them right now, but a gold pebble was found 2 days after they started, looking at the last 15 trillion pebbles, it would average that they were adding less than 100 pebbles per day because so much of the other pebbles were from others. Over time, as the miner added more pebbles, the portion of the last 15 trillion that were added by them would equal the number they produce per day.

This is similar to how the pool works.

This is actually great Good read LOL

yes jst need to change the pit into a conveyor belt which moves with hashrate instead of time . can have a light over the effected watch area and a brighter light for the pay area . fun contest even though i haven't been here long enough to qualify its a fun community

[chauski01]

Kano,

Noob here with 15TH. Do you think my payouts would be similar to other pools? I like to support the smaller pools but havent dipped into your yet.

hi, were somewhat on the same range, i have 14.34 ramped up TH/s ave.  This can be seen in WORKERS > SHIFT GRAPH, the right most corner that has "xx.xx av"  (where x = the numbers)

I have mined with kano back and forth before but since Jan 22, stayed and planned to stay for good.


Sharing you my experience as a small miner and long time lurker:
The S9 i got has around 14TH/s and in every block with a miner reward of 12.4-13.4 size yields me 0.0035-0.0039 and this was the time when the pool was at 46-50PHs (estimate).

So with this in place, if everything stays thesame, we just need to get at least 10 blocks of at least 12.5 miner reward and we get thesame BTC mined as per cryptocompare gives us:

"https://www.cryptocompare.com/mining/calculator/btc?HashingPower=14&HashingUnit=TH%2Fs&PowerConsumption=1600&CostPerkWh=0.2&MiningPoolFee=0.9"


with a more of luck on the pools' side, if we get more than 10 blocks plus a block with more miner reward in it in a month with exactly thesame figures of PH in the pool, then we get more compared to other pools.

this is just my observation and experience, if there is any wrong info i have mentioned, long time pool gurus, please educate me 

[padrinogtr]

another S9 coming online

MINE ON!!!

[perfectplus174]

i like this one though drawing the cookies might be tricky here lol. but since its PPL5NS u might wana add how instead of getting your cookies all at once when a block is found it is spred out over 5 payouts at least this is how i understand it though iv only been adding cookies for a few days now but i want double chocolate chipos

Drawing cookies would be really tough.  I also thought about colored marbles which might be easier - although not as tasty and harder to track first in / first out. Yes, the example is not at all realistic today - since I had a diff of 20 (5 times being 100), the jar rolled through all the cookies in a few minutes.  Obviously we are putting in 47,823 trillion hashes per second (not sure how many shares / cookies that is) and the diff is 3,007,383,866,429, so the jar is much bigger and so it takes wayyyy longer to cycle through the whole jar with cookies.  As I understand it, during the 5nd may find 50 (or 500) blocks or we may get none at all during the time we are filling the cookie jar so I do not think it is related to blocks found either.  yes, this very confusing and I think this is getting into the realm of making it more confusing though....

Let's try another comparison. Considering it's referenced as "mining" for similarities in proof of work, we will stick to that analogy. It's also more of an overall analogy of mining than just the 5Nd but I had fun so......

****NOTE: There may be some references to diff that I mixed up, so someone sort through this insane scenario if necessary.

You show up to Kano's job site looking to mine for some gold with the others in this pool. You READ THE RULES and notice nobody gets paid until a golden block is found. Maybe you're brand new, maybe you have equipment from another job site, either way some of these guys have some massive machinery and are hashing away rock and what not looking for a hidden block of gold.

work/shifts: You set your equipment up however powerful (since we're painting mental pictures, say you've got 10 TH/s) start hashing away looking for gold with the work you've been given. All that rock goes onto a conveyor belt so it can be measured and verified how much material (shares) you actually did versus how much sand/dirt was rejected. As you are mining and loading the conveyor belt, the material (shares) is being counted and split up into shifts of 50 minutes or less to keep track of the average work you've done. Your mining equipment's work rate (hash rate) is measured by how how much material (shares) you can load onto the conveyor in retrospect to the difficulty in moving the material and the conveyor speed .

luck:Meanwhile, the pool is exchanging dump truck loads of new rock material to mine on about every 30 seconds that it needs to move to the conveyor in order to try and find a hidden golden block. The miners expect to find a golden block within a certain amount of time & material moved as a work goal. If the pool finds a golden block in the expected amount of work/time then they were 100% on track for payday. The hope is that they can process enough material that they will likely find a golden block. There is no guarantee that the material will be enough to find a golden block and payday may be delayed. The more paydays occur closer to their target, the closer to 100% the average paydays work out to be. The more material than can be processed, the higher the odds of an on-time or even early payday. _{On occasion, Bob's wife sends him with chicken for lunch which increases the morale of the miners and significantly increases the luck of the pool. Furthermore, when a golden block is found, ritualistic dancing and praising of chicken often lures a golden block out from hiding much earlier than expected. This is great luck and sometimes triggers an overwhelming response to make amends amongst feuding crew members suffering from block withdrawals due to an earlier streak of bad luck.}


5Nd/ramp: After a couple days of complaining you're not getting paid because nobody has found a golden block yet, one of the miners finds a block of gold and everyone cheers. Finally, this is payout is gonna be NICE! You check your rewards to see your payment and say "WHAT THE HELL?! This Kano guy is ripping me off" to which the rest of the pool's miners say "Whoa there, bud. Our dear Kano is NOT ripping you off." The miner cries out that he has been mining away at a rate of 10 TH/s for 2 days now and got a low payout for all of his work. "Yes, that's the PPLNS system in full effect, brotha." You scratch your head and say "But why is my paycheck so much smaller than my last job where I was getting paid several times a day?" By this time you grabbed the attention of a few veteran miners who try to explain to you that everything works out or they wouldn't be here and to just keep working. They assure you this is the best pool with several members inviting your questions and the pool operator himself, Kano, stays active with letting everyone know what's going and sharing his knowledge. They try to explain, but you still can't get passed that small payment you feel was wasted away for nothing.

So, what about all that material you mined? Though you submitted your material to the conveyor and it was accounted for, it does not get included in the very next paycheck. Instead, the conveyor is moving the material to the pools storage facility and the reward is being calculated down the conveyor line. It starts from the last block found and keeps tallying those shift averages (total shares during a shift) until the total difficulty it took to process the material (shares) adds up to 5 times worth the difficulty of all total golden block mining operations with the idea of a 100% targeted golden block paycheck and is then divided by 5 ( or simply 1/5) of that as a means to average the swings. This way if your conveyor belt has patches of no material or a reduced amount of material, you won't miss out on your paycheck as it will be averaged with your other shares by multiplying 5 times worth then dividing by 5 for an average. It also prevents a new miner from pulling up next to you and your conveyor and only processing a few shifts worth at the same rate but getting the same paycheck as you without sharing his damn chicken even.

[BSGMiner]

...
I'm open to some feedback on a fun little perk on doubling someone's hash, but unless it's for a 5nd period, it will never get the full benefits.
...

If you mine for 10 hours at 4 TH/s you expect to get rewarded 10 hours at 4 TH/s
The 5Nd is only how the reward comes to you to reduce variance ...
which is from when you start until 5Nd after you stop i.e. start + 10hrs + 5Nd

I must have confused myself somewhere down the line just when I thought I understood it correctly. Can we expand on that example a little more? My brain catches on quicker with a detailed example.....

So, let's say someone has been mining for at least enough to have ramped up their 4 TH/s and was awarded another 4 TH/s as part of a giveaway and a block was found around 200 % difficulty from when the reward was added. To be clear, it only counts back shares equal to that 2Nd period since the last block, correct? Then the promotion expires and the extra hash starts to ramp down and another block isn't found until say another 300%. Those 2 blocks that total the 500% end up paying for the entire 4 TH/s that was added spread out over subsequent blocks up to 5Nd, no?

This is how I understand it and I'm confused why I worded it the way I did above. It was Friday and I had the weekend on my mind I guess.

I do have the correct understanding of how the 5Nd pays the shares though, right?

I don’t even wanna understand it. It’s just too much for my little brain. Mine on!!!

Yes you do!!   Really, we all should understood it quite well. So, here's the deal......

I'm going to up the stakes and hold you accountable with a new promotion lol!!!  ***** 50 TH/s *****

I want to see how well the small miners understand this and can explain it on a level where YOU(and others, including myself) fully understand it. I want that light bulb to go off and have ZERO doubt about how we are getting paid for our shares and I will donate 50 TH/s for a period of 5 days to a lucky winner.

My rules:

1- You have to have been mining on Kano's Pool with a hash rate between 1 and 10 TH/s
2- You have to have been mining with this hash for at least the last 5 blocks (to be confirmed by Kano)
3- You have to submit your answer in response to this quote and give 2 working examples including the payouts calculated.
4- padrinogtr will have to be able to explain his new understanding with an example in response to the submitted answer and confirmed by KANO.

The 5 day 50 TH/s award will start as soon as I am able to see confirmation and have access to my controllers. I will of course need a worker name.
I understand this is dependent on some cooperation from others, but hey it's 50 TH/s on the line and I'm currently only running about 70 TH/s, so it's a big deal to me.

5 days - 50 TH/s .... don't let us down padrinogtr!!!!!!

*Of course, this is for fun and in the event of a hash rate failure, I will not be obligated to make it up as noted in prior promotions. I hope I'm not leaving out any details. I will stay active with the announcements as well as open to hearing some feedback or details that should be edited.

I really don't want to piss off the head honcho either, so if this is crossing any lines or boundaries, please let me know!

Thanks everyone and MINE ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EDIT: I may have noticed my first mistake and I'm going to attempt to adjust this. Unless padrinogtr really needed this breakdown, I may tweak the rules to the best description from a miner who meets the first 3 rules, but who's answer reaches 10 votes for the best answer. What do you think?

***NOTE*** This competition is not yet valid until I get the "OK" from Kano and will get the details sorted out. SO SAVE YOUR ANSWERS UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE PLEASE!!

i love games!!! lets play!!!!

BTCBTCBTCBTC Okay, this competition is officially underway. It may seem a little goofy, but I wanted to keep the morale up as the forum is much more inviting when it is so. I also feel it is good to have different ways to understand that we can always point back to for those who struggle.

Padrinogtr doesn't have the concept down enough to be able to explain it, so it's open for someone who can create a visual that connects the dots. Everyone has their own way of understanding it and Kano has broken it down with a visual, but it's still not quite registering and that's okay, we all have different learning methods. I'm hoping someone can get creative enough though. So, competition is on for 50 TH/s !!!!!!!!

Alright... here goes nuthin'!  

Padrinogtr, I doubt you'd be here mining if you weren't at least partially interested in money, so I hope this analogy will keep your attention past the first paragraph! (See Definitions for bold phrases if you get confused )

The Analogy:
Imagine a bunch of us sitting around with our own unsealed paper coin rolls/wrappers in which each of us continues to grab a handful at a time of coins of all different denominations--that we are supplied by the smartest one among us so we'll work the most efficiently--and insert them into one side of the coin wrapper until it's so full that they start falling out of the other side. At any point in time, the most recent coin pushed into one of the coin rolls could be a $1 coin, which is currently the magic number that everyone is looking for to put in their coin wrapper so we can all get paid and take a break for a (nano)second. Once that $1 coin is found, the lucky guy who found it shouts in glee that he found the one that everyone was looking for, and we all spread the word that it's been found and share the details about the event that just took place.

The Reward:
At the point where the $1 coin was found, the rest of us immediately want to know how much we're going to get paid for the work we did. We all know that the current reward for finding the magic number is $12,500, and now it's time to split it all up based on the work that everyone did. So, the boss adds up all the coins that each of us had in our coin wrappers and gives us a percentage of the $12,500 based on the face value of the coins we each individually fit into the coin wrappers--not counting the ones that fell out of the other side.

Example Payout:
Let's say I have small hands and can't grab big handfuls of big coins like some of the other guys around here , so I was usually putting dimes ($0.10) in my coin wrapper in between taking breaks every now and then. Well, when it comes time to add everything up, at best I might be able to fit $5 total in my whole coin wrapper--by the way, the wrapper is always five (5) times the magic number. Now, when the boss compares this to some of the other guys who were filling their coin wrappers with half-dollar pieces ($0.50) totaling $20 per roll, of course, they would expect to get four (4) times the reward that I would get. To keep things simple, let's just say there were only two (2) of us filling the coin wrappers. I got $5 into mine, and you got $20 into yours. My contribution ($5) divided by the total of all contributions ($5 + $20 = $25) would be 0.20 (20%), which would get me a payout of the result of the following equation:

$12,500 minus the boss' cut of 0.9% (0.009)--$12,500 - $112.50 = $12,387.50--multiplied by 0.2 equaling $2,477.50.

However, your contribution ($20) divided by the total of all contributions ($5 + $20 = $25) would be 0.80 (80%), which would result in a payout for you equaling ($12,387.50 multiplied by 0.80) $9,910.

Closing:
There are certain areas above that I could've delved into a little deeper, but I wanted to keep it relatively simple and light-hearted, so that's all I have. Thanks everybody for giving me a shot, and thanks PerfectPlus174 for putting a great challenge out there for us to show how much we've been paying attention to what all these great contributors are sharing with us. Goodnight all!

Definitions:
Big Handfuls of Big Coins = Top-of-the-line ASIC miners
Bunch of Us = Pool of miners
Coins of all different denominations = Shares of various values of miner work
Current Reward = 12.5 BTC Miner Reward (plus Transactions Fees)
Details about the Event = New candidate block information
Each of Us = Individual Miners
Everyone = All miners on the global Bitcoin network
Get Paid = Receive our portion of the Miner Reward
Handful at a Time = A share of mining work
Lucky Guy = The miner who found the new candidate block
Magic Number = Network Difficulty
Small Hands = Low-level ASIC miner
Spread the Word = Propagating the new candidate block information around the global Bitcoin network
Take a Break = Ending the mining shift early to reset for the next block
Taking Breaks Every Now and Then = Stupid internet and power companies!
The Boss / Smartest One Among Us = Kano, of course
The Boss' Cut = The pool fee
Falling Out The Other Side = The work we did prior to the 5Nd
Unsealed Paper Coin Rolls/Wrappers = The 5Nd

Disclaimer: I should very well get disqualified for just being picked in luxMiner's promo, which technically threw me over the 15Ths cap. On the other hand, my usual hashpower is only 3.5Ths, and I actually had to work for this one, so I tried to give my best real-world analogy based on my understanding of how the 5Nd and mining in general works.

Thanks again,
BSGMiner

[BSGMiner]

i like this one though drawing the cookies might be tricky here lol. but since its PPL5NS u might wana add how instead of getting your cookies all at once when a block is found it is spred out over 5 payouts at least this is how i understand it though iv only been adding cookies for a few days now but i want double chocolate chipos

Drawing cookies would be really tough.  I also thought about colored marbles which might be easier - although not as tasty and harder to track first in / first out. Yes, the example is not at all realistic today - since I had a diff of 20 (5 times being 100), the jar rolled through all the cookies in a few minutes.  Obviously we are putting in 47,823 trillion hashes per second (not sure how many shares / cookies that is) and the diff is 3,007,383,866,429, so the jar is much bigger and so it takes wayyyy longer to cycle through the whole jar with cookies.  As I understand it, during the 5nd may find 50 (or 500) blocks or we may get none at all during the time we are filling the cookie jar so I do not think it is related to blocks found either.  yes, this very confusing and I think this is getting into the realm of making it more confusing though....

Let's try another comparison. Considering it's referenced as "mining" for similarities in proof of work, we will stick to that analogy. It's also more of an overall analogy of mining than just the 5Nd but I had fun so......

****NOTE: There may be some references to diff that I mixed up, so someone sort through this insane scenario if necessary.

You show up to Kano's job site looking to mine for some gold with the others in this pool. You READ THE RULES and notice nobody gets paid until a golden block is found. Maybe you're brand new, maybe you have equipment from another job site, either way some of these guys have some massive machinery and are hashing away rock and what not looking for a hidden block of gold.

work/shifts: You set your equipment up however powerful (since we're painting mental pictures, say you've got 10 TH/s) start hashing away looking for gold with the work you've been given. All that rock goes onto a conveyor belt so it can be measured and verified how much material (shares) you actually did versus how much sand/dirt was rejected. As you are mining and loading the conveyor belt, the material (shares) is being counted and split up into shifts of 50 minutes or less to keep track of the average work you've done. Your mining equipment's work rate (hash rate) is measured by how how much material (shares) you can load onto the conveyor in retrospect to the difficulty in moving the material and the conveyor speed .

luck:Meanwhile, the pool is exchanging dump truck loads of new rock material to mine on about every 30 seconds that it needs to move to the conveyor in order to try and find a hidden golden block. The miners expect to find a golden block within a certain amount of time & material moved as a work goal. If the pool finds a golden block in the expected amount of work/time then they were 100% on track for payday. The hope is that they can process enough material that they will likely find a golden block. There is no guarantee that the material will be enough to find a golden block and payday may be delayed. The more paydays occur closer to their target, the closer to 100% the average paydays work out to be. The more material than can be processed, the higher the odds of an on-time or even early payday. _{On occasion, Bob's wife sends him with chicken for lunch which increases the morale of the miners and significantly increases the luck of the pool. Furthermore, when a golden block is found, ritualistic dancing and praising of chicken often lures a golden block out from hiding much earlier than expected. This is great luck and sometimes triggers an overwhelming response to make amends amongst feuding crew members suffering from block withdrawals due to an earlier streak of bad luck.}


5Nd/ramp: After a couple days of complaining you're not getting paid because nobody has found a golden block yet, one of the miners finds a block of gold and everyone cheers. Finally, this is payout is gonna be NICE! You check your rewards to see your payment and say "WHAT THE ?! This Kano guy is ripping me off" to which the rest of the pool's miners say "Whoa there, bud. Our dear Kano is NOT ripping you off." The miner cries out that he has been mining away at a rate of 10 TH/s for 2 days now and got a low payout for all of his work. "Yes, that's the PPLNS system in full effect, brotha." You scratch your head and say "But why is my paycheck so much smaller than my last job where I was getting paid several times a day?" By this time you grabbed the attention of a few veteran miners who try to explain to you that everything works out or they wouldn't be here and to just keep working. They assure you this is the best pool with several members inviting your questions and the pool operator himself, Kano, stays active with letting everyone know what's going and sharing his knowledge. They try to explain, but you still can't get passed that small payment you feel was wasted away for nothing.

So, what about all that material you mined? Though you submitted your material to the conveyor and it was accounted for, it does not get included in the very next paycheck. Instead, the conveyor is moving the material to the pools storage facility and the reward is being calculated down the conveyor line. It starts from the last block found and keeps tallying those shift averages (total shares during a shift) until the total difficulty it took to process the material (shares) adds up to 5 times worth the difficulty of all total golden block mining operations with the idea of a 100% targeted golden block paycheck and is then divided by 5 ( or simply 1/5) of that as a means to average the swings. This way if your conveyor belt has patches of no material or a reduced amount of material, you won't miss out on your paycheck as it will be averaged with your other shares by multiplying 5 times worth then dividing by 5 for an average. It also prevents a new miner from pulling up next to you and your conveyor and only processing a few shifts worth at the same rate but getting the same paycheck as you without sharing his  chicken even.

Dude, you had me crackin' up reading this thing. Ha!

[padrinogtr]

My brain is about to explode so. I’ll take a look at this tomorrow. I’m going to sleep.
Thanks for all the effort tho.

Mine on!!!

[gaud]

i like this one though drawing the cookies might be tricky here lol. but since its PPL5NS u might wana add how instead of getting your cookies all at once when a block is found it is spred out over 5 payouts at least this is how i understand it though iv only been adding cookies for a few days now but i want double chocolate chipos

Drawing cookies would be really tough.  I also thought about colored marbles which might be easier - although not as tasty and harder to track first in / first out. Yes, the example is not at all realistic today - since I had a diff of 20 (5 times being 100), the jar rolled through all the cookies in a few minutes.  Obviously we are putting in 47,823 trillion hashes per second (not sure how many shares / cookies that is) and the diff is 3,007,383,866,429, so the jar is much bigger and so it takes wayyyy longer to cycle through the whole jar with cookies.  As I understand it, during the 5nd may find 50 (or 500) blocks or we may get none at all during the time we are filling the cookie jar so I do not think it is related to blocks found either.  yes, this very confusing and I think this is getting into the realm of making it more confusing though....

Let's try another comparison. Considering it's referenced as "mining" for similarities in proof of work, we will stick to that analogy. It's also more of an overall analogy of mining than just the 5Nd but I had fun so......

****NOTE: There may be some references to diff that I mixed up, so someone sort through this insane scenario if necessary.

You show up to Kano's job site looking to mine for some gold with the others in this pool. You READ THE RULES and notice nobody gets paid until a golden block is found. Maybe you're brand new, maybe you have equipment from another job site, either way some of these guys have some massive machinery and are hashing away rock and what not looking for a hidden block of gold.

work/shifts: You set your equipment up however powerful (since we're painting mental pictures, say you've got 10 TH/s) start hashing away looking for gold with the work you've been given. All that rock goes onto a conveyor belt so it can be measured and verified how much material (shares) you actually did versus how much sand/dirt was rejected. As you are mining and loading the conveyor belt, the material (shares) is being counted and split up into shifts of 50 minutes or less to keep track of the average work you've done. Your mining equipment's work rate (hash rate) is measured by how how much material (shares) you can load onto the conveyor in retrospect to the difficulty in moving the material and the conveyor speed .

luck:Meanwhile, the pool is exchanging dump truck loads of new rock material to mine on about every 30 seconds that it needs to move to the conveyor in order to try and find a hidden golden block. The miners expect to find a golden block within a certain amount of time & material moved as a work goal. If the pool finds a golden block in the expected amount of work/time then they were 100% on track for payday. The hope is that they can process enough material that they will likely find a golden block. There is no guarantee that the material will be enough to find a golden block and payday may be delayed. The more paydays occur closer to their target, the closer to 100% the average paydays work out to be. The more material than can be processed, the higher the odds of an on-time or even early payday. _{On occasion, Bob's wife sends him with chicken for lunch which increases the morale of the miners and significantly increases the luck of the pool. Furthermore, when a golden block is found, ritualistic dancing and praising of chicken often lures a golden block out from hiding much earlier than expected. This is great luck and sometimes triggers an overwhelming response to make amends amongst feuding crew members suffering from block withdrawals due to an earlier streak of bad luck.}


5Nd/ramp: After a couple days of complaining you're not getting paid because nobody has found a golden block yet, one of the miners finds a block of gold and everyone cheers. Finally, this is payout is gonna be NICE! You check your rewards to see your payment and say "WHAT THE HELL?! This Kano guy is ripping me off" to which the rest of the pool's miners say "Whoa there, bud. Our dear Kano is NOT ripping you off." The miner cries out that he has been mining away at a rate of 10 TH/s for 2 days now and got a low payout for all of his work. "Yes, that's the PPLNS system in full effect, brotha." You scratch your head and say "But why is my paycheck so much smaller than my last job where I was getting paid several times a day?" By this time you grabbed the attention of a few veteran miners who try to explain to you that everything works out or they wouldn't be here and to just keep working. They assure you this is the best pool with several members inviting your questions and the pool operator himself, Kano, stays active with letting everyone know what's going and sharing his knowledge. They try to explain, but you still can't get passed that small payment you feel was wasted away for nothing.

So, what about all that material you mined? Though you submitted your material to the conveyor and it was accounted for, it does not get included in the very next paycheck. Instead, the conveyor is moving the material to the pools storage facility and the reward is being calculated down the conveyor line. It starts from the last block found and keeps tallying those shift averages (total shares during a shift) until the total difficulty it took to process the material (shares) adds up to 5 times worth the difficulty of all total golden block mining operations with the idea of a 100% targeted golden block paycheck and is then divided by 5 ( or simply 1/5) of that as a means to average the swings. This way if your conveyor belt has patches of no material or a reduced amount of material, you won't miss out on your paycheck as it will be averaged with your other shares by multiplying 5 times worth then dividing by 5 for an average. It also prevents a new miner from pulling up next to you and your conveyor and only processing a few shifts worth at the same rate but getting the same paycheck as you without sharing his damn chicken even.

rofl now we jst need some actors tyo make a vid since we have a good story rofl.

and to the next post who sais we must be hear for money im more hear cause i dont like corporations and since major corp gives me appts with free hydro this seems like a dam funny idea to me im mining from their profits
canx get 6 s9's per 1 bedroom appt roughly 700$ of hydro for a 800 $ appt