ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[Lohoris]

I'm still interested to know if FC still has a solomining goal of 10% ...

When I was investing into this company ~ 1 year ago, it was publicly known that ASICminer's goal is to maintain at least 10% of global hashrate, so i did some calculations and bought shares. I was investing into mining company which goal was to mine bitcoins. I was not investing into chip manufacture which will be selling chips for fiat after one year. But yeah ... I am now in huge 75% loss, no point of selling now. I feel quite fucked by ASICminer.

If people were willing to buy those chips for more BTC than the expected amount the chip was going to mine in its lifetime, obviously selling them was a great choice.

[1715034400]

1715034400

[1715034400]

1715034400

[1715034400]

1715034400

[1715034400]

1715034400

[1715034400]

1715034400

[E f f e c T]

If there is anyone here who is looking to sell a large amount of shares via havelock transfer please PM me. Escrow only. No exceptions.

[novusordo]

It would make sense for AM to offer Rockminer a discount for bulk chip purchases. This would make sense for any large buyer.

Anything other than that simply isn't going to happen. Rockxie will already benefit by an indirect "discount" through getting dividends from the sales Rockminer generates for AM. If you bought AM equipment as a shareholder, you got this "discount" too, although it was probably much smaller.

[Jutarul]

It would make sense for AM to offer Rockminer a discount for bulk chip purchases. This would make sense for any large buyer.

Anything other than that simply isn't going to happen. Rockxie will already benefit by an indirect "discount" through getting dividends from the sales Rockminer generates for AM. If you bought AM equipment as a shareholder, you got this "discount" too, although it was probably much smaller.

I sympathize with the assessment that reliable partners should get good prices. However, the discount argument is a fallacy - it follows the pattern to privatize profits and to socialize costs. Here the "society" is the overall group of shareholders. Actions like that are only justifiable if you can indicate certain problems like the tragedy of the commons.

[necro_nemesis]

Yes, well, it doesn't apply here. Again: What incentive does Friedcat have to keep the stock price high?

Simple 236,038 shares that would have far greater value than what the company earns this one round. In an environment where shareholder confidence is high he can sell shares at multiples of earnings without concern for effecting the price of the stock. Happens everyday on the market as declared insider trades.

When it was low or as it is could be perceived as low he could also offer to buy back shares if he wanted to do away with the investors, but he hasn't done that.

My thoughts, why friedcat doesn't care about the share price (which isn't bad)

Bitfountain's total number of shares is simply too high to be sold at a given market price. Selling even 1% of the shares would completely crash the market. During the 0.25 period there's been an especially low volume. Why would Friedcat keep the price up when he isn't even certain he'll be able to deliver gen 3 (which was uncertain back then).
He also stated that he doesn't like to work for others and prefers to work for himself, so he doesn't intend to sell the shares. Simple as that. This way, by doing a good work, he and his team ("Bitfountain") get 2/3 of everything that's considered profit. If they sold all their shares (which would be very very difficult due to the market depth), they'd have no reason to keep up the good work because they'd earn nothing. But by retaining 2/3 of the shares, they get the majority of the income while having the incentive to continue performing well. I believe it generates more income to continually do decent business, than dumping all your shares - which, again, is rather difficult.

A "normal" company would do as you describe. But this is Bitcoin land. It is unregulated, the rules are gray at best, everything can happen. We're basically at FC's mercy. But he has proven himself to be trustworthy, a good businessman and engineer. And this is more than you get at, say, 90% of Bitcoin companies. It simply is the most profitable thing for him to just keep up the good work. The stock price doesn't matter to him. If he wanted to do a final big scam (which I highly doubt, but of course can't guarantee it won't happen), he'd fabricate some awesome news or collect money for pre-orders. No one would suspect anything due to his high trustworthyness. But even that wouldn't be wise, since the market depth would - again - be too low to really profit him. And he'd lose all his potential future income. Again, simply keep up the good work is the way to go.
And I, for one, am not concerned, he'll pull off something bad, since I believe him to be an honest person. But remember, this is no investment/trading advice and I can't be held accountable.

tl;dr: He simply has no reason to care for the share price. Keeping the share price up or pulling of a scam would be incredibly stupid, both profit-wise and  future-business-wise

Ok we're getting into arguments which rely on exceptional circumstances that in your own words are not normal. Sit back and think for a moment why this time; this one extraordinary time in history, thing's are justifiably different.

I'd be more willing to accept the situation as it stands if there were investment information coming out but all we see is page upon page of shareholder speculation and not one simple answer. How much effort is it really to address shareholder's concerns regarding recent events.

[minerpumpkin]

Yes, well, it doesn't apply here. Again: What incentive does Friedcat have to keep the stock price high?

Simple 236,038 shares that would have far greater value than what the company earns this one round. In an environment where shareholder confidence is high he can sell shares at multiples of earnings without concern for effecting the price of the stock. Happens everyday on the market as declared insider trades.

When it was low or as it is could be perceived as low he could also offer to buy back shares if he wanted to do away with the investors, but he hasn't done that.

My thoughts, why friedcat doesn't care about the share price (which isn't bad)

Bitfountain's total number of shares is simply too high to be sold at a given market price. Selling even 1% of the shares would completely crash the market. During the 0.25 period there's been an especially low volume. Why would Friedcat keep the price up when he isn't even certain he'll be able to deliver gen 3 (which was uncertain back then).
He also stated that he doesn't like to work for others and prefers to work for himself, so he doesn't intend to sell the shares. Simple as that. This way, by doing a good work, he and his team ("Bitfountain") get 2/3 of everything that's considered profit. If they sold all their shares (which would be very very difficult due to the market depth), they'd have no reason to keep up the good work because they'd earn nothing. But by retaining 2/3 of the shares, they get the majority of the income while having the incentive to continue performing well. I believe it generates more income to continually do decent business, than dumping all your shares - which, again, is rather difficult.

A "normal" company would do as you describe. But this is Bitcoin land. It is unregulated, the rules are gray at best, everything can happen. We're basically at FC's mercy. But he has proven himself to be trustworthy, a good businessman and engineer. And this is more than you get at, say, 90% of Bitcoin companies. It simply is the most profitable thing for him to just keep up the good work. The stock price doesn't matter to him. If he wanted to do a final big scam (which I highly doubt, but of course can't guarantee it won't happen), he'd fabricate some awesome news or collect money for pre-orders. No one would suspect anything due to his high trustworthyness. But even that wouldn't be wise, since the market depth would - again - be too low to really profit him. And he'd lose all his potential future income. Again, simply keep up the good work is the way to go.
And I, for one, am not concerned, he'll pull off something bad, since I believe him to be an honest person. But remember, this is no investment/trading advice and I can't be held accountable.

tl;dr: He simply has no reason to care for the share price. Keeping the share price up or pulling of a scam would be incredibly stupid, both profit-wise and  future-business-wise

Ok we're getting into arguments which rely on exceptional circumstances that in your own words are not normal. Sit back and think for a moment why this time; this one extraordinary time in history, thing's are justifiably different.

Because Bitcoin stock exchanges aren't regulated/supervised and the market depth is somewhat shallow. Not a justification, just an explanation.

[necro_nemesis]

I appreciate the explanation. 

[sngwinner]

Yes, well, it doesn't apply here. Again: What incentive does Friedcat have to keep the stock price high?

Simple 236,038 shares that would have far greater value than what the company earns this one round. In an environment where shareholder confidence is high he can sell shares at multiples of earnings without concern for effecting the price of the stock. Happens everyday on the market as declared insider trades.

When it was low or as it is could be perceived as low he could also offer to buy back shares if he wanted to do away with the investors, but he hasn't done that.

My thoughts, why friedcat doesn't care about the share price (which isn't bad)

Bitfountain's total number of shares is simply too high to be sold at a given market price. Selling even 1% of the shares would completely crash the market. During the 0.25 period there's been an especially low volume. Why would Friedcat keep the price up when he isn't even certain he'll be able to deliver gen 3 (which was uncertain back then).
He also stated that he doesn't like to work for others and prefers to work for himself, so he doesn't intend to sell the shares. Simple as that. This way, by doing a good work, he and his team ("Bitfountain") get 2/3 of everything that's considered profit. If they sold all their shares (which would be very very difficult due to the market depth), they'd have no reason to keep up the good work because they'd earn nothing. But by retaining 2/3 of the shares, they get the majority of the income while having the incentive to continue performing well. I believe it generates more income to continually do decent business, than dumping all your shares - which, again, is rather difficult.

A "normal" company would do as you describe. But this is Bitcoin land. It is unregulated, the rules are gray at best, everything can happen. We're basically at FC's mercy. But he has proven himself to be trustworthy, a good businessman and engineer. And this is more than you get at, say, 90% of Bitcoin companies. It simply is the most profitable thing for him to just keep up the good work. The stock price doesn't matter to him. If he wanted to do a final big scam (which I highly doubt, but of course can't guarantee it won't happen), he'd fabricate some awesome news or collect money for pre-orders. No one would suspect anything due to his high trustworthyness. But even that wouldn't be wise, since the market depth would - again - be too low to really profit him. And he'd lose all his potential future income. Again, simply keep up the good work is the way to go.
And I, for one, am not concerned, he'll pull off something bad, since I believe him to be an honest person. But remember, this is no investment/trading advice and I can't be held accountable.

tl;dr: He simply has no reason to care for the share price. Keeping the share price up or pulling of a scam would be incredibly stupid, both profit-wise and  future-business-wise

Miner, you realize that the rules are murky and it's unregulated but you haven't considered the other possibilities. Bitcoin use could take off and major companies and investors could become interested in buying a stake in a proven player in the ASIC manufacturing world. Bit fountain should have an interest in maintaining a healthy and relatively stable share price in the long term if it expects to cash in on this.

I consider myself in this ride for the long haul but it would certainly help if fried cat could provide some regular guidance and address the communication issue in the future. He chose to fund this company from the public and he has a fiduciary duty to the shareholders. So far I think he has acted in shareholders interests to a T but the communication would go a long way towards increasing investor confidence.

[aahzmundus]

If there is anyone here who is looking to sell a large amount of shares via havelock transfer please PM me. Escrow only. No exceptions.

Care to specify what you consider large?  Some people consider a full share a large investment, others consider a board member a large holder and no one else... the range is huge.

[necro_nemesis]

I consider myself in this ride for the long haul but it would certainly help if fried cat could provide some regular guidance and address the communication issue in the future. He chose to fund this company from the public and he has a fiduciary duty to the shareholders. So far I think he has acted in shareholders interests to a T but the communication would go a long way towards increasing investor confidence.

Somewhat unnerving with the shortage of information is the appearance of a departure from the appreciation of the need for transparency.

This is the most significant problem here. There has to be a way for the board members or wider shareholders to monitor our financials and business operations. Representations could be sent by the board and do much of the job, and when we grow larger some professional auditing will be also very important. We will keep everything as transparent as enough with the help of our investors.

[rockxie]

We(RockMiner) are just a large buyer to ASICMINER, and will/can not benefit by an indirect discount via my "board member" identity like I cooperated with ASICMINER before.We will purchase chips with the same price as other large buyers. Of course I am not saint, I hope we can buy chips with cheaper price, but you known FC is upright like Germanic people, there is no way to do this. We trust FC since 2012 and I think he deserves our trust in future. As I known he is doing his best as he can for ASICMINER, and contributed all his time for this project, he did not even have time to go home during the Chinese New Year holidays, do you really think FC will hurt ASICMINER shareholders?

ASICMINER will rise up,and RockMiner will rock you.

Thanks.

[neilol-real]

We(RockMiner) are just a large buyer to ASICMINER, and will/can not benefit by an indirect discount via my "board member" identity like I cooperated with ASICMINER before.We will purchase chips with the same price as other large buyers. Of course I am not saint, I hope we can buy chips with cheaper price, but you known FC is upright like Germanic people, there is no way to do this. We trust FC since 2012 and I think he deserves our trust in future. As I known he is doing his best as he can for ASICMINER, and contributed all his time for this project, he did not even have time to go home during the Chinese New Year holidays, do you really think FC will hurt ASICMINER shareholders?

ASICMINER will rise up,and RockMiner will rock you.

Thanks.

Awesome and much needed post - would like confirm from the FC however.

[aahzmundus]

We(RockMiner) are just a large buyer to ASICMINER, and will/can not benefit by an indirect discount via my "board member" identity like I cooperated with ASICMINER before.We will purchase chips with the same price as other large buyers. Of course I am not saint, I hope we can buy chips with cheaper price, but you known FC is upright like Germanic people, there is no way to do this. We trust FC since 2012 and I think he deserves our trust in future. As I known he is doing his best as he can for ASICMINER, and contributed all his time for this project, he did not even have time to go home during the Chinese New Year holidays, do you really think FC will hurt ASICMINER shareholders?

ASICMINER will rise up,and RockMiner will rock you.

Thanks.

Thank you for the further assurance, I wish you all the best.

I however highly encourage you to work with a native English speaker when you are posting official RockMiner things, as your current ability is not up to where it should be.  In the future you will have issues with people misunderstanding you and this will cause some harm... lots of people have a lot of money on the line here, and it would be a shame for all the harm to be from nothing more then the language barrier.

[Franktank]

We(RockMiner) are just a large buyer to ASICMINER, and will/can not benefit by an indirect discount via my "board member" identity like I cooperated with ASICMINER before.We will purchase chips with the same price as other large buyers. Of course I am not saint, I hope we can buy chips with cheaper price, but you known FC is upright like Germanic people, there is no way to do this. We trust FC since 2012 and I think he deserves our trust in future. As I known he is doing his best as he can for ASICMINER, and contributed all his time for this project, he did not even have time to go home during the Chinese New Year holidays, do you really think FC will hurt ASICMINER shareholders?

ASICMINER will rise up,and RockMiner will rock you.

Thanks.

Awesome and much needed post - would like confirm from the FC however.

I'm curious if friedcat suggested that he post this, so it shows that BitFountain/AM will not be biased to any large scale buyer...

[spartan82]

All this speculation, my goodness. Have a little faith people, FC has never done us any wrong so far. AM remains probably the most trusted investments in the bitcoin world

[VolanicEruptor]

If you read his post backwards you will see Friedcats real name and GPS location, along with future share prices...

I'm holding.

[necro_nemesis]

@rockxie. From an upright or uptight Germanic person's perspective the posts are fine and can be understood within the context they are written without the need for an interpreter. Please do not hesitate to post information. If there is any need for clarification we will ask. This is not an interrogation. I applaud your efforts to keep us informed.

[keystroke]

What do you guys guess per share dividends will total over the next year?

[jimmothy]

What do you guys guess per share dividends will total over the next year?

400,000 btc at least.

1btc/share

[willBTC]

What do you guys guess per share dividends will total over the next year?

400,000 btc at least.

1btc/share

My simple calculation result is around 0.5 btc.