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Author Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It  (Read 3896925 times)
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March 19, 2015, 01:30:59 PM
 #26241

If the company failed it failed and there is nothing to do about it.  Any remaining funds need to be distributed per share to the share holders.
+ BE300 Design ca be sold too. But I doubt ,,AM Managment'' would distribute these earnings among all share holders.
 

Why didn't FC reported about the missed funding of AM300 TO to public? In my opinion admitting failure was not an option for FC so he left. He has a sh*#load of BTC under his control.
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March 19, 2015, 02:44:26 PM
 #26242


For your clarification, FC stated that there is enough funding to keep people employed and working on design for a considerable amount of time. That didn't include major expense items like tape out costs, which he considered timing and market dependent. 1 Obviously it doesn't make sense to spend $10 million on a tape out for a new chip if BTC sells at 1 USD 2 (Reductio ad absurdum).

You are correct. Funding should have been secured in November/December the latest. Failure of creating a financial roadmap seems to be a prevalent theme with AM. 3 Unfortunately roadmaps is something which small companies hardly do in their attempt to optimize business agility.

If you're frustrated how management carried out their decisions you're in good company. Unfortunately it's too late to change anything about it now. 4


Jutarul,  yes i am very frustrated.  However thank you for helping answer some of these questions.  

Some points to add though:

1) Making a public statement saying that AM has enough capital to move forward regardless of BTC price,  on basically the eve of a make or break product,  while not having funding in place to produce said product, was EXTREMELY misleading.   People bought on that statement and made decisions on that statement.   No one was  thinking, that BE300 is going to get held up because of MONEY of all things.

2) It does make sense to produce BE300 regardless of BTC price as a matter of fact,  if we want to talk about timing,  everyone is hurting right now, and the block reward halving draws near.  The name of the game is to capture as many BTC as possible.  This environment could actually be the best time possible to secure a future for AM as while the price it isn't so attractive for new players to enter or competition to forge ahead aggressively with new hardware.  The closer we get to the cutting edge technology the harder it becomes.  Now is the  ONLY time.  


3)  I  disagree that there was no roadmap,  i have no more information than what is posted here and it is plain as day that samples were ordered,  they came back good,  we knew there needed to be mass production by march / april  (basically now).  It is obvious the order needed to go in as soon as the samples were confirmed good.  Looks like a roadmap to me.

which leads me to #4

4) It is NOT to late to change anything now, btc price is still depressed and though some of the competitive advantage is gone it still seems like BE300 is a good chip and stands to be able to capture some serious BTC,  however from where i sit it doesn't seem like anything is being done about that.  Doddling around like this just makes it look setup to fail.


Another thought:   Though you say the duties of the board members weren't defined.  Each member had their own duty to themselves (as to protect their own wealth!!!!!) and to shareholders to ensure / steer the company to the right path,  ie: to DIRECT.  From the sounds of it,  you guys let FC handle everything.  Not having any idea where finances sit at or letting the FREAKING CEO handle menial tasks such as share transfers for example and accept that as a good use of his time is ABSURD.  What the hell is everyone thinking?   I know from experience that being the head of even small companies is stressful as all hell,  i could not imagine what it must be like to be FC,  and everyone,  board members and management included failed him.   The fact no one knows what is going on is because you guys did not do your jobs to DEMAND to know what is going on.


I also would like to know the answers to some of the other questions asked in the thread that have gone un answered.  Namely:

What BE200 remains unsold and in stock ?  

Is there a rough break down of the 10M required?   Is it possible to break it up in to milestones as to limit the initial risk for people that may want to get involved?

What is the turn around time on a BE300 order,  to packaged chips in hand?


teek

 

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March 19, 2015, 02:49:42 PM
 #26243

And what about these statements from November?  Huge emphasis on point E


I am going to make a pre-announcement to serve some open questions.
a) financials statements are currently in preparation and start getting processed next week. Dependent on how long the accountant needs, the financial statements should be accessible shortly after
b) FC has committed to making a dividend payment soon to clear OTC and provide a new public checkpoint for shareholder balances.
c) The need for a better information handling with shareholders is being recognized and it's been suggested to prepare a dedicated website to handle company matters. It's part of an internal restructuring effort. I'll let the responsible person provide more details, but I assume that suggestions from shareholders on the best way to implement it (e.g. forum, realtime chat room, ticket systems) are welcome.
d) the good news is that the company is alive and kicking. Based on my assessment they have a solid product and new stuff in the pipeline, which should allow the company to generate revenues to sustain growth. The biggest advantage of AM is its focus on cost competitiveness and solid relationships with suppliers, which allows them to grow the company organically. The bad news is that a lot of opportunity got lost in FY14 and supply chain and product problems prevented AM from generating the expected profit margins. That said FY14 has been a bad year for most companies in the mining space, and thus AM is not a particular exception.
e) AM has enough funding to stay in business independent of BTC valuation for a considerable amount of time.
f) The low valuation of AM has not gone unnoticed. While valuation is currently not an impediment to AM's business, it is recognized as a weakness and may have to be dealt with appropriately at a future point in time.

This was only 4 months ago.  Difficulty has only increased a small amount since then.  BTC / usd has fallen though.
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March 19, 2015, 03:59:08 PM
 #26244

Jutarul,  yes i am very frustrated.  However thank you for helping answer some of these questions.  

Some points to add though:

1) Making a public statement saying that AM has enough capital to move forward regardless of BTC price,  on basically the eve of a make or break product,  while not having funding in place to produce said product, was EXTREMELY misleading.   People bought on that statement and made decisions on that statement.   No one was  thinking, that BE300 is going to get held up because of MONEY of all things.
The problem with words is that half the time they get misinterpreted. Just because a company stays in business, doesn't mean that they execute certain projects. Did google fail because they didn't bring google glasses to the mass market?

Right now there seems to be some money stuck in accounts, only FC has access to.

2) It does make sense to produce BE300 regardless of BTC price as a matter of fact,  if we want to talk about timing,  everyone is hurting right now, and the block reward halving draws near.  The name of the game is to capture as many BTC as possible.  This environment could actually be the best time possible to secure a future for AM as while the price it isn't so attractive for new players to enter or competition to forge ahead aggressively with new hardware.  The closer we get to the cutting edge technology the harder it becomes.  Now is the  ONLY time.  
You said it yourself. The name of the game is to get a net return on every BTC invested. That's what investors ultimately look for. FC was extremely aware of that point. BTC prices where still in the 370 USD range when sample chips got received. That's when the financing should have been secured (by funding the accounts). It didn't happen.

3)  I  disagree that there was no roadmap,  i have no more information than what is posted here and it is plain as day that samples were ordered,  they came back good,  we knew there needed to be mass production by march / april  (basically now).  It is obvious the order needed to go in as soon as the samples were confirmed good.  Looks like a roadmap to me.
which leads me to #4

4) It is NOT to late to change anything now, btc price is still depressed and though some of the competitive advantage is gone it still seems like BE300 is a good chip and stands to be able to capture some serious BTC,  however from where i sit it doesn't seem like anything is being done about that.  Doddling around like this just makes it look setup to fail.
Do you want to buyout the company? Be my guest. Current management would love the idea. This is no joke.

Another thought:   Though you say the duties of the board members weren't defined.  Each member had their own duty to themselves (as to protect their own wealth!!!!!) and to shareholders to ensure / steer the company to the right path,  ie: to DIRECT.  From the sounds of it,  you guys let FC handle everything.  Not having any idea where finances sit at or letting the FREAKING CEO handle menial tasks such as share transfers for example and accept that as a good use of his time is ABSURD.  What the hell is everyone thinking?   I know from experience that being the head of even small companies is stressful as all hell,  i could not imagine what it must be like to be FC,  and everyone,  board members and management included failed him.   The fact no one knows what is going on is because you guys did not do your jobs to DEMAND to know what is going on.
I don't know how to respond to that. FC is an adult and he was repeatedly asked to delegate and improve certain conditions. He didn't comply with the requests. The desolate state surrounding providing information to shareholders was no secret. What is more surprising in hindsight is that key people who worked with FC on a daily basis failed to see the signs, and if they were they failed in the same way. The Rockminer story is testament to that.

I also would like to know the answers to some of the other questions asked in the thread that have gone un answered.  Namely:

What BE200 remains unsold and in stock ?  
Based on AM management, about 1000-2000 devices worth. The exact number depends on some quality factors.

Is there a rough break down of the 10M required?   Is it possible to break it up in to milestones as to limit the initial risk for people that may want to get involved?
$2M for fixed costs. The rest is the initial order + potential profit. You can target a lower amount, which either precludes any profit for AM or makes the fixed costs a significant amount. FC mentioned that the minimum order should be around $6M for it to make economical sense, but he said that doesn't include any profit margin.

What is the turn around time on a BE300 order,  to packaged chips in hand?
2-3 months.

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March 19, 2015, 04:04:27 PM
 #26245

Group buy of BE300 chips anyone?

Under development Modular UPGRADEABLE Miner (MUM). Looking for investors.
Changing one PCB with screwdriver and you have brand new miner in hand... Plug&Play, scalable from one module to thousands.
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March 19, 2015, 04:12:57 PM
 #26246

Group buy of BE300 chips anyone?

Back in the days of Avalon chips there were group buys that accumulated that kind of money. I think there could be people interested in buying raw chips in order to turn them into miners. That being said, $10M is a lot of money, man.

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March 19, 2015, 04:19:08 PM
 #26247

Group buy of BE300 chips anyone?

there is nothing better than brand new bathroom tiled with asic chips.....

Having chips is just a beginning of a long way to have pcb, from this point you have to design large scale farm - as it is not profitable to produce domestic user type of a tin. Than you have to find a DC.... And rather one which does NOT steal electricity and the one which will not rob your precious farm.... I am afraid that having 10 $$$ mln in the pocket is not enough....

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March 19, 2015, 06:36:17 PM
 #26248

Yeah, O.k.    Roll Eyes  I actually profited wildly on A.M.  I didn't lose money and I still have much more than you ever will have.


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March 19, 2015, 06:51:21 PM
 #26249


c) You may have to prove your contract. Please make sure that you got proper documentation ready. However, if you hold a contract through one of the platforms, there may be a consolidated method which doesn't require proof.


And on a more serious note - what do you mean by ''You may have to prove your contract''? How can we prove our contract more than we proved it when transferring from hashie by showing that we have access to the same email that we registered on the platform or to provide some screenshots from havelock? Or are you talking about the case where we take legal action?

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March 19, 2015, 07:26:03 PM
 #26250

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March 19, 2015, 07:35:32 PM
 #26251

Jutarul,  yes i am very frustrated.  However thank you for helping answer some of these questions.  

Some points to add though:

1) Making a public statement saying that AM has enough capital to move forward regardless of BTC price,  on basically the eve of a make or break product,  while not having funding in place to produce said product, was EXTREMELY misleading.   People bought on that statement and made decisions on that statement.   No one was  thinking, that BE300 is going to get held up because of MONEY of all things.
The problem with words is that half the time they get misinterpreted. Just because a company stays in business, doesn't mean that they execute certain projects. Did google fail because they didn't bring google glasses to the mass market?


I can not agree more strongly with teek here, it was extremely misleading / total bull.
That statement should never have been made.

I would guess some people used the time to cash out, while we were kept in the dark.
It also seems ridiculous to me that anyone should state that the TO of BE300 costs should not have been seen as a necessity.
AM is a BTC mining venture, the core business relied on those funds being available to do the TO.

edited because i cant use quote properly....
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March 19, 2015, 07:50:42 PM
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The problem with words is that half the time they get misinterpreted. Just because a company stays in business, doesn't mean that they execute certain projects. Did google fail because they didn't bring google glasses to the mass market?

So if AM stays in business, but doesn't produce THEIR ONLY enterprise as was expected, what would they in business for? Rape victim call centre? A better analogy would have been if Google wrecklessly, secretly and misleadingly lost all of their technology-related business completely, and focused strictly on gardening.  That was a bullshit answer and everyone knows it, without mining hardware Bitquan is nothing but a shell. I doubt even the R&D is profitable if you don't produce chips yourselves.

Right now there seems to be some money stuck in accounts, only FC has access to.

You said it yourself. The name of the game is to get a net return on every BTC invested. That's what investors ultimately look for. FC was extremely aware of that point. BTC prices where still in the 370 USD range when sample chips got received. That's when the financing should have been secured (by funding the accounts). It didn't happen.

I don't know how to respond to that. FC is an adult and he was repeatedly asked to delegate and improve certain conditions. He didn't comply with the requests. The desolate state surrounding providing information to shareholders was no secret. What is more surprising in hindsight is that key people who worked with FC on a daily basis failed to see the signs, and if they were they failed in the same way. The Rockminer story is testament to that.

All of these answers pointing the finger at FC begs the question.  Who is responsible (or more importantly liable) for FC's actions? The same entity that profited from his actions while he was on their team, the company. If the company was not aware of his fraudulent activity and deceipt, that is their responsibility, and liability should not fall on the shareholders.  These were not market-related problems, and they were preventable.

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March 19, 2015, 08:03:47 PM
 #26253

Group buy of BE300 chips anyone?

Back in the days of Avalon chips there were group buys that accumulated that kind of money. I think there could be people interested in buying raw chips in order to turn them into miners. That being said, $10M is a lot of money, man.

The Avalon chips turned into a disaster and people lost out due to shady Avalon. You are telling me you would trust AM with a pre order of any type? Amazing how people never learn...
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March 19, 2015, 08:31:13 PM
 #26254

A quick update re:AMHash

There is a good chance that contract holders will get a significant portion of their principal back. The details are currently being worked out. Please understand that there is currently a lot of blame shifting going on, but AM management shows an active interest in breaking the gridlock in order to be able to concentrate on getting the business back on track.

Right now I'd like to provide the following clues
a) You will not get 100% on the principal amount. While this may hurt AMHash buyers, please note that AM is certainly not making a profit from this failed product in any way.
b) If you consider litigation or are in talks with a lawyer, you may want to wait this one out. Chances are that after taking into account the cost of litigation or lawyer fees you end up with less %. Also the contractual situation is very complex - you may end up suing the wrong company.
c) You may have to prove your contract. Please make sure that you got proper documentation ready. However, if you hold a contract through one of the platforms, there may be a consolidated method which doesn't require proof.
d) If AM recovers from this crisis, there may be more coming down the pipeline for affected people in form of discounts.

I'd like to remind everyone that I am not a company representative, which means I cannot warrant for the correctness of the information provided. Unfortunately the company cannot announce anything until the details have been worked out. Act accordingly.

Also, if you'd be so nice and cross post this to inform AMHash holders - I don't have a map for where AMHash was marketed.

Thank-you Jutarul for the update, look forward to seeing how much we will be given back for our Amhash shares.
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March 19, 2015, 11:03:38 PM
 #26255

Thank-you Jutarul for the update, look forward to seeing how much we will be given back for our Amhash shares.

I'll start the bidding

33,461 @ BTC0.1

*Please note that my offer is 0.1 total not per share.

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March 20, 2015, 04:48:19 AM
 #26256

Thank-you Jutarul for the update, look forward to seeing how much we will be given back for our Amhash shares.

I'll start the bidding

33,461 @ BTC0.1

*Please note that my offer is 0.1 total not per share.

Are doing trying a badly constructed joke?

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March 20, 2015, 07:48:24 AM
 #26257

Thank-you Jutarul for the update, look forward to seeing how much we will be given back for our Amhash shares.

I'll start the bidding

33,461 @ BTC0.1

*Please note that my offer is 0.1 total not per share.


Divs paid back to IPO shareholders give a 35% return from amhash investment.

So expect anything from 0 - 65% back. I doubt they will go over the amount paid back to date. So sorry for anyone who bought during a high.

just my speculation
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March 20, 2015, 12:24:54 PM
 #26258

Thank-you Jutarul for the update, look forward to seeing how much we will be given back for our Amhash shares.

I'll start the bidding

33,461 @ BTC0.1

*Please note that my offer is 0.1 total not per share.


Divs paid back to IPO shareholders give a 35% return from amhash investment.

So expect anything from 0 - 65% back. I doubt they will go over the amount paid back to date. So sorry for anyone who bought during a high.

just my speculation

Don't expect to much, it will be closer to 0% than to 65%.
Since these shares bought part of the future mining revenue of the mining farm, hence the mining farm is gone...

Its AM & RM's job to maintain and look after the mine and keep it functioning.
Had they been honest about how the mine was setup and functioning, where its cheap power was coming from, would they have sold 3.6PH........ they lied and cheated people out of their money...... the honest thing for AM to do at this point would be make some kind of settlement offer.

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March 20, 2015, 07:00:29 PM
 #26259

A quick update re:AMHash

There is a good chance that contract holders will get a significant portion of their principal back. The details are currently being worked out. Please understand that there is currently a lot of blame shifting going on, but AM management shows an active interest in breaking the gridlock in order to be able to concentrate on getting the business back on track.

Right now I'd like to provide the following clues
a) You will not get 100% on the principal amount. While this may hurt AMHash buyers, please note that AM is certainly not making a profit from this failed product in any way.
b) If you consider litigation or are in talks with a lawyer, you may want to wait this one out. Chances are that after taking into account the cost of litigation or lawyer fees you end up with less %. Also the contractual situation is very complex - you may end up suing the wrong company.
c) You may have to prove your contract. Please make sure that you got proper documentation ready. However, if you hold a contract through one of the platforms, there may be a consolidated method which doesn't require proof.
d) If AM recovers from this crisis, there may be more coming down the pipeline for affected people in form of discounts.

I'd like to remind everyone that I am not a company representative, which means I cannot warrant for the correctness of the information provided. Unfortunately the company cannot announce anything until the details have been worked out. Act accordingly.

Also, if you'd be so nice and cross post this to inform AMHash holders - I don't have a map for where AMHash was marketed.

As a long time AM shareholder, it feels really shit to see all this focus on AMhash, and how they might get something back. Why the fuck is AM shareholders not the main focus here? After all we are the original investors who got the company running in the first place. I guess I should have listened to my gut feeling and sold all shares as soon as FC started dicking around with Rockminer and other similar ventures to siphon off profits. I honestly feel this started out as a legit company and investment, but ever since Rockminer, Datatank, AMhash and all the other bullshit, it's quite clear the main focus was not profit for original AM shareholders, but siphoning whatever profits off to other entities.

IMHO, it feels like this turned out to be a long, drawn out, exit scam.
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March 20, 2015, 07:16:10 PM
 #26260

I agree with holographic on this one. We still don't know where FC is, what really happened. We know nothing. He's gone and AM is dead. AMhash was just a sideline. Wouldn't have existed if AM never had.
Why are people now thanking jutural for speculative "promises" about getting money back? He's a board member ffs if he knows anything, which I doubt, he should know what really went on and obviously had been going on since around the time dividends stopped from AM. That's when AM should have liquidated, but I guess FC and co. Wanted to grab a few final btc before fucking off into the night.
Anyway, we know one thing for sure, there is officially not a single honest btc security. Nada, they are all fucking shams.
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