ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[ianp]

Interesting regarding the franchising. I hope more information comes out as I have ~60 kW of electrical capacity sitting idle due to increasing difficulty making any ASIC purchases a risky gamble. Winter is coming and while $0.076/kWhr might not be the most competitive, I'm sure it'll be competitive for a few months.

Any idea what rates are around the world?

I pay about 0.045/kWhr.

[Vycid]

Interesting regarding the franchising. I hope more information comes out as I have ~60 kW of electrical capacity sitting idle due to increasing difficulty making any ASIC purchases a risky gamble. Winter is coming and while $0.076/kWhr might not be the most competitive, I'm sure it'll be competitive for a few months.

Any idea what rates are around the world?

I pay about 0.045/kWhr.

~ $0.07/kWh in Guangdong (Shenzen - AM is here).

~ $0.01/kWh in parts of Central Washington (state) and Siberia.

~ $0.15/kWh in California (for businesses).

The electricity cost is going to be much a factor in the long haul as the chips are. We will definitely see a migration of old hardware to super-cheap electricity regions. If I was starting a company, it'd be to do just that - buy obsoleted hardware and move it to super-cheap locations.

[SebastianJu]

I checked europe when i still thought i would get a reasonable amount of profitable avalon asic chips and found that in europe bulgaria has the best rates with 9Euro Cents.

[ianp]

Interesting regarding the franchising. I hope more information comes out as I have ~60 kW of electrical capacity sitting idle due to increasing difficulty making any ASIC purchases a risky gamble. Winter is coming and while $0.076/kWhr might not be the most competitive, I'm sure it'll be competitive for a few months.

Any idea what rates are around the world?

I pay about 0.045/kWhr.

~ $0.07/kWh in Guangdong (Shenzen - AM is here).

~ $0.01/kWh in parts of Central Washington (state) and Siberia.

~ $0.15/kWh in California (for businesses).

The electricity cost is going to be much a factor in the long haul as the chips are. We will definitely see a migration of old hardware to super-cheap electricity regions. If I was starting a company, it'd be to do just that - buy obsoleted hardware and move it to super-cheap locations.

Wow -- I thought we had it cheap in Oklahoma at $0.045/kWhr during non-summer months.

Thanks for the info.

[Gomeler]

Interesting regarding the franchising. I hope more information comes out as I have ~60 kW of electrical capacity sitting idle due to increasing difficulty making any ASIC purchases a risky gamble. Winter is coming and while $0.076/kWhr might not be the most competitive, I'm sure it'll be competitive for a few months.

Any idea what rates are around the world?

I pay about 0.045/kWhr.

Vycid has it correct. This is an interesting link for a rough comparison -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_pricing. In the US, I believe the average is around $0.09-0.11/kWhr with some exceptions(California, extremely high, Pacific Northwest, extremely low).

I'm on an industrial plan, if I can franchise I need to talk with Excel about the ability to drop my kWhr rate even further.

[romerun]

The future of asic mining is selling hardware, including cooling system, backplane, maybe a diesel generator, solar cell, phone miner, anything relating to mining. Ltc / xmp asic ,may come in a few years, we might even see a personal nuclear powerplant selling in btcguild. So the income is not limited to  btc left to be mined.

[Strange Vlad]

We pay here about $0.01/kWh, but that's for private homes.  Companies pay less, about $0.005/kWh, depending on their volume, voltage and location.  And the big loyal-to-government companies get it for $0.001/kWh in some cases, because government kinda "supports" them, LOL.  Stupid socialists.

It's not Siberia though, only 500 km to the east from Moscow.
But it also varies from region to region, I just happen to live 30 km from a hydroelectric plant.  I heard in other regions prices are significantly different.  For example, some southern regions (Dagestan, Chechnya) get some "special" government support, so people there get $0.003-0.005/kWh for private homes and even less for companies.

Hope it's useful.

[Vycid]

We pay here about $0.01/kWh, but that's for private homes.  Companies pay less, about $5/MWh, depending on their volume, voltage and location.  And the big loyal-to-government companies get it for $1/MWh in some cases, because government kinda "supports" them, LOL.  Stupid socialists.

It's not Siberia though, only 500 km to the east from Moscow.
But it also varies from region to region, I just happen to live 30 km from a hydroelectric plant.  I heard in other regions prices are significantly different.  For example, some southern regions (Dagestan, Chechnya) get some "special" government support, so people there get $0.003-0.005 for private homes and even less for companies.

Hope it's useful.

Interesting. Haven't had a chance to speak to a local. I assume cooling expenses are lower too in Russia  

How's rent on industrial space? What would it cost for, say, a 1MW hookup (and associated costs per watt at that consumption size)?

I think there is serious first-mover potential for low-margin mining in Russia.

[Strange Vlad]

How's rent on industrial space? What would it cost for, say, a 1MW hookup (and associated costs per watt at that consumption size)?

I'm sorry, but it's very difficult to answer that question.  The industrial prices are usually lower than home prices, but they depend on a lot of things.
1) There are many different companies in different areas, but all of these companies are de-facto national, not private.  These companies are very complicated, and may have very different prices.
2) The companies usually don't post the prices on the internet, suggesting you call them and ask.  I've just tried to find some region-by-region comparison rating or something like that, but there's no such info.
3) The prices are calculated from many parameters: maximum power, average power, consumed energy, power usage ratio (avg. power / by max. power), supplied voltage, location, etc.  The prices are calculated from company's transit price (set by local officials) and federal prices (set by laws), both of them change often, at least every year.
4) The prices depend on who you are: what kind of company (there are several categories), and it may become lower if you are "well connected" to some officials in the energy business.
It's all VERY complex.

As for hooking up, it may also be different: for example they can provide a cable, or you may have to lay the cable yourself.  The closest energy hub may be full so you may need to lay a cable to some more remote hub.  If you're in the city, it will become bureaucratic hell to lay the cable through the streets.  And of course it also depends on corruption, whether you are "well connected" or not.

I've managed to find some numbers at around $300/kW for hook-up, but it's for 2010 and for Moscow (the most expensive region).

[adamthefishman]

Great news

[wickedgoodtrader]

He says an order is two weeks late. Why? Do they know if it will show up? I don't see how you can say , oh the order is 2 weeks late, but in OCT it will add 500 ths. If it's already late how can you know when it will arrive?

[binaryFate]

He says an order is two weeks late. Why? Do they know if it will show up? I don't see how you can say , oh the order is 2 weeks late, but in OCT it will add 500 ths. If it's already late how can you know when it will arrive?

When you're on your way but 20mn late to a date, I guess you call and say "I'll be 20mn late, sorry". Isn't that slightly abusive? If you're already late how do you know when will you arrive?

[Vycid]

He says an order is two weeks late. Why? Do they know if it will show up? I don't see how you can say , oh the order is 2 weeks late, but in OCT it will add 500 ths. If it's already late how can you know when it will arrive?

When you're on your way but 20mn late to a date, I guess you call and say "I'll be 20mn late, sorry". Isn't that slightly abusive? If you're already late how do you know when will you arrive?

Did you just compare going to a date to operating a business? And 20 minutes to 2 weeks?

Typically, in a business situation, the delay is explained and the anticipated impact to ETA is provided.

AM is not, of course, legally considered a public company in the eyes of any major regulatory body so FC can do whatever he likes.

[binaryFate]

He says an order is two weeks late. Why? Do they know if it will show up? I don't see how you can say , oh the order is 2 weeks late, but in OCT it will add 500 ths. If it's already late how can you know when it will arrive?

When you're on your way but 20mn late to a date, I guess you call and say "I'll be 20mn late, sorry". Isn't that slightly abusive? If you're already late how do you know when will you arrive?

Did you just compare going to a date to operating a business? And 20 minutes to 2 weeks?

To demonstrate the fallacious logic of the post I was replying to, yes I did.
His logic was that once you're late, you cannot provide any ETA. That is fallacious, both for a date and a business, both for 20mn and 2 weeks. Because the logic is fallacious, you know, not the stuff around.

[binaryFate]

I totally share Strange Vlad's feeling:
Many of you seem to believe that thiner chips instantly make the previous ones obsolete. But from a miner point of view, the equation is simple: see what you can get for which price, see how much it will consume of electricity, and see how much it will earn you in bitcoins. Looking at products with this in mind, 130nm will remain a relevant choice for many more months. I am sure AM pricing policy will constantly remind that to everybody.
When FC says "gen2 will come in time", you are wrong to think it is a way to admit they are late. It simply means "at the most appropriate time". You should really wonder why AM does not agree with you as to what is the most appropriate time...

First - the process size (130nm, 55/45nm, 28nm, etc) has nothing to do with the chip thickness.  

My bad, I'm not a native speaker. I don't care at all about the thickness (that is, the height) of the chip, I was speaking about what you properly call "process size", but I'd thought it was pretty obvious even with the wrong term (who would care about the height of the chip?). Thanks for the explanations anyway.

[GodHatesFigs]

Too little. Too late.

[Jutarul]

Too little. Too late.

I love a good troll.

[bziytjctocintalk2013]

Finally update!  yeah~

[wickedgoodtrader]

He says an order is two weeks late. Why? Do they know if it will show up? I don't see how you can say , oh the order is 2 weeks late, but in OCT it will add 500 ths. If it's already late how can you know when it will arrive?

When you're on your way but 20mn late to a date, I guess you call and say "I'll be 20mn late, sorry". Isn't that slightly abusive? If you're already late how do you know when will you arrive?

20 min and 2 weeks are a bit different. Also.. they didn't call and say they will "be 2 weeks late sorry". They just didn't provide them on time and they haven't provided them with a date. And if they do provide them with a date how can we know it's any good if they already missed the first date they provided?

[physalis]

20 min and 2 weeks are a bit different. Also.. they didn't call and say they will "be 2 weeks late sorry". They just didn't provide them on time and they haven't provided them with a date. And if they do provide them with a date how can we know it's any good if they already missed the first date they provided?

Because that's something these people have probably done a thousand times.
If I make pencils and know I make 1000 pencils a day and then one day my giant dog eats a batch of 1000 pencils, then I'll still know I can make 1000 more in a day.

Are you really trying to say that no one can estimate how long a delay will be, ever? That's ridiculous. You don't know what causes the delay, what on earth makes you think they can't estimate the duration?