ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[ujka]

I have some shares that I purchased on btc-tc and can see dividend payouts to the ownership address I gave. What is the process to transfer these shares to an exchange or otherwise verify my access to them?

If you are able to sign a message with that address, confirming that you do own it and the shares, then the directions to import your shares to havelock are on AM1 overview page:
https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=AM1

[gomei]

Well Rockminer made a twitter blog since they are sort of related
https://twitter.com/RockMinerInc

looking forward for chips performance on that R-box board this time 4chips

Same and darn saw it before I changed it to twitter account since I was thinking wait twitter doesn't blog lol

Guess I'll post the chips as well this time since I'm replying

nice to see that.

[ning]

The advantage of applying immersion cooling is mostly spatial [1]: it saves space by allowing a very high energy (hashing) density, and it loosens the constraints on where the miner rigs can be deployed. However, space doesn't seem to be a bottleneck as of now, but it might be in the (near) future. With immersion cooling the cost of the cooling fluids will become a nonnegligible (if not major) part of the whole operation, a consistent and calculated design of the PCB boards and the metal cooling tanks can minimize the consumption of cooling fluids and thus reduce costs. So, there's a lot of work to do other than manufacturing efficient hashing chips.

[1] Google data centers can achieve a PUE (Power Usage Effectiveness) of less than 1.06 [2], so I don't think a PUE of of less than 1.02 [3] achieved with immersion cooling is spectacularly impressive.
[2] https://www.google.com/about/datacenters/efficiency/internal/
[3] http://www.allied-control.com/publications/Full_Version_Bitcoin_2-Phase_Immersion_Cooling_and_the_Implications_for_HPC.pdf

[jimmothy]

The advantage of applying immersion cooling is mostly spatial [1]: it saves space by allowing a very high energy (hashing) density, and it loosens the constraints on where the miner rigs can be deployed. However, space doesn't seem to be a bottleneck as of now, but it might be in the (near) future. With immersion cooling the cost of the cooling fluids will become a nonnegligible (if not major) part of the whole operation, a consistent and calculated design of the PCB boards and the metal cooling tanks can minimize the consumption of cooling fluids and thus reduce costs. So, there's a lot of work to do other than manufacturing efficient hashing chips.

[1] Google data centers can achieve a PUE (Power Usage Effectiveness) of less than 1.06 [2], so I don't think a PUE of of less than 1.02 [3] achieved with immersion cooling is spectacularly impressive.
[2] https://www.google.com/about/datacenters/efficiency/internal/
[3] http://www.allied-control.com/publications/Full_Version_Bitcoin_2-Phase_Immersion_Cooling_and_the_Implications_for_HPC.pdf

Saving 5% on electricity is definitely important for any large datacenter and the methods google uses to cool are very extreme and expensive.

The average datacenter would save something like 20% on electricity costs in addition to the high density as you mentioned.

[necro_nemesis]

The advantage of applying immersion cooling is mostly spatial.

Which really is a function of where you want to situate your data center and that typically would be established as a function of energy costs, climate and real estate costs. I believe it was already established that immersion cooling was not a cost effective solution so it's interest other than novelty would have one conclude it has little bearing on future AM operations. If you already have tanks full of Novec use it but IMHO KNC took the more cost effective approach.

[jimmothy]

The advantage of applying immersion cooling is mostly spatial.

Which really is a function of where you want to situate your data center and that typically would be established as a function of energy costs and real estate costs. I believe it was already established that immersion cooling was not a cost effective solution so it's interest other than novelty would have one conclude it has little bearing on future AM operations. If you already have tanks full of Novec use it but IMHO KNC took the more cost effective approach.

10 times more space and 30% extra electricity is not cheap.

[necro_nemesis]

The beauty of mining is it can be situated anywhere there's network access and power. 30% or far more can be saved on where it's situated.  That also is offset by lower startup costs.

[jimmothy]

The beauty of mining is it can be situated anywhere there's network access and power. 30% or far more can be saved on where it's situated.  That also is offset by lower startup costs.

Googles mega expensive, highly engineered, sea water cooled datacenter in finland has a PUE of more than 1.06 so knc must have a PUE of around 1.15 where as immersion cooling can be as low as 1.01

What seems like a better choice:

Option A
10 x $100,000 1MW containers @ 1.01 PUE

Or

Option B
1 x giant $5,000,000 10MW aircraft hanger @ 1.15-1.3 PUE

[necro_nemesis]

As ridiculous as it may sound I would be looking at cold war leftovers in the form of abandoned hangars and silos.

[aahzmundus]

As ridiculous as it may sound I would be looking at cold war leftovers in the form of abandoned hangars and silos.

Iceland, Cheep electricity... cold climate.  If I were to set up a new major mining operation, I would go to iceland.

[jimmothy]

As ridiculous as it may sound I would be looking at cold war leftovers in the form of abandoned hangars and silos.

Iceland, Cheep electricity... cold climate.  If I were to set up a new major mining operation, I would go to iceland.

Even if you could get the building for free and managed to acheive an impressive air cooled PUE of 1.15 you would still be better off with immersion cooling.

You would get your money back in only a year from electricity savings alone.

[bitcoin.newsfeed]

What has ASICminer in common with immersion cooling from Allied Control other than one small room filled with "proof-of-concept" which is anyway in every day loss right now? Is ASICminer officially building any mining farms ? No. Unofficially behind our backs? Maybe. What is crucial is timing. And I see only delays and empty promises over last 6-8 months here ! Timing is everything and Friedcat is very slow. He knew like 6 months about tape-out timeline, he should have everything in place ... and now, when chips are finally out he is unable to do anything for 3 weeks? And no communication with shareholders? What the... ? So much for "overpromise and overdeliver" ... yeah. 

[bitfair]

What has ASICminer in common with immersion cooling from Allied Control other than one small room filled with "proof-of-concept" which is anyway in every day loss right now?

A partnership.

Is ASICminer officially building any mining farms ? No. Unofficially behind our backs? Maybe.

They have (repeatedly) said that the HK datacenter will be used.

What is crucial is timing. And I see only delays and empty promises over last 6-8 months here ! Timing is everything and Friedcat is very slow. He knew like 6 months about tape-out timeline, he should have everything in place ... and now, when chips are finally out he is unable to do anything for 3 weeks? And no communication with shareholders? What the... ? So much for "overpromise and overdeliver" ... yeah. 

If he hasn't been communicating, how can you conclude he hasn't been doing anything?

[bitcoin.newsfeed]

What has ASICminer in common with immersion cooling from Allied Control other than one small room filled with "proof-of-concept" which is anyway in every day loss right now?

A partnership.

Partnership? It was only one project and ASICminer was a customer. Now AC can sell their technology to anybody. No share from profit for ASICminer, its completely different company.

Is ASICminer officially building any mining farms ? No. Unofficially behind our backs? Maybe.

They have (repeatedly) said that the HK datacenter will be used.

Promises. And what after that?

What is crucial is timing. And I see only delays and empty promises over last 6-8 months here ! Timing is everything and Friedcat is very slow. He knew like 6 months about tape-out timeline, he should have everything in place ... and now, when chips are finally out he is unable to do anything for 3 weeks? And no communication with shareholders? What the... ? So much for "overpromise and overdeliver" ... yeah. 

If he hasn't been communicating, how can you conclude he hasn't been doing anything?

Because I see no results and no communication about whats happening? No news were always bad news here.

[stompysteve]

maybe everyone is busy optimizing before they come out with another statement on speed on chips......

[MichaelBliss]

What has ASICminer in common with immersion cooling from Allied Control other than one small room filled with "proof-of-concept" which is anyway in every day loss right now?

A partnership.

Partnership? It was only one project and ASICminer was a customer. Now AC can sell their technology to anybody. No share from profit for ASICminer, its completely different company.

Is ASICminer officially building any mining farms ? No. Unofficially behind our backs? Maybe.

They have (repeatedly) said that the HK datacenter will be used.

Promises. And what after that?

What is crucial is timing. And I see only delays and empty promises over last 6-8 months here ! Timing is everything and Friedcat is very slow. He knew like 6 months about tape-out timeline, he should have everything in place ... and now, when chips are finally out he is unable to do anything for 3 weeks? And no communication with shareholders? What the... ? So much for "overpromise and overdeliver" ... yeah. 

If he hasn't been communicating, how can you conclude he hasn't been doing anything?

Because I see no results and no communication about whats happening? No news were always bad news here.

In that case... Stop whining and sell your shares already.  Or do you just come on here saying a lot of stupid angry things in a lame attempt to drive the price down?

[bitfair]

Partnership? It was only one project and ASICminer was a customer. Now AC can sell their technology to anybody. No share from profit for ASICminer, its completely different company.

What's your point? It's obviously a strategic partnership that they both stand to profit from.

Promises. And what after that?

Well, you asked if AM is "officially building any mining farms", and the answer is "Yes, they are officially doing so." I imagine that after they are officially finished building it, it will officially be put to some use.

Because I see no results and no communication about whats happening? No news were always bad news here.

Engineering samples sent out to customers doesn't count as "results"? In fact, there have been plenty of "results" and FC actually keeps us relatively updated on the progress and is pretty transparent about the operations. Three weeks may be longer than you (and I, for that matter) would like to wait between updates, but considering the pace at which these things move it's not too bad.

[bitsalame]

What has ASICminer in common with immersion cooling from Allied Control other than one small room filled with "proof-of-concept" which is anyway in every day loss right now?

A partnership.

Partnership? It was only one project and ASICminer was a customer. Now AC can sell their technology to anybody. No share from profit for ASICminer, its completely different company.

Is ASICminer officially building any mining farms ? No. Unofficially behind our backs? Maybe.

They have (repeatedly) said that the HK datacenter will be used.

Promises. And what after that?

What is crucial is timing. And I see only delays and empty promises over last 6-8 months here ! Timing is everything and Friedcat is very slow. He knew like 6 months about tape-out timeline, he should have everything in place ... and now, when chips are finally out he is unable to do anything for 3 weeks? And no communication with shareholders? What the... ? So much for "overpromise and overdeliver" ... yeah. 

If he hasn't been communicating, how can you conclude he hasn't been doing anything?

Because I see no results and no communication about whats happening? No news were always bad news here.

Yeah, you are absolutely right.
Sell me all your shares right now, I'll take that risk for you.

[necro_nemesis]

FC stated he needed to address PR and that hasn't occured. From there on I don't get the impression anything has derailed from the plan which offered three courses: selling, mining, and franchising; the greater emphasis of which is going to be based on best return at the time production runs were projected to hit the street. I am hopeful a high percentage will go to mining and that a plan is put in place to create a sustainable revenue stream for the company. Regardless the company should be able profit now that Gen3 is establshed and show an income. By comparison there is no income to be had from BTC sitting in a wallet.

If you go back through this thread from the origins of AM the nexus of issues are PR related so what we are currently experiencing with respect to PR is not unprecidented.

O/T From their twitter account it looks like RM got the 4 X ASIC board stuffed and are testing.

[Bonam]

Immersion cooling might make sense for a super reliable set-up and forget type system. But for a real datacenter with essentially prototype equipment? People need to go in there to perform maintenance, replace aging/malfunctioning units, diagnose errors. Ease of use, accessibility, having a setup more familiar to a wider range of personnel with only standard training/experience are all of great value. How long does it take to drain the tanks if someone needs to go in and fiddle with one of the boxes? Or do you leave malfunctioning units alone to not disturb the rest of the system, and if so, what's the cost of that over time? What kind of training do personnel need to safely work with these systems and what is the cost of these personnel relative to those who can work with a standard data center?

In short, immersion cooling might be of interest in specific applications such as military, security agency, and some of the largest companies where maximum performance density trumps everything else and billions of dollars are available for specialized facilities, procedures, and personnel. But for a typical start-up company that has to worry about capital costs, is juggling personnel among all kinds of tasks that they are learning on the fly, and is working with prototype systems that don't have years of reliability heritage already established... not worth it.

People seem to forget all the complications associated with working with non-standard prototype systems and just look at a few % savings in electricity cost, but that's not nearly the whole picture.