Bitcoin Forum
March 29, 2024, 06:16:37 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 26.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  

Warning: Moderators do not remove likely scams. You must use your own brain: caveat emptor. Watch out for Ponzi schemes. Do not invest more than you can afford to lose.

Warning: One or more bitcointalk.org users have reported that they strongly believe that the creator of this topic is a scammer. (Login to see the detailed trust ratings.) While the bitcointalk.org administration does not verify such claims, you should proceed with extreme caution.
Pages: « 1 ... 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 [666] 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 ... 1348 »
  Print  
Author Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It  (Read 3916266 times)
physalis
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 392
Merit: 250



View Profile
September 24, 2013, 01:11:49 PM
 #13301

500 TH = 50 k blades = 5 k blade kits

I am not sure that you are aware of logistic and scalability problems of deploying 500 TH of asic blades. Not to mention power consummation and cooling.   

They dont have gen2 chips, they are late, and are hoping to recoup that with old technology.

Nobody is takling about deploying 500TH.
Again: most of it will be sold, like it has always been the case with AM.
Even in the event that an attacker gains more than 50% of the network's computational power, only transactions sent by the attacker could be reversed or double-spent. The network would not be destroyed.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
1711692997
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1711692997

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1711692997
Reply with quote  #2

1711692997
Report to moderator
1711692997
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1711692997

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1711692997
Reply with quote  #2

1711692997
Report to moderator
1711692997
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1711692997

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1711692997
Reply with quote  #2

1711692997
Report to moderator
Strange Vlad
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 140
Merit: 100



View Profile
September 24, 2013, 01:19:22 PM
 #13302

500 TH = 50 k blades = 5 k blade kits

I am not sure that you are aware of logistic and scalability problems of deploying 500 TH of asic blades. Not to mention power consummation and cooling.   
First of all, not all 500TH are going to be deployed.  Actually, I believe it's not rational to increase AM's own farm with Gen1, so most if not all blades are going to be sold and franchised.
Second, of course I'm aware that huge volumes are not easy to handle.  However, ASICMiner has experience dealing with (slightly smaller) volumes, they have established relations with resellers worldwide, they already have franchising test-running, they have enough money.

Quote
They dont have gen2 chips, they are late, and are hoping to recoup that with old technology.
As if a new technology instantly kills old technology the moment it appears.  Again, think volumes and costs.

Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.
1CdVTkA288cd3m1jkdqPjUfhQ5ebei8gVT
velacreations
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476
Merit: 250


View Profile
September 24, 2013, 01:23:33 PM
 #13303

Quote
They dont have gen2 chips, they are late, and are hoping to recoup that with old technology.
As if a new technology instantly kills old technology the moment it appears.  Again, think volumes and costs.
+1
What matters is $/GH for 2013

JimiQ84
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 406
Merit: 250


View Profile
September 24, 2013, 01:24:08 PM
 #13304

I imagine 100TH/s could be deployed in franchises, let's say 1TH/s per one franchise. No scaling, cooling, powering problem
tarmi
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218
Merit: 1010


View Profile
September 24, 2013, 01:29:06 PM
 #13305

so most if not all blades are going to be sold and franchised.


We are in ASIC bubble (which isnt sustainable) and people today are much more aware of the risks and implications of buying ASIC miners.  

I think that time of hysterical buys of overpriced hardware is over. why would anyone spend and risk their bitcoins to buy asic miner?
data
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 84
Merit: 10


View Profile
September 24, 2013, 01:35:08 PM
 #13306

Friedcat: Could you please specify where in the production cycle you are with the Gen2 hardware and what your current time projections are?

Quote
• The size of the Gen2 order will be decided as appropriate, according to the
network difficulty when it is time to finalize the order size
Was this supposed to be the answer? I wanted to know how far the design is, possibly projected energy usage, hashing power per Watt and chip, if similar delays as with gen1 can be expected or if it will go smooth and so on, not something like: we haven't yet decided on the order size, that's it.
muyuu
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000



View Profile
September 24, 2013, 01:39:46 PM
 #13307

so most if not all blades are going to be sold and franchised.


We are in ASIC bubble (which isnt sustainable) and people today are much more aware of the risks and implications of buying ASIC miners.  

I think that time of hysterical buys of overpriced hardware is over. why would anyone spend and risk their bitcoins to buy asic miner?

That's a problem mostly for sellers/retailers and for particular miners.

Most of the new players have not amortised their original investment yet. Be it time or money. They will have to face higher pressure than those who already have their infrastructure in place and have been long running on profit.

AFAIC, ASICMiner remains the apex predator in this industry unless a big corporation decides to invest heavily and join the race.

GPG ID: 7294199D - OTC ID: muyuu (470F97EB7294199D)
forum tea fund BTC 1Epv7KHbNjYzqYVhTCgXWYhGSkv7BuKGEU DOGE DF1eTJ2vsxjHpmmbKu9jpqsrg5uyQLWksM CAP F1MzvmmHwP2UhFq82NQT7qDU9NQ8oQbtkQ
velacreations
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476
Merit: 250


View Profile
September 24, 2013, 01:41:11 PM
 #13308

so most if not all blades are going to be sold and franchised.
We are in ASIC bubble (which isnt sustainable) and people today are much more aware of the risks and implications of buying ASIC miners. 

I think that time of hysterical buys of overpriced hardware is over. why would anyone spend and risk their bitcoins to buy asic miner?
well, they are currently selling just fine, and if prices continue to decrease as time goes on, people will continue to buy.

People still need hardware, and right now, you can wait or buy from AM.  People are choosing to buy from AM.

velacreations
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476
Merit: 250


View Profile
September 24, 2013, 01:42:27 PM
 #13309

Was this supposed to be the answer? I wanted to know how far the design is, possibly projected energy usage, hashing power per Watt and chip, if similar delays as with gen1 can be expected or if it will go smooth and so on, not something like: we haven't yet decided on the order size, that's it.
he's not going to release specs of Gen2 hardware before they are ready to sell.

Franktank
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 560
Merit: 500



View Profile
September 24, 2013, 01:55:45 PM
 #13310

Custom Cooling Systems
We have been finalizing on our HK datacenter with our professional partner on immersion cooling. This product will be of interest both miners, and other industries that require cooling of similar hardware. Our cooling system partner built it as an exhibition house where everything is clean and shiny for investors/buyers to visit and for ASICMINER to make videos as a demonstration.

This is the most interesting part of the news. Their first datacenter is in Shenzen, curious about the capacity of this second data center. The immersion cooling news means they are expanding beyond just Bitcoin mining and hardware sales.
BitCsByBit
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 252
Merit: 250


View Profile
September 24, 2013, 01:56:42 PM
 #13311

Friedcat: Could you please specify where in the production cycle you are with the Gen2 hardware and what your current time projections are?

Quote
• The size of the Gen2 order will be decided as appropriate, according to the
network difficulty when it is time to finalize the order size
Was this supposed to be the answer? I wanted to know how far the design is, possibly projected energy usage, hashing power per Watt and chip, if similar delays as with gen1 can be expected or if it will go smooth and so on, not something like: we haven't yet decided on the order size, that's it.

Why didn't you ask that?

All I read was a question about the production cycle and time projections, and they are not being produced and the order size has not yet been finalised. Huh.

Tipsy jar: 1HgfLMXiJQj9KZ7abLRh9rWuR7dgeSyub4
wtfvanity
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 504
Merit: 500


WTF???


View Profile
September 24, 2013, 02:08:41 PM
 #13312

Friedcat: Could you please specify where in the production cycle you are with the Gen2 hardware and what your current time projections are?

Quote
• The size of the Gen2 order will be decided as appropriate, according to the
network difficulty when it is time to finalize the order size
Was this supposed to be the answer? I wanted to know how far the design is, possibly projected energy usage, hashing power per Watt and chip, if similar delays as with gen1 can be expected or if it will go smooth and so on, not something like: we haven't yet decided on the order size, that's it.

Why didn't you ask that?

All I read was a question about the production cycle and time projections, and they are not being produced and the order size has not yet been finalised. Huh.

It sounds to me, like they haven't even pushed the gen2 design to fab yet. Sounds like AM is being stomped by bitfury, knc, cointerra, who else? They probably were about to push out a new design around what, 45-65 dies and then realized their head is about to be crunched by 22 dies and had to make a change.

AM defined BTC ASIC's, however, unless their power is very cheap and they get to the market quickly, the are about to become meaningless.

At least IMO anyway Cheesy

          WTF!     Don't Click Here              
          .      .            .            .        .            .            .          .        .     .               .            .             .            .            .           .            .     .               .         .              .           .            .            .            .     .      .     .    .     .          .            .          .            .            .           .              .     .            .            .           .            .               .         .            .     .            .            .             .            .              .            .            .      .            .            .            .            .            .            .             .          .
binaryFate
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1484
Merit: 1003


Still wild and free


View Profile
September 24, 2013, 02:15:45 PM
 #13313

I totally share Strange Vlad's feeling:
Many of you seem to believe that thiner chips instantly make the previous ones obsolete. But from a miner point of view, the equation is simple: see what you can get for which price, see how much it will consume of electricity, and see how much it will earn you in bitcoins. Looking at products with this in mind, 130nm will remain a relevant choice for many more months. I am sure AM pricing policy will constantly remind that to everybody.
When FC says "gen2 will come in time", you are wrong to think it is a way to admit they are late. It simply means "at the most appropriate time". You should really wonder why AM does not agree with you as to what is the most appropriate time...

I also share Franktank's positive view of two aspects:
1) The cooling system. Nobody saw that coming! It may sound a bit of a detail, but for me it's not: if you manage a farm of 100TH/s, that can make a huge difference in terms of electricity/maintenance. Plus, this is going slightly further bitcoin mining alone. Isn't that what many had advise AM to do?
2) The HK data center. AM is moving toward more decentralization (for the farm it manages itself). They spoke about moving partially to HK, now it becomes reality and this is very good news also for resilience to legislation matters.

Monero's privacy and therefore fungibility are MUCH stronger than Bitcoin's. 
This makes Monero a better candidate to deserve the term "digital cash".
freedomno1
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1806
Merit: 1090


Learning the troll avoidance button :)


View Profile
September 24, 2013, 04:05:31 PM
 #13314

Custom Cooling Systems
We have been finalizing on our HK datacenter with our professional partner on immersion cooling. This product will be of interest both miners, and other industries that require cooling of similar hardware. Our cooling system partner built it as an exhibition house where everything is clean and shiny for investors/buyers to visit and for ASICMINER to make videos as a demonstration.

This is the most interesting part of the news. Their first datacenter is in Shenzen, curious about the capacity of this second data center. The immersion cooling news means they are expanding beyond just Bitcoin mining and hardware sales.

I have a hunch on what system they are using but it is interesting news

Believing in Bitcoins and it's ability to change the world
tarmi
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218
Merit: 1010


View Profile
September 24, 2013, 04:22:56 PM
 #13315

so most if not all blades are going to be sold and franchised.


We are in ASIC bubble (which isnt sustainable) and people today are much more aware of the risks and implications of buying ASIC miners.  

I think that time of hysterical buys of overpriced hardware is over. why would anyone spend and risk their bitcoins to buy asic miner?

That's a problem mostly for sellers/retailers and for particular miners.

Most of the new players have not amortised their original investment yet. Be it time or money. They will have to face higher pressure than those who already have their infrastructure in place and have been long running on profit.


new players (bitfury) are already hashing for months with their gear, they are deploying 8 x ASICminer hashrate, and are selling chips for premium prices.

I would say its quite the opposite: ASICminer is facing higher pressure now then 6 months ago.

  
bbxx
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 728
Merit: 500


cryptoshark


View Profile WWW
September 24, 2013, 04:28:25 PM
 #13316

Custom Cooling Systems
We have been finalizing on our HK datacenter with our professional partner on immersion cooling. This product will be of interest both miners, and other industries that require cooling of similar hardware. Our cooling system partner built it as an exhibition house where everything is clean and shiny for investors/buyers to visit and for ASICMINER to make videos as a demonstration.

This is the most interesting part of the news. Their first datacenter is in Shenzen, curious about the capacity of this second data center. The immersion cooling news means they are expanding beyond just Bitcoin mining and hardware sales.

I have a hunch on what system they are using but it is interesting news

I hope that friedcat will do and sell this extremly overpriced Novec 7000 cheap Smiley
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=255613.0;all
Vycid
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336
Merit: 250


♫ the AM bear who cares ♫


View Profile
September 24, 2013, 04:33:43 PM
 #13317

I totally share Strange Vlad's feeling:
Many of you seem to believe that thiner chips instantly make the previous ones obsolete. But from a miner point of view, the equation is simple: see what you can get for which price, see how much it will consume of electricity, and see how much it will earn you in bitcoins. Looking at products with this in mind, 130nm will remain a relevant choice for many more months. I am sure AM pricing policy will constantly remind that to everybody.
When FC says "gen2 will come in time", you are wrong to think it is a way to admit they are late. It simply means "at the most appropriate time". You should really wonder why AM does not agree with you as to what is the most appropriate time...

First - the process size (130nm, 55/45nm, 28nm, etc) has nothing to do with the chip thickness.  That is determined by the thickness of the wafer, which is 400-800 microns thick (it's actually usually more for smaller process nodes, since 300mm wafers are used and those have to be thicker to keep the wafer from flexing/shattering).

The process size instead refers to the standard half-pitch of a memory cell. That doesn't really apply to a SHA256 ASIC, but it is a measure of how small the process can reliably make things. A die shrink (logic's 32nm -> 22nm for example) typically doubles the amount of standard cells that can fit on a die of fixed size. For SHA256 applications, this means precisely double the speed (and probably less power use per GH). Since the assembly is a major part of the costs,  and you can get twice as much out of one chip, you've basically halved your costs per GH, AND made it easier to deploy a large amount of hashpower.

So that's 32->22, one 2x shrink. For 130-> 28 we expect approximately 21.5x performance (feel free to check my math). Probably more, since professionals will be doing the 28 designs and FC's 130 design was basically a hobby project.

The process node matters. Intel's whole business model has relied for decades on staying a process node ahead of their competitors. Seems to be working.

“Risk comes from not knowing what you're doing”
― Warren Buffett

kjj
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1302
Merit: 1024



View Profile
September 24, 2013, 05:22:06 PM
 #13318

The process size instead refers to the standard half-pitch of a memory cell. That doesn't really apply to a SHA256 ASIC, but it is a measure of how small the process can reliably make things.

This is typically called the "minimum feature size".  It has a bunch of other names too, like "critical dimension", etc, but I feel that "feature size" gives the best immediate understanding.

17Np17BSrpnHCZ2pgtiMNnhjnsWJ2TMqq8
I routinely ignore posters with paid advertising in their sigs.  You should too.
romerun
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1078
Merit: 1001


Bitcoin is new, makes sense to hodl.


View Profile
September 24, 2013, 05:45:08 PM
 #13319

mean while, cointerra have just got FPGA working, is it good or bad news
Gomeler
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 697
Merit: 500



View Profile
September 24, 2013, 05:53:18 PM
 #13320

Interesting regarding the franchising. I hope more information comes out as I have ~60 kW of electrical capacity sitting idle due to increasing difficulty making any ASIC purchases a risky gamble. Winter is coming and while $0.076/kWhr might not be the most competitive, I'm sure it'll be competitive for a few months.
Pages: « 1 ... 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 [666] 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 ... 1348 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!