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Author Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It  (Read 3914038 times)
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March 18, 2015, 08:31:20 PM
 #26221

So in other words... AM is trying to avoid being sued for obvious wrong doing.
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March 18, 2015, 08:42:13 PM
 #26222


Join the Amhash chatroom to discuss the legal path:
https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.dal.net/#amhash

Is Asicminer a real business entity?
Yes,
Shenzhen bit Quan Information Technology Co., Ltd.

> ALL cloudmining companies are SCAM <
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March 18, 2015, 08:44:48 PM
 #26223

...
Shenzhen bit Quan Information Technology Co., Ltd.

Check spelling?
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March 18, 2015, 09:51:18 PM
Last edit: March 19, 2015, 06:25:39 AM by flame1012
 #26224

The Amhash Incident in Chronological order: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=996135.0

> ALL cloudmining companies are SCAM <
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March 18, 2015, 10:22:06 PM
 #26225

.
e) AM has enough funding to stay in business independent of BTC valuation for a considerable amount of time.



The only person who could make a clear statement on that would be FC who conveniently vanished into thin air. On that note I will disclose that there has been a board meeting on the 17-JAN-2015 and 25-JAN-2015 and on neither dates FC mentioned that there may be a problem with the mining farm running AMHash. He was even discussing the strategic consideration surrounding a TO of the BE300, for which he failed to find financing. He was asked to compile a joint venture proposal to move the project further. That never happened.



One of these things is not the truth.   Shortage on funding,  there was PLENTY of people around to help if they were asked back in NOVEMBER OR DECEMBER.  Why is this coming out now?  

Less than 60 days later after a public statement,  behind closed doors looking for funding?  WTF


For your clarification, FC stated that there is enough funding to keep people employed and working on design for a considerable amount of time. That didn't include major expense items like tape out costs, which he considered timing and market dependent. Obviously it doesn't make sense to spend $10 million on a tape out for a new chip if BTC sells at 1 USD (Reductio ad absurdum).

You are correct. Funding should have been secured in November/December the latest. Failure of creating a financial roadmap seems to be a prevalent theme with AM. Unfortunately roadmaps is something which small companies hardly do in their attempt to optimize business agility.

If you're frustrated how management carried out their decisions you're in good company. Unfortunately it's too late to change anything about it now.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
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March 18, 2015, 11:06:44 PM
 #26226

I am at crossroads here with my consciousness, if i pursue this further, it is almost sure they will get executed and in the end i will end up with no money and with some dead guys in my purse. The Chinese gov. and the Russian gov. are best friends right now and if this comes to their knowledge, they will not spare some lives for satisfying their Russian friends.

This is the vengeance option.

At this point, i would like to summon the opinion of the users of consciousness, seriously, no jokes or insults, just for this time, behave like men, men of honor and consciousness .

 You're at a crossroads with your sanity.  No joke.  Seek help.
Delusional.
Seems reasonable to me. Boris here just calls up his buddy Vladimir, who dials Jinping, and bing bang boom it's a dead cat.
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March 18, 2015, 11:11:41 PM
 #26227

Can someone point me to a post which describes the relationship between ASICMINER and AMHash?

I had believed it was a separate entity, and did not effect the core business. But now I am not certain, a post stating the AM Board is working on relief for AMHash holders and nothing in regards to AM holders is rather confusing.
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March 18, 2015, 11:26:24 PM
 #26228

Can someone point me to a post which describes the relationship between ASICMINER and AMHash?

I had believed it was a separate entity, and did not effect the core business. But now I am not certain, a post stating the AM Board is working on relief for AMHash holders and nothing in regards to AM holders is rather confusing.

Here you go:

AMHash1 is the first of a series of mining contracts.

In this contract, the hashrate is provided by ASICMiner, the management is provided by
RockMiner, and the platform is provided by HavelockInvestments.

For updates please view
http://www.amhash.com/

The purchasing site is
https://www.havelockinvestments.com/order.php?symbol=AMHASH1

The forum contact ID is amhash. The email contact is fund@amhash.com.

Introduction
AMHash1 is a mining Fund which has 5 Peta-hash per second or (5,000,000 Giga-hashes per second) in total.
The Fund is divided into 5 million (5,000,000) s each of which represents 1Gigahash per second.
The price of each unit is 1.25 mBTC (0.00125 BTC).
The contract starts at 18:00:00 in November 4, 2014(Beijing Time, GMT+8).
The time is based on forum time.

Duration for the IPO:
IPO Starting Time: 18:00:00, October 24, 2014(Beijing Time, GMT+8)
IPO Closing Time: 18:00:00, November 4, 2014(Beijing Time, GMT+8)

Advantages
1. Higher ROI; low cost on both initial price and maintenance fee.

2. Flexible trading; the contract is fully tradable at the secondary market through Havelock Investments trading platform allowing you to exit your position at any time.

3. Guaranteed profit; Compared to others, AMHash1 Fund will pay you dividends based on hashrate equivalent calculation protecting your earnings and shielding you from hardware maintenance cost and risk.

5. It simplifies the ROI estimations by eliminating the factors involved in constructing a mining farm, such as infrastructure cost, shipping time, repairing, electricity bill and labor.

6. 100% real hasharate; The live photos of mining farm and hashrate monitor platform will be provided and fully disclosed.

Payout calculation
Payouts are done daily.

The payout rate before fee substraction is 25 / (difficulty * 4.295) BTC per unit per second.

The fee is 1.89*10^(-8) USD per unit per second. It will be substracted from the pre-fee payout rate. The exchange rate is based on bitstamp 24h average.

The total seconds of each payout is:

1. in the first payout, 3,600 * 24.

2. During normal payouts, the number of seconds during the most recent payout to this payout.

If there is a difficulty change between two payouts, the due payout will be calculated based on two different difficulties and their corresponding time intervals.

If the calculated payout after fee substraction is less than or equal to zero, the contract will be suspended. If the number of subsequent days suspended reaches 10, the contract terminates.

Risk control
1. Before IPO closes, ASICMiner has the right to buy back at the price of IPO price * 100.5%.

2. During the first 45 days after IPO closes, ASICMiner has the right to buy back at the price of (IPO price - total payouts) * 120%. The notification period is 3 days.

3. If the delay of payment happens, all unpaid payments will be accounted separately on daily basis and increase by 0.02% per day(flat rate based on the initial unpaid payment amount, no compound rate) after three days.

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March 18, 2015, 11:38:14 PM
 #26229

Why weren't shareholders informed that AM couldn't finance BE300?

Hey Jutarul you missed this question.

If you're frustrated how management carried out their decisions you're in good company. Unfortunately it's too late to change anything about it now.

I think many shareholders are frustrated about the lack of financial statement for Q4 2014 and the lack of communication overall, but they couldn't do anything about it. Saying that now it's too late makes me think that they could've done something which is simply false.

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March 19, 2015, 12:26:14 AM
 #26230

I am not certain, a post stating the AM Board is working on relief for AMHash holders and nothing in regards to AM holders is rather confusing.

This.  AH hash is a sideshow.  Why is it centre stage, besides the yipping of helicopter boy?
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March 19, 2015, 06:13:33 AM
 #26231

I am not certain, a post stating the AM Board is working on relief for AMHash holders and nothing in regards to AM holders is rather confusing.

This.  AH hash is a sideshow.  Why is it centre stage, besides the yipping of helicopter boy?


Beat's me but it seems to be where the biggest voice is so I presume its to try and placate it


You are correct. Funding should have been secured in November/December the latest. Failure of creating a financial roadmap seems to be a prevalent theme with AM. Unfortunately roadmaps is something which small companies hardly do in their attempt to optimize business agility.

An important lesson in a sense have all companies create financial roadmaps
Looking back retrospectively it always sounded like FC had one but I guess it was just well positioned talking.
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March 19, 2015, 06:49:34 AM
 #26232

Why weren't shareholders informed that AM couldn't finance BE300?

Hey Jutarul you missed this question.

If you're frustrated how management carried out their decisions you're in good company. Unfortunately it's too late to change anything about it now.

I think many shareholders are frustrated about the lack of financial statement for Q4 2014 and the lack of communication overall, but they couldn't do anything about it. Saying that now it's too late makes me think that they could've done something which is simply false.
FC was continuously reminded to publish financial statements since they were due in Q4 2014. He also was reminded to secure financing for the tape out. It was considered a discretionary decision of the CEO to bring this either to public attention or not.

Sample chips for BE300 rolled out in December. At the quality of communication FC engaged in, some board members assumed this to be the actual tape out. In January at the board meeting FC communicated that there was no financing for the BE300 TO - that some investors were discouraged by the falling BTC price. I can only assume that this means he had someone making assurances and that someone didn't follow through.

In principal I agree with you and looking at it from a hindsight perspective, informing all shareholders may have encouraged some assistance. But this thing was going fast from 100 to 0 in 1-3 weeks.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
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March 19, 2015, 09:44:53 AM
 #26233

In principal I agree with you and looking at it from a hindsight perspective, informing all shareholders may have encouraged some assistance. But this thing was going fast from 100 to 0 in 1-3 weeks.

you heard it guys. It is really time. Good night, it was a nice ride. But everything stops somewhere.

Will take me a while to climb up again, But where is a will, there is a way...
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March 19, 2015, 10:37:32 AM
 #26234

In January at the board meeting FC communicated that there was no financing for the BE300 TO
How much $$$ was needed?  Does this make any sense at all, given the size of some of the known AM wallets?  (EDIT: Okay, $10m is quite a lot.)

And we're still left with FC having disappeared and a large number of bitcoins seemingly having disappeared.  It still has exit scam written all over it. Sad
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March 19, 2015, 12:16:39 PM
 #26235

If the company failed it failed and there is nothing to do about it.  Any remaining funds need to be distributed per share to the share holders.
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March 19, 2015, 01:30:59 PM
 #26236

If the company failed it failed and there is nothing to do about it.  Any remaining funds need to be distributed per share to the share holders.
+ BE300 Design ca be sold too. But I doubt ,,AM Managment'' would distribute these earnings among all share holders.
 

Why didn't FC reported about the missed funding of AM300 TO to public? In my opinion admitting failure was not an option for FC so he left. He has a sh*#load of BTC under his control.
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March 19, 2015, 02:44:26 PM
 #26237


For your clarification, FC stated that there is enough funding to keep people employed and working on design for a considerable amount of time. That didn't include major expense items like tape out costs, which he considered timing and market dependent. 1 Obviously it doesn't make sense to spend $10 million on a tape out for a new chip if BTC sells at 1 USD 2 (Reductio ad absurdum).

You are correct. Funding should have been secured in November/December the latest. Failure of creating a financial roadmap seems to be a prevalent theme with AM. 3 Unfortunately roadmaps is something which small companies hardly do in their attempt to optimize business agility.

If you're frustrated how management carried out their decisions you're in good company. Unfortunately it's too late to change anything about it now. 4


Jutarul,  yes i am very frustrated.  However thank you for helping answer some of these questions.  

Some points to add though:

1) Making a public statement saying that AM has enough capital to move forward regardless of BTC price,  on basically the eve of a make or break product,  while not having funding in place to produce said product, was EXTREMELY misleading.   People bought on that statement and made decisions on that statement.   No one was  thinking, that BE300 is going to get held up because of MONEY of all things.

2) It does make sense to produce BE300 regardless of BTC price as a matter of fact,  if we want to talk about timing,  everyone is hurting right now, and the block reward halving draws near.  The name of the game is to capture as many BTC as possible.  This environment could actually be the best time possible to secure a future for AM as while the price it isn't so attractive for new players to enter or competition to forge ahead aggressively with new hardware.  The closer we get to the cutting edge technology the harder it becomes.  Now is the  ONLY time.  


3)  I  disagree that there was no roadmap,  i have no more information than what is posted here and it is plain as day that samples were ordered,  they came back good,  we knew there needed to be mass production by march / april  (basically now).  It is obvious the order needed to go in as soon as the samples were confirmed good.  Looks like a roadmap to me.

which leads me to #4

4) It is NOT to late to change anything now, btc price is still depressed and though some of the competitive advantage is gone it still seems like BE300 is a good chip and stands to be able to capture some serious BTC,  however from where i sit it doesn't seem like anything is being done about that.  Doddling around like this just makes it look setup to fail.


Another thought:   Though you say the duties of the board members weren't defined.  Each member had their own duty to themselves (as to protect their own wealth!!!!!) and to shareholders to ensure / steer the company to the right path,  ie: to DIRECT.  From the sounds of it,  you guys let FC handle everything.  Not having any idea where finances sit at or letting the FREAKING CEO handle menial tasks such as share transfers for example and accept that as a good use of his time is ABSURD.  What the hell is everyone thinking?   I know from experience that being the head of even small companies is stressful as all hell,  i could not imagine what it must be like to be FC,  and everyone,  board members and management included failed him.   The fact no one knows what is going on is because you guys did not do your jobs to DEMAND to know what is going on.


I also would like to know the answers to some of the other questions asked in the thread that have gone un answered.  Namely:

What BE200 remains unsold and in stock ?  

Is there a rough break down of the 10M required?   Is it possible to break it up in to milestones as to limit the initial risk for people that may want to get involved?

What is the turn around time on a BE300 order,  to packaged chips in hand?


teek

 

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March 19, 2015, 02:49:42 PM
 #26238

And what about these statements from November?  Huge emphasis on point E


I am going to make a pre-announcement to serve some open questions.
a) financials statements are currently in preparation and start getting processed next week. Dependent on how long the accountant needs, the financial statements should be accessible shortly after
b) FC has committed to making a dividend payment soon to clear OTC and provide a new public checkpoint for shareholder balances.
c) The need for a better information handling with shareholders is being recognized and it's been suggested to prepare a dedicated website to handle company matters. It's part of an internal restructuring effort. I'll let the responsible person provide more details, but I assume that suggestions from shareholders on the best way to implement it (e.g. forum, realtime chat room, ticket systems) are welcome.
d) the good news is that the company is alive and kicking. Based on my assessment they have a solid product and new stuff in the pipeline, which should allow the company to generate revenues to sustain growth. The biggest advantage of AM is its focus on cost competitiveness and solid relationships with suppliers, which allows them to grow the company organically. The bad news is that a lot of opportunity got lost in FY14 and supply chain and product problems prevented AM from generating the expected profit margins. That said FY14 has been a bad year for most companies in the mining space, and thus AM is not a particular exception.
e) AM has enough funding to stay in business independent of BTC valuation for a considerable amount of time.
f) The low valuation of AM has not gone unnoticed. While valuation is currently not an impediment to AM's business, it is recognized as a weakness and may have to be dealt with appropriately at a future point in time.

This was only 4 months ago.  Difficulty has only increased a small amount since then.  BTC / usd has fallen though.
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March 19, 2015, 03:59:08 PM
 #26239

Jutarul,  yes i am very frustrated.  However thank you for helping answer some of these questions.  

Some points to add though:

1) Making a public statement saying that AM has enough capital to move forward regardless of BTC price,  on basically the eve of a make or break product,  while not having funding in place to produce said product, was EXTREMELY misleading.   People bought on that statement and made decisions on that statement.   No one was  thinking, that BE300 is going to get held up because of MONEY of all things.
The problem with words is that half the time they get misinterpreted. Just because a company stays in business, doesn't mean that they execute certain projects. Did google fail because they didn't bring google glasses to the mass market?

Right now there seems to be some money stuck in accounts, only FC has access to.

2) It does make sense to produce BE300 regardless of BTC price as a matter of fact,  if we want to talk about timing,  everyone is hurting right now, and the block reward halving draws near.  The name of the game is to capture as many BTC as possible.  This environment could actually be the best time possible to secure a future for AM as while the price it isn't so attractive for new players to enter or competition to forge ahead aggressively with new hardware.  The closer we get to the cutting edge technology the harder it becomes.  Now is the  ONLY time.  
You said it yourself. The name of the game is to get a net return on every BTC invested. That's what investors ultimately look for. FC was extremely aware of that point. BTC prices where still in the 370 USD range when sample chips got received. That's when the financing should have been secured (by funding the accounts). It didn't happen.

3)  I  disagree that there was no roadmap,  i have no more information than what is posted here and it is plain as day that samples were ordered,  they came back good,  we knew there needed to be mass production by march / april  (basically now).  It is obvious the order needed to go in as soon as the samples were confirmed good.  Looks like a roadmap to me.
which leads me to #4

4) It is NOT to late to change anything now, btc price is still depressed and though some of the competitive advantage is gone it still seems like BE300 is a good chip and stands to be able to capture some serious BTC,  however from where i sit it doesn't seem like anything is being done about that.  Doddling around like this just makes it look setup to fail.
Do you want to buyout the company? Be my guest. Current management would love the idea. This is no joke.

Another thought:   Though you say the duties of the board members weren't defined.  Each member had their own duty to themselves (as to protect their own wealth!!!!!) and to shareholders to ensure / steer the company to the right path,  ie: to DIRECT.  From the sounds of it,  you guys let FC handle everything.  Not having any idea where finances sit at or letting the FREAKING CEO handle menial tasks such as share transfers for example and accept that as a good use of his time is ABSURD.  What the hell is everyone thinking?   I know from experience that being the head of even small companies is stressful as all hell,  i could not imagine what it must be like to be FC,  and everyone,  board members and management included failed him.   The fact no one knows what is going on is because you guys did not do your jobs to DEMAND to know what is going on.
I don't know how to respond to that. FC is an adult and he was repeatedly asked to delegate and improve certain conditions. He didn't comply with the requests. The desolate state surrounding providing information to shareholders was no secret. What is more surprising in hindsight is that key people who worked with FC on a daily basis failed to see the signs, and if they were they failed in the same way. The Rockminer story is testament to that.

I also would like to know the answers to some of the other questions asked in the thread that have gone un answered.  Namely:

What BE200 remains unsold and in stock ?  
Based on AM management, about 1000-2000 devices worth. The exact number depends on some quality factors.

Is there a rough break down of the 10M required?   Is it possible to break it up in to milestones as to limit the initial risk for people that may want to get involved?
$2M for fixed costs. The rest is the initial order + potential profit. You can target a lower amount, which either precludes any profit for AM or makes the fixed costs a significant amount. FC mentioned that the minimum order should be around $6M for it to make economical sense, but he said that doesn't include any profit margin.

What is the turn around time on a BE300 order,  to packaged chips in hand?
2-3 months.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
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March 19, 2015, 04:04:27 PM
 #26240

Group buy of BE300 chips anyone?

Under development Modular UPGRADEABLE Miner (MUM). Looking for investors.
Changing one PCB with screwdriver and you have brand new miner in hand... Plug&Play, scalable from one module to thousands.
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