NastyFans: The Bitcoin Enthusiast Fan Club (est. 2012)

[smooth]

I recently received my Nasty Mining silver coin. It is beautiful. Thank you very much.

But I am really at a loss as to what it can do for me. Do I mine to the address of the coin? If so, how do I spend or transfer Bitcoin credited to the coin? Etc.?

I really do not know or understand these things at the moment.

Thanks again.

To elaborate on what OgNasty explained, the purpose of the coin is to serve as a long term investment and "cold storage" vehicle. Any donations from nasty fans will go to the coin automatically, increasing its value over time. You can send more bitcoins there, but they should be coins you are prepared to keep untouched ("in cold storage") for the long term.

[1714792252]

1714792252

[1714792252]

1714792252

[Squeaker]

am thinking of getting one... might use the address for a public tip jar, too... anything else where I might get some surprise income that I wasn't planning on getting...

=squeak=

[ManeBjorn]

They are great coins.  I have two and love them.
The tip jar address is a cool idea too.

am thinking of getting one... might use the address for a public tip jar, too... anything else where I might get some surprise income that I wasn't planning on getting...

=squeak=

[nonnakip]

I develop a proxy for NastyPool P2Pool node. The proxy will protect the P2Pool node against DOS attacks. Now I do tests. For my cgminer it looks good. But maybe other people can help test also?

To test the proxy change your miner to connect to port 9334 instead of 9332. Your miner should not notice any difference. If you do have any problems please report them and change your miner back to port 9332 until the problems are solved.

[ManeBjorn]

Cool I will do it later.
Thanks for the hard work nonnakip.

I develop a proxy for NastyPool P2Pool node. The proxy will protect the P2Pool node against DOS attacks. Now I do tests. For my cgminer it looks good. But maybe other people can help test also?

To test the proxy change your miner to connect to port 9334 instead of 9332. Your miner should not notice any difference. If you do have any problems please report them and change your miner back to port 9332 until the problems are solved.

[nonnakip]

To test the proxy change your miner to connect to port 9334 instead of 9332.

A new test version of proxy is installed. If you try it and experience ANY problems please report them to me.

Soon all miners will be forced to use proxy so it is better to try it now and make sure it works with your miner. It is very easy to try it. This is a important development to improve NastyPool.

[ManeBjorn]

So far no issues it connects fine.

To test the proxy change your miner to connect to port 9334 instead of 9332.

A new test version of proxy is installed. If you try it and experience ANY problems please report them to me.

Soon all miners will be forced to use proxy so it is better to try it now and make sure it works with your miner. It is very easy to try it. This is a important development to improve NastyPool.

[smoothie]

I have recently got caught up (at least some) on this thread and NastyFans/NastyMining etc.

I do have a couple of questions that Ognasty or someone else who is better versed than me on the matter could answer:

1. What are the current total of BTCitcoin debt/liabilities of Nastfans/Nastymining?

2. What is the plan to pay off that debt over time? (reason I ask this is that if Bitcoin has another 10x jump the liabilities may be too far gone to actually pay off in bitcoin terms).

3. If the last part of #2 happens, what is the plan? How do you service the debt?

Thank you in advance for the information.

Aloha

[OgNasty]

I have recently got caught up (at least some) on this thread and NastyFans/NastyMining etc.

I do have a couple of questions that Ognasty or someone else who is better versed than me on the matter could answer:

1. What are the current total of BTCitcoin debt/liabilities of Nastfans/Nastymining?

2. What is the plan to pay off that debt over time? (reason I ask this is that if Bitcoin has another 10x jump the liabilities may be too far gone to actually pay off in bitcoin terms).

3. If the last part of #2 happens, what is the plan? How do you service the debt?

Thank you in advance for the information.

Aloha

1.  This info in the the OP.  NastyMining currently owes 289 BTC (130 BTC already repaid) and we are still awaiting 90% of the ordered hashrate.

2.  Here are some recent comments I made on the debt situation:

The fact is that our debt has increased far faster than I had imagined at the time.  However, I structured our debt so that this would never be a killer of the operation.  In the loan it says that 25% of our mined income will go to debt....  The debt we hold is the best debt you can have in the world.  It is 0% debt with no timely required payments.  Basically, if we wanted, we could take 100 years to pay back this debt and it would be perfectly within our agreement.  That being said, I am the last lender to be repaid and do have a personal interest in this debt being repaid while I am still alive.

3.  Servicing the debt is easy, as mentioned above.  This debt will never crush the organization or bring it to a standstill.  However, without some concessions by the debt holders, this debt will take an extremely long time to repay.  In order to turn this into a positive thing, I have discussed with nonnakip, a plan to allow for a debt market.  This will allow debt to be traded back and forth, which will enable original debt holders to sell and receive BTC as well as allowing others to purchase debt, perhaps at a discount, to be made whole later.

I would also like to add that I am the largest single debt holder, and I would be open to reducing the BTC amount owed if an agreement could be reached with all debt holders across the board.

[smoothie]

I have recently got caught up (at least some) on this thread and NastyFans/NastyMining etc.

I do have a couple of questions that Ognasty or someone else who is better versed than me on the matter could answer:

1. What are the current total of BTCitcoin debt/liabilities of Nastfans/Nastymining?

2. What is the plan to pay off that debt over time? (reason I ask this is that if Bitcoin has another 10x jump the liabilities may be too far gone to actually pay off in bitcoin terms).

3. If the last part of #2 happens, what is the plan? How do you service the debt?

Thank you in advance for the information.

Aloha

1.  This info in the the OP.  NastyMining currently owes 289 BTC and we are still awaiting 90% of the ordered hashrate.

2.  Here are some recent comments I made on the debt situation:

The fact is that our debt has increased far faster than I had imagined at the time.  However, I structured our debt so that this would never be a killer of the operation.  In the loan it says that 25% of our mined income will go to debt....  The debt we hold is the best debt you can have in the world.  It is 0% debt with no timely required payments.  Basically, if we wanted, we could take 100 years to pay back this debt and it would be perfectly within our agreement.  That being said, I am the last lender to be repaid and do have a personal interest in this debt being repaid while I am still alive.

3.  Servicing the debt is easy, as mentioned above.  This debt will never crush the organization or bring it to a standstill.  However, without some concessions by the debt holders, this debt will take an extremely long time to repay.  In order to turn this into a positive thing, I have discussed with nonnakip, a plan to allow for a debt market.  This will allow debt to be traded back and forth, which will enable original debt holders to sell and receive BTC as well as allowing others to purchase debt, perhaps at a discount, to be made whole later.

I would also like to add that I am the largest single debt holder, and I would be open to reducing the BTC amount owed if an agreement could be reached with all debt holders across the board.

Got it. Thank you for your clear response.

[Bronstad]

2.  Here are some recent comments I made on the debt situation:

The fact is that our debt has increased far faster than I had imagined at the time.  However, I structured our debt so that this would never be a killer of the operation.  In the loan it says that 25% of our mined income will go to debt....  The debt we hold is the best debt you can have in the world.  It is 0% debt with no timely required payments.  Basically, if we wanted, we could take 100 years to pay back this debt and it would be perfectly within our agreement.  That being said, I am the last lender to be repaid and do have a personal interest in this debt being repaid while I am still alive.

3.  Servicing the debt is easy, as mentioned above.  This debt will never crush the organization or bring it to a standstill.  However, without some concessions by the debt holders, this debt will take an extremely long time to repay.  In order to turn this into a positive thing, I have discussed with nonnakip, a plan to allow for a debt market.  This will allow debt to be traded back and forth, which will enable original debt holders to sell and receive BTC as well as allowing others to purchase debt, perhaps at a discount, to be made whole later.

I would also like to add that I am the largest single debt holder, and I would be open to reducing the BTC amount owed if an agreement could be reached with all debt holders across the board.

Do you plan on taking out more loans in the future? Saying you can take 100 years to pay back, or saying you will have to ask the debt holders to "make some concessions" seems kind of counterproductive. If NastyMining will need to purchase the next gen miners you would think these kinds of statements (however true) will sour some on the idea.

I suppose more information on this debt market would be interesting to read. But in the end if the person who loaned NastyMining 20 BTC doesn't get back their initial investment of 20 BTC, I can't imagine future loans will be so easy to receive.

[OgNasty]

Do you plan on taking out more loans in the future?

It would be great if we never needed another loan.

Saying you can take 100 years to pay back, or saying you will have to ask the debt holders to "make some concessions" seems kind of counterproductive. If NastyMining will need to purchase the next gen miners you would think these kinds of statements (however true) will sour some on the idea.

I have no intent to mislead anyone.  I will continue to be honest about the situation and present things as they are and not how I would like them to appear.  With the rise in BTC, lenders who have been paid back thus far have received nearly 10x the amount lended in USD, which the lended funds were converted to upon receipt.  As the largest lender, I would much rather see everyone accept less in BTC across the board so that we can all realize USD gains quickly as opposed to having to wait possibly years and deal with uncertainty.  I would think that most lenders would agree, but I have no intention of forcing people to accept less than the BTC amount lended, even if continuing to wait is not in anyone's best interests.

I suppose more information on this debt market would be interesting to read. But in the end if the person who loaned NastyMining 20 BTC doesn't get back their initial investment of 20 BTC, I can't imagine future loans will be so easy to receive.

It is just a thought at the moment, but the thinking is pretty simple.  Lenders would receive 100 NastyCredits per BTC owed.  The NastyCredits would be bought back with 25% of the mined coins at 0.01 BTC each, starting with the oldest credits issued.  Lenders would be able to sell their NastyCredits or hold them until they receive the full BTC lended.  This wouldn't alter our current agreements at all and would add the ability for lenders to resell debt, as well as receive smaller payouts instead of waiting for the entire loan balance to be repaid at once.  It would also establish a debt discount that would price in any future debt offerings using the free market as well as keep us operating with lended funds receiving 0% interest and give debt investors a new way to realize potential BTC gains.

[Bronstad]

I have no intent to mislead anyone.  I will continue to be honest about the situation and present things as they are and not how I would like them to appear.  With the rise in BTC, lenders who have been paid back thus far have received nearly 10x the amount lended in USD, which the lended funds were converted to upon receipt.  As the largest lender, I would much rather see everyone accept less in BTC across the board so that we can all realize USD gains quickly as opposed to having to wait possibly years and deal with uncertainty.  I would think that most lenders would agree, but I have no intention of forcing people to accept less than the BTC amount lended, even if continuing to wait is not in anyone's best interests.

Thanks for clarifying. As a fan, I want to see NastyMining succeed for many years to come. My concern was with the continued hashrate improvement, as bigger weekly donations are my ultimate, albeit greedy, goals. I too hope no more loans are needed. I worry that another poll will need to be made to re-increase the amount pointed at debt repayment if it starts to take too long. But also want to see the hash rate continue to increase as time goes on.

The only thing that rubs me the wrong way with your explanations is bringing in the USD conversion rate. What the conversion is now, compared to when the loan was made should have no bearing on anything. As I doubt you would double the amount of BTC returned to them if the conversion rate was to drop to $50/BTC. But as you mentioned you have no intention of forcing people to accept less BTC then lent, so I hope the lenders are still feeling okay with their involvement.

[OgNasty]

I worry that another poll will need to be made to re-increase the amount pointed at debt repayment if it starts to take too long.

That won't happen.  If anything, we've been paying way over the 25% of mined coins that were agreed.  When an automated system gets put in place, it will only pay 25% of mined coins.  Any coins generated from minted seats, donations, or the pool, will be distributed normally so that NastyMining can rebuild BTC holdings.

The only thing that rubs me the wrong way with your explanations is bringing in the USD conversion rate. What the conversion is now, compared to when the loan was made should have no bearing on anything. As I doubt you would double the amount of BTC returned to them if the conversion rate was to drop to $50/BTC. But as you mentioned you have no intention of forcing people to accept less BTC then lent, so I hope the lenders are still feeling okay with their involvement.

The USD conversion rate very much exists.  Fact is, we took lended funds and dumped them into orders denominated in USD.  That very much has a bearing on things.  For example, there isn't a legal entity on the planet that would recognize the amount lended in BTC and not USD.  As the largest lender to the organization, I take that into account.  Considering the amount of funds that I lended were so much lower in value than what I am owed today, I would happily accept much less in order to be repaid and see a substantial profit in USD.  I didn't lend funds to NastyMining at 0% interest to make 10x the fiat value, I lended to help the organization.  Perhaps I am alone in this thinking, which is why I am not forcing anything.  However, every time this comes up I will state that I am the largest lender and am willing to take a significant reduction in BTC owed in order to accelerate the payback.  Perhaps some of the other lenders will start feeling as I do and talks can begin on how to handle this issue in a way that satisfies everyone's best interests.

Your example of the BTC drop isn't as drastic as the real situation.  I believe that if we were lended BTC at $100 and the price fell to $10 after orders had already been placed, something would have been done to try and make the situation right.  That is part of what makes this organization so great.  We aren't out to screw people like others who offered fixed MH/s rate bonds when I started this.  Remember that there was a time when people were on the fence whether to buy a NastyFans seat or a 1MH/s fixed rate bond for the same price.  It has always been good faith that kept this organization alive, and I don't believe I've ever done anything to damage that faith.  My opinions about the debt are just that, my opinions.  At no point have I ever made any proposal or tried to intimidate anyone into accepting less than was promised.  I simply think that if everyone looked at the risks/rewards, they might be willing to accept less in order to accelerate the repayment process and I have no qualms about being open and honest about the risk or delay in waiting for full repayment.  I am also not suggesting that the debt be repaid according to the USD rate at the time it was lended.  I am merely stating that an agreement with all lenders on a reduced BTC amount would allow everyone to see gains in USD much faster.  

It should also be noted that my opinions on this matter are being solicited, and I am not proposing any change to the current repayment of debt.

[Squeaker]

Looking at the donations page, I see a couple entries of what appears to be doubled entries...

Block #311485, and #311660...

Each have their regular entry as normal, and are matched by an additional entry for each, with the same timestamp, and the same BTC amount, but no block listed...

Would you guys mind going in and checking out to see that donations are being accurately reflected, and what the cause of those apparent duplicated entries resulted from?

=squeak=

[OgNasty]

Looking at the donations page, I see a couple entries of what appears to be doubled entries...

Block #311485, and #311660...

Each have their regular entry as normal, and are matched by an additional entry for each, with the same timestamp, and the same BTC amount, but no block listed...

Would you guys mind going in and checking out to see that donations are being accurately reflected, and what the cause of those apparent duplicated entries resulted from?

=squeak=

I'm guessing it has something to do with the new NastyPool proxy testing.  Thanks for reporting.

[Squeaker]

I'm guessing it has something to do with the new NastyPool proxy testing.  Thanks for reporting.

No prob.

=squeak=

[nonnakip]

Looking at the donations page, I see a couple entries of what appears to be doubled entries...

Thank you for reporting. Yes these were double entries. One of the servers uses bitcoind in a container to handle monitoring of incoming donations. That bitcoind had no more memory allowed and started returning unexpected results. This caused display error.

I allocated more memory for that container. But bitcoind is getting big to use for such a trivial task. I maybe change how I monitor the donation address. Although I like providing Bitcoin nodes and blockchain copies to help the Bitcoin network.

[nonnakip]

Distribution 312461 is complete. nastyfans thanks the donators.

[ManeBjorn]

So far no problems on port 9334.
I just wanted to give you an update.

I develop a proxy for NastyPool P2Pool node. The proxy will protect the P2Pool node against DOS attacks. Now I do tests. For my cgminer it looks good. But maybe other people can help test also?

To test the proxy change your miner to connect to port 9334 instead of 9332. Your miner should not notice any difference. If you do have any problems please report them and change your miner back to port 9332 until the problems are solved.