When you make all-encompassing statements like "your seriously going to sit here and try and say that GPU mining is more profitable than FPGA," then I'll take it literally. If you preface your statement with "Unless your electricity is free, blah blah blah," then I probably wouldn't bug you.
Also, have you done a recent analysis on how long it takes for an FPGA to out-profit a GPU setup at different electric rates? I doubt it is just at $0.00/kwh where it would make more sense to buy GPU's instead of FPGA's...
damn it I knew you were going to get me to answer one more time, I am really not interested in nit picking semantics but... Your forgetting the fact that blocks will be halved to 25 BTC per block by the end of the year in that case free electricity WILL be the only way GPU mining would be profitable and you know as well as I do that most serious miners have either already moved past GPU or are in the process of doing so, GPU mining had its run and I am very happy I was able to make some good money off of it, I started mining when coins were trading for 80 cents a piece and the difficulty was incredibly lower than it is today (I was getting 8 coins a day with a single 5870) but those days are over and never coming back ... Ive been there and done that, I sold my GPU farm two months ago and haven't looked back - Ive got over 8ghash of FPGA and building and let me tell you what, when my wife opens the electric bill each month and sees $200.00 instead of $600.00 - its priceless  Now you gentleman have a good evening, it was nice chatting with you but Ive got to go - my wife has a nice Delmonico steak on the grill and a cold beer waiting for me in the fridge |
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cablepair, it shouldn't matter to you who gets ripped off because they bought an ASIC and who doesn't. If you don't like ASICs, then don't buy them. But don't complain because other people who might buy them might get ripped off. It is certainly up to each individual as to whether they want to take the risk and buy it or not.
FWIW, my BFL FPGA's have already paid themselves off, so I won't have to worry about any ASIC payback period whatsoever - no matter how much or how little the payback is, it's still free money.
SgtSpike, I have always respected you but you have totally and completely missed my point here. Well, I appreciate that, and I will agree that I have missed your point if what I said didn't relate. All I have heard from you is that ASIC miners have the potential to not pay themselves back within a reasonable time period. Ok, I will agree that there is a risk of that happening. But I still say, so what? Let each person make his own decision as to whether he wants to risk being an early adopter of ASIC technology or a later adopter. FWIW, my BFL FPGA's have already paid themselves off, so I won't have to worry about any ASIC payback period whatsoever - no matter how much or how little the payback is, it's still free money.
Lolwhat? Actually, I take that back. They've ALMOST paid themselves off. They will be paid off within a month. Bought 10, sold 6 to pay for 9, and the 10th is still being paid off through mining. So you sold 6 for 50% more price, than new ones?  Pretty close, yeah. it really has nothing to do at all with payback period etc I dont give a rats ass about any of that my reference to price has to do with the security of the Bitcoin network and the potentials for abuse of the Bitcoin network based on the price comparison to build an asic and the prices that they will be sold at I was also just correcting certain people who actually think asic mining manufacturers are going to be good guys and sell us these devices dirt cheap so everyone can have them and we can have a happy safe secure and distributed network that in a nutshell was the motivation behind why I was talking about price I thank you for your conversation Mr. Spike, your level of maturity here was well received and appreciated in comparison to some individuals who I will not mention, and with that I bid you a good day as I have a busy evening ahead of me processing fpga orders and fielding emails. take care! |
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YES WHEN ELECTRICITY IS FREE i understand that i mean for 99% OF EVERYONE ELSE you guys forget I mined with GPUs for over a year, I had a 10 ghash mining farm ive bought sold traded and mined on every radeon hd gpu there is want to see pics? http://btcwebhost.com/images/rig/WHY DO THEY LOVE TO ARGUE WITH ME SO MUCH??? I knew I should of helped that old lady cross the street today - damnit karma ..... with that I bid you a good day as I have a busy evening ahead of me processing fpga orders and fielding emails. take care! |
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your seriously going to sit here and try and say that GPU mining is more profitable than FPGA
where have you been for the last six months? in a solar powered windmill with no internet access?
I cant waste my mental energy any longer on people who have no idea what they are talking about
please please someone correct this boy
dont worry guys I will give you another good reason to argue with me soon
but I need a break from this one....
this is getting ridiculous
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cablepair, it shouldn't matter to you who gets ripped off because they bought an ASIC and who doesn't. If you don't like ASICs, then don't buy them. But don't complain because other people who might buy them might get ripped off. It is certainly up to each individual as to whether they want to take the risk and buy it or not.
FWIW, my BFL FPGA's have already paid themselves off, so I won't have to worry about any ASIC payback period whatsoever - no matter how much or how little the payback is, it's still free money.
SgtSpike, I have always respected you but you have totally and completely missed my point here. |
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I'm just going to say one thing here and I promise I will not say another word.
Yes ASIC devices should be cheap. They should be very very cheap like $5 to buy one retail.
But WHO IS GOING TO SELL THEM CHEAP?
NOBODY!!!
Butterwho says they will take 100% trade in value when you trade up to ASIC
Thats $600+ per single!!!
Now if Butterwho is going to take 100% Trade in value do you honestly think they are going to be selling them cheap? They are going to be sweet and kind and do what's right putting cheap devices into the hands of the little guys? its a fallacy and I cant believe how many people actually believe that.
If they are willing to give you your $600 back on that single you waited 5 years to get how freaking much do you think the retail is going to be on that ASIC unit?
GREED will drive ASIC - GREED will Centralize.
I'll take my comments off the air.
Thank you
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When they come, I'll be ready I hear their voices inside The stars in the heavens are moving Soon they will align Gavin, god of Bitcoin Let me die with a FPGA in my hand Raise your hands, GPUs in the wind Brothers of Bitcoin together again With blood in our voices we ride We'll fight till we win or we'll fight until we die  |
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LMAO  watching Cablepair guy fight and cling for the last few days of his business is so entertaining. HAHA! Your FPGA days are over son ! Your such a clown you have no idea what your talking about ASICS arent even out yet. no one can dispute FPGA is #1 right now, the debate is what will happen when ASICS DO come out. Myself and the other FPGA manufacturers are enjoying sales in the many tens of thousands, you really need to get a clue your just making yourself look foolish at this point. Yes son, many tens of thousands, we believe you Not that I have to prove anything to you or that tens of thousands of dollars is really that much money (what are you 13 or something?) To date we have sold almost 50 ModMiner Quads, I encourage you to please do the math. if you dont believe me just ask around there are many people on this forum who have purchased 5 or 10 units in one shot. im ignoring you now. |
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To everyone else I respect your opinion a great deal, and to be honest I hope ASIC comes to the Bitcoin world in the spirit of helping the network and not hurting it, its when people like Vladimir come on giving warnings, thats when I get fired up.
Believe it or not I care first and foremost about the Bitcoin network and if you look at the things I have done for the Bitcoin world over the last year + you cannot die my love and passion for Bitcoin and the Bitcoin community.
I am passionate about fighting for Bitcoin and if I offended anyone I am sorry, ASIC has the potential to be very good for Bitcoin but the potential is greater for it to be very very bad for Bitcoin
I have outlined these things in other threads so I am not going to beat a dead horse here, I just hope everyone really does a lot of research and looks at the motives of the people involved before they make a decision on where they stand and just please before you completely embrace this thing without caution take a look at the potential for abuse.
for me its back to work
Have a nice day Gentleman its been nice debating with you.
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To everyone else I respect your opinion a great deal, and to be honest I hope ASIC comes to the Bitcoin world in the spirit of helping the network and not hurting it, its when people like Vladimir come on giving warnings, thats when I get fired up.
Believe it or not I care first and foremost about the Bitcoin network and if you look at the things I have done for the Bitcoin world over the last year + you cannot die my love and passion for Bitcoin and the Bitcoin community.
I am passionate about fighting for Bitcoin and if I offended anyone I am sorry, ASIC has the potential to be very good for Bitcoin but the potential is greater for it to be very very bad for Bitcoin
I have outlined these things in other threads so I am not going to beat a dead horse here, I just hope everyone really does a lot of research and looks at the motives of the people involved before they make a decision on where they stand and just please before you completely embrace this thing without caution take a look at the potential for abuse.
for me its back to work
Have a nice day Gentleman its been nice debating with you.
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LMAO watching Cablepair guy fight and cling for the last few days of his business is so entertaining. HAHA! Your FPGA days are over son ! Your such a clown you have no idea what your talking about ASICS arent even out yet. no one can dispute FPGA is #1 right now, the debate is what will happen when ASICS DO come out. Myself and the other FPGA manufacturers are enjoying sales in the many tens of thousands, you really need to get a clue your just making yourself look foolish at this point. |
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LOL caplepair, the devs aren't going to change the algo no matter how much you wish it to be true. This. And nor should they. I mean if we are going to change algorithms why not changing it back to something which is prohibitive on FPGA also. Oh wait you wan't FPGA just not ASICs. ASIC's cant adapt! Once you make that chip, you cant change it man! One change the Bitcoin code and all current ASICs are useless and cannot be fixed, end of story FPGA's and GPU's could easily adapt to the change with a software upgrade do your homework before you come at me jack |
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LOL caplepair, the devs aren't going to change the algo no matter how much you wish it to be true. Crazyates, BFL has already stated that they plan to release at least one ASIC product (and potentially 2) that are well under $5,000 and "affordable for the average person". Not to mention, since 1 GH/s only costs $1 to produce, according to some folks in this thread, those prices should drop even further eventually. When an actual ASIC product comes to market come see me, otherwise leave me alone because I am real tired of band wagon jumpers talking about things they know nothing about just so they can feel like they look smart.
No one asked you to post in this thread. Just sayin'. EDIT: QFT Heres a quantifiable BET! I bet that the next involving me and this thread will be by someone who knows absolutely nothing about ASICS or FPGAS and will probably never even own one. I own 4 FPGA's. What did I win? SPIKE: Your telling me that if some rich asshole spends his trust fund to make a custom asic chip and has them mass produced to the tune of 51% of the network all for himself you are telling me the Devs wont change the code to rule out ASIC? they will just let one person take over the whole network? If you believe that, then you should quit Bitcoin right now. THATS THE DANGER OF ASIC The right person could have them MASSED PRODUCED for pennies on the dollar and I know no one asked me to post in this thread I was referring to the constant quotes and challenges from people who dont know what the hell they are talking about oh and your prize? Its a big sloppy kiss, pucker up butter cup  |
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Make all the predictions you want but the fact of the matter is ASIC is not coming any time soon. if you want to mine and be profitable right now, buy FPGA. The majority of miners see that fact and they are acting accordingly, myself and all the other FPGA manufacturers are shipping them out as fast as we can buy into this fairy tale of ASIC all you want, I am sick of arguing about speculation. and thats ALL THERE IS SPECULATION. FPGA Manufacturers and Miners are currently making money and we will continue to do so. When an actual ASIC product comes to market come see me, otherwise leave me alone because I am real tired of band wagon jumpers talking about things they know nothing about just so they can feel like they look smart. Heres a quantifiable BET! I bet that the next involving me and this thread will be by someone who knows absolutely nothing about ASICS or FPGAS and will probably never even own one. |
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Why would you bet that? Do you have any idea how badly you will lose?
Also, how do you plan on quantifying it? You can't call all the miners up and say "yo, what are you mining with".
It is my opinion that FPGA will be #1 and ASIC is not and I am willing to bet on it. However you are right its impossible to quantify in those terms can anyone think of a way we can quantify the bet? |
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It is easy to understand but people have vested interests. Hell i got 15GH/s of GPUs anyone think I want to see ASICs tomorrow? It is inevitable. Someone will build ASICs. It will either be built and sold to miners to protect Bitcoin or it will be built an used covertly to destroy Bitcoin. Either way it will be built.
FPGA guys should indeed be scared. Should have headed my early warnings to be less scared now. The key mistake they made is hoping that as it was with CPU's and GPU's, FPGA generation would last about 18 month and they will have time to pay off capex. Surprise, surprise, ASIC's are coming online sooner than you think and surely sooner than 18 month from now. GPU guys probably do not care anymore, they will just milk what they can from those old rusty gpu's. I have always respected you, but do you honestly think if you (or someone like you) uses your wealth to amass a large portion of network power with ASICS that the Bitcoin devs will not stop you with a change to the code? You might have a scary name Vladmir but no one is scared, not one bit. The Bitcoin developers are not going to let ASICs centralize mining, and FPGA will remain on top for a long time to come. The only reason for this post of yours is to spread propaganda and misinformation to support your own cause. I will personally bet 100 Bitcoins that FPGAs miners will make up the majority of the Bitcoin network hashing power 1 year from now. Take me up on that bet Vladimir? |
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LOL @ Cablepair guy, he is selling outdated and overpriced FPGA systems, ASIC will kick him out, ofcouse he is gonna hate it LMAO! laugh your ass off all you want you obviously have no idea what your talking about outdated? we use the same Spartan6LX150 FPGA chip that all the other manufacturers are , also our unit is the cheapest quad unit currently available and is twice as efficient as the BFL single we are selling units every single day in big numbers Oh and by the way just beacause you can't afford it, does not mean its over priced so before you talk shit - do your research. |
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It is unbelievable that a community of relatively intelligent people cannot see how ASIC will ruin mining profitability for everyone and only make the manufacturers rich.
There is no financial model that can make these work due to their incredibly low marginal operation cost and ridiculously high hashrate.
The ASIC manufacturers would have to control the rate at which these are sold to stand any chance of miners getting a return on their investment and no business is going to do this after spending such a huge initial investment. Especially since after they sell the first several units at high prices, making more is so cheap they can just start unloading them at rock bottom prices.
The early ASIC buyers will never turn them off due to their low operation cost even though they stand ZERO chance of recouping their investment.
This is just standard economics and common sense.
I hope the bitcoin DEVS change the protocol to make ASICS obsolete. It will save the irrational potential buyers from themselves and the rest of us along with it.
+1 |
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