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I would suggest using alts pairs instead of USD or fiat pairs. There is more risk but also more reward, especially in the case of specific coins set up in such a way that drives regular liquidations such as many POS coins.
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Here we are once again, with you unilaterally determining actual trade to be irrelevant in a system of trust designed to protect new traders. No one ranks up in your system without your permission right? New users will rank up starting with small trades. That is just how it works. You don't have psychic powers to tell you who is who, you are just mass hitting people pretending you don't punish any innocents. Do any of you people have actual lives of your own or is your only method of defining self worth involve obsessive compulsively putting users through daily inquisitions?
I believe I have the following two rights: 1) State my strong opinion on any matter. 2) Exclude anyone for any reason whatsoever.
If you disagree with either one, you are either ignorant or have become delusional in your victim play. Either way, you need to realize that what you say matters to almost nobody here (for a reason). I will state this once more, if one leaves positive ratings for useless nonsense I will exclude them. The same goes for negative ratings. Sure, you can do lots of things. That doesn't maker them a good idea. I see so it is not at all possible you are incorrect in this judgement? Still you wonder why I criticize your behavior when you operate as if your decisions are infallible and every interaction is one focused on an attempt at intimidation. Too bad your sad little jedi mind tricks don't work on me isn't it? It would make things a lot easier for you to push people around without any criticism if I just bought your horse shit that nothing I say matters, and everything you say does, wouldn't it? People like you don't belong in positions of authority. |
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I'm not really urging anyone to ignore anything, I'm just asking for relevance to be considered. Sure, this may irritate you because you empathize with the Covington students. But if I search the forum, will I see a post from either of you condemning the attacks against David Hogg? You definitely wont from me; I had better shit to do LOL. Either be offended by everything, or nothing. Selective outrage is hypocrisy by another name  And @Spendulus, I'm not even joking when I ask you this. Like, what would it take to satisfy your side that Hillary Clinton is either innocent, or untouchable? How is it that through all the investigation launched into her, her organization, there has been nothing? She cant be that slick; supposedly there are books like Clinton Cash extolling the icky vileness of her ways. So many shitty books and docs written about her "evil shenanigans", I can find like 10 unique titles on Amazon in a minute or two. Basically, I'm trying to express that her supposed misdeeds are public knowledge. So if she is a known bad actor, that has faced oversight at the highest levels of government yet avoided prosecution.. .. maybe shes innocent? Whitewater was 70 Million Email Probe was 14 Million Benghazi was 7 Million (fun fact! Congress spent more time investigating this than 9/11. Seriously, look it up) This is the definition of insanity, repetition with the expectation of divergent results. Meullers probe has dredged up shit at a fraction of the time and cost. Say what you will about the man, Meuller is efficient. Anywho, back to the subject. An FBI investigation. A Congressional investigation. And most importantly, intelligence agency oversight as she actively served in office as the Secretary of State. You know. The job you need a security clearance to perform? I understand if the gravity of a security clearance has degraded in the current WH; the highest intelligence designation in the land used to mean something before they just started handing them out like bottled water to the unqualified (Kushner, Bannon). I personally propose we spend exactly as much money investigating Trump as we did Hillary. For the sake of fairness of course XD no stone unturned... Speaking of Stones, *cough* Roger Stone *cough* I bolded the on topic part of your reply. Of course Flying Hellfish likes to be cute and find things like this on topic because he agrees with the political bend of it while removing on topic posts because he doesn't agree with them for being on topic. You have almost no self awareness do you? Changing the discussion to another topic is not an argument. Even under that topic itself, your argument is baseless. Leftists have been getting increasingly violent, hysterical, and detached from reality, and you aren't helping their case with your obsessive insistence on changing the topic so people like you don't have to feel the pain and take a good hard look at the results of the ideologies you support. WAKE UP. YOU LOSE. EVEN IF YOU WIN YOU STILL LOSE. ITS OVER. The Democrat party is over, and I think deep down most of what remains of the Democrat party knows it, which is why they are getting increasingly irrational, hysterical, and violent. |
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Use a neutral rating for documentation, don't trust farm with a spam of worthless positive ratings.
Just for the sake of clarity, what difference does it make? According to suchmoon: Multiple positives from the same user count as one for the purposes of trust score.
So there's no "farming", as such, if that's the case. That is the case, and there is indeed farming. Anyone from DT leaving positive feedback for miniscule amounts is just asking for trouble; we've had more than enough scams from green trusted people. Whilst ultimately multiple ratings from the same person do not increase the overall trust score, it does potray a misleading picture of being "very trusted". Who would a newbie trust: 1) A user with 5 feedback from 5 users. 2) A user with 50 feedback from 3 users. It's trivial really. User kingscrown DT2 added by achow101, kingscrown have left lots of positive feedback's but he is inactive from September 02, 2016, I think achow101 should reconsider that user. The positive feedback of this user reflecting now. Notified him; already removed. Here we are once again, with you unilaterally determining actual trade to be irrelevant in a system of trust designed to protect new traders. No one ranks up in your system without your permission right? New users will rank up starting with small trades. That is just how it works. You don't have psychic powers to tell you who is who, you are just mass hitting people pretending you don't punish any innocents. Do any of you people have actual lives of your own or is your only method of defining self worth involve obsessive compulsively putting users through daily inquisitions? |
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But some other sections on the forum like Bitcoin Technical Support, Development & Technical Discussion even meta have much of the newbies contributing in effective way. This proves that also majority of them come here to learn crypto or trade crypto.
It doesn't prove anything of the sort. ~20k new users get registered every month and ~5k become active (create posts). Few of those may end up in technical discussions. The vast majority are useless bounty-hunting shitposting dregs. You only need to open Patrol to see what's going on. Not that it has much to do with DT. It would be nice if theymos could implement some disincentives for shitposters but for now this needs to be deal with by reporting to moderators and there are many users doing just that. As far as I know, we don't have any psychics on the default trust, so the fact is we do not know what their intent is until they act, and any judgement before then is subjective and fairly arbitrary. However, you make a good point this has nothing to do with trust, and trust really not need be involved to solve any of these problems since it is a moderation issue, not a trust issue. |
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we can argue about this forever, but trust system should be based on TRADE related stuff only (a person who is a scammer, likely scammer or trustworthy).
True but you know bitcointalk forum is bigger than we think and it's not possible to check whether the feedback is for a trade or not. A lot of resources will be needed just to maintain if there are any rules for leaving feedback. It will be like recovering accounts, in fact, it will be more worst than it. That's why I think the current system is okay. No fixed rule but some limitation like one is what JC has mentioned here. Except the system is supposed to be designed to help noobs not get ripped off right? They already are put in a situation of having to check if ratings are for trade or not. You don't think this ambiguity is confusing and might lead to people getting ripped off as a result of the need to blanket every pet peeve with a negative rating? Having a rule doesn't require a lot of resources, in fact it will require less because there will not be as much disagreement over which ratings are acceptable, ending most disputes before they even happen because either it falls within the rules or it doesn't. The only time mediation would be needed of any kind, community or otherwise, is if they are not providing evidence to support their rating. |
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Who the hell said China was the voice of the left? China may be the most capitalistic country on Earth. Anyone who has made it past the party name knows that China isn't like the western left. China has very little moral fiber. They are committing genocide against muslims right now. Chinese society is extremely bigoted and hyperconsumerist, .
This confusion around why we our ideologies are so different should also be a clue to you that...our ideologies are different. The western left values individual liberty and self expression and all of our positions stem from those things. You will continue to suffer from this type of confusion until you grasp the difference between anarchism and authoritarianism.
They are Communist in name and in practice, and as usual you are in way over your pay grade. If you would like an absolute spanking on this subject please do keep arguing that China is not Communist. |
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Most if not all of these events were organized by international forces attempting to soften up the region for the impending military invasion that followed by proxy forces. This is a long term plan laid out by the group known as P.N.A.C. in place before the events of 9/11/01 in order to lay the ground work for an oil pipeline through the region to counter Russia's energy stranglehold on Europe. This is essentially a battle that has been in play since World War 1.
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Either the trust system is for trade or it isn't.
I'm coming to the conclusion that this statement isn't as simple as it would appear. Lets take an actual example. I executed a couple of small purchases of Bitcoin with JackG. They were very quick and easy, and I gave him some positive ratings. That is the primary function of the trust system, and is based on actual events. Now lets move on into the world of conjecture, and consider the possibility of JackG selling his account ( not likely in my opinion ). The buyer would probably pay more for an account with positive trust in double figures, and may consider using it for fraudulent purposes. This means that the sale and purchase of accounts has to be drawn into the trust ranking, and is the reason that I believe that account selling should not be allowed. Now we have to look at signature spamming and cheating on programme managers. If a member is prepared to do that, then he may be prepared to cheat in his trades in an attempt to increase his "earnings". All of this means that "caveat emptor" rules, and you have to consider trust ratings as just a basic guideline, and a resource for further research before you enter into a trade. My negative trust for a member, who just posted a quote with no further comment, was based on the fact that he was attempting to cheat the activity and merit systems in the forum, and this indicated a person of low moral fibre in my opinion. This could be an indication of willingness to cheat bounty managers and other members in the future. There is absolutely no reason you can not raise awareness of this with neutral ratings and posts in reputation and scam accusations. There is a reason proof is required in court, otherwise anyone could accuse anyone of anything at any time, and there is no decent system for redress of grievances, just the "my way or the highway" beat stick method. This constant environment of arbitrary enforcement is toxic and drives away the decent user base because of all of the resulting drama. |
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Doesn't tell you something when the most powerful Communist country on Earth thinks the left in the West is a total joke? You would think people who left Communist nations would be listened to by Socialists and Communists here... but apparently they are white supremacists. Who knew? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlFDRXMz9p4 |
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Not at all the same. The difference is I just explained in detail why this is the case, in addition to oh what, 5 years of history of this to reference since the trust system was implemented? You are pointing to a hypothetical. I am referencing current reality.
You're just giving an opinion like everybody else. Your interpretation of how trust should be used is pretty narrow, but obviously its just an opinion because people use it for much more, and will continue to use it as they see fit (and how is allowed by the forum) regardless of your opinion. Again, you keep pressing the word opinion as if you can keep on this talking point, people will forget that I just in detail using logic explained why this is more than my opinion. Yes this is the status quo. So what? My argument is it should not be. |
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Oblivious reasons... such as calling out a long history of abusive behavior? Again, notice the complete reliance on personal attacks, accusation, and inquisition. Zero discussion of the arguments presented. This is all these people know how to do, mob, bully, and intimidate. This is the type of person that seeks positions of power. These type of people need to be leashed by a simple protocol to keep their hunger for control over anyone who questions them in check.
Nobody that knows your history here should waste their time discussing your bullshit. FYI snowflake, this isn't any of the above but rather friendly advice for The Pharmacist, i.e. none of your butthurt business. Go whine somewhere else, you ain't coming back into DT. Yes, I am sure it is quite shameful. Last I checked this is a public discussion. Perhaps you should move to private messages if you don't wish it to be a public discussion? Or maybe you just want to quietly signal to him to shut his mouth because he is making you all look bad? If anyone without a reputation was dismissed as a scammer (your claim), it would be very hard for them to end up on DT1. They would have been tagged and would have little chance of achieving that. Out of those members I listed, do you think any of them are scammers? I'd like you to answer that question if you wouldn't mind. Anyone who questions the decrees of the forum police overlords* If you don't see all the scamming that's going on here on the forum, you need glasses. And you've been here long enough to know that there's no contracts when someone pulls off a loan scam, PayPal chargebacks, offers 100% ROI within a week, or any of the other typical BCT scams, nor does anyone mention law. Why would we? Nobody is going to the police for any of the typical scammers that DT members tag.
As far as evidence goes, what do you call the information that gets presented in the scam accusation forms that members fill out when they get scammed? How about the alt accounts abusing bounties? The evidence is all there.
The forum polices itself against scams, and DT goes out of its way to help with that. The DT list is certainly not perfect, but it's nowhere near the cabal of power-hungry little Hitlers that you make it out to be. Oh I see it. That is exactly my point. This whole Barney Fife act isn't even putting a tiny dent in the fraud, yet there are plenty of negative results of this assembly line style of negative rating you are so fond of. In all the disagreement real con artists slip in and out. A contract is simply an agreement that is an exchange of value. Your rambling about being no contract is a meaningless misinterpretation of the definition of the word. Either an agreement is honored or it is not. Courts and jurisdictional squabbling need not be involved. If there is evidence... there is evidence... I am not sure what you are arguing about there we agree. Human beings seek and abuse power. We have rules and laws to make sure the damage of this is limited. I think you and your friends have made a better case for requirement for some system of restraint and standard of evidence than I ever could have. |
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Do you think the DT list would be better with you on it?
-snip-
You're wasting your time here TBH. It is clear that certain users are butthurt that the majority consensus has voted to avoid having anything to do with them (because of obvious reasons). Also, JusticeForYou is almost undoubtedly a compromised account pushing this false narrative. Obvious reasons... such as calling out a long history of abusive behavior? Again, notice the complete reliance on personal attacks, accusation, and inquisition. Zero discussion of the arguments presented. This is all these people know how to do, mob, bully, and intimidate. This is the type of person that seeks positions of power. These type of people need to be leashed by a simple protocol to keep their hunger for control over anyone who questions them in check. |
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Again, rather than even attempt to engage in a discussion about the topic you jump right into grand inquisitor mode. Thanks for proving my point. We don't need people like this lording over the whole fucking forum on a whim.
And rather than be on the losing end of the argument, you resort to blaming me for presenting facts and start playing the victim. Let's face it, when someone disagrees with you, you go on the attack. This is why I had to block your PMs, because you wanted to keep arguing with me about something I don't even recall, and after that you left the feedback I quoted--which was clearly the kind of personal attack that you're criticizing DT members of engaging in. Your own words back up my claims, and if anyone reading this wants further proof they ought to check out the link in my previous post. Do you think the DT list would be better with you on it? Anyone without a reputation is simply dismissed as a scammer and anyone with a reputation has something you can leverage over them to force compliance.
<snip>
Furthermore it ends up being little more than noise actual larger frauds can hide behind in the chaos of all the conflict.
Neither of these statements are true. There are plenty of members who've earned positive reputations starting from having no rep in the time I've been here. Jet Cash, Coolcryptovator, marlboroza, Hhampuz, ICOEthics, xtraelv, coinlocket$, and Lafu are among the new batch of DT1 members and they all registered after me. None of these members were dismissed as scammers. What I see is members like them tagging actual scammers. As to the second part, what larger frauds have been hidden behind "the chaos of all the conflict"? Seems to me that DT has done a pretty decent job tagging the scammers who need tagging. On our own time, without pay, and with much criticism I might add. Actually the way I see it I honored my principles and only left you a neutral rating, for much of the same behavior you are demonstrating right now I might add. How many negative ratings do you shotgun out in a day? I am sure each of them was dutifully researched first right? "None of these members were dismissed as scammers." What are you even arguing? Because some people are not scammers no people gaining reputation this way are scammers? That makes sense how? "What I see is members like them tagging actual scammers." What you see is subjective. If they are such scammers you shouldn't have much trouble documenting evidence of a crime, violation of a contractual agreement, or violation of a law. Anything else just allows for arbitrary power tripping which you and others have just demonstrated you are quite fond of. |
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Also there's the good old fashioned peacable protest. as they say, if police were not afraid of simple first amendment demonstrations, they would not react so hysterically to them on so many occasions.
Any time you have numbers, the police tend to be a little more polite. Especially in an open carry state when you are exercising your rights... I wonder why that is? |
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<snip>
I did go back and find the reason you were booted from DT back in 2014, and it's interesting reading for anyone who might want to compare that whole drama to the argument you're making about DT members leaving arbitrary feedbacks (which are nothing of the kind, BTW). And speaking of personal attacks and hostility, this is the neutral feedback you left for me on 3/6/2016: Just because you can't argue your points without personally attacking me is not my fault. You tell yourself whatever you like and block my messages. It doesn't change the fact that you are just a child throwing a fit because I hurt your frail little feelings by pointing out the flaws in your arguments. Of course if you simply just debated the subject none of this would be an issue now would it?
P.S. if I was threatening you, you would know it. If this isn't being completely hypocritical, I don't know what is. Again, rather than even attempt to engage in a discussion about the topic you jump right into grand inquisitor mode. Thanks for proving my point. We don't need people like this lording over the whole fucking forum on a whim. |
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If the democrats give in then to be honest they should all be taken out back and put to pasture! Better invest in some land now... I hear farmland in Canada is cheap. It has been non-stop talk from Democrats about Russia this, impeachment that, it is getting to the point where their word doesn't mean shit, even to Democrats. They have already lost, you just haven't figured it out yet. |
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(I see it's totally demotivating from newbies point of view). We should better work on helping people to adapt to this crypto community rather than trying to harass or frighting them about the rules as soon as they post something.
May I ask what you're referring to here? What are newbies getting harassed for doing? Hopefully you realize that a lot of the newcomers to this forum are only here to make money from bounties and sig campaigns, and judging by the amount of ban appeals in Meta they don't seem to be reading the rules before they break them. If we want to have a forum that isn't clogged by nonsense posts, members like the aforementioned ones shouldn't be welcomed with open arms, because they're the ones responsible for how bad bitcointalk has gotten in terms of readability. And that small "group" on DT that people keep referring to tend to be members fighting against the useless spammers, account farmers, account sellers, and assorted scammers. They've also left a lot of accurate feedback in that fight, which IMO is a good use of DT "power". It’s embarassing.
It's embarrassing for you because you got knocked off DT. I don't think the majority of bitcointalk members share your opinion that the current DT1 list is some sort of terrible injustice. In any case, I never lobbied to be on DT2, much less DT1. Lauda wasn't even on DT anymore when he/she was added to the DT1 list. It was Theymos's algorithm which was responsible for all of these changes happening, not some conspiratorial power grab by a select group of members. Again note the regular use of personal attacks and hostility from the types of people who fancy themselves as forum police. They only know how to speak the language of threats, accusations, mobbing and inquisition. A lot more people share that opinion than you think, they just don't care to get wrapped up in all the harassment that follows bringing this information to light. Anyone without a reputation is simply dismissed as a scammer and anyone with a reputation has something you can leverage over them to force compliance. There is no reason you and others still can't continue doing what you are doing to help the forum just because you won't be able to leave negative ratings like handing out candy. None of the things you listed require this in order to be done. Furthermore it ends up being little more than noise actual larger frauds can hide behind in the chaos of all the conflict. You just will not be able to lord arbitrary negative ratings over people in order to force compliance with every pet issue you have. The constant refrain from the wanna be forum cops is the sky will fall. It is getting old. You won't restrain yourselves so some restraint should be imposed upon you. |
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Imagine if Alexandria Ocasio Cortez woke up tomorrow, called herself president and was recognized as the true president by other countries. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCJLL6SHst8&feature=youtu.beHere is a detailed analysis of what has happened in Venezuela. Its important to understand the history of Venezuela, US-backed coups, and the dishonesty in the way the mainstream media reports these situations. Interesting... so what your saying is corrupt people within the US government put Socialists in power as controlled opposition in order to collapse and control nations? |
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I dont see it as a Repub or Dem fault....
Goodbye, the party of Lincoln. You let one guy wreck your shit . Trump accomplished what Democrats have been trying to do for the last 50 years. Start off with some equivocation to absolve your own party of guilt and change the subject, then contradict yourself and shift to the shit slinging to your opponent. Cute. |
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