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Author Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It  (Read 3914550 times)
JimiQ84
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July 07, 2013, 04:13:33 PM
 #9501

Now, lets get back to AM. I hope that friedcat can finally find a accountant competent enough to produce some financial reports, so we can find out, how AM is actually doing.
For fuck sake guys, this is beyond pathetic. A multimillion Co can not find a accountant? In China!? Honestly, this is absurd and those guys better be embarrassed.
While I would be happy too if they produced financial reports, honestly you repeating every other day is getting quite tiresome.
Also, I don't know why you pretend to believe that they "weren't able" to find an accountant, while it is quite obvious that it's a deliberate choice.
Don't hold your breath, remember Huawei.


Good to know it makes you feel uncomfortable. Only guy who can help you is friedcat and his accountant. You can just pretend or pretend to believe what ever you want but the fact is - none of us have seen any reports from AM.

I understand why none of you really care for proper reporting. First, most of you can not read the reports and for second, living in a world of fantasy is way more fun.
For f**k sake, there is even a special naval gazing, spit balling and circle jerking thread for this: ASICMINER Speculation Thread. LOL Smiley

Friedcat, as a shareholder I am not happy about you hiding the numbers from the shareholders.
Frankly, I do not give a flying fuck what you guys are used to or not over there in China. I like to see the numbers every month... as simple as that.Friedcat, if this is something you can not manage, please let me know.
Cheers!


If you doesn't like lack of reports than just sell your shares and GTFO, thanks :-)
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Lohoris
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July 07, 2013, 04:21:14 PM
 #9502

Good to know it makes you feel uncomfortable. Only guy who can help you is friedcat and his accountant. You can just pretend or pretend to believe what ever you want but the fact is - none of us have seen any reports from AM.

I understand why none of you really care for proper reporting. [...]

Friedcat, as a shareholder I am not happy about you hiding the numbers from the shareholders.
[...]

Again, I do care, but complaining won't help, and I really can't stand this useless complaints going on and on.

It is a fact that they could produce reports but chose not to.
Take this fact into consideration when you decide how much those shares are valuable to you.
It's as simple as that.
Stop whining.

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DefaultTrust is very BAD.
SOSLOVE868
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July 07, 2013, 04:25:17 PM
 #9503

Now, lets get back to AM. I hope that friedcat can finally find a accountant competent enough to produce some financial reports, so we can find out, how AM is actually doing.
For fuck sake guys, this is beyond pathetic. A multimillion Co can not find a accountant? In China!? Honestly, this is absurd and those guys better be embarrassed.
While I would be happy too if they produced financial reports, honestly you repeating every other day is getting quite tiresome.
Also, I don't know why you pretend to believe that they "weren't able" to find an accountant, while it is quite obvious that it's a deliberate choice.
Don't hold your breath, remember Huawei.


Good to know it makes you feel uncomfortable. Only guy who can help you is friedcat and his accountant. You can just pretend or pretend to believe what ever you want but the fact is - none of us have seen any reports from AM.

I understand why none of you really care for proper reporting. First, most of you can not read the reports and for second, living in a world of fantasy is way more fun.
For f**k sake, there is even a special naval gazing, spit balling and circle jerking thread for this: ASICMINER Speculation Thread. LOL Smiley

Friedcat, as a shareholder I am not happy about you hiding the numbers from the shareholders.
Frankly, I do not give a flying fuck what you guys are used to or not over there in China. I like to see the numbers every month... as simple as that.Friedcat, if this is something you can not manage, please let me know.
Cheers!


If you doesn't like lack of reports than just sell your shares and GTFO, thanks :-)

+1 Sold your shares and go away . No body really care a report or not,if they can produce one report it is great, if they can't so what is the problem? Remember lot of real wolrd scandals indicate accounting report can become full of  no sense and false ,andif someone is liar,than he can managing a lieying report.
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July 07, 2013, 04:28:24 PM
 #9504

+1 Sold your shares and go away .
This is right.

No body really care a report or not,if they can produce one report it is great, if they can't so what is the problem? Remember lot of scandal indicate accounting report can't full of  no sense.if someone is liar,than he can managing a lieying report.
This is very wrong.

Reports are very useful, and if they are forged there is still a chance you can notice that.
Of course there is also the risk of paranoids misreading the reports and crying outrage when they instead were genuine.

Likely they keep at least some spreadsheet, so it would only be matter of cleaning it a little and showing it.
If they don't, it's because they have something to hide, and this is bad.
If they don't have any accounting at all, run for your lives.

That sait, whining here won't help so I agree with the "sell and STFU" sentiment.

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EskimoBob
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July 07, 2013, 05:29:16 PM
 #9505

For some idiotic reason some of you think that I am trying to hurt you so you get all defensive. Why? Because I ask for a simple financial report? Seriously guys... perpetual amateur hour?

Funny thing is, I am not asking those guys to stand on their fkn ears. How do they run a Co id they have no idea wtf is going on with the finances? Lot's of cool ideas/Co's have blown and gone under ONLY because they did not bother counting the coin. Positive bank balance is not necessarily a profit! Happens every day in the real world.
 
You know what, fuck it. Lets have another 400 pages of brain farts and absurd speculations. It's your coin riding on this too. At least most of you are happy Smiley Ignorance is a bliss, after all.

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
velacreations
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July 07, 2013, 05:39:51 PM
 #9506

For some idiotic reason some of you think that I am trying to hurt you so you get all defensive. Why? Because I ask for a simple financial report? Seriously guys... perpetual amateur hour?
No one thinks you are trying to hurt them, we're just tired of reading the same post over and over.

How many times do we have to read your asking for financial reports?


SOSLOVE868
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July 07, 2013, 06:07:07 PM
 #9507

+1 Sold your shares and go away .
This is right.

No body really care a report or not,if they can produce one report it is great, if they can't so what is the problem? Remember lot of scandal indicate accounting report can't full of  no sense.if someone is liar,than he can managing a lieying report.
This is very wrong.

Reports are very useful, and if they are forged there is still a chance you can notice that.
Of course there is also the risk of paranoids misreading the reports and crying outrage when they instead were genuine.

Likely they keep at least some spreadsheet, so it would only be matter of cleaning it a little and showing it.
If they don't, it's because they have something to hide, and this is bad.
If they don't have any accounting at all, run for your lives.

That sait, whining here won't help so I agree with the "sell and STFU" sentiment.

I think the mining revenue is 100% transparent already...It was only thing depend on you think that Friedcat is a credited cat or next  Enron..
From past history that indicated absolutely not needs for a report to securing credit stand of Friedcat, He is doing 100% absolutely over delivery our expectations. If there are still some guys says we need a report, I would say most of other BTC related companies does not produce report either, I mean limited transparency may benefit to protecting their core business' competitiveness.  Like if Friedcat say that they produce their hardware at 100 RMB...would you think people will pay 25 BTC for it, since it decrease its revenue.
I do prefer Friedcat stay as usual, for most shareholders will care about more in weekly dividend, and share price is adjusted with predictable by refer to past performance and its current hash rate.
One more thing , to hiring a accountant dealing with weekly report also a complex job....normally real world companies taken a month to write their yearly report to helping them exploit it by sent-out positive information.





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July 07, 2013, 06:08:18 PM
 #9508

For some idiotic reason some of you think that I am trying to hurt you so you get all defensive. Why? Because I ask for a simple financial report? Seriously guys... perpetual amateur hour?
No one thinks you are trying to hurt them, we're just tired of reading the same post over and over.

How many times do we have to read your asking for financial reports?
If I am correct it's part of the questionnaire:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1M7wigyDWjKjabHKdC7msaEfXvYaNxtMbbmTIRss8EqU/viewform?pli=1

Just make sure it gets to the top of the list.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
ThickAsThieves
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July 07, 2013, 06:11:29 PM
 #9509

For some idiotic reason some of you think that I am trying to hurt you so you get all defensive. Why? Because I ask for a simple financial report? Seriously guys... perpetual amateur hour?
No one thinks you are trying to hurt them, we're just tired of reading the same post over and over.

How many times do we have to read your asking for financial reports?
If I am correct it's part of the questionnaire:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1M7wigyDWjKjabHKdC7msaEfXvYaNxtMbbmTIRss8EqU/viewform?pli=1

Just make sure it gets to the top of the list.


The question about a financial report was included recently, but Friedcat has not responded for a week or so.
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July 07, 2013, 06:13:17 PM
 #9510

For some idiotic reason some of you think that I am trying to hurt you so you get all defensive. Why? Because I ask for a simple financial report? Seriously guys... perpetual amateur hour?
No one thinks you are trying to hurt them, we're just tired of reading the same post over and over.

How many times do we have to read your asking for financial reports?
If I am correct it's part of the questionnaire:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1M7wigyDWjKjabHKdC7msaEfXvYaNxtMbbmTIRss8EqU/viewform?pli=1

Just make sure it gets to the top of the list.


The question about a financial report was included recently, but Friedcat has not responded for a week or so.

He just reply my PM today....confirming to the shares transfer.
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July 07, 2013, 06:30:49 PM
 #9511

Because this thread really needs a nice pic Tongue:

The kids arrived today:



Thanks BTCGuild and ASICMINER!

Asicminer Hashrate Charts @ www.asicminercharts.com

Donations BTC: 1SmiGSGWXzD5aZhmw3jyfpBFCgiki45MT
Lohoris
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July 07, 2013, 06:37:38 PM
 #9512

I think the mining revenue is 100% transparent already...
Uh?
Of course it isn't.
A proper report would include how much he spends on hardware, on paying employees, on electricity...

1LohorisJie8bGGG7X4dCS9MAVsTEbzrhu
DefaultTrust is very BAD.
Vycid
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July 07, 2013, 06:43:35 PM
 #9513

I think the mining revenue is 100% transparent already...
Uh?
Of course it isn't.
A proper report would include how much he spends on hardware, on paying employees, on electricity...


The electricity bit is quite important, in fact. I've been speculating $0.06/kWh, because he's in Guangdong province... but that could be incorrect if he is elsewhere, or has a bulk rate, or if the rates I found posted were inaccurate.

It will be a large determining factor in whether AM will stay competitive as new farms open up in places with very cheap electricity (~$0.01/kWh).

As for hardware, I believe I've seen $10k/TH, though that is yet again not an official figure. I doubt the expense for employees beyond manufacturing is significant compared to mining revenue.

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July 07, 2013, 06:48:22 PM
 #9514

I think the point about finance is well-made and of repeated concern. AM is clearly doing amazingly well on building chips, mining and selling, but it just feels like there's too much of this $200m company that is about the tech-stuff and too little about proper corporate governance and reporting.

The simple fact is that no proper reports have ever been produced as I can see it. Now maybe some things should remain 'inside the firm', for business reasons, but most public or private firms at least produce decent management information on a monthly basis and usually share it with shareholders on a quarterly basis.

I own a small piece in a global company that is still private and get a quarterly report of one page that covers updates and outline finances. My own private (multi-offshore structured) company reports proper management accounts (P&L, BS, Cashflow) monthly. It's easy.

Add-in the fact that transfers are still being emailed to the founder even for a few shares, shows that perhaps some areas could be improved by delegating to properly skilled workers and clearly the company can afford it. At some point it needs to report sales taxes and profits to the tax authorities as well as taxes due on employees wages etc?Huh?? Is it even doing so??

I'm sure there are plenty of people who could help who are shareholders (I offered but never received a reply).

Maybe they're already doing it, but they need to start acting like a proper business and solve the issues of reporting, taxation, corporate structure and governance, off-shore location. If they don't do this then they are risking the business needlessly.

Maybe I'm wrong and all this is happening, but with the greatest of respect to them right now it just doesn't feel like it, these are all problems that can be solved within days by people with experience.
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July 07, 2013, 06:49:04 PM
 #9515

I think the mining revenue is 100% transparent already...
Uh?
Of course it isn't.
A proper report would include how much he spends on hardware, on paying employees, on electricity...

I am pretty sure this Friedcat has numerous profit margin ,he can cover all his expenses by his on shares income from other 24K of shares.
He intended to be over satisfy those other shareholders, and One more thing ,if you full of doubt about his ability, then just go and dump your shares.
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July 07, 2013, 06:59:12 PM
 #9516

I think the point about finance is well-made and of repeated concern. AM is clearly doing amazingly well on building chips, mining and selling, but it just feels like there's too much of this $200m company that is about the tech-stuff and too little about proper corporate governance and reporting.

The simple fact is that no proper reports have ever been produced as I can see it. Now maybe some things should remain 'inside the firm', for business reasons, but most public or private firms at least produce decent management information on a monthly basis and usually share it with shareholders on a quarterly basis.

I own a small piece in a global company that is still private and get a quarterly report of one page that covers updates and outline finances. My own private (multi-offshore structured) company reports proper management accounts (P&L, BS, Cashflow) monthly. It's easy.

Add-in the fact that transfers are still being emailed to the founder even for a few shares, shows that perhaps some areas could be improved by delegating to properly skilled workers and clearly the company can afford it. At some point it needs to report sales taxes and profits to the tax authorities as well as taxes due on employees wages etc?Huh?? Is it even doing so??

I'm sure there are plenty of people who could help who are shareholders (I offered but never received a reply).

Maybe they're already doing it, but they need to start acting like a proper business and solve the issues of reporting, taxation, corporate structure and governance, off-shore location. If they don't do this then they are risking the business needlessly.

Maybe I'm wrong and all this is happening, but with the greatest of respect to them right now it just doesn't feel like it, these are all problems that can be solved within days by people with experience.
There are no tax requirement for income from virtual currency in China....Your opinion is a step forward.
And AM has a market cap of 200 millions, so what ? they may not a real business that registered with Chinese government , because no regulation indicate they need to do so~~This game is very simple , if you request everything become officially and everything is endorsement by government authority.It looks something will only happening when BTC really hit mainstream...I highly doubt all those rules which comply by normal businesses in real world, can be complied as same as a virtual business in BTC. If everything become officially and backed by government endorsement, then you will never see a return of 30% per year. it will becoming the same as most companies in stock market, may be 3% per year??
For the risk and reward, you should be aware before join this game...everything is virtual even the companies itself... if you worry too much , you can go back to NYE or where ever you like..

SilentSonicBoom
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July 07, 2013, 07:02:49 PM
 #9517

I think the mining revenue is 100% transparent already...
Uh?
Of course it isn't.
A proper report would include how much he spends on hardware, on paying employees, on electricity...

I am pretty sure this Friedcat has numerous profit margin ,he can cover all his expenses by his on shares income from other 24K of shares.
He intended to be over satisfy those other shareholders, and One more thing ,if you full of doubt about his ability, then just go and dump your shares.

Agreed. The main issue is trust and friedcat/AsicMiner has delivered above and beyond my expectations. Hardware is delivered in a timely fashion, hashrate is adjusted to match network increase, and dividends on shares are paid weekly like clockwork. Financials are nice, but results are even better Cheesy


JimiQ84
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July 07, 2013, 07:04:40 PM
 #9518

I think the point about finance is well-made and of repeated concern. AM is clearly doing amazingly well on building chips, mining and selling, but it just feels like there's too much of this $200m company that is about the tech-stuff and too little about proper corporate governance and reporting.

The simple fact is that no proper reports have ever been produced as I can see it. Now maybe some things should remain 'inside the firm', for business reasons, but most public or private firms at least produce decent management information on a monthly basis and usually share it with shareholders on a quarterly basis.

I own a small piece in a global company that is still private and get a quarterly report of one page that covers updates and outline finances. My own private (multi-offshore structured) company reports proper management accounts (P&L, BS, Cashflow) monthly. It's easy.

Add-in the fact that transfers are still being emailed to the founder even for a few shares, shows that perhaps some areas could be improved by delegating to properly skilled workers and clearly the company can afford it. At some point it needs to report sales taxes and profits to the tax authorities as well as taxes due on employees wages etc?Huh?? Is it even doing so??

I'm sure there are plenty of people who could help who are shareholders (I offered but never received a reply).

Maybe they're already doing it, but they need to start acting like a proper business and solve the issues of reporting, taxation, corporate structure and governance, off-shore location. If they don't do this then they are risking the business needlessly.

Maybe I'm wrong and all this is happening, but with the greatest of respect to them right now it just doesn't feel like it, these are all problems that can be solved within days by people with experience.
There are no tax requirement for income from virtual currency in China....Your opinion is a step forward.
And AM has a market cap of 200 millions, so what ? they may not a real business that registered with Chinese government , because no regulation indicate they need to do so~~This game is very simple , if you request everything become officially and everything is endorsement by government authority.It looks something will only happening when BTC really hit mainstream...I highly doubt all those rules which comply by normal businesses in real world, can be complied as same as a virtual business in BTC. If everything become officially and backed by government endorsement, then you will never see a return of 30% per year. it will becoming the same as most companies in stock market, may be 3% per year??
For the risk and reward, you should be aware before join this game...everything is virtual even the companies itself... if you worry too much , you can go back to NYE or where ever you like..



Exactly. I want juicy dividends, not some useless "reports". Dividends are my reports and they are pretty good. As long as dividends pay, friedcat can sit with his thumb up his nose for all I care.
SOSLOVE868
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July 07, 2013, 07:07:07 PM
 #9519

I think the point about finance is well-made and of repeated concern. AM is clearly doing amazingly well on building chips, mining and selling, but it just feels like there's too much of this $200m company that is about the tech-stuff and too little about proper corporate governance and reporting.

The simple fact is that no proper reports have ever been produced as I can see it. Now maybe some things should remain 'inside the firm', for business reasons, but most public or private firms at least produce decent management information on a monthly basis and usually share it with shareholders on a quarterly basis.

I own a small piece in a global company that is still private and get a quarterly report of one page that covers updates and outline finances. My own private (multi-offshore structured) company reports proper management accounts (P&L, BS, Cashflow) monthly. It's easy.

Add-in the fact that transfers are still being emailed to the founder even for a few shares, shows that perhaps some areas could be improved by delegating to properly skilled workers and clearly the company can afford it. At some point it needs to report sales taxes and profits to the tax authorities as well as taxes due on employees wages etc?Huh?? Is it even doing so??

I'm sure there are plenty of people who could help who are shareholders (I offered but never received a reply).

Maybe they're already doing it, but they need to start acting like a proper business and solve the issues of reporting, taxation, corporate structure and governance, off-shore location. If they don't do this then they are risking the business needlessly.

Maybe I'm wrong and all this is happening, but with the greatest of respect to them right now it just doesn't feel like it, these are all problems that can be solved within days by people with experience.

As no matter how high is the share price ,that isn't concerning by FriedCat ,because his companies only received the fund from IPO which is around 16400BTC.
(I do not believe he can manage a debt loan with his shares)
The rest of things ,is he trying to keeps his promises to the community by over delivery our expectations by make things as simple as possible.
Other aspect is: share price could be dump as long as 1 BTC in one day or vice versa. Market cap means less important in this game ,only thing is as long as it maintaining its 30% annual return. (and this 30% could be contribute by less money pay for accountant service.)

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July 07, 2013, 07:24:37 PM
 #9520

So everyones thoughts are simply, lets just assume that no-one finds out that AM is a real company and taxes them. Good luck to the Chinese employees when the authorities do find out! (Afterall China is such an easy place on people who break laws?)

The simple fact is that AM is a business (which by law must be registered) and it is making and selling stuff (millions of USD equivalent per month). It happens to sell this stuff denominated in something other than Renminbi, but which has a clearly calculable value in Renminbi. This is no different to mining gold or oil which is denominated in USD.

The ignorance on here is staggering. I agree it's not a problem for investors, who just care about dividends, but it will matter if the staff get jailed or the company closed because it chose to ignore local laws.

You cannot simply make something, sell it and ignore the law without consequences at some point. This same point applies to almost all Bitcoin securities. Most of these securities pass-through entire income per share, without deducting income tax on the profits (if it is a share income can only be paid from post-tax) or by withholding tax (if it is debt payments made outside the country of domicile). Of course all this may be occuring in zero-tax environments, but I highly doubt it.

They've only been around a few months, so will probably be able to get this sorted if they do it NOW, but if they don't if I was them I'd be very very scared right now about a knock on the door from the authorities.

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