ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[jimmothy]

jimmothy will never admit he was wrong about HashFast being a scam and also wrong about AM not being a scam.  His ego and pride won't allow it.  The shame would destroy his fragile self-image.

He's rather keep moving the goalposts, second-guessing the 12+ bankruptcy lawyers and Court involved with HF's 'not-a-scam' judgment while demanding metaphysical certainty that AM is-a-scam.

Even if FC signed a confession and held it up with the requisite banana and shoe, jimmothy would claim it was shopped, or not the real FC, or that FC was being blackmailed by Mongolian pirates.

And if you pointed out Mongolia is landlocked and thus pirate-free, he'd sputter something about how HF was still a scam even though they were granted Chapter 11 (a status that is denied to scams and even mismanaged companies) *TWICE*.

Because failing due to unfavorable business conditions makes you a scam if you are HF, but taking the BTC and running doesn't make you a scam if you are AM.   

This is the last time I'm wasting my time replying to you before putting you back on ignore because you've made it clear your not here for a discussion, but rather to spew the verbal diarrhea you are known for.

One last time, I AM NOT DENYING THE POSSIBILITY THAT FC TURNED INTO A SCAMMER.

I just find it unlikely given AM's solid track record/reputation of fighting to make things right. And I refuse to conclude it a scam based on the single fact that the CEO is missing (who conveniently is the only one with the private keys).

Here's my guesses as to what happen in order of plausibility:

1. Their story is legit and the hardware was stolen by some shady datacenter operator and FC was kidnapped or something.

2. FC was stealing electricity and he along with the hardware was taken by the police.

3. FC decided to pull an exit scam after Prisma 2.0's and BE300 turned out to be failures.

In no case do I think the scam was premeditated or that anyone other than FC was involved.

[keystroke]

jimmothy will never admit he was wrong about HashFast being a scam and also wrong about AM not being a scam.  His ego and pride won't allow it.  The shame would destroy his fragile self-image.

He's rather keep moving the goalposts, second-guessing the 12+ bankruptcy lawyers and Court involved with HF's 'not-a-scam' judgment while demanding metaphysical certainty that AM is-a-scam.

Even if FC signed a confession and held it up with the requisite banana and shoe, jimmothy would claim it was shopped, or not the real FC, or that FC was being blackmailed by Mongolian pirates.

And if you pointed out Mongolia is landlocked and thus pirate-free, he'd sputter something about how HF was still a scam even though they were granted Chapter 11 (a status that is denied to scams and even mismanaged companies) *TWICE*.

Because failing due to unfavorable business conditions makes you a scam if you are HF, but taking the BTC and running doesn't make you a scam if you are AM.   

This is the last time I'm wasting my time replying to you before putting you back on ignore because you've made it clear your not here for a discussion, but rather to spew the verbal diarrhea you are known for.

One last time, I AM NOT DENYING THE POSSIBILITY THAT FC TURNED INTO A SCAMMER.

I just find it unlikely given AM's solid track record/reputation of fighting to make things right. And I refuse to conclude it a scam based on the single fact that the CEO is missing (who conveniently is the only one with the private keys).

Here's my guesses as to what happen in order of plausibility:

1. Their story is legit and the hardware was stolen by some shady datacenter operator and FC was kidnapped or something.

2. FC was stealing electricity and he along with the hardware was taken by the police.

3. FC decided to pull an exit scam after Prisma 2.0's and BE300 turned out to be failures.

In no case do I think the scam was premeditated or that anyone other than FC was involved.

I agree with this. It is absurd to say AM was a scam to start with. It could be a scam now but there are other explanations which make sense. Everyone in bitcoin land wants to call everything a scam but unless we have proof one way or another then making an assumption could lead down the wrong path.

[primeminer]

In no case do I think the scam was premeditated or that anyone other than FC was involved.

I know there can not be any proof for this claim, but would you disclose any logic behind this? What makes you  so confident to state above?
 

[iCEBREAKER]

In no case do I think the scam was premeditated or that anyone other than FC was involved.

I know there can not be any proof for this claim, but would you disclose any logic behind this? What makes you  so confident to state above?
 

See what I mean?  Even if FC admitted the scam was premeditated, jimmothy wouldn't believe him.

There is no logic behind jimmothy's assertion.  Only confirmation bias amplified by pride and the fear of having to admit being in the denial stage far longer than was reasonable.

[Blazed]

In no case do I think the scam was premeditated or that anyone other than FC was involved.

I know there can not be any proof for this claim, but would you disclose any logic behind this? What makes you  so confident to state above?
 

See what I mean?  Even if FC admitted the scam was premeditated, jimmothy wouldn't believe him.

There is no logic behind jimmothy's assertion.  Only confirmation bias amplified by pride and the fear of having to admit being in the denial stage far longer than was reasonable.

FailFast tried and was not a scam just incompetent. AM was an exit scam in my opinion..BE300 were junk so he bailed.

[flyingplows]

Guys - back to reality. Anyone who really believes it is possible to steal electricity for a mining farm please seek medical help immediately. Ok, someone might say that he is so lucky that he steals electricity for his antminer at work and gets away with it for a few months, that's believable. If he tells he steals for 10 - he is probably lying or lives in some third world country at war where nobody cares about anything or he is just brave to think he will not go to jail and exploits his control of a building/situation etc. If he claims to steal for 50 - he is probably insane as this cannot happen in general. But to steal for a mining farm   - i mean, come on, there are no words for this mental condition - the only explanation is that this story is ment for noobs who have no idea about mining hardware and even what is electricity at all and its cost and all the stuff involved   You please think of an analogy - somebody tries to sell you a story that.. lets say.. a car factory steals electricity to produce cars would you believe this also... god.. how they came to even consider to spread such absurd nonsense.. unbelievable...

[jimmothy]

In no case do I think the scam was premeditated or that anyone other than FC was involved.

I know there can not be any proof for this claim, but would you disclose any logic behind this? What makes you  so confident to state above?

It just doesn't add up. Why do you think they stopped new amhash sales around the time the hardware was supposedly stolen? Why did AM offer full refunds/replacements to those with defective prismas? Why did they even bother to set up a datacenter and back all shares with real hashrate?

You could argue that this was all done to paint the illusion that it wasn't a scam, but I just don't see why the guy who earned 10's of thousands of btc legitimately would scam the community for another ~1.5k btc. (though I admit it is definitely possible)

As for FC being solely responsible, is there any evidence to suggest otherwise? So far we've seen several insiders share their point of view about this debacle and they all point to FC (and his disappearance) being responsible.

[iCEBREAKER]

AM was an exit scam in my opinion..BE300 were junk so he bailed.

The junk BE300 and previous junk BE200 would indicate AM/FC were tremendously incompetent as well as a scam.

Funny how you paint HF as incompetent (even though the bankruptcy court found zero evidence for that assertion), while you accidentally forgot to note 2 ASICs worth of demonstrated AM/FC incompetence.  Oops, I guess fairness just slipped your mind because you were so busy applying a biased double standard.   

[Blazed]

AM was an exit scam in my opinion..BE300 were junk so he bailed.

The junk BE300 and previous junk BE200 would indicate AM/FC were tremendously incompetent as well as a scam.

Funny how you paint HF as incompetent (even though the bankruptcy court found zero evidence for that assertion), while you accidentally forgot to note 2 ASICs worth of demonstrated AM/FC incompetence.  Oops, I guess fairness just slipped your mind because you were so busy applying a biased double standard.  

I think both companies sucked   AM at least did not fail on their gen 1 though...HF sucked worse.

[jimmothy]

FailFast tried and was not a scam just incompetent.

Is it really possible to be so incompetent/negligent that they went bankrupt before delivering a majority of their preorders which they charged $15/gh while production costs were ~$0.3/gh?

IMO they got fed up with the community backlash after Icebreaker managed to turn EVERYONE against HF so they orchestrated their exit scam. (funneling the money out of the company then declaring bankruptcy)

But then again the all-knowing Icebreaker has informed us all several times that bankruptcy fraud never happens so this can't be the case.

[flyingplows]

How can a single individual be responsible if we gave our investments to AM, not to FC. I would not give a satoshi to any cat or dog. We gave our money to a company and the company has to be responsible, there i no other way. I understand that this company is done after this (well to be true it was done long ago, but...), but the management have to be responsible and have to go to jail and be confiscated the money they stole. Its their fault that their ''business'' was organized it such perverted way that one person was in control of everything and that it was possible to steal anything. Not that I would believe any word of that stupid fairy tale but what I mean to say is that EVEN is their story would be true - still not FC is responsible, I don't know and don't care about no baked cat or roasted cat or dog, AM owes me money, not some personal thief.

[iCEBREAKER]

I think both companies sucked 

But you only described HF as incompetent, which is odd given both made a single good chip but only AM made two miserable failures.

I guess you didn't listen to the court hearing where the judge specifically asked the US Atty for evidence of HF incompetence, and received no satisfactory response.

It's really not fair to expect superhuman competence, sufficient to overcome truly adverse business conditions, when HF had no way to predict nor control the price of BTC and difficulty.  Sometimes, and most often in risky high-tech start-ups, the execs best isn't good enough. 

That's just economics, not incompetence.  Confusing the two is a tautological amateur mistake, as the judge explained to the humiliated and flustered US Atty when she tried to say failure necessarily indicates incompetence.

Sorry to pick on you, but I'm tired of HF being expected to prove their innocence while AM is given far more than reasonable benefit of the doubt.

[iCEBREAKER]

FailFast tried and was not a scam just incompetent.

Is it really possible to be so incompetent/negligent that they went bankrupt before delivering a majority of their preorders which they charged $15/gh while production costs were ~$0.3/gh?

IMO they got fed up with the community backlash after Icebreaker managed to turn EVERYONE against HF so they orchestrated their exit scam. (funneling the money out of the company then declaring bankruptcy)

But then again the all-knowing Icebreaker has informed us all several times that bankruptcy fraud never happens so this can't be the case.

It's more than possible, it actually happened.  Over a dozen professional lawyers (of whom several from major firms charge $500/hr) found zero evidence of incompetence or negligence.

Nobody cares about your ignorant personal opinion, fact-free interpretation, or quest for revenge. 

There was no 'exit scam.'  You were warned getting lawyers involved would not benefit anyone but those lawyers.  You should have already known that bit of common sense from watching TV.

No money was "funneled out" of the company.  That would be illegal and have precluded Chapter 11 status with retained management.

I never said "bankruptcy fraud never happens."  It just so happens that in this case 12+ bankruptcy specialists failed to find so much as a hint of a whiff of fraud.

You are just making stuff up and putting words in my mouth because you are so upset about being wrong, while I was proven correct on every point in dispute.

I ripped your face off and shat on your bruised ego.  Sorry, but that's the way it goes when you engage me impolitely in debate on topics of which I am the master.

You were wrong about the facts in both the HF and AM fiascos.  The longer you wallow in denial, the worse you look and the less healthy it is for you psychologically.

[Window2Wall]

FC has been offline for almost two months now. When someone scams, they almost always will never allow you to hear from them again.

Instead of giving himself a raise prior to the company failing, he simply stole the mining equipment and mining revenue of AMHASH. It is as simple as that

Do you have any proof he stole the hardware and mining revenue?

You are kidding right? Investors have not been paid in close to two months, and the people behind AMHASH have not received any mining revenue for close to another month before that. This is despite the fact that investors should have been receiving mining revenue for that entire time.

I am really not sure how else you could see that FC is a thief and a scammer

[iCEBREAKER]

FC has been offline for almost two months now. When someone scams, they almost always will never allow you to hear from them again.

Instead of giving himself a raise prior to the company failing, he simply stole the mining equipment and mining revenue of AMHASH. It is as simple as that

Do you have any proof he stole the hardware and mining revenue?

You are kidding right? Investors have not been paid in close to two months, and the people behind AMHASH have not received any mining revenue for close to another month before that. This is despite the fact that investors should have been receiving mining revenue for that entire time.

I am really not sure how else you could see that FC is a thief and a scammer

There is no logic behind jimmothy's skepticism and refusal to see the obvious.  Only confirmation bias amplified by pride and the fear of having to admit being in the denial stage far longer than was reasonable.

[Puppet]

In no case do I think the scam was premeditated or that anyone other than FC was involved.

I know there can not be any proof for this claim, but would you disclose any logic behind this? What makes you  so confident to state above?
 

I dont often agree with jimmothy, but I do here. Its a weird kind of scammer that first returns 6x more to its investors than it ever collected in its IPO. if it was premeditated, it certainly wasnt a few years ago. And its an unbelievably incompetent scam when you pull the plug right at the moment where everyone is holding their wallets expecting the launch of a new product,  that could greatly increase his loot, just by selling (fake) BE300 bulk preorders or hashrate based on it.

Everything points to there being more to this story than FC pulling off a very weird and/or very incompetent scam. I still think its far more likely the discovery by authorities  of 'theft' / misappropriated electricity of their mine is what triggered this collapse. Conjuncture, for sure,  but more plausible than the incompetent scam theory.

[iCEBREAKER]

weird kind of scammer that first returns 6x more to its investors than it ever collected in its IPO. if it was premeditated, it certainly wasnt a few years ago.

Ponzi schemes work precisely because of the high returns provided to early investors:



Madoff made his early investors feel like they were getting rich, in order to attrach 2rd and 3rd waves of investors.

Madoff's scam was premeditated years in advance.  It's called a long con, and they are more profitable than quick ones.

Too bad old Bernie isn't around to get involved with cloud mining and DashCoinDark.   

[Puppet]

Ponzi schemes work precisely because of the high returns provided to early investors:

Ponzi's can not, by definition, return more to  investors collectively than what the ponzi got from them in the first place. Madoff didnt, no ponzi ever did. Oh, and I assume HF didnt either, sucks to be you. AM did, many times over.  You would call Dell a ponzi just because you bought them too high.

[Puppet]

BTW, afaik, all AM hardware customers (so excluding AMhash) also got what they paid for. Which again is more than one can say of HF or any other scam I can think off.

[RoadStress]

Good question.  Here are some differences between the HashFast the unsuccessful business, and AM the scam:

1) HF operated in a transparent manner.  We knew the investors' and executives' identities and backgrounds since the beginning.  AM guys hid behind silly fake names like 'FriedCat' and 'BitFountain.'

Hello scammer! This is my reply to another post where you post tons of LIES.

Transparent manner? According to http://hashfast.org/Main_Page#Batch_1_Preorders there was nothing transparent from HashFail. According to this well documented website " Amy Woodward announced a delay of a critical component 3 days before the promised shipping date".

This is what "transparent" means for retard Icebreaker! You can't find out only with 3 days before the shipping date that you are not able to deliver anything. This is an outrageous LIE!

2) HF operated in the heavily (over)regulated California business climate, and never had any criminal charges brought against it.  OTOH, AM existed in the shadowy world of unregulated BTC securities, in the wild-west environment of China's 'mixed capitalism.'

Did anyone force HF to be incorporated in California? I don't think so.

3) HF's chip did exactly what it it was supposed to.  AM's chips kept failing to meet spec.

The difference is that AM never took any pre-order money on some advertised specs which never turn out to be true like HF did.

4) HF told us when and why they suffered delays.  AM was/is nearly completely opaque.

HF announced only 3 days before the shipping date that they can't make it This is useless!

5) HF went to bankruptcy court, in the normal manner for unsuccessful businesses.  AM is on the run from the law and its customers/investors/wives.

After delivering only ONE batch of miners while they took money for 4 batches! It's a new record in the Bitcoin world and nobody will be able to replicate it.

6) HF Batch One customers eventually got their ASICs, or refunds.  AMHASH customers are holding empty bags, with no recourse via normal legal means.

This is AM thread, not AMHASH.

7) When everything went wrong, HF execs stayed around and went to court while the process ran its course.  AM's CEO is hiding on a beach in Thailand or something.

That's because they were smart enough to leak 40-50 millions of $ out of the company while being untouchable.

Funny how you insisted HF was a scam despite having no proof, but make excuses for AM despite overwhelming evidence.

You are a retard! HF WAS A SCAM from day 1 while AM made over 6 time profit for IPO. HF was only able to deliver ONE batch of miners, while AM successfully operated for a couple of years and many investors saw a nice profit from AM shares.