ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[FUR11]

Yeah, it's unnerving! But not unheard of. FC kept silent before... I still believe in him. Gen 3 was a lot of bad luck, a declining BTC price, and a stronger competition. I think he will only announce gen 4, when it's ready and confirmed to work. As not to create a disappointment!

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[sngwinner]

Yeah, it's unnerving! But not unheard of. FC kept silent before... I still believe in him. Gen 3 was a lot of bad luck, a declining BTC price, and a stronger competition. I think he will only announce gen 4, when it's ready and confirmed to work. As not to create a disappointment!

But there are plenty of other things to update besides progress on gen 4! What's our hashrate? Do we have franchisees hashing away? What do our financials look like? How many gen 3 chips do we have left that we won't be using to self mine?

[FUR11]

Yeah, it's unnerving! But not unheard of. FC kept silent before... I still believe in him. Gen 3 was a lot of bad luck, a declining BTC price, and a stronger competition. I think he will only announce gen 4, when it's ready and confirmed to work. As not to create a disappointment!

But there are plenty of other things to update besides progress on gen 4! What's our hashrate? Do we have franchisees hashing away? What do our financials look like? How many gen 3 chips do we have left that we won't be using to self mine?

I guess FC considers those information 'secret'. Maybe he deems it important not to give those information away to the competition, for some reason. The most probable explanation, though would be that he simply does not care to tell us. He's still honest, and working for his shareholders, yet he doesn't see the need in answering our questions.

[sngwinner]

Yeah, it's unnerving! But not unheard of. FC kept silent before... I still believe in him. Gen 3 was a lot of bad luck, a declining BTC price, and a stronger competition. I think he will only announce gen 4, when it's ready and confirmed to work. As not to create a disappointment!

But there are plenty of other things to update besides progress on gen 4! What's our hashrate? Do we have franchisees hashing away? What do our financials look like? How many gen 3 chips do we have left that we won't be using to self mine?

I guess FC considers those information 'secret'. Maybe he deems it important not to give those information away to the competition, for some reason. The most probable explanation, though would be that he simply does not care to tell us. He's still honest, and working for his shareholders, yet he doesn't see the need in answering our questions.

The problem is, your boldest statement can't be verified. He hasn't paid a dividend and there is no accounting for the company's revenues or assets and liabilities. I'm not trying to spread FUD, but maybe other people will realize why FC should address shareholders instead of just trusting he's working for us. Everyone should also take everything I'm saying with a grain of salt because I own less than 0.01% of the outstanding shares in this company

[mrlupin]

In a few words:

 - No upside. There is absolutely no upside whatsoever in revealing the strategy to the public. Rule #1 of business, don't give away your strategy. If you do, it's for pushing around the competition or raise money. They don't need to do any of that right now.

 - You have no power. if FC had wanted to run away you could not do anything about it anyways. Info or no info.
 With info: No one would want to buy your shares.
 Without info, you would not know, but the market would be so thin no one would buy.

 - You have proof of honesty and no proof of dishonesty. Honesty is demonstrated by track record, products shipping and conference. Not by incessant online blabbering ("communication"). Cf. all the other scams who gave ample information about things that did not exist.

A final word if you are still not convinced: if AM was a scam, they would try to unload as many shares as possible at a high price. For that they would communicate a lot and build expectation to jack up the stock price. That did not happen.

Investing is not for everyone, you need an attention span of months and determination. If you don't have the necessary attention span, it's called speculation. AM has designed its business and communication strategy to attract investors and shake off the speculators. This situation is ideal, the insecure are leaving the boat so that only the ones with strong will stay - therefore the stock price will be steadier over time.

[FUR11]

In a few words:

 - No upside. There is absolutely no upside whatsoever in revealing the strategy to the public. Rule #1 of business, don't give away your strategy. If you do, it's for pushing around the competition or raise money. They don't need to do any of that right now.

 - You have no power. if FC had wanted to run away you could not do anything about it anyways. Info or no info.
 With info: No one would want to buy your shares.
 Without info, you would not know, but the market would be so thin no one would buy.

 - You have proof of honesty and no proof of dishonesty. Honesty is demonstrated by track record, products shipping and conference. Not by incessant online blabbering ("communication"). Cf. all the other scams who gave ample information about things that did not exist.

A final word if you are still not convinced: if AM was a scam, they would try to unload as many shares as possible at a high price. For that they would communicate a lot and build expectation to jack up the stock price. That did not happen.

Investing is not for everyone, you need an attention span of months and determination. If you don't have the necessary attention span, it's called speculation. AM has designed its business and communication strategy to attract investors and shake off the speculators. This situation is ideal, the insecure are leaving the boat so that only the ones with strong will stay - therefore the stock price will be steadier over time.

Yes, this essentially is what I'm thinking. Playing the devil's advocate though I gotta say that FC may simply fail in achieving his targets, not because of being fraudulent, but rather incompetent (~ Hanlon's Razor). I don't think this is the case, but we can't rule it out.

sngwinner, what I stated was merely an assumption, not a bold claim You are completely right by staying careful!

[Puppet]

In a few words:

 - No upside. There is absolutely no upside whatsoever in revealing the strategy to the public. Rule #1 of business, don't give away your strategy. If you do, it's for pushing around the competition or raise money. They don't need to do any of that right now.

Thats simply untrue in the zero sum game that the mining market is. If anything, you *want* to let your competitors know, possibly even exaggerate what your plans are.

Make everyone believe you will have x exahash online online in y months with 0.1W/GH would go a long way to kill your competition stone dead, both by stopping them from getting (pre)oders and making them and their investors think twice about their own planned capacity. Why do you think bitfury is making public what they are aiming for and the capacity they are planning to put online? Id quiver in my boots if I ran a large scale mining op. Or for that matter, held AM shares. 100MW and 0.2J/GH in a few months. 0.1J/GH next year. Fuck me, if BFL had said that Id shrug it off, but when bitfury says that, especially after securing the funding,  it aint a joke.

With info: No one would want to buy your shares.

I guess its not "good info" that you are thinking off.

[mrlupin]

In a few words:

 - No upside. There is absolutely no upside whatsoever in revealing the strategy to the public. Rule #1 of business, don't give away your strategy. If you do, it's for pushing around the competition or raise money. They don't need to do any of that right now.

Thats simply untrue in the zero sum game that the mining market is. If anything, you *want* to let your competitors know, possibly even exaggerate what your plans are.

Make everyone believe you will have x exahash online online in y months with 0.1W/GH would go a long way to kill your competition stone dead, both by stopping them from getting (pre)oders and making them and their investors think twice about their own planned capacity. Why do you think bitfury is making public what they are aiming for and the capacity they are planning to put online? Id quiver in my boots if I ran a large scale mining op. Or for that matter, held AM shares. 100MW and 0.2J/GH in a few months. 0.1J/GH next year. Fuck me, if BFL had said that Id shrug it off, but when bitfury says that, especially after securing the funding,  it aint a joke.

Fair point, I think we agree, goes back to what I said about raising money and pushing around the competition, looks like it's what BitFury did and is now trying to do respectively . So now AM has a strategic advantage, Bitfury has revealed its plan and AM hasn't. AM can decide whether they think it's true or not and whether they want to act on it or not.

e.g.
- by finding who the suppliers of Bitfury are and cutting deals with them
- then by finding who the customers and distributors of Bitfury are and cutting deals with them
- then by starving BitFury based on price and going to their VC to get the next round of funding showing them their strategic superiority
- then by poaching demoralized BitFury employees

Or simply
- by outdoing BitFury on volume

AM has a large stash of cash, not sure about BitFury, a simple approach would be to prevent BitFury from doing any sales for the next year by selling at a lower price, starve off BitFury then either buy them or poach their employees.

I am not advocating they should do any of that, but it could be an effective and merciless strategy (yet somewhat dirty and costly).

[Puppet]

I'll have some of what you are smoking..

[RoadStress]

In a few words:

 - No upside. There is absolutely no upside whatsoever in revealing the strategy to the public. Rule #1 of business, don't give away your strategy. If you do, it's for pushing around the competition or raise money. They don't need to do any of that right now.

Thats simply untrue in the zero sum game that the mining market is. If anything, you *want* to let your competitors know, possibly even exaggerate what your plans are.

Make everyone believe you will have x exahash online online in y months with 0.1W/GH would go a long way to kill your competition stone dead, both by stopping them from getting (pre)oders and making them and their investors think twice about their own planned capacity. Why do you think bitfury is making public what they are aiming for and the capacity they are planning to put online? Id quiver in my boots if I ran a large scale mining op. Or for that matter, held AM shares. 100MW and 0.2J/GH in a few months. 0.1J/GH next year. Fuck me, if BFL had said that Id shrug it off, but when bitfury says that, especially after securing the funding,  it aint a joke.

Fair point, I think we agree, goes back to what I said about raising money and pushing around the competition, looks like it's what BitFury did and is now trying to do respectively . So now AM has a strategic advantage, Bitfury has revealed its plan and AM hasn't. AM can decide whether they think it's true or not and whether they want to act on it or not.

e.g.
- by finding who the suppliers of Bitfury are and cutting deals with them
- then by finding who the customers and distributors of Bitfury are and cutting deals with them
- then by starving BitFury based on price and going to their VC to get the next round of funding showing them their strategic superiority
- then by poaching demoralized BitFury employees

Or simply
- by outdoing BitFury on volume

AM has a large stash of cash, not sure about BitFury, a simple approach would be to prevent BitFury from doing any sales for the next year by selling at a lower price, starve off BitFury then either buy them or poach their employees.

I am not advocating they should do any of that, but it could be an effective and merciless strategy (yet somewhat dirty and costly).

"AM has strategic advantage for not revealing their plans"...wow...simply WOW!Another blind shareholder...This is not a Tom Cruise movie and while AM has their supposed strategic advantage Bitfury is bringing lots of MW online.

[mrlupin]

Bitcoin hashrate today: 250 Ph and flat
https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate?showDataPoints=false&timespan=&show_header=true&daysAverageString=7&scale=0&address=

BitFury: 100 MW with .2 J/Gh = 500 Ph

If BitFury wants to roll out 500Ph and control less than 51% they need to:
 - 1) either have the network reach 1 Eh, therefore they need someone else to add another 250Ph
 - 2) either start selling and shipping their hardware / chips, in which case the 100MW argument becomes irrelevant.

Let's go with 1), 250 Ph / 1 Eh = 25% of the network

Who is going to sell / own those 250 Ph?
Seems in line with AM's plan.

[sngwinner]

In a few words:

 - No upside. There is absolutely no upside whatsoever in revealing the strategy to the public. Rule #1 of business, don't give away your strategy. If you do, it's for pushing around the competition or raise money. They don't need to do any of that right now.

 - You have no power. if FC had wanted to run away you could not do anything about it anyways. Info or no info.
 With info: No one would want to buy your shares.
 Without info, you would not know, but the market would be so thin no one would buy.

 - You have proof of honesty and no proof of dishonesty. Honesty is demonstrated by track record, products shipping and conference. Not by incessant online blabbering ("communication"). Cf. all the other scams who gave ample information about things that did not exist.

A final word if you are still not convinced: if AM was a scam, they would try to unload as many shares as possible at a high price. For that they would communicate a lot and build expectation to jack up the stock price. That did not happen.



Investing is not for everyone, you need an attention span of months and determination. If you don't have the necessary attention span, it's called speculation. AM has designed its business and communication strategy to attract investors and shake off the speculators. This situation is ideal, the insecure are leaving the boat so that only the ones with strong will stay - therefore the stock price will be steadier over time.

Yes, this essentially is what I'm thinking. Playing the devil's advocate though I gotta say that FC may simply fail in achieving his targets, not because of being fraudulent, but rather incompetent (~ Hanlon's Razor). I don't think this is the case, but we can't rule it out.

sngwinner, what I stated was merely an assumption, not a bold claim You are completely right by staying careful!

It should have read bolded not boldest. Sorry, autocorrect. Overall I still believe and trust in Friedcat but I do want an update on what's going on and trying to show that it isn't a bad idea for fried car to give some insight.

[stompysteve]

In a few words:

 - No upside. There is absolutely no upside whatsoever in revealing the strategy to the public. Rule #1 of business, don't give away your strategy. If you do, it's for pushing around the competition or raise money. They don't need to do any of that right now.

 - You have no power. if FC had wanted to run away you could not do anything about it anyways. Info or no info.
 With info: No one would want to buy your shares.
 Without info, you would not know, but the market would be so thin no one would buy.

 - You have proof of honesty and no proof of dishonesty. Honesty is demonstrated by track record, products shipping and conference. Not by incessant online blabbering ("communication"). Cf. all the other scams who gave ample information about things that did not exist.

A final word if you are still not convinced: if AM was a scam, they would try to unload as many shares as possible at a high price. For that they would communicate a lot and build expectation to jack up the stock price. That did not happen.



Investing is not for everyone, you need an attention span of months and determination. If you don't have the necessary attention span, it's called speculation. AM has designed its business and communication strategy to attract investors and shake off the speculators. This situation is ideal, the insecure are leaving the boat so that only the ones with strong will stay - therefore the stock price will be steadier over time.

Yes, this essentially is what I'm thinking. Playing the devil's advocate though I gotta say that FC may simply fail in achieving his targets, not because of being fraudulent, but rather incompetent (~ Hanlon's Razor). I don't think this is the case, but we can't rule it out.

sngwinner, what I stated was merely an assumption, not a bold claim You are completely right by staying careful!

It should have read bolded not boldest. Sorry, autocorrect. Overall I still believe and trust in Friedcat but I do want an update on what's going on and trying to show that it isn't a bad idea for fried car to give some insight.

autocorrect from friedcat to fried car lol

Hopefully some news by the end of the month after prismas round 1 is over(27th)  I feel like theres a reason for a date being set for then I dont see price being dropped lower yet

[RoadStress]

Bitcoin hashrate today: 250 Ph and flat
https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate?showDataPoints=false&timespan=&show_header=true&daysAverageString=7&scale=0&address=

BitFury: 100 MW with .2 J/Gh = 500 Ph

If BitFury wants to roll out 500Ph and control less than 51% they need to:
 - 1) either have the network reach 1 Eh, therefore they need someone else to add another 250Ph
 - 2) either start selling and shipping their hardware / chips, in which case the 100MW argument becomes irrelevant.

Let's go with 1), 250 Ph / 1 Eh = 25% of the network

Who is going to sell / own those 250 Ph?
Seems in line with AM's plan.

Let me see if I got this right. Are you stating that in order for BitFury to roll out 500PH they need AM to sell/deploy 250PH? Is this correct?

[Puppet]

Bitcoin hashrate today: 250 Ph and flat
https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate?showDataPoints=false&timespan=&show_header=true&daysAverageString=7&scale=0&address=

BitFury: 100 MW with .2 J/Gh = 500 Ph

If BitFury wants to roll out 500Ph and control less than 51% they need to:
 - 1) either have the network reach 1 Eh, therefore they need someone else to add another 250Ph
 - 2) either start selling and shipping their hardware / chips, in which case the 100MW argument becomes irrelevant.

Let's go with 1), 250 Ph / 1 Eh = 25% of the network

Who is going to sell / own those 250 Ph?
Seems in line with AM's plan.

You're absolutely bonkers trying to spin this as somehow being a positive for AM.  Its right up there with the dude saying having 3x worse power efficiency is a good thing because it allows you to serve different markets.

A few hints for you: BF has no incentive to maintain less than 51% of the network. Aside from selling actual hardware they also resell and host a significant portion of their hashrate to partners like cryptx and DigitalBTC. No one cares if >51% of the network runs on hardware produced by the same vendor. 

Moreover, BF doesnt have to fill its DC's to capacity. They will add hashrate for as long it makes financial sense, regardless of their % of the network. If it no longer makes financial sense for BF to add more, despite having access to hardware at cost, access to extremely cheap hosting and electricity (check out their datacenter design and electricity prices in georgia republic) and despite probably having (by far) the most power efficient hardware, then who do you think will buy or deploy AM gear?

Of course, bitfury still has to make good on its promises, it may fail to deliver, or you may hope on it being a bluff, but based on their trackrecord, I wouldnt bet a satoshi on that.

[jimmothy]

Bitcoin hashrate today: 250 Ph and flat
https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate?showDataPoints=false&timespan=&show_header=true&daysAverageString=7&scale=0&address=

BitFury: 100 MW with .2 J/Gh = 500 Ph

If BitFury wants to roll out 500Ph and control less than 51% they need to:
 - 1) either have the network reach 1 Eh, therefore they need someone else to add another 250Ph
 - 2) either start selling and shipping their hardware / chips, in which case the 100MW argument becomes irrelevant.

Let's go with 1), 250 Ph / 1 Eh = 25% of the network

Who is going to sell / own those 250 Ph?
Seems in line with AM's plan.

You're absolutely bonkers trying to spin this as somehow being a positive for AM.  Its right up there with the dude saying having 3x worse power efficiency is a good thing because it allows you to serve different markets.

A few hints for you: BF has no incentive to maintain less than 51% of the network. Aside from selling actual hardware they also resell and host a significant portion of their hashrate to partners like cryptx and DigitalBTC. No one cares if >51% of the network runs on hardware produced by the same vendor. 

Moreover, BF doesnt have to fill its DC's to capacity. They will add hashrate for as long it makes financial sense, regardless of their % of the network. If it no longer makes financial sense for BF to add more, despite having access to hardware at cost, access to extremely cheap hosting and electricity (check out their datacenter design and electricity prices in georgia republic) and despite probably having (by far) the most power efficient hardware, then who do you think will buy or deploy AM gear?

Of course, bitfury still has to make good on its promises, it may fail to deliver, or you may hope on it being a bluff, but based on their trackrecord, I wouldnt bet a satoshi on that.

You mean Bitfurys track record of failed 40nm, 28nm, and 20nm ASICs? I would bet a few satoshis on them missing their target again.

Don't forget that when Bitfury says 0.2 w/gh they mean underclocked to the best possible efficiency. They will most likely fill the DC with ~0.5 w/gh hardware until it makes sense to underclock.

[Puppet]

Keep dreaming Jimmy. Bitfury already manages 0.62J/GH at the wall on 55nm with their very first design. And it can do 0.5J/GH when underclocked. There never was a failed 40, 28 let alone 20nm BF design.

[cs54]

In my view the pulse of AM these days is the good old AM mining address:

https://blockchain.info/address/1HtUGfbDcMzTeHWx2Dbgnhc6kYnj1Hp24i

While I don't know where those bits are going, at least someone is sweeping them on a somewhat regular basis, so I guess that's comforting?

[jimmothy]

Keep dreaming Jimmy. Bitfury already manages 0.62J/GH at the wall on 55nm with their very first design. And it can do 0.5J/GH when underclocked. There never was a failed 40, 28 let alone 20nm BF design.

How do you know there wasn't a failed 40,28 and 20nm design? Do you have better insider knowledge than the CEO of SPtech who is in bed with Bitfury?

Their first chip is a perfect example of how they will overclock it until they need to underclock.

I'm willing to bet they still haven't underclocked their gen1 hardware because it doesn't make sense financially with their ultra cheap electricity rates.

[jjdub7]

https://blockchain.info/address/3KBUuGko4H5ke7EVsq9B7PLK1c5Askdd7y

Who else thinks they've got the gen1 hardware on as a decoy lolol