binaryFate
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Still wild and free
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September 17, 2013, 03:01:00 PM |
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Nice to see these explanations on the topic!
Since we're on it, I wonder something. Sorry if I don't use the proper vocabulary...
For jumping to smaller nodes, can we reuse the same "design"? Is it what is called a mask? And does it look like a kind of map that then can be scaled to different node sizes?
In other words, how "re-usable" are the efforts invested in designing the 130nm chips when jumping to smaller nodes?
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Monero's privacy and therefore fungibility are MUCH stronger than Bitcoin's. This makes Monero a better candidate to deserve the term "digital cash".
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runeks
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Activity: 980
Merit: 1008
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September 17, 2013, 03:11:41 PM |
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Thanks for the explanation, DeathAndTaxes. Always interesting learning about this fabrication stuff.
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Strange Vlad
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September 17, 2013, 03:23:00 PM |
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For jumping to smaller nodes, can we reuse the same "design"? Is it what is called a mask? And does it look like a kind of map that then can be scaled to different node sizes?
In other words, how "re-usable" are the efforts invested in designing the 130nm chips when jumping to smaller nodes?
If the next node is close enough (like 65->55nm) it's often possible to do so-called 'optical shrink', that is just slightly zoom the design, like how Bitfury started developing 65nm but then jumped to 55nm mid-way. However, it's usually not enough if we are switching from, say 130nm to 55nm, because distant nodes have very different physical properties, and consequently, different rules for transistor dimensions, which means that the design usually has to be heavily modified or started from scratch. |
Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.
1CdVTkA288cd3m1jkdqPjUfhQ5ebei8gVT
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Puppet
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Activity: 980
Merit: 1040
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September 17, 2013, 03:36:14 PM |
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If the next node is close enough (like 65->55nm) it's often possible to do so-called 'optical shrink', that is just slightly zoom the design, like how Bitfury started developing 65nm but then jumped to 55nm mid-way. However, it's usually not enough if we are switching from, say 130nm to 55nm, because distant nodes have very different physical properties, and consequently, different rules for transistor dimensions, which means that the design usually has to be heavily modified or started from scratch.
To add to that, you always have to develop a new mask set too, even if you want to move production to another fab (unless it uses the *exact* same process which is uncommon) or even to change from a HP (fast) to a LP (lower power) process at the same node at the same fab. A maskset, especially at these small process nodes, is a huge cost, probably the bulk of the NRE for bitcoin asics. |
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candoo
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September 17, 2013, 06:31:06 PM |
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Please increase hadalla hashrate . We need 18% hash plants to get better diveidends
salam!
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Einer trage des andern Last, so werdet ihr das Gesetz Christi erfüllen.
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velacreations
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September 17, 2013, 07:42:48 PM |
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Please increase hadalla hashrate . We need 18% hash plants to get better diveidends
salam!
it loks like it might be increasing, 24 hours is ~50 TH/s |
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candoo
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September 17, 2013, 07:47:09 PM |
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Please increase hadalla hashrate . We need 18% hash plants to get better diveidends
salam!
it loks like it might be increasing, 24 hours is ~50 TH/s My friend my friend. This is good. Allah bless you!! ALLAHU AKHBAR! |
Einer trage des andern Last, so werdet ihr das Gesetz Christi erfüllen.
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lophie
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September 18, 2013, 12:12:59 AM |
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Please increase hadalla hashrate . We need 18% hash plants to get better diveidends
salam!
it loks like it might be increasing, 24 hours is ~50 TH/s My friend my friend. This is good. Allah bless you!! ALLAHU AKHBAR! Quit with the stereotyping. I find it very offending. Tefham wala la's? A7trm nafsk. |
Will take me a while to climb up again, But where is a will, there is a way...
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VolanicEruptor
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September 18, 2013, 12:21:48 AM |
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Please increase hadalla hashrate . We need 18% hash plants to get better diveidends
salam!
it loks like it might be increasing, 24 hours is ~50 TH/s My friend my friend. This is good. Allah bless you!! ALLAHU AKHBAR! Quit with the stereotyping. I find it very offending. Tefham wala la's? A7trm nafsk. says the guy with the swastika |
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philipma1957
Legendary
 Online
Activity: 4102
Merit: 7763
'The right to privacy matters'
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September 18, 2013, 12:25:08 AM |
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Please increase hadalla hashrate . We need 18% hash plants to get better diveidends
salam!
it loks like it might be increasing, 24 hours is ~50 TH/s My friend my friend. This is good. Allah bless you!! ALLAHU AKHBAR! Quit with the stereotyping. I find it very offending. Tefham wala la's? A7trm nafsk. says the guy with the swastika yeah I find the swastika offensive. I also found the Muslim 'jokes' offensive. I have no room for that nasty stuff on this thread. |
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creativex
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September 18, 2013, 12:29:11 AM |
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yeah I find the swastika offensive. I also found the Muslim 'jokes' offensive. I have no room for that nasty stuff on this thread. The meaning of this symbol was corrupted by a madman. The word "swastika" comes from the Sanskrit svastika - "su" (meaning "good" or "auspicious") combined with "asti" (meaning "it is"), along with the diminutive suffix "ka." The swastika literally means "it is good." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika |
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lophie
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September 18, 2013, 12:29:47 AM |
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I am a muslim Arab born and raised in Mecca. Married to a Buddhist. I would know if adopting the swastika as an avatar was offensive and I know what he wrote and the way he wrote it is damn offensive and stereotyping.
Lets not dwell in this anymore in this thread. The guy was a jerk please don't defend him. Thanks for understanding.
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Will take me a while to climb up again, But where is a will, there is a way...
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gyverlb
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September 18, 2013, 12:31:25 AM |
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says the guy with the swastika
yeah I find the swastika offensive. I'm not sure of the reasons for lophie's avatar but I don't associate it with the Nazi party. It isn't 45° rotated and is bent in the opposite direction. Check Wikipedia for possible interpretations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika. |
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KCBitcoin
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September 18, 2013, 12:34:04 AM |
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I am a muslim Arab born and raised in Mecca. Married to a Buddhist. I would know if adopting the swastika as an avatar was offensive and I know what he wrote and the way he wrote it is damn offensive and stereotyping.
Lets not dwell in this anymore in this thread. The guy was a jerk please don't defend him. Thanks for understanding.
this symbol is indeed pretty sensitive in some western countries. |
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lophie
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September 18, 2013, 12:38:14 AM |
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I am a muslim Arab born and raised in Mecca. Married to a Buddhist. I would know if adopting the swastika as an avatar was offensive and I know what he wrote and the way he wrote it is damn offensive and stereotyping.
Lets not dwell in this anymore in this thread. The guy was a jerk please don't defend him. Thanks for understanding.
this symbol is indeed pretty sensitive in some western countries. Like what was posted a minute ago. Not tilted, other direction. Ancient symbol with a beautiful meaning. About time people learn real history. |
Will take me a while to climb up again, But where is a will, there is a way...
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VolanicEruptor
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September 18, 2013, 12:39:38 AM |
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I am a muslim Arab born and raised in Mecca. Married to a Buddhist. I would know if adopting the swastika as an avatar was offensive and I know what he wrote and the way he wrote it is damn offensive and stereotyping.
Lets not dwell in this anymore in this thread. The guy was a jerk please don't defend him. Thanks for understanding.
this symbol is indeed pretty sensitive in some western countries. Like what was posted a minute ago. Not tilted, other direction. Ancient symbol with a beautiful meaning. About time people learn real history. Sorry I thought WW1/WW2 was considered real history.  |
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creativex
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September 18, 2013, 12:41:46 AM |
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I am a muslim Arab born and raised in Mecca. Married to a Buddhist. I would know if adopting the swastika as an avatar was offensive and I know what he wrote and the way he wrote it is damn offensive and stereotyping.
Lets not dwell in this anymore in this thread. The guy was a jerk please don't defend him. Thanks for understanding.
this symbol is indeed pretty sensitive in some western countries. Like what was posted a minute ago. Not tilted, other direction. Ancient symbol with a beautiful meaning. About time people learn real history. Sorry I thought WW2 was considered real history. A MADMAN chose a symbol that existed LONG before his birth. He corrupted that symbol and used it as a symbol of terror. |
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VolanicEruptor
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September 18, 2013, 12:50:37 AM |
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I am a muslim Arab born and raised in Mecca. Married to a Buddhist. I would know if adopting the swastika as an avatar was offensive and I know what he wrote and the way he wrote it is damn offensive and stereotyping.
Lets not dwell in this anymore in this thread. The guy was a jerk please don't defend him. Thanks for understanding.
this symbol is indeed pretty sensitive in some western countries. Like what was posted a minute ago. Not tilted, other direction. Ancient symbol with a beautiful meaning. About time people learn real history. Sorry I thought WW2 was considered real history. A MADMAN chose a symbol that existed LONG before his birth. He corrupted that symbol and used it as a symbol of terror. Heard you the first time.. that doesn't mean his actions didn't change the meaning of the symbol. When someones actions make it famous, then it carries a different meaning for most people. |
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gyverlb
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September 18, 2013, 01:04:00 AM |
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I am a muslim Arab born and raised in Mecca. Married to a Buddhist. I would know if adopting the swastika as an avatar was offensive and I know what he wrote and the way he wrote it is damn offensive and stereotyping.
Lets not dwell in this anymore in this thread. The guy was a jerk please don't defend him. Thanks for understanding.
this symbol is indeed pretty sensitive in some western countries. Like what was posted a minute ago. Not tilted, other direction. Ancient symbol with a beautiful meaning. About time people learn real history. Sorry I thought WW2 was considered real history. A MADMAN chose a symbol that existed LONG before his birth. He corrupted that symbol and used it as a symbol of terror. Heard you the first time.. that doesn't mean his actions didn't change the meaning of the symbol. When someones actions make it famous, then it carries a different meaning for most uneducated people not even trying to change their condition. FTFY (unfortunately most/uneducated might designate the same people). |
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velacreations
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September 18, 2013, 01:06:01 AM |
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ok, guys, whatever
div predictions for tomorrow? hardware sales estimates for this week? anything else relevant to the discussion?
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