ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[gogxmagog]

let the arguments about specs begin! AKA Here we go again!

as far as KNC goes, I will believe it when I see it. As far as AM goes; I'm hanging on to the dream. So far neither have done anything tangible in a while. so any FUD on either side is meaningless at this point.

this game is giving me an ulcer.  

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[Chris_Sabian]

It appears the KNC site is being DDoS'ed right now but from what I understand their 16nm 'Solar' chips scheduled for deployment in Q1 2015 will achieve 0.07 W per Gh/s.

lol

[jjdub7]

Well Amhash already sold more than I would ever though would be possible. I mean who in his right mind would right now buy anything that revolves around mining...

amhash is probably the best cloud mining out there currently between the price and low maintenance fees

I bet it still does not make you a profit though  

It will, but only for the short period where it might beat twentyseventy's B.MINE, which does not have maintenance fees.  If BTC were at $1000 right now, this could have been a very long period of time.  Unfortunately...no, you're right - when demand for the AMhash units dries up, the price will crash (leaving AM unit hodlerz with teh profitzes!! AND DIVSSSSS!!!!!!1!!!)

[dropt]

According to http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/36064-tsmc-volume-production-of-16nm-finfet-in-2h-2015 TSMC isn't doing mass production of 16nm FF until late Q2/Q3.  Ergo: KnC is full of shit.  As for 0.07w/GH I'll believe it when i see it.

[hdbuck]

i believe it when i see it. ^TM

should be a motto to all them ASIC manufacturers.

[Puppet]

According to http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/36064-tsmc-volume-production-of-16nm-finfet-in-2h-2015 TSMC isn't doing mass production of 16nm FF until late Q2/Q3.  Ergo: KnC is full of shit.  As for 0.07w/GH I'll believe it when i see it.

Volume of Bitcoin asic wafers is typically counted in low double digits.
"volume production" by TSMC standards means on the order of 6 digit wafer starts per week.

Not that Ill believe it before seeing it either.

[rudi]

According to http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/36064-tsmc-volume-production-of-16nm-finfet-in-2h-2015 TSMC isn't doing mass production of 16nm FF until late Q2/Q3.  Ergo: KnC is full of shit.  As for 0.07w/GH I'll believe it when i see it.

Volume of Bitcoin asic wafers is typically counted in low double digits.
"volume production" by TSMC standards means on the order of 6 digit wafer starts per week.

Not that Ill believe it before seeing it either.

But they're going to start with high-volume customers. Apple is the first customer, apparently. KnC is for sure not one of the first customers for TSMC's 16nm process.
So yeah, this claim is intentional bullshit. One can only speculate why they would claim such nonsense.

[Puppet]

Thats nonsense. While apple may gobble up the majority of the high volume production once its available, I assure you the first 16nm wafers will not be high volume Apple products. They will be high risk, low volume, simple designs. In fact for many reasons, bitcoin asics are pretty much an ideal design to help ramp production.

[rudi]

Hm ok, makes sense.
I still doubt the claim, though.

[Puppet]

As do I, but its not inconsistent with TSMC claims.

[raskul]

Coming soon to a KfC near you! 'The Test Wafer MkII' bitcoin mining machine. You liked our 'Test Wafer Miner MKI 'Neptune'? Then mortgage your home and pre-order now!!"

[gogxmagog]

KFC miner, that's funny!

Wait! Could satoshi be Col. Saunders?

[RoadStress]

According to http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/36064-tsmc-volume-production-of-16nm-finfet-in-2h-2015 TSMC isn't doing mass production of 16nm FF until late Q2/Q3.  Ergo: KnC is full of shit.  As for 0.07w/GH I'll believe it when i see it.

KnC doesn't need "mass production". A dozen of wafers isn't mass production and that's what KnC needs. Mass production may be for Samsung, not for KnC. What should worry anyone is that they are upgrading their DC to 30MW and only BitFury can compete with that amount of power. No other hardware manufacturer can compete with these 2 giants. And i will not point it towards AM. I'm looking at everyone right now. If they miss the power by a factor of 3 it means they will hit 0.21W/GH. 30MW should bring you A SHIT TON of hashpower that will be deployed and controlled by KnC in their DC. That means less hassle with shipping and assembling miners. We all know they prefer to use skeleton miners (just like BF).

[jimmothy]

According to http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/36064-tsmc-volume-production-of-16nm-finfet-in-2h-2015 TSMC isn't doing mass production of 16nm FF until late Q2/Q3.  Ergo: KnC is full of shit.  As for 0.07w/GH I'll believe it when i see it.

KnC doesn't need "mass production". A dozen of wafers isn't mass production and that's what KnC needs. Mass production may be for Samsung, not for KnC. What should worry anyone is that they are upgrading their DC to 30MW and only BitFury can compete with that amount of power. No other hardware manufacturer can compete with these 2 giants. And i will not point it towards AM. I'm looking at everyone right now. If they miss the power by a factor of 3 it means they will hit 0.21W/GH. 30MW should bring you A SHIT TON of hashpower that will be deployed and controlled by KnC in their DC. That means less hassle with shipping and assembling miners. We all know they prefer to use skeleton miners (just like BF).

25 MW worth of 0.07 w/gh hardware is ~350 PH/s. A dozen wafers will get them nowhere.

[Dexter770221]

FinFET isn't magic word that alone can reduce power consumption 10 times (vs 20nm planar). It allows to power devices with little bit lower voltages, and this maybe a secret of 0.07W/GH - low power mode. But performance will be ~1/3 of nominal. At normal operation speed it will be more like 0.15W/GH (0.2W at wall).
Of course KnC propably will decide to operate @ low power modes becuse they have access to cheap chips, so it's better for them to put 3 times more miners than have 2 times more power costs.

+this

...
25 MW worth of 0.07 w/gh hardware is ~350 PH/s. A dozen wafers will get them nowhere.

with new node proccess and yield @ 50%....

[SebastianJu]

Thats the best article i found on those KNC Solar Miners: http://www.coindesk.com/kncminer-plans-16nm-bitcoin-mining-asic-launch-2015/

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

No and maybe.

All theoretical profits of AMHash units sold at IPO are distributed as dividends. AM had better have received sales proceeds for the miners supporting the AMHash units sold at IPO.

As for the AMHash units that did not sell at IPO, there is no information as to the operational concept.

What you just said is completely wrong. AMHash is a 5 Ph/s mine created by AM using AM hardware. AMHash is simply a service of AM just like the Prisma is a product of AM. The profit from selling AMHash units are not distributed as dividends to AMHash holders at all. That profit goes to AM. What gets distributed as dividends to AMHash holders is the proceeds form mining, just like someone who bought a miner would get BTC from mining. As for the units that don't sell, they mine for AM, because it's an AM service.

AMHash is created by rockminer, not ASICMINER.

[Dexter770221]

.....

AMHash is created by rockminer, not ASICMINER.

I would say it's close cooperation of those two....

[Puppet]

FinFET isn't magic word that alone can reduce power consumption 10 times (vs 20nm planar). It allows to power devices with little bit lower voltages, and this maybe a secret of 0.07W/GH - low power mode. But performance will be ~1/3 of nominal. At normal operation speed it will be more like 0.15W/GH (0.2W at wall).

Claims of 0.1W/GH at the wall are being made by Bitfury and Spondoolies for their next gen 28nm chips next year. Saying one couldnt do as good, let alone better with 16nm FF+ is ridiculous. Whether or not KNC can and actually will do it remains to be seen of course, but the claim by itself seems perfectly plausible.

Likewise, TSMC 16nm FF+ already is in risk production:

Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. (TSMC) has reached a new milestone. On Wednesday, the company announced that it has entered risk production for its 16nm FinFET Plus (16FF+) process.

It is yet another sign that the world's largest chip foundry is ahead of schedule with its first 3D chips that will be at the core of a new generation of smaller, more powerful mobile devices, according to analysts who cover the company.
[...]
TSMC is conducting small-volume shipments of 16FF+ this quarter, according to Peng.

http://www.eetasia.com/ART_8800706581_480200_NT_b0b285ad.HTM

[Mabsark]

AMHash is created by rockminer, not ASICMINER.

It's managed by Rockminer.

In this contract, the hashrate is provided by ASICMiner, the management is provided by RockMiner, and the platform is provided by HavelockInvestments.
...
Risk control
1. Before IPO closes, ASICMiner has the right to buy back at the price of IPO price * 100.5%.

If it was owned by Rockminer, then Rockminer would have the right to buy back, not ASICMiner.