ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[Blazed]

BTW, afaik, all AM hardware customers (so excluding AMhash) also got what they paid for. Which again is more than one can say of HF or any other scam I can think off.

True they even refunded those garbage Prisma miners. The only Ponzi was AMHash after the gear went MIA. It is funny comparing FailFast to them...FailFast couldn't even ship gen 1 after massive pre orders.

[RoadStress]

Ponzi schemes work precisely because of the high returns provided to early investors:

You must be an ultra retard to think that AM was a ponzi scheme. AM only took money from shareholders on IPO while maintaining a higher percentage of shares for themselves. Afterwards AM didn't need any outside money and they were able to operate independently of the share price. How can it be a ponzi if it's not needing new people to pour money into the company?

Can you be more retard than this?

[Tigggger]

Speaking of shares, has anyone looked into the trading history.

Announcing a succesfull chip (BE300) and making everyone think that everything was proceeding to production, on top of the failure to mention anything about the mining farm going *cough* missing are both things that would keep the share price higher than it should have been.

[Window2Wall]

In no case do I think the scam was premeditated or that anyone other than FC was involved.

I know there can not be any proof for this claim, but would you disclose any logic behind this? What makes you  so confident to state above?
 

I dont often agree with jimmothy, but I do here. Its a weird kind of scammer that first returns 6x more to its investors than it ever collected in its IPO. if it was premeditated, it certainly wasnt a few years ago. And its an unbelievably incompetent scam when you pull the plug right at the moment where everyone is holding their wallets expecting the launch of a new product,  that could greatly increase his loot, just by selling (fake) BE300 bulk preorders or hashrate based on it.

Everything points to there being more to this story than FC pulling off a very weird and/or very incompetent scam. I still think its far more likely the discovery by authorities  of 'theft' / misappropriated electricity of their mine is what triggered this collapse. Conjuncture, for sure,  but more plausible than the incompetent scam theory.

They were able to return additional funds to investors because they were not a ponzi in a sense that there was no real hardware actually mining. The fact that they actually had hardware mining meant that they were able to payout whatever it earned (minus their fees) to shareholders/investors).

There were posts that had mentioned that either ASICMINER or AMHASH was having difficulty selling all of their mining power that AMHASH1 was supposed to be backed by. So it is possible that he decided that it would not be financially viable to continue running his company so he just stole everything that he could from his customers.

This goes to show why it is not good to ever own miners that you do not physically control as it will always be trivial for whoever physically controls your miners to steal them and to steal whatever mining revenue that your miners should generate

[Fordee]

 
  REALITY CHECK - Food for thought.

 Easy quick question that perhaps the Board, or AMHash could answer:

  My understanding is that there were initially 5PH of Miners,  selling 1 PH at a time..   (the actual selling varies a bit in the amounts/timing) ..
  This was done for two reasons.. 1) To prove a stable board/component design with the BE300 in mind..    2) To help fund BE300 rollout costs.

  Where were the miners pointing?   My guess is initially (5PH) to an AM wallet, with other parties hired to manage/run the physical farm... At the end of each difficulty period, regardless of the amount of block found, a amount of 'dividends' plus fee for managing it where transferred to the 'managing entity'... who then dispersed the funds to the 'investors' of AMHASH... either via havelock, or other parties.

   My Belief:   Friedcat was using this as an opportunity to fund the BE300 chip costs, and eventually saving running expenses by redeploying BE300 Miners into the same environment.

   My Question:  With the millions gained from the AMHASH farm, (with or without electrical costs), Why hasn't anyone traced it?  either To/From Havelock, or To/From AM & Mining managers?  IS IT MULTISIG?
  
   2nd Question: If Friedcat is as intelligent and honourable as he has shown in the past 3 Years by his actions and posts,  what if he was travelling and is in a hospital somewhere as a John Doe?

   What would happen to the share prices if he resurfaced, with a legitimate story, funded the chip and continued onward?

  Hell of a gamble, but really ...  after you all lost so much, might as well scoop up whats left for pennies on the 'what if'..

  After all..   With no funds and no future... WHY IS DAVID CONTINUING TO KEEP AN OFFICE AND EMPLOYEES AROUND?

  Yeah.. scam of course...  only 1/10 of the shares are on Havelock..  David has a bigger interest as a partial Bitfountain partner..   So WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON?

  


  

[muyuu]

Here's my guesses as to what happen in order of plausibility:

1. Their story is legit and the hardware was stolen by some shady datacenter operator and FC was kidnapped or something.

2. FC was stealing electricity and he along with the hardware was taken by the police.

3. FC decided to pull an exit scam after Prisma 2.0's and BE300 turned out to be failures.

In no case do I think the scam was premeditated or that anyone other than FC was involved.

Do you honestly put 1. "James Bond-esque kidnapping operation" above 2 and 3 "trivial scams that have happened time and again in the Bitcoin ecosystem"?

What is the logic that leads you to think that 1 is more likely than 3 or 2?? Other than blind faith, I mean.

[iCEBREAKER]

BTW, afaik, all AM hardware customers (so excluding AMhash) also got what they paid for.

It it true?

We've heard all kinds of horror stories about DOA Tubes/Prizmas with no recourse to tech support or customer service.

If even one customer didn't get "what they paid for" your claim would be disproven.

Which is why most people tend to avoid making 'always and never' type claims, unless they are exaggerating for hyperbolic emphasis:

“Always” and “Never” statements are also very frequently used by individuals who suffer from personality disorders, because they fit neatly into the split, black and white world of their thinking. They are most often used in an accusatory, argumentative or self-pitying way.

I know of at least two AM shareholders whose requests for share transfers have been blown off for months, since before FC took the money and ran: my own and the MiningCo ETF's.

[RoadStress]

I know of at least two AM shareholders whose requests for share transfers have been blown off for months, since before FC took the money and ran: my own and the MiningCo ETF's.

Unless they were IPO shareholders then they brought the shares from someone else, not from FC. Are you really that dumb?

[Chris_Sabian]

BTW, afaik, all AM hardware customers (so excluding AMhash) also got what they paid for. Which again is more than one can say of HF or any other scam I can think off.

True they even refunded those garbage Prisma miners. The only Ponzi was AMHash after the gear went MIA. It is funny comparing FailFast to them...FailFast couldn't even ship gen 1 after massive pre orders.

No they didn't.  I'm still waiting for my refund.  The arrangement was to ship defective / unwanted miners to CrazyGuy (per AM) and refund of bitcoins would come from AM.  Still waiting on those bitcoins...

[gogxmagog]

he hasnt resurfaced in too long for there to be any sound minded business reason with regards to the value of AM as a going concern. Either he is missing because he has cut and run, which doesn't make a lot of sense unless there was some sort of failure he is personally responsible and wont own up to, or he cant return because of disaster from outside forces such as illness, death, criminal intervention.

I keep looking at this and freaking out, thinking the worst like many of you, but I do honestly believe, deep down, that if FC could have avoided disappearing, he would be available and working the master plan, running the company at any cost. It is simply of more value as a legit entity, operating as it has in the last 2 years, than it is as a shady exit run. Why raid the cookie jar when you can own the bakery?

too many things don't add up for this to be a cut n run scheme. Not that I don't have moments of paranoia (fed by iCEbreaker, NLC, Tiggger et al, fuck you very much) This company has struggled, but managed to maintain anyway, up till now.

Besides, a true rip-off artist in FC's position would let some divs dibble out for a few weeks, causing the share price to skyrocket, then sell off his shares discretely amidst the panic selling, profit HUGE, then disappear.

That it is most likely that FC has met with some sort of illness/disaster/foul play/death, is absolutely just as bad news as scam anyways...

[iCEBREAKER]

Here's my guesses as to what happen in order of plausibility:

1. Their story is legit and the hardware was stolen by some shady datacenter operator and FC was kidnapped or something.

2. FC was stealing electricity and he along with the hardware was taken by the police.

3. FC decided to pull an exit scam after Prisma 2.0's and BE300 turned out to be failures.

In no case do I think the scam was premeditated or that anyone other than FC was involved.

Do you honestly put 1. "James Bond-esque kidnapping operation" above 2 and 3 "trivial scams that have happened time and again in the Bitcoin ecosystem"?

What is the logic that leads you to think that 1 is more likely than 3 or 2?? Other than blind faith, I mean.

Tigggger's point about pumping the market with decent BE300 specs even though insiders knew it was all over is especially incriminating:

Speaking of shares, has anyone looked into the trading history.

Announcing a succesfull chip (BE300) and making everyone think that everything was proceeding to production, on top of the failure to mention anything about the mining farm going *cough* missing are both things that would keep the share price higher than it should have been.

But it doesn't matter, because jimmothy and roadstress would sooner eat broken glass than admit AM is now more of a scam than HF ever was.

They are committed to an eternal denial period, and will make up stupid excuses like 'well you didn't buy those shares/Tubes/Prizmas *DIRECTLY* from AM so that doesn't count' to rationalize their blind faith.

[iCEBREAKER]

BTW, afaik, all AM hardware customers (so excluding AMhash) also got what they paid for. Which again is more than one can say of HF or any other scam I can think off.

True they even refunded those garbage Prisma miners. The only Ponzi was AMHash after the gear went MIA. It is funny comparing FailFast to them...FailFast couldn't even ship gen 1 after massive pre orders.

No they didn't.  I'm still waiting for my refund.  The arrangement was to ship defective / unwanted miners to CrazyGuy (per AM) and refund of bitcoins would come from AM.  Still waiting on those bitcoins...

I'm sorry to hear that.  It must add insult to injury for Blazedout and Puppet to be claiming all is well with AM hardware, when you are so acutely aware that is not the case.

BTW HF did ship their gen one.  Icedrill, Liquidbits, and Batch One eventually got hardware or refunds.  Some upgrades and Batch 2 were shipped as well.  Plus they sold chips to PepperMining and a couple of others.

Puppet and Blazedout should STFU because they clearly have no clue WTF they're talking about, and are just making up facts to suit their unshakable HF=BAD AM=GOOD prejudices.

[RoadStress]

But it doesn't matter, because jimmothy and roadstress would sooner eat broken glass than admit AM is now more of a scam than HF ever was.

They are committed to an eternal denial period, and will make up stupid excuses like 'well you didn't buy those shares/Tubes/Prizmas *DIRECTLY* from AM so that doesn't count' to rationalize their blind faith.

I never stated this so again you are lying!

Calling AM a scam is simply retarded. When IPO shareholders got their 100% ROI then the scam is out of the question. AM never offered pre-orders for false promises like HashFail did!

What about HF customers from batch 2, 3 and 4? They got nothing at all from your shit company.

BTW HF did ship their gen one.  Icedrill, Liquidbits, and Batch One eventually got hardware or refunds.  Some upgrades and Batch 2 were shipped as well.  Plus they sold chips to PepperMining and a couple of others.

AM was in business for more than 2 years while HF was in business for what? 6 months? 10 months?

What about we compare the number of total customers from the 2 companies? What about the number of satisfied/unsatisfied customers? AM wins by far in front of HF.

go eat shit scammer!

[iCEBREAKER]

Calling AM a scam is simply retarded.

Your problem here is that lots of non-retarded people are for many good reasons calling AM a scam

You look like a fool by denying the obvious, exactly like when you despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary called HF a scam.

When IPO shareholders got their 100% ROI then the scam is out of the question.

Early Ponzi scheme investors always get high returns to sucker them and new victims into putting more money into now-trusted pyramid.

Early Pirate@40 customers make with over 100% ROI.  That proves nothing.

We've already gone over this.  Please try to keep up with the class.  Spend some time with the special ed tutor if your learning disability needs to be accommodated.

AM never offered pre-orders

And how is that working out for them?   

AM found themselves undercapitalized at a crucial moment, just like HF and Cointerra.  Except that Eddie and Ravi stuck around to face the music and deal with the fallout, while FC took the money and ran for the hills of Chiang Rai.

Maybe AM should have offered pre-orders, so it would have had enough BTC to put in an order for wafers (and hire an intern to do share transfers, tech support, and customer service).

Besides, shipping broken hardware and then making customers wait weeks for replacements is functionally the same as a preorder:

I've sent emails and PMs to Friedcat and Phasebird, no luck.

You know, the expectation was kinda sorta that these would work...in October. But, AM became a preorder scam company apparently, and my main priority is salvaging some of my investment in their hardware, and being glad I don't own shares.

[RoadStress]

Early Ponzi scheme investors always get high returns to sucker them and new victims into putting more money into now-trusted pyramid.

Early Pirate@40 customers make with over 100% ROI.  That proves nothing.

We've already gone over this.  Please try to keep up with the class.  Spend some time with the special ed tutor if your learning disability needs to be accommodated.

Ponzi schemes require new funds to go to the ponzi company. In AM case once the IPO share were sold then the following ones that brought shares brought them from IPO shareholders, not from AM.

AM made 0 money from the subsequent share sales. Is that so hard to understand? Where is the ponzi scheme since AM could operate independently of what happened with the shares?

And how is that working out for them?   

AM found themselves undercapitalized at a crucial moment, just like HF and Cointerra.  Except that Eddie and Ravi stuck around to face the music and deal with the fallout, while FC took the money and ran for the hills of Chiang Rai.

Maybe AM should have offered pre-orders, so it would have had enough BTC to put in an order for wafers (and hire an intern to do share transfers, tech support, and customer service).

AM got 6xROI to IPO shareholders, managed to get 30% of solo mining at one point, had 2 successful generation of miners + 1 additional generation that failed and delivered tens of thousands of miners.

What did HF managed to do with 50M$? Deliver one batch of miners and leave 3 batches of customers empty handed!

Go join scammer Inaba and eat a bowl of dicks please.

[iCEBREAKER]

AM got 6xROI to IPO shareholders

IPO shareholders deserved that 6x ROI because they risked their BTC going to zero.

You make it sound like AM was doing them a great favor, out of the goodness of their hearts.

Besides, that was years ago.

Have you been frozen in ice since 2012?

Did you miss the part where AM bungled two generations of chips and the Prizma launch, then misled investors about the BE300, their finances, and the general situation?

Many shares traded hands during the last 3 years.

Why are you pretending those who bought in post-IPO deserve to be scammed?

I know this must very hard for you.  It must not easy dealing with the cognitive dissonance of finding out you've been in the denial stage, when you've spent so much time manufacturing a caricature of others by falsely accusing them of the same.

[RoadStress]

IPO shareholders deserved that 6x ROI because they risked their BTC going to zero.

Please explain the ponzi scheme smart ass!

[iCEBREAKER]

IPO shareholders deserved that 6x ROI because they risked their BTC going to zero.

Please explain the ponzi scheme smart ass!

Gavin already did: https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/gavin-andresen-suspects-ponzi-schemes-bitcoin-cloud-mining/

Please explain why those who purchased shares after the IPO deserve to be scammed.

[RoadStress]

IPO shareholders deserved that 6x ROI because they risked their BTC going to zero.

Please explain the ponzi scheme smart ass!

Gavin already did: https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/gavin-andresen-suspects-ponzi-schemes-bitcoin-cloud-mining/

Please explain why those who purchased shares after the IPO deserve to be scammed.

I am sorry, but Gavin is talking about cloud mining. AM never did any cloud mining.

So I am still waiting for you to explain where is the AM ponzi...

As for those ones that purchased shares after IPO well they weren't scammed because nobody forced them to do it and AM never promised anything to them. Their only commitment was for the IPO shareholders and they have exceeded it by far.

For me AM was dead or bankrupt since ~August or when the dividends stopped. The TL;DR would be that they lost at the mining game. They continued to operate for a longer time than HF did when it started to bleed money and they did it with minimal costs trying to resurrect the company somehow, which I didn't see HF doing. AM managed to get a sample chip and they successfully tested it. In comparison HF did the exact opposite thing! If AM really wanted to pull a scam they could've somehow tried to raise some pre-order money for their next gen chip since they've already confirmed the design by testing the chip.

AM never took pre-order money for something that they could not deliver like HF did for 3 batches of customers!

PLEASE EXPLAIN AM PONZI! It is clearly that you are lying in everything that you say. This is just another proof of your constant lies. Thank you for making it so easy for people to see that you are so full of shit!

[iCEBREAKER]

AM never did any cloud mining.

Sure bro.  How's the weather in Egypt?

AMHash1 is the first of a series of mining contracts.

In this contract, the hashrate is provided by ASICMiner

Risk control
1. Before IPO closes, ASICMiner has the right to buy back at the price of IPO price * 100.5%.

2. During the first 45 days after IPO closes, ASICMiner has the right to buy back at the price of (IPO price - total payouts) * 120%. The notification period is 3 days.

As for those ones that purchased shares after IPO well they weren't scammed because nobody forced them to do it and AM never promised anything to them. Their only commitment was for the IPO shareholders and they have exceeded it by far.

That is so wrong and untrue it would take weeks to unpack all the densely packed falsities within.

Let's just briefly note that not how IPOs and stocks work.  EG, AM was obligated to pay dividends and transfer shares, because those share represent a claim on the firm's profits, and the OP confirms this.  The OP does not say 'any shares purchased after the IPO are worthless and we couldn't care less about them.'