[Payout Updates] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation

[Phinnaeus Gage]

What an absolute cluster eff.  On the bright side, it's a testament to how far along bitcoin has come since last year that the price hasn't fallen off a cliff.

You aren't looking upside down enough...

Huh?

I, too, sometimes mess up when posting while under the influence of Peter Gabriel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ2hY6Fetw0

I don't even know myself. I only know that I'm still an employee.

hmmm... guys... why would you trust a company that resorts to child labor?

(inquiring again, on purpose)

https://mtgox.com/terms_of_service

they are at least 18 years of age and have the full capacity to accept these Terms and enter into a transaction resulting on the Platform

Is it safe to assume that Zhou Tong did not have an account at Mt Gox?

~Bruno~

Ehhhh, as far as I know Zhoutong ages as well. And as far as I know he's already 18 years old.

Nah! Still 17, according to the below. That'll make him about 16 if he or his company traded on Mt Gox.

http://www.crunchbase.com/person/zhou-tong/revisions

[Phinnaeus Gage]

However, this will result in $200,000 additional loss for Bitcoinica, and I don't think they will do that.

When push comes to shove(l) to Bitcoiners who "Mine for Dollars", you simply tap the big rigs like Tihan Seale, Tim Draper and Jack Jolley (treasurer at Microsoft). Otherwise, an old seasteading term comes to mind: Fix the rig, or see the brig. (Google that phrase using quotes. You'll be taken aback of what you'll find.)

~Bruno~

Somehow I suspect that the seed funding which CoinLab received from the Draper VC group can't just be pulled out of that project to cover Bitcoinica losses - and why would you, even if you could, when you'd likely just be throwing good money after bad for no benefit.  Tihan specifically said that the investments he has facilitated in other Bitcoin businesses are unrelated to Bitcoinica and I'd be utterly surprised if that was not the case.  Venture capitalists and angel investors don't survive long without knowing the difference between when further investment in a business is worthwhile and when to cut their losses.

Hence the rub!

~Bruno~

[LoupGaroux]

We can only hope this rub has the proverbial Happy Ending. I suspect, as it has now gone up to the level of Big Money Players, and Big Money could hardly be expected to worry about the outrage for a couple of hunny K lost because of some little tech glitch or security oversight. They will just laugh it off, and continue to gobble up any promising tech that comes out of this world.

Looks like our baby is getting all grown up... she is getting courted by the heavy hitters, and her ethical cherry has been popped repeatedly.

[Transisto]

I herein give Bitcoinica the right to to keep 15 of my imprisoned BTC to pay someone to fix and update their website with current status ... and while at it have a valid certificate.

I ask everyone to contribute, Genjix need a day off !
 He's doing all of this without a pay from what I read.

[dancingnancy]

We have been waiting patiently behind the scenes for a resolution to this issue, which at this stage seems not to be getting any better. We were official funding partners for Bitcoinica. Yet, we have not received a single communication from them in weeks, even though we have filled the claims form like everyone else (we shouldn't need to, they know who we are. Our identity, emails, gpg keys et al are of public knowledge).

At this stage, we are unfortunately seriously considering legal action against the parties involved. Our company's retained legal counsel is in the UK which willl serve to approach the situation with Bitcoin Consultancy if needs be.

We are in the process of selecting a law firm in New Zealand and Australia to litigate the partnership, as well as the USA to hand requests for discoveries regarding these silent investors on the firm.

We will like to publicly invite anybody having a significant balance ( > USD 1,000 or equivalent) to join forces with us. We will bear the cost of the initial process, and at completion, used part of the recovered funds to proportionally pay the legal bill as commonly done by class action lawsuits.

Anyone interested, please send me a private message in the forum.

Thank you,

Roberto Gutierrez
General Manager
aurumxchange.com

What do you hope to bring in minus lawyer fees?  I have > $1000 in BTC there but I rather not jump the gun and have this drag out another 6 months then have to pay lawyers just to get back like $200 USD in the end.

[dancingnancy]

We have been waiting patiently behind the scenes for a resolution to this issue, which at this stage seems not to be getting any better. We were official funding partners for Bitcoinica. Yet, we have not received a single communication from them in weeks, even though we have filled the claims form like everyone else (we shouldn't need to, they know who we are. Our identity, emails, gpg keys et al are of public knowledge).

At this stage, we are unfortunately seriously considering legal action against the parties involved. Our company's retained legal counsel is in the UK which willl serve to approach the situation with Bitcoin Consultancy if needs be.

We are in the process of selecting a law firm in New Zealand and Australia to litigate the partnership, as well as the USA to hand requests for discoveries regarding these silent investors on the firm.

We will like to publicly invite anybody having a significant balance ( > USD 1,000 or equivalent) to join forces with us. We will bear the cost of the initial process, and at completion, used part of the recovered funds to proportionally pay the legal bill as commonly done by class action lawsuits.

Anyone interested, please send me a private message in the forum.

Thank you,

Roberto Gutierrez
General Manager
aurumxchange.com

What do you hope to bring in minus lawyer fees?  I have > $1000 in BTC there but I rather not jump the gun and have this drag out another 6 months then have to pay lawyers just to get back like $200 USD in the end.

Bitcoinica will not want this either, so they will respond maybe with some useful information. If they do not, then its clear that legal action should be taken.

Jesus Christ, this is getting worse than the feeling you get when leaving the casino dead broke

[dopamine]

this is bad business I don't think bitcoinica will survive if they can't keep us updated, why would I trust them if they can't even give us a fucking update...

[Vladimir]

Any company director owes fiduciary duty to his shareholders to attempt recovering lost money. If no amicable way available, legal route, unfortunately, is the only method left.

At the very least once legal papers are served, Bitcoinica hopefully will have more clarity on how much exactly they need to pay and to whom.

[Vladimir]

this is bad business I don't think bitcoinica will survive if they can't keep us updated, why would I trust them if they can't even give us a fucking update...

Their modus operandi and Occam's razor would suggest that Bitcoinica has no plans to stay in biz.

[Maria]

I have 6,325 BTC and 53,244.35 USD in bitcoinica. I will join forces with AurumXchange. I want MTGOX CODES for each TODAY or I will prosecute to the full extent of the law.

Maria.

[BinaryMage]

I have 6,325 BTC and 53,244.35 USD in bitcoinica. I will join forces with AurumXchange. I want MTGOX CODES for each TODAY or I will prosecute to the full extent of the law.

Maria.

Dang, that's no fun. Good luck...

[dopamine]

You think they would be able to at least cross reference the bitcoin deposit #XXXXX and return everything and forget about 80 percent...

[repentance]

Bitcoinica will not want this either, so they will respond maybe with some useful information. If they do not, then its clear that legal action should be taken.

Whether group litigation is the most appropriate form of legal action depends on whether there are any "deep pockets" plaintiffs.  If there is no insurance company involved and the company has no substantial assets, it's not generally a cost effective way to recover money.  Even when exemplary damages are awarded, the awards tend to be low - from memory, I think the largest amount of exemplary damages by an NZ court was under $100,000.  And even when costs are awarded, it isn't actual costs but a proportion of them as determined by a formula used by the court.

Issuing Statutory Demands may be a cheaper and quicker alternative.  From the time a Statutory Demand is issued, they have 10 working days to dispute the debt or 15 working days to pay the debt after which the company is deemed insolvent and creditors can apply to the court for the company to be placed in liquidation.  The company has only 14 days to file notice of intention to defend the liquidation.  If the company's defence fails or they don't file one, the court appoints a liquidator to take control of the company and ensure creditors are paid as required by law. Unsecured creditors are at the bottom of the list when it comes to receiving payment, though.

[repentance]

You quoted me incorrectly. 

My apologies.  I hate how the forum nests quotes by default.  Fixed now.

[CleverMiner]

Sorry to interrupt,
I bet folks around here are clever enough to figure out ways to solve this outside regular court systems.

Given the lack of respect they have for the affected people,
Are there any assets that could be targeted or temporarily withed that could accelerate the pace of the conflict resolution ?

If they can't see any profit out of this mess at least they'll foresee an hedging strategy.

[muyuu]

I have 6,325 BTC and 53,244.35 USD in bitcoinica. I will join forces with AurumXchange. I want MTGOX CODES for each TODAY or I will prosecute to the full extent of the law.

Maria.

Any open positions?

[zhoutong]

I have 6,325 BTC and 53,244.35 USD in bitcoinica. I will join forces with AurumXchange. I want MTGOX CODES for each TODAY or I will prosecute to the full extent of the law.

Maria.

Just exchanged 3,000 BTC. Everything is working smooth now. Makes me wonder, Why MTGOX does not offer instant LR payouts? Great Job www.CoinExchanger.com

Maria.

Good luck.

PS. I can't seem to locate your claim. Where should they send the money to?

[zhoutong]

Good News:

I have found that Bitcoinica has already identified more than half of the claimed amount as "accurate". Most likely refunding process will start soon.

It's also important to note that they started from high-value accounts, which means that it may take more time to verify the smaller value accounts (much larger number of accounts for the other 50%).

[ThePok]

Iam on the upper site with 300 btc?

[Mushoz]

Please refrain from legal action just a little while longer. There are too many drawbacks to legal action at the moment, we should only use it as a last resort. I still trust Zhoutong, and as long as he's still giving meaningful updates that it's going the right way, it's best to wait.

Legal action:
-Will destroy the company
-Cost quite a bit, giving us less
-The stance taken towards BTC is unclear. We're not sure we will ever get any BTC back this way.



Zhoutong please tell Genjix (Or perhaps Genjix is reading this himself) to post _at least_ daily:

-The current ETA to the first payouts
-Number or percentage of accurate claims


We want to see progress being made, and numbers will tell us just that. It shouldn't take you more than 5 minutes each day, but could potentially save you thousands or perhaps even tens of thousands dollars of legal costs. Stop being incompetent and start acting!