KanoPool since 2014 🐈 - PPLNS and Solo 0.5% fee - Worldwide - 2438 blocks

[clgrissom3]

Dang, Kano pool really really takes some patience

It's been 12 days, and my ramp is up at 6.10av outta 13.5, so it takes more than 16 days as well

Definitely agree. Feeling a bit mislead right now as I’m a week in and not even a third of the way. Unless scaling isn’t linear, it’s significantly longer than projected. Quite frustrating combined with no rewards. Stocking this out but it’s not easy to see the light at this point

For those suggesting reading the website for answers, I argue back with: if the website actually did a decent job of explaining, there would be much less question repetition here. It may make sense to people that already know the answe, but to newcomers it is very vague in many regards.

The 5Nd means it takes that long to reward your shares.
The ramp isn't missing rewards, it's delaying them to reduce variance.
Each share is rewarded in all the blocks found in the 5Nd after the share.
That's simply how it reduces variance. Each share's reward is averaged out over the 5Nd after it.

How do the PPLNS payments work?

The 5Nd means the pool rewards 5 times the expected number of shares, each time a block is found.
So each share will be paid approximately 1/5 of it's expected value in each block it gets a reward,
but each share is also expected, on average, to be rewarded 5 times in blocks found after the share is submitted to the pool.

So, on the 1st block the pool hits when you start on Kano you get rewarded 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for that block.  On the 2nd block the pool hits you get 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for the 2nd block plus 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for the 1st block.  On the 3rd block the pool hits you get 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for the 3rd block plus 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for the 2nd block plus 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for the 1st block and on and on like that until all of the value of the shares are paid.  That's also how you would continue to get payouts for the 5Nd ramp down period after you leave this pool.

This is a simplistic view of 5Nd because it is also affected by luck.  If pool luck was always 100% then each share is expected to be rewarded 5 times.
If pool luck is better than 100%, then the average share reward will be better than 5 times.
If pool luck is worse than 100%, then the average share reward will be less than 5 times.

The 5Nd really helps you out if your miners went down for a couple of hours or a day.  You would continue to be rewarded if the pool hit a block while you were down.  I've seen pools where you would get nothing out of a block if you were down for just an hour or so when the block was hit.

[robroyman]

Thanks a mill for that great explanation

Dang, Kano pool really really takes some patience

It's been 12 days, and my ramp is up at 6.10av outta 13.5, so it takes more than 16 days as well

Definitely agree. Feeling a bit mislead right now as I’m a week in and not even a third of the way. Unless scaling isn’t linear, it’s significantly longer than projected. Quite frustrating combined with no rewards. Stocking this out but it’s not easy to see the light at this point

For those suggesting reading the website for answers, I argue back with: if the website actually did a decent job of explaining, there would be much less question repetition here. It may make sense to people that already know the answe, but to newcomers it is very vague in many regards.

The 5Nd means it takes that long to reward your shares.
The ramp isn't missing rewards, it's delaying them to reduce variance.
Each share is rewarded in all the blocks found in the 5Nd after the share.
That's simply how it reduces variance. Each share's reward is averaged out over the 5Nd after it.

How do the PPLNS payments work?

The 5Nd means the pool rewards 5 times the expected number of shares, each time a block is found.
So each share will be paid approximately 1/5 of it's expected value in each block it gets a reward,
but each share is also expected, on average, to be rewarded 5 times in blocks found after the share is submitted to the pool.

So, on the 1st block the pool hits when you start on Kano you get rewarded 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for that block.  On the 2nd block the pool hits you get 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for the 2nd block plus 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for the 1st block.  On the 3rd block the pool hits you get 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for the 3rd block plus 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for the 2nd block plus 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for the 1st block and on and on like that until all of the value of the shares are paid.  That's also how you would continue to get payouts for the 5Nd ramp down period after you leave this pool.

This is a simplistic view of 5Nd because it is also affected by luck.  If pool luck was always 100% then each share is expected to be rewarded 5 times.
If pool luck is better than 100%, then the average share reward will be better than 5 times.
If pool luck is worse than 100%, then the average share reward will be less than 5 times.

The 5Nd really helps you out if your miners went down for a couple of hours or a day.  You would continue to be rewarded if the pool hit a block while you were down.  I've seen pools where you would get nothing out of a block if you were down for just an hour or so when the block was hit.

[lok8nusa]

Another long block.

Y'all ain't going to be upset if I crack this with a U2, are y'all?


Mine on!

[rifleman74]

Another long block.

Y'all ain't going to be upset if I crack this with a U2, are y'all?


Mine on!

Can crack it with a walnut as far as I'm concerned.   Onto the next block asap

[DPoS2]

Decentralization is great and all but it seems some of the smaller pools need to join forces..  we have slid back down to 40PH
If we could get a couple other small pools to join Kano and get to 100PH that might make things happier for everyone going into 2018.

I rather bring this up now than have people say the same thing in 6 months with 'should of's, could of's' attached to the same ideas.

Letting small pools die slowly hurts everyone involved as probably half go to larger evil pools and less and less of the mining pie stay with the good guys.

[bigolin]

Decentralization is great and all but it seems some of the smaller pools need to join forces..  we have slid back down to 40PH
If we could get a couple other small pools to join Kano and get to 100PH that might make things happier for everyone going into 2018.

I rather bring this up now than have people say the same thing in 6 months with 'should of's, could of's' attached to the same ideas.

Letting small pools die slowly hurts everyone involved as probably half go to larger evil pools and less and less of the mining pie stay with the good guys.

You are probably right. If you'll let them know that they are welcome at Kano we'll have a spot waiting for them.

Good thing we jumped on this early!

[clgrissom3]

Thanks a mill for that great explanation

Dang, Kano pool really really takes some patience

It's been 12 days, and my ramp is up at 6.10av outta 13.5, so it takes more than 16 days as well

Definitely agree. Feeling a bit mislead right now as I’m a week in and not even a third of the way. Unless scaling isn’t linear, it’s significantly longer than projected. Quite frustrating combined with no rewards. Stocking this out but it’s not easy to see the light at this point

For those suggesting reading the website for answers, I argue back with: if the website actually did a decent job of explaining, there would be much less question repetition here. It may make sense to people that already know the answe, but to newcomers it is very vague in many regards.

The 5Nd means it takes that long to reward your shares.
The ramp isn't missing rewards, it's delaying them to reduce variance.
Each share is rewarded in all the blocks found in the 5Nd after the share.
That's simply how it reduces variance. Each share's reward is averaged out over the 5Nd after it.

How do the PPLNS payments work?

The 5Nd means the pool rewards 5 times the expected number of shares, each time a block is found.
So each share will be paid approximately 1/5 of it's expected value in each block it gets a reward,
but each share is also expected, on average, to be rewarded 5 times in blocks found after the share is submitted to the pool.

So, on the 1st block the pool hits when you start on Kano you get rewarded 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for that block.  On the 2nd block the pool hits you get 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for the 2nd block plus 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for the 1st block.  On the 3rd block the pool hits you get 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for the 3rd block plus 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for the 2nd block plus 1/5 of the value of the shares you submitted for the 1st block and on and on like that until all of the value of the shares are paid.  That's also how you would continue to get payouts for the 5Nd ramp down period after you leave this pool.

This is a simplistic view of 5Nd because it is also affected by luck.  If pool luck was always 100% then each share is expected to be rewarded 5 times.
If pool luck is better than 100%, then the average share reward will be better than 5 times.
If pool luck is worse than 100%, then the average share reward will be less than 5 times.

The 5Nd really helps you out if your miners went down for a couple of hours or a day.  You would continue to be rewarded if the pool hit a block while you were down.  I've seen pools where you would get nothing out of a block if you were down for just an hour or so when the block was hit.

I copied this from a Kano post from a couple of years ago and I added a little to it.

[fjtropepe]

Thanks, I set out with the intention of giving a month or two to the pool anyways. Was just a bit disappointed by the slow ramp while my other S9's were pulling in daily profits on Nicehash, etc.

I am offering daily payouts at Kano equal to what you were receiving. Just plug in my worker name and you are good to go. 

[Grog!]

Decentralization is great and all but it seems some of the smaller pools need to join forces..  we have slid back down to 40PH
If we could get a couple other small pools to join Kano and get to 100PH that might make things happier for everyone going into 2018.

I rather bring this up now than have people say the same thing in 6 months with 'should of's, could of's' attached to the same ideas.

Letting small pools die slowly hurts everyone involved as probably half go to larger evil pools and less and less of the mining pie stay with the good guys.

You are probably right. If you'll let them know that they are welcome at Kano we'll have a spot waiting for them.

Good thing we jumped on this early!

I don't think it is so easy. Maybe little pools with 0% fees are easier to merge, but fee/for-profit pools have more difficulties. Not a matter of size, a matter of money.  

[A.Delaney]

Is the pool up and running right now?

Up, down, and sideways.
Check your internet

My miner switched pools. That’s why I was wondering. It went back a few mins later

[Yrth]

Dang, Kano pool really really takes some patience

It's been 12 days, and my ramp is up at 6.10av outta 13.5, so it takes more than 16 days as well

Definitely agree. Feeling a bit mislead right now as I’m a week in and not even a third of the way. Unless scaling isn’t linear, it’s significantly longer than projected. Quite frustrating combined with no rewards. Stocking this out but it’s not easy to see the light at this point

For those suggesting reading the website for answers, I argue back with: if the website actually did a decent job of explaining, there would be much less question repetition here. It may make sense to people that already know the answe, but to newcomers it is very vague in many regards.

The red line on the graph is the average of the entire graph, not of the 5nd. The graph covers about 23-24 days worth of shifts.

[qrnode]

Kano, What do the 3 green bullets in the top left corner of kano.is indicate? I noticed the bottom one was red briefly yesterday. Thank you,

[rifleman74]

Decentralization is great and all but it seems some of the smaller pools need to join forces..  we have slid back down to 40PH
If we could get a couple other small pools to join Kano and get to 100PH that might make things happier for everyone going into 2018.

I rather bring this up now than have people say the same thing in 6 months with 'should of's, could of's' attached to the same ideas.

Letting small pools die slowly hurts everyone involved as probably half go to larger evil pools and less and less of the mining pie stay with the good guys.

Agreed, need to stick together nad get back up to that 100PH level.

[akadamson]

Kano, What do the 3 green bullets in the top left corner of kano.is indicate? I noticed the bottom one was red briefly yesterday. Thank you,

my guess is they match up with the 3 lines next to them on the right?

[Par Avion]

Dang, Kano pool really really takes some patience

It's been 12 days, and my ramp is up at 6.10av outta 13.5, so it takes more than 16 days as well

Definitely agree. Feeling a bit mislead right now as I’m a week in and not even a third of the way. Unless scaling isn’t linear, it’s significantly longer than projected. Quite frustrating combined with no rewards. Stocking this out but it’s not easy to see the light at this point

For those suggesting reading the website for answers, I argue back with: if the website actually did a decent job of explaining, there would be much less question repetition here. It may make sense to people that already know the answe, but to newcomers it is very vague in many regards.

The red line on the graph is the average of the entire graph, not of the 5nd. The graph covers about 23-24 days worth of shifts.

Fair enough, makes a LOT more sense.

 So then, there is no way to actively monitor ones current ramp levels.

[Waztim]

Come On Block!! Been awhile now.... Let's do this.... somebody break out a Anime Princess, I just offered up two NY Strip Steaks with steamed Green Beans!! Come On Block!! Oh and MINE ON WITH KANO-SAN, the Best Bitcoin Mining Pool on EARTH!!BTCBTCBTC

[HagssFIN]

Hey btw, any word from Canaan if they would support Kano pool with some AvalonMiner 821 units for a give-away competition like with they have done previous generation AvalonMiners?  

[Yrth]

Dang, Kano pool really really takes some patience

It's been 12 days, and my ramp is up at 6.10av outta 13.5, so it takes more than 16 days as well

Definitely agree. Feeling a bit mislead right now as I’m a week in and not even a third of the way. Unless scaling isn’t linear, it’s significantly longer than projected. Quite frustrating combined with no rewards. Stocking this out but it’s not easy to see the light at this point

For those suggesting reading the website for answers, I argue back with: if the website actually did a decent job of explaining, there would be much less question repetition here. It may make sense to people that already know the answe, but to newcomers it is very vague in many regards.

The red line on the graph is the average of the entire graph, not of the 5nd. The graph covers about 23-24 days worth of shifts.

Fair enough, makes a LOT more sense.

 So then, there is no way to actively monitor ones current ramp levels.

No quick and easy way. The red shaded area of the area of the graph is the 5nd as of the last payout.

You can get the information from the https://kano.is/index.php?k=shifts page. The column Average H/s is your average during each shift. If you added up all the shifts during the last 5nd (https://kano.is/index.php?k=payout) worth of shifts you could approximate it.

The one thing I love about this pool, is that all the info is out there and not hidden. If there's not an easy link to give you the answer, most of the raw data is somewhere on the site and you can usually figure out the answer from there.

[clgrissom3]

Dang, Kano pool really really takes some patience

It's been 12 days, and my ramp is up at 6.10av outta 13.5, so it takes more than 16 days as well

Definitely agree. Feeling a bit mislead right now as I’m a week in and not even a third of the way. Unless scaling isn’t linear, it’s significantly longer than projected. Quite frustrating combined with no rewards. Stocking this out but it’s not easy to see the light at this point

For those suggesting reading the website for answers, I argue back with: if the website actually did a decent job of explaining, there would be much less question repetition here. It may make sense to people that already know the answe, but to newcomers it is very vague in many regards.

The red line on the graph is the average of the entire graph, not of the 5nd. The graph covers about 23-24 days worth of shifts.

Fair enough, makes a LOT more sense.

 So then, there is no way to actively monitor ones current ramp levels.

Actually, if you think about it there is.  Kano posts the current 5Nd time on the Help/Payouts page every day.  Right now it says "The pool hash rate for the last day is roughly 41.08PHs which means the 5Nd 'ramp' is roughly 15days 18hrs."

So, if you have been here for 8 days you are half way through and you have 8 days to go.  If 5Nd estimate changes drastically, just add or subtract from your remaining days and you can estimate how long you have.

Always remember that you will get your full 5Nd payouts over the entire 5Nd so you don't lose anything.  The "Ramp" is a good thing and not something to despise.

[Yrth]

Always remember that you will get your full 5Nd payouts over the entire 5Nd so you don't lose anything.  The "Ramp" is a good thing and not something to despise.

I agree. But it is a much tougher nut to swallow for the new folks. Back when I joined a couple years ago, the 5nd was only like 36 hours, so a much easier pill to swallow.

It really is a great deterrent to pool hoppers though. Though they are still rewarded for all the work they contribute, by spreading it out over 5nd worth of shifts it keeps them from trying to capitalize on short term runs of luck and take rewards out of the pockets of the long term miners.