ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[aahzmundus]

The way I see it, with the current track record of ASICMINER the bar is set REALLY high for competition.  So many of these new companies are probably getting funded by people who feel they "missed the boat" with asicminer and they want to get that experience.  I myself invested some in AMC just because I can afford to, and diversification never hurts...  But honestly here the second they make any mistake that makes them look weak compared to ASICMINER money will run.

I am investing in AMC, but a majority of my holdings are going to remain in ASICMINER.  Anyone who dumps ASICMINER shares will find plenty of buyers.

I just have this feeling that the ASICminer stock is a bit bubbly right now. I sold 40 TAT microshares yesterday and having mixed feelings about it. I may never be able to buy them back at the price I sold them for but then again I may buy them back at a lower price if the bubble bursts.

It reminds me of Apple going up to $700 per share and then dropping back to $400. Which made people who sold at the top really happy as they can buy back lower. But then again Apple could have gone to over $1000 and they would have felt really miserable.

Is the AM share price too high or is it too low? Only time will tell.

Current APR is still >40%  and climbing as the share price falls... I would say we are fine.

[ShroomsKit]

It's not dropping too fast and i think it will go back up quite quick.

[BlackLilac Jordan]

I just have this feeling that the ASICminer stock is a bit bubbly right now. I sold 40 TAT microshares yesterday and having mixed feelings about it. I may never be able to buy them back at the price I sold them for but then again I may buy them back at a lower price if the bubble bursts.

You want to see a bubble burst? Keep an eye on Basic mining.

I noticed that. How is a mining bond doing under 100 GH/s valued at over BTC5000? Do they have a huge amount of pre-orders or is that a pure bubble?

[runeks]

people are holding shares...
few weak hands will buy back soon.

I feel the price is overvalued right now. They will buy back at lower price probably, below BTC3

I sold majority of my holdings at BTC3.47 yesterday.

I disagree with this statement. Granted, in Bitcoin mining everyone is always looking for a month to 3 month ROI. However, I feel like with this security having so much future potential (mining hardware at cost + hardware sells + generation2 chips), ~30% APY is a completely reasonable price for one share.

Also, there is quite a bit of buy support above 3 BTC, with 192 bids above 3 BTC on Bitfunder (I don't visit the other exchanges so I'm not sure about elsewhere.)

I sold as well.

Took my profit and now will invest in AMC.

I suggest you read this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=241415.0

people are holding shares...
few weak hands will buy back soon.

I feel the price is overvalued right now. They will buy back at lower price probably, below BTC3

I sold majority of my holdings at BTC3.47 yesterday.

I disagree with this statement. Granted, in Bitcoin mining everyone is always looking for a month to 3 month ROI. However, I feel like with this security having so much future potential (mining hardware at cost + hardware sells + generation2 chips), ~30% APY is a completely reasonable price for one share.

Also, there is quite a bit of buy support above 3 BTC, with 192 bids above 3 BTC on Bitfunder (I don't visit the other exchanges so I'm not sure about elsewhere.)

You realize that several companies are coming out with 28nm hardware in 3 months or so, while AM is THINKING about developing 56nm hardware. Once the 28nm asic hardware hit, they will blow the 120nm current AM hardware right out of water (basically 10 times more power efficient than AM hardware while producing much less heat and occupy much less space).

3 month ROI sounds about right, I'm definitely not going to gamble on 3 year ROI, actually I think there's a 90% chance AM share will be worth below BTC1 in one year

1. Companies have promised to come out with hardware in 3 months. There's a big difference. I'm not saying they won't succeed, only that a promise is all it is.

2. ASICMiner is not just thinking, they are actively developing, and have written that October is the release date at the earliest. That's far from thinking about it.

3. KNCMiner uses a 28 nm process. Here's what their latest update says:

So it is with great pleasure that we can finally announce our Jupiter is now a 400 GH/s device and therefore Saturn is a 200 GH/s device.

[...]

We have previously specified the power consumption of the Jupiter device at a 1000 watts. We have now received indication from our chip manufacturer that this may be lower.

[...]

So until you hear from us again on this, we would like to reaffirm that Jupiter will be less than 1000 watts and Saturn less than 500 watts.

So power usage might be less, but they only promise, at most 400 MH/J. The ASICMiner Blades are 10 GH/s at 80W, so that's 125 MH/J, or only 3.2 times less than KNCMiner - and we're comparing a 130nm process to a 28nm process here!

The thing is, 28nm is not magic. It is not a magic button you push that makes all chips produced at this node size use little power. The designers have to pay special attention to power usage, as is clearly shown by both BFL's real power figures and KNCMiner's promised power estimates.

So if KNCMiner is only, say, 4 times less power hungry than the current ASICMiner 130 nm chip, will ASICMiner's 55nm chip completely eat away this advantage? I don't know, but I'd say the odds are pretty good that going from 130nm to 55nm will give you a 4-fold increase in power efficiency, making ASICMiner on par with KNCMiner's 28 nm technology.

[bobboooiie]

I just have this feeling that the ASICminer stock is a bit bubbly right now. I sold 40 TAT microshares yesterday and having mixed feelings about it. I may never be able to buy them back at the price I sold them for but then again I may buy them back at a lower price if the bubble bursts.

You want to see a bubble burst? Keep an eye on Basic mining.

I noticed that. How is a mining bond doing under 100 GH/s valued at over BTC5000? Do they have a huge amount of pre-orders or is that a pure bubble?

200gh/s and some more avalon/s on the way. They also are holding some asicminner shares and have fund for reinvestment. Iam pretty sure at 2btc/share they have pretty much above 10% APR at the moment , so it might be just right price for the moment and not bubble. It might be just optical that 2btc/share seems to be a lot but they only have 5000shares issued.

[dhenson]

I noticed that. How is a mining bond doing under 100 GH/s valued at over BTC5000? Do they have a huge amount of pre-orders or is that a pure bubble?

The crazy price rise was on super thin volume, then it got hyped up because someone was willing to gamble.  It really doesn't make sense to project out a company value when the market is so thin that you could never sell @ market rate.

Obviously in this case company value <> market price * shares outstanding.

[twentyseventy]

The way I see it, with the current track record of ASICMINER the bar is set REALLY high for competition.  So many of these new companies are probably getting funded by people who feel they "missed the boat" with asicminer and they want to get that experience.  I myself invested some in AMC just because I can afford to, and diversification never hurts...  But honestly here the second they make any mistake that makes them look weak compared to ASICMINER money will run.

I am investing in AMC, but a majority of my holdings are going to remain in ASICMINER.  Anyone who dumps ASICMINER shares will find plenty of buyers.

I just have this feeling that the ASICminer stock is a bit bubbly right now. I sold 40 TAT microshares yesterday and having mixed feelings about it. I may never be able to buy them back at the price I sold them for but then again I may buy them back at a lower price if the bubble bursts.

It reminds me of Apple going up to $700 per share and then dropping back to $400. Which made people who sold at the top really happy as they can buy back lower. But then again Apple could have gone to over $1000 and they would have felt really miserable.

Is the AM share price too high or is it too low? Only time will tell.

This is exactly how I feel. Cashed out about half my TATs around .034 and waiting to see what the next few days is like. I still feel like .035 is too high, in any case.

I don't like being cashed out with the recent hash rate increase / lucky streak lately, however. Though it's not like the price has even been linked to the hash rate 

[dhenson]

This is exactly how I feel. Cashed out about half my TATs around .034 and waiting to see what the next few days is like. I still feel like .035 is too high, in any case.

I don't like being cashed out with the recent hash rate increase / lucky streak lately, however. Though it's not like the price has even been linked to the hash rate 

I'm pretty sure those cashing out now will regret it.  We will have a full week of hardware sales this week and if they keep hashing at full capacity we could see record dividends next Wednesday.

[gramma]

The AMC PT looks promising enough that I've thrown a smidge of coin at it.  But I have to wonder how will dividends be calculated?  If the costs eat up most of the revenues, dividends will suck.  No, I don't have magical visibility into ASICminer's financials, but Friedcat has a track record of paying healthy dividends, and the share prices reflect all aspects of his performance to date.  Will the other outfit enrich themselves, or will they enrich everyone?

Diversifying a bit, but still solidly in Friedcat's camp.

[TheFuneral]

The way I see it, with the current track record of ASICMINER the bar is set REALLY high for competition.  So many of these new companies are probably getting funded by people who feel they "missed the boat" with asicminer and they want to get that experience.  I myself invested some in AMC just because I can afford to, and diversification never hurts...  But honestly here the second they make any mistake that makes them look weak compared to ASICMINER money will run.

I am investing in AMC, but a majority of my holdings are going to remain in ASICMINER.  Anyone who dumps ASICMINER shares will find plenty of buyers.

I just have this feeling that the ASICminer stock is a bit bubbly right now. I sold 40 TAT microshares yesterday and having mixed feelings about it. I may never be able to buy them back at the price I sold them for but then again I may buy them back at a lower price if the bubble bursts.

It reminds me of Apple going up to $700 per share and then dropping back to $400. Which made people who sold at the top really happy as they can buy back lower. But then again Apple could have gone to over $1000 and they would have felt really miserable.

Is the AM share price too high or is it too low? Only time will tell.

Current APR is still >40%  and climbing as the share price falls... I would say we are fine.

why is APR being less than 40% a good thing?

[runeks]

The way I see it, with the current track record of ASICMINER the bar is set REALLY high for competition.  So many of these new companies are probably getting funded by people who feel they "missed the boat" with asicminer and they want to get that experience.  I myself invested some in AMC just because I can afford to, and diversification never hurts...  But honestly here the second they make any mistake that makes them look weak compared to ASICMINER money will run.

I am investing in AMC, but a majority of my holdings are going to remain in ASICMINER.  Anyone who dumps ASICMINER shares will find plenty of buyers.

I just have this feeling that the ASICminer stock is a bit bubbly right now. I sold 40 TAT microshares yesterday and having mixed feelings about it. I may never be able to buy them back at the price I sold them for but then again I may buy them back at a lower price if the bubble bursts.

It reminds me of Apple going up to $700 per share and then dropping back to $400. Which made people who sold at the top really happy as they can buy back lower. But then again Apple could have gone to over $1000 and they would have felt really miserable.

Is the AM share price too high or is it too low? Only time will tell.

Current APR is still >40%  and climbing as the share price falls... I would say we are fine.

why is APR being less than 40% a good thing?

> greater than
< less than

[tkone]

sell sell sell!! cash out cash out!

so i can buy more shares for cheaper with dividendz money

please please keep cashing out! i love this lol

[ShroomsKit]

sell sell sell!! cash out cash out!

so i can buy more shares for cheaper with dividendz money

please please keep cashing out! i love this lol

I seriously wonder how much people really are buying when they come up with this standard answer.
My guess is most will buy 0 and the rest maybe 1 to 3 shares.

[freedomno1]

I noticed that. How is a mining bond doing under 100 GH/s valued at over BTC5000? Do they have a huge amount of pre-orders or is that a pure bubble?

The crazy price rise was on super thin volume, then it got hyped up because someone was willing to gamble.  It really doesn't make sense to project out a company value when the market is so thin that you could never sell @ market rate.

Obviously in this case company value <> market price * shares outstanding.

I would have bought puts but no one is issuing any options   (Regarding Basic)
Well if they don't break not sure if they would cut 1/10 as well without issue don't recall a precedence before that would be one profitable bug lol
But anyways its a 1:10 split so liquidity will probably help there

If your going to say Sell at least say why lol with details ^^
Examples AMC Announcment Chinese Announcement incoming lol
Counterexample Buy Buy Buy
Friedcat announcement coming soon enough

EDIT IN: For general info do your own math if you are considering competitor evaluations
This does not constitute any financial opinion or advice but just general information

A notification has been posted to AMC-PT.  You have received this email
because you own shares of AMC-PT.

-----
VMC And AMC Are Proud To Announce The "World's Fastest Bitcoin Mining Chip".

SPRINGFIELD, MO, - June 27, 2013 - Active Mining Corporation (AMC) and Virtual Mining

Corporation (VMC) are announcing today the preliminary results from VMC's partner

eASIC (www.easic.com) regarding the performance of the Fast-Hash-ONE Bitcoin mining chip,

built on eASIC's top of the line 28nm technology.

Each chip holds 20 miner cores, with an expected frequency from 800MHz (16GH/s)

to 1GHz (20GH/s). This is possible thanks to eASIC's expertise and AMC's heavily

optimized design, making Fast-Hash-ONE the "World's Fastest Bitcoin Mining Chip".

The chip is expected in limited quantities in Q4 2013 and fully available in Q1 2014

and will be the backbone of AMC's drive to be the "World's Largest Bitcoin Mining

Farm".

See our thread on bitcointalk.org for more information.

-----

Thank you for using BTC-TC

[americandesi]

sell sell sell!! cash out cash out!

so i can buy more shares for cheaper with dividendz money

please please keep cashing out! i love this lol

I seriously wonder how much people really are buying when they come up with this standard answer.
My guess is most will buy 0 and the rest maybe 1 to 3 shares.

he he.. lol.. +1

[AMuppInTime]

It reminds me of Apple going up to $700 per share and then dropping back to $400. Which made people who sold at the top really happy as they can buy back lower.

AAPL is a bargain under $400 - EPS around 40 is healthy, but the kicker is the MASSIVE pile of cash they are sitting on. 140+ BILLIONS. With a B.
To put it in perspective, Google has around 50 Billions, and that's already considered massive.
The problem in finance (and in politics) is that too many focus on the group consensus, which usually has little to do with the actual details of the company being looked at. "Steve Jobs died!" & "Apple has lost its touch!" have led too many investors that were just going with the flow to jump ship.
Apple could buy all of Tesla right now, and it wouldn't dent its pocket. Let that Sink in - Tesla, even with the tripling of current share prices past few months - is worth (corrected) 12 Billions.

Now that was an extensive tangent and I apologize. But there is no doubt that we are in a similar type of boat right here with ASICMINER: Half of us have probably never invested in stocks before and are "going with the flow." Great learning experience rest assured. If rumors or hearsay keep scaring you away, then go rest in the shade. There is no doubt BFL has started shipping and others will soon too with better tech even, but AM has shown no sign of faltering and has been CRUSHING the network distribution on every scaling up. 20%+ and they appear to have blades waiting to scale further. They bet on maximizing older tech and won, and I'm sure this has something to do with their decision of not going into 28nm chips. Currently you can see that they've stepped out of the sheer mining game, and are moving more into retail by selling equipment. Even better with the headstart they have. Sure, they had to slash price and it appears they were pressured in doing so. But this will be a learning experience for next time - meanwhile I think the USB miners will sell ok, maybe would have been better to reduce the price to .7 even. AM is grossly undervalued. A "Bubble" might appear with unsure investors doubting, but it doesn't really matter to the ones who look at numbers.

The things that worry me:
Tax status in China  - Will the government just blindly let this go on forever? I think not...
AM regulatory status as a company in China - Is AM remotely legal? Classified as a manufacturing plant? What could go wrong there?
scaleability vs. efficiency - friedcat has shown he could deliver. The scaleability is a problem of its own and one different from efficiency.
BTC itself - While we look at AM to keep busy, we forget to see the decline of BTC/USD happening - We need to promote Bitcoin and show the world it is a viable currency for all.
Risk - friedcat could disappear from one day to the next, and there's nothing you could do about it. (NB: Valid for all Exchange/PT holders)

So the discount we see in the share price likely takes some of these into account.


Warren Buffet said it best:
"To refer to a personal taste of mine, I'm going to buy hamburgers the rest of my life. When hamburgers go down in price, we sing the 'Hallelujah Chorus' in the Buffett household. When hamburgers go up in price, we weep. For most people, it's the same with everything in life they will be buying -- except stocks. When stocks go down and you can get more for your money, people don't like them anymore."

*edit*
TLDR - It might drop in value, but like Apple, value of the investment goes beyond surface.

[freedomno1]

This is the current page
For Asic general info
AMC has made their announcement usual's know where to look 

[Eric Muyser]

It reminds me of Apple going up to $700 per share and then dropping back to $400. Which made people who sold at the top really happy as they can buy back lower.

AAPL is a bargain under $400 - EPS around 40 is healthy, but the kicker is the MASSIVE pile of cash they are sitting on. 140+ BILLIONS. With a B.
To put it in perspective, Google has around 50 Billions, and that's already considered massive.
The problem in finance (and in politics) is that too many focus on the group consensus, which usually has little to do with the actual details of the company being looked at. "Steve Jobs died!" & "Apple has lost its touch!" have led too many investors that were just going with the flow to jump ship.
Apple could buy all of Tesla right now, and it wouldn't dent its pocket. Let that Sink in - Tesla, even with the tripling of current share prices past few months - is barely worth around 5 Billion.

Now that was an extensive tangent and I apologize. But there is no doubt that we are in a similar type of boat right here with ASICMINER: Half of us have probably never invested in stocks before and are "going with the flow." Great learning experience rest assured. If rumors or hearsay keep scaring you away, then go rest in the shade. There is no doubt BFL has started shipping and others will soon too with better tech even, but AM has shown no sign of faltering and has been CRUSHING the network distribution on every scaling up. 20%+ and they appear to have blades waiting to scale further. They bet on maximizing older tech and won, and I'm sure this has something to do with their decision of not going into 28nm chips. Currently you can see that they've stepped out of the sheer mining game, and are moving more into retail by selling equipment. Even better with the headstart they have. Sure, they had to slash price and it appears they were pressured in doing so. But this will be a learning experience for next time - meanwhile I think the USB miners will sell ok, maybe would have been better to reduce the price to .7 even. AM is grossly undervalued. A "Bubble" might appear with unsure investors doubting, but it doesn't really matter to the ones who look at numbers.

The things that worry me:
Tax status in China  - Will the government just blindly let this go on forever? I think not...
AM regulatory status as a company in China - Is AM remotely legal? Classified as a manufacturing plant? What could go wrong there?
scaleability vs. efficiency - friedcat has shown he could deliver. The scaleability is a problem of its own and one different from efficiency.
BTC itself - While we look at AM to keep busy, we forget to see the decline of BTC/USD happening - We need to promote Bitcoin and show the world it is a viable currency for all.
Risk - friedcat could disappear from one day to the next, and there's nothing you could do about it. (NB: Valid for all Exchange/PT holders)

So the discount we see in the share price likely takes some of these into account.


Warren Buffet said it best:
"To refer to a personal taste of mine, I'm going to buy hamburgers the rest of my life. When hamburgers go down in price, we sing the 'Hallelujah Chorus' in the Buffett household. When hamburgers go up in price, we weep. For most people, it's the same with everything in life they will be buying -- except stocks. When stocks go down and you can get more for your money, people don't like them anymore."

*edit*
TLDR - It might drop in value, but like Apple, value of the investment goes beyond surface.

This man knows what he's talking about.

[tkone]

i love how so much speculation on this thread, help keep price lower,
i hope it will last for more months of dividends

[Rival]

AM could go to 100btc or .0002 btc, but it only matters on the day you sell. Everything else is just entertainment.