ECB is printing €60 billion per month, so it is a pocket change
Wrong. The ECB is printing €60 billion per year, and not per month. And only a small part of this is printed in Germany. Check this: https://www.ecb.europa.eu/stats/euro/circulation/html/index.en.htmlFor the month of May 2015, the ECB printed banknotes worth €5,474,705,800. Divided in to: €5 - 7,570,130 notes worth €37,850,650 €10 - 15,418,060 notes worth €154,180,560 €20 - 14,236,370 notes worth €284,727,440 €50 - 71,172,090 notes worth €3,558,604,250 €100-12,410,700 notes worth €1,241,069,600 €200-117,130 notes worth €23,426,800 €500-349,690 notes worth €174,846,500 Well, literally speaking, this is correct. But what about the "bonds" and "derivatives" that's being printed without any consent of the governments in the EU? I'm talking about the "money out of thin air" that we're supposed (as people) to pay in order to "bail out" the banks. All in all and to give a perspective here the total GDP of the WORLD is about 74 Trillion dollars while the total debt is 200 Trillion. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_world_product) Yeah, everything is fine here, move along... |
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I heard about that many people have changed their stance from no to yes since bank started to limit withdraw. It seems banks still have the control, unless people's knowledge about money improves, they will still be the slave of bankers for a foreseeable future
That would be NOT true. On the contrary, contrarian voices from the right wing have joined forces with the leftists. It's the reverse psychology of the masses paradigm. You just have to piss some people off in order to achieve the contrary of what you're presenting. Of course, I cannot exclude the possibility the mass media introduced such a policy pro-"Yes" in order for the people go for "No" and the EU has a nice reasoning towards kicking Greece out...  |
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please look at the german budget and tell me if there is deficit or surplus and since when. you could also add the rating of german solvency.
germany could easily take 20 billion in debt every year for the next 5 years.
my point still stands, a loss off 90 billion in greece would not damage germany on a important scale.
Even though I agree with you (ie: check FED's "We'll print more" policy) they simply won't do it. Austerity is the only tactics they know. Greece is simply the canary in the coalmine. The first one to go - it's a rough paradigm for the others that will eventually follow. On the other hand, it's not really a matter of politics, rather than a regional IQ test. I fail to see why a bright idea of a solid global economy should be implemented if we - as people - fail to help each other in order to build one... |
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I agree. Do you *really* see this happening though? Is there a way? I think that if ANYONE deploys ANY tactics for an "exit" whether it's a GR-or BR or AU, the ship will have a breach and one by one countries will begin to step out. Nothing to worry about though. Germany will still be there...  If many countries desire leaving the Eurozone, then why should one try to stop them ? First of, there's no official directive for a country to leave the Eurozone. The initial treaty failed to introduce such an "option". I believe you're smart enough to understand why... Second: Having another currency and still being into the Eurozone? Hmm... let me think. No I cannot think of any other country doing so... Oh wait! England! Third: Do you really think that mr. Juncker is telling the truth and Yanis doesn't? Why wouldn't be vice versa? All in all, let me tell you my thesis: Eurozone has been created to advance the civilization to the next level. If the experiment fails because the fat lady is afraid to understand that the GLOBAL economy is failing - and prefers to address it only to a single country, then I'll say it as politely as I can: By all means, let Greece go. Invent a directive that EVERY country in debt, that cannot pay, should be banned. No questions asked. Why should we test if the country's debt is odious? Dump this. Let's get it done and over with. Austerity is better than solidarity and the mass media say the truth! Well... What can I say? Maybe I'm just a stubborn Greek that doesn't buy it. |
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Grexit is coming. EU is ready?
Grexit is ? the exit of greece from europe, it would only be benefical for europe at this point it's not good for europe to continue lending them money that they cannot return better to take them out I agree. Do you *really* see this happening though? Is there a way? I think that if ANYONE deploys ANY tactics for an "exit" whether it's a GR-or BR or AU, the ship will have a breach and one by one countries will begin to step out. Nothing to worry about though. Germany will still be there... |
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Good morning everybody. Here comes an update to The List. Please update to the latest additions. Latest additions to The List as of 2015-07-04:Mistered
Maytag
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According to this article: http://www.enikonomia.gr/timeliness/27275,Baroyfakhs-Exoyme-symfwnia-poy-8a-ypografame-amesa.html mr Varoufakis revealed to the Channel 4's journalist that "Right now we have a proposal that we'd accept right away". And continues: "since we announced the referendum, we've been bombarded with offers that if we had earlier, we'd never go for a referendum". So, it's basically a "means of pressure" in order to achieve a viable deal that won't ruin the country with more austerity measures and deliver the long awaited economic (and thus social) growth. Besides, it's very well known that EVEN A COUNTRY WANTED, they couldn't flee the Eurozone. It's not documented nor allowed by the initial treaty. So, no Grexit. If there's a "Yes" (unlikely) - it would mean more austerity measures, more recession and Greece will eventually be the worst place to live in the EU. If there's a "No" Tsipras will have an opportunity to talk on a fresh basis and get a better deal (backed up by the voters). What's significant though is the fact that many "everyday" people ask about bitcoin here. How they can buy it - how to use it, etc. People start to "get" it. That's the best part of this crisis. |
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Hi Macsga,
I think the only thing the general population would use would be the Euro or the old Drachma. I reckon
the crypto currencies are a bit tricky for most people to follow yet. In Ireland most commercial property
has lost 90% of it's value, the banks rarely loan money now and half the people here owe much more than
they own. I know you guys are having it a lot harder ok. Hopefully things will get better soon. I guess your
idea might work if someone promoted a such a system locally in Greece with Bitcoin.
Best
Greg
I beg to differ; the reason is that for the last 5 days everybody knows that they can't go on living by withdrawing 60eur per day. Most of us are using our debit/credit cards to fill up our gas tanks, buy food from the supermarkets and do basic - everyday stuff. In this case the tech-savvy ones present no significant difference with the technophobic ones. Also there's a huge hype about POS systems like this. They're cheap, easy to use and deliver the "most wanted" material-less liquidity. What I thought was different though; I faced myself many times throughout this crisis in Greece the fact that I don't know if the X shop has a POS system for my card. With your app this should be a + point and most possibly could make a nice hype if you'd implemented it. Imagine it like a "social network of payments" via a GPS enabled grid to know who's around and what is offering. Cheers. |
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Is this what I think it is? A personal taxi app with GCN payments? Damn... that looks really cool! Hi Macsga, No, there are no GCoin payments here for the moment. This is only a meeting place. Best Greg Facing the lack of money here in Greece, this comes to my head as a bright idea. This app could very well work out as a P2P payment among people who want to use it for ie: buying groceries or filling up their car with fuel. The only thing people will have to do is to download the app and everybody knows which shop or who accepts GCN for payments. I don't know if you find this a great idea too, but I think this could be a nice alternative towards missing euros and make the people here in Greece have a viable way of making and receiving payments "off grid" and by not having to stand in line at the banks trying to withdraw 60eur per day. Think about it. This is needed right now! |
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Is this what I think it is? A personal taxi app with GCN payments? Damn... that looks really cool! |
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I -just- cannot avoid the hefty thought and thus -consequently- the correlation: 650K+200K=850K missing...  |
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That would be "or".  With the banks closed, there are very few ways to move cash around and cooperate with an exchange in order to purchase BTC. Localbitcoins works but because of the demand the prices are significantly higher (rates are up to 300eur per piece). Unfortunately, the ways to move cash out of the country are only a couple at the moment, even though I expect the opposite will be needed within a short time period. As they say here "No matter how much [money], they are always over"... 300€ per btc local/person? Those with money on exchanges are doing a killing right now! Maybe I will decide to go on holidays to Greece and took few btc with... free holidays  Btw. Tourists can take money out? Tourists have unlimited money supply, cause "Tourism=Profit". I believe they can withdraw virtually any amount from their credit cards when they're in Greece. The problem is that the domestic funds are somewhat "locked" from moving outside of the country. Which -you know- it's a problem when you want to buy BTCs... |
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PS: Klee is a fellow Greek and I like his way of thinking.
I tried the PnF crap and managed to lose $70,000+ in 2012 doubling down after getting stopped out on options. After that I started reading Armstrong and have lost any money on any investment since. kLee was profiting quite well from following my timing calls on the Bitcoin price moves and now he decides to delete my posts that disagree with him. I guess he has to learn the hard way, such as when most of his coins got stolen for failing to do basic wallet security. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make a stubborn Greek drink. Hahahaha... true! |
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It's all over the news; it seems no one is untouched by the charm of Bitcoin... Seriously now, I first thought it was a "set up" story by the US Gov't. It seems to be backed up by serious data & evidence though. I wonder if SR has others in the bin apart from the known ones... |
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I disagree. Order DOESN'T exists ONLY at higher levels of conceptualization. There's a mathematical proof for this.
I suspect the disagreement is only in definitions of words. I am trying to articulate that order is relative to perspective. So if you want to find order, you need a conceptualization (a.k.a. perspective) that enables to you recognize that order. I refer to that process as higher level, but that doesn't mean higher as in macroscopic versus quantum. It means higher in the sense of applying some rules on the interpretation other than the default one that rendered only noise. Hey WTF are you praising PnF TA nonsense? Surely you know that TA does not have anything better than a 50/50 perspective on future prices moves, and worse than that if you include human emotion since one mathematical truth (of the wealth effect, i.e. mcap != capital invested) is the majority always has to lose more in the markets than the minority. Hello and welcome. Indeed it's often a compulsion of mine to disagree in order to create a fruitful discussion (how on earth we'd have a discussion if we'd agree on everything?). As you may understand the matter we're talking about is far more complex than a "simplified physics" chat. So, yes; I agree with the first paragraph of yours in full detail. My thesis would've been the following though and I will try not to over-complex it: 1. Every data represents a x,y,t point within a diagram. Thus it will perfectly modelize a 3D diagram (2D representation by t=z). 2. After the collection of a specific amount of data (ie: enough to make a "chaos") you can recognize a pattern that represents a stokes diagram of a 3D differential equation. 3. The pattern represents the entropic trajectory of the chaos that tends to form a Lorentz Tensor [or more]. 4. The pluralism of Tensors in question depends of the respective Chaos(es) that each and everyone incorporates or vice versa. If you check the diagram from DJ that Armstrong has on his website there's a strong possibility you get EXACTLY what I'm talking about. 5. Reverse engineering the equation. Well. That's easy... as long as you know EXACTLY the deterministic chaos initial conditions (aka:Zero point). From all the above, step 5 requires A LOT of discussion, mainly on the fact that the "initial conditions" are pretty subjective to significant moves (ie:a whale sale / buy). Your turn  PS: Klee is a fellow Greek and I like his way of thinking. Besides, I never turn down anything without first giving it a good chance testing it. That's the way I function. |
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Yes, he wrote there is a big increase of Greece users ( https://twitter.com/nejc_kodric). Interesting... Macsga, there sure is a business opportunity for you or? That would be "or". With the banks closed, there are very few ways to move cash around and cooperate with an exchange in order to purchase BTC. Localbitcoins works but because of the demand the prices are significantly higher (rates are up to 300eur per piece). Unfortunately, the ways to move cash out of the country are only a couple at the moment, even though I expect the opposite will be needed within a short time period. As they say here "No matter how much [money], they are always over"... |
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Cleaned up the thread - apologies to macsga, Natalia_AnatolioPAMM and Wexlike..
It's alright, I'll be watching this space even though I don't believe in TA predictions. PnF looks promising though. One question: care about doing the same for a linked-alt? (ie: LTC). It would be nice to compare results. Cheers. |
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According to this article: http://www.lifo.gr/now/digital-life/69865 it seems like the CEO of Bitstamp reported about 79% rise from Greek customers. Talking with a friend today, the main concern is the issuing of IOUs and people try to convert to "assets" instead. There are companies that are willingful to take your euros out of Greece (and put them in an exchange account for you) in order to purchase BTCs from known exchanges. Never expected it so soon, but Bitcoin seems to gain some *REAL* traction here in Greece. |
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