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561  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 21, 2014, 02:50:32 PM
Price goes from $10-$1000 in a year, drops from $1000-$300 in about the same time.

So stable.  Roll Eyes

There is a difference between the folks who are trying to understand and those who willfully misunderstand.  
There are some folks who are just trying to wrap their heads around all this stuff for the first time and are confused by the conflation of the different merits of:
1) price stability
2) existential stability (or "resilience" if you prefer)

As to the first.
Bitcoin price stability is highly volatile.  If this were not true, it would still be 10 to a penny, or maybe up to 5 by now?  But no its more than 5 orders of magnitude more than that and still going strong.  Just ask Microsoft.

As to the second.
We are looking at decades ahead, and how to get there without requiring a military or regional regime (which are quite expensive things to maintain) to prop up a currency just so we can do our every day lives.  Let the government do the things that it is good at, and not managing a currency, which it isn't good at.
562  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 21, 2014, 02:38:59 PM
The buying power of the USD has remained within 10%, educate yourself.
The buying power of BTC has dropped by 65% in the last year alone.
And that's vis-a-vis teh USD, so, according to you, likely much more.



Straw man much?

I told you what I meant by 10%.  You chose to ignore that.  Grasping at straws much?
Nope, I up'd your 10% and gave you 0%
The USD is perfectly stable when measured in USD over all arbitrary time-frames.
Your tautology is just fine.

We can pick arbitrary exchange pairs and timeframes until your cartoon animals fade to black.  Bitcoin will still be around long after you waste your time trying to convince people of anything.
563  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 21, 2014, 02:30:58 PM
The buying power of the USD has remained within 10%, educate yourself.
The buying power of BTC has dropped by 65% in the last year alone.
And that's vis-a-vis teh USD, so, according to you, likely much more.



Straw man much?
564  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 21, 2014, 02:29:16 PM
The Argentine Peso was a case-study justification for Bitcoin, until Bitcoin underperformed even it Roll Eyes
If we pick an arbitrary time-frame where that is true, sure.  Can say the opposite also.

Discussing existential stability, we still have to wait a while in order to see which one is here in the end.

>existential stability

What does that mean?  Another meaningless phrase coined by coiners?
You could probably figure it out from the rest of the sentence, but there is a hint for those without English language skills or dictionaries:  The first part of the word sounds like "exist".
565  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 21, 2014, 02:25:03 PM
Bitcoin relies on math.  So do banks.  So do random number generators.  So do shitcoins.
If you seriously need examples of things more stable than Bitcoin, there's the dollar.  And the peso, for that matter Roll Eyes

The difference being that each of the national fiats rely on a particular regional taxation and military regime and those people pulling its strings to keep those strings untangled, unbroken, and well sorted.
Lol, the dollar, which is
There is nothing more unstable than people.  You are evidence enough of that.

Over the lifespan of Bitcoin, its value has increased by 999999999%, and over the last year has tanked by ~65%.
In the same timespan, the USD has remained within 10%.
Just stop, brah.
Why, you can't handle the truth?

The USD hasn't remained within 10% of anything except the USD, which is all that it is redeemable for anyhow.
566  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 21, 2014, 02:22:34 PM
The Argentine Peso was a case-study justification for Bitcoin, until Bitcoin underperformed even it Roll Eyes
If we pick an arbitrary time-frame where that is true, sure.  Can say the opposite also.

Discussing existential stability, we still have to wait a while in order to see which one is here in the end.
567  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 21, 2014, 02:19:09 PM
On a positive note: good news about your man Von Nothaus. That was a long time coming

Thanks for this. Smiley  Yes, good, not great, but certainly good.  The judge figured out a way to "split the baby" and not do too much evil.
It was a Record Setting long time coming, longest time between conviction and sentencing in the court's history.
568  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 21, 2014, 02:15:40 PM
Bitcoin relies on math.  So do banks.  So do random number generators.  So do shitcoins.
If you seriously need examples of things more stable than Bitcoin, there's the dollar.  And the peso, for that matter Roll Eyes

The difference being that each of the national fiats rely on a particular regional taxation and military regime and those people pulling its strings to keep those strings untangled, unbroken, and well sorted.

There is nothing more unstable than people.  You are evidence enough of that.
569  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 21, 2014, 02:05:31 PM
If bitcoin was really about solving poor people problems, then it should have been distributed for free with all of them. But we all know that kind of approach would have never worked out.

Instead it will be sold to them at high prices, so all people who invested before (mostly from rich countries) can make lot of profit.

And don't get me wrong, early adopters deserve all that profit. But don't come to sell that lie about poor people, because poors will be the last ones to benefit.

Perhaps you are not understanding the effects of inflation on the poor?  ...

Perhaps you don't understand that the poor, almost by definition, have no savings, and live hand to mouth.
Explain how the depreciation of wealth stored as money affects the poor again?

You are missing it entirely again little lamby.
The SoV isn't so much the feature that benefits here, so much as the existential stability of the money and not having the Argentine Peso yanked out from under them.

Wait, "existential stability" of Bitcoin, the most unstable thing calling itself a "currency" in the history of the world?! Cheesy



You have something more stable than math?

What, gold?
570  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 21, 2014, 02:04:07 PM
all that talk about mass adoption and price skyrocketing, especially in 3rd world countries.  

did any of you consider scenario where mass adoption leads to massive price decrease?

the more people use it to transfer value (transfer as opposed to hodl) less value it has.

Perhaps you can talk us through the precise mechanism whereby millions of people buy in to bitcoin but the price falls.

Quantity theory of money, equation of exchange, velocity increasing, ceteris parabis.

Your analysis shows how price rises with adoption not falls.
You do understand what the "Quantity theory of money" applies to don't you?
Try again?

(Or are you expecting a sudden "quantitative contraction" of all fiat?)

I'm not the person with the "analysis", read what you're replying to.

What I'm saying is exactly correct and unambiguous, providing supporting information to explain the theoretical basis for the claim made by the original person quoted.

Then you do understand.  Appreciate the clarification.
As to unambiguous, you offered only bullet points without stating your conclusion or position.
571  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 21, 2014, 01:57:32 PM
If bitcoin was really about solving poor people problems, then it should have been distributed for free with all of them. But we all know that kind of approach would have never worked out.

Instead it will be sold to them at high prices, so all people who invested before (mostly from rich countries) can make lot of profit.

And don't get me wrong, early adopters deserve all that profit. But don't come to sell that lie about poor people, because poors will be the last ones to benefit.

Perhaps you are not understanding the effects of inflation on the poor?  ...

Perhaps you don't understand that the poor, almost by definition, have no savings, and live hand to mouth.
Explain how the depreciation of wealth stored as money affects the poor again?

You are missing it entirely again little lamby.
The SoV isn't so much the feature that benefits here, so much as the existential stability of the money and not having the Argentine Peso yanked out from under them.
572  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 21, 2014, 01:52:45 PM
all that talk about mass adoption and price skyrocketing, especially in 3rd world countries.  

did any of you consider scenario where mass adoption leads to massive price decrease?

the more people use it to transfer value (transfer as opposed to hodl) less value it has.

Perhaps you can talk us through the precise mechanism whereby millions of people buy in to bitcoin but the price falls.

Quantity theory of money, equation of exchange, velocity increasing, ceteris parabis.

Your analysis shows how price rises with adoption not falls.
You do understand what the "Quantity theory of money" applies to don't you?
Try again?

(Or are you expecting a sudden "quantitative contraction" of all fiat?)
573  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 21, 2014, 01:48:47 PM
...
This is where I am working to change this. I'm not giving bitcoins to the poor. I'm teaching them how to secure Bitcoins.

And I'm teaching them how to secure their mansions & yachts.  

Must be a busy time for you teaching "the poor" how to secure their mansions and yachts?
574  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 21, 2014, 01:47:55 PM
If bitcoin was really about solving poor people problems, then it should have been distributed for free with all of them. But we all know that kind of approach would have never worked out.

Instead it will be sold to them at high prices, so all people who invested before (mostly from rich countries) can make lot of profit.

And don't get me wrong, early adopters deserve all that profit. But don't come to sell that lie about poor people, because poors will be the last ones to benefit.

Perhaps you are not understanding the effects of inflation on the poor?  By poor here, we mean the people that don't own banks and aren't the ones inflating the currency.  

When a national currency fails (as every nation's state's fiat currency eventually does) maybe rich people make or lose some money, but life is about the same.  Just get on a plane and fly somewhere else.  For the rest left behind it is a very big impact, and for the rest of their lives they will not ever forget it.
575  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Liberty Dollar Sentencing scheduled on: December 21, 2014, 01:17:33 PM
I have heard the argument put forth by Funtotry before.
This was supposed to be one reason why Bitcoin was safe as compared to Liberty Dollars.

An earlier FBI press release says this

Following an eight-day trial and less than two hours of deliberation, von NotHaus, the founder and monetary architect of a currency known as the Liberty Dollar, was found guilty by a jury in Statesville, North Carolina, of making coins resembling and similar to United States coins; of issuing, passing, selling, and possessing Liberty Dollar coins; of issuing and passing Liberty Dollar coins intended for use as current money

Von NotHaus designed the Liberty Dollar currency in 1998 and the Liberty coins were marked with the dollar sign ($); the words dollar, USA, Liberty, Trust in God (instead of In God We Trust); and other features associated with legitimate U.S. coinage.


http://www.fbi.gov/charlotte/press-releases/2011/defendant-convicted-of-minting-his-own-currency


This is one reason why (Hopefully) the Government's treatment of Bitcoin should be different. Nobody is going to confuse bitcoins/satoshis with dollars/cents. If the question was over the monopoly of Congress over money, I am sure the government would have taken some action against cryptocurrencies in general. We wouldn't have the IRS clarifying bitcoin's tax status and the feds auctioning bitcoins ever so often.

Nobody confused Liberty Dollars with US Dollars either.

The "$" never appeared on any US dollar prior to its use by the Liberty Dollar (However it WAS used on Mexican Peso).
The FBI press release is pure BS.  These were not the arguments used in deciding the case, nor were they the reasons for the judges decision.

There were no victims of this "fraud" of minting a competing currency.  The government does not have a constitutional monopoly on money creation, cases like this are an attempt to fabricate it where it doesn't exist in the law.

Read the court filing:
http://www.gata.org/files/VonNotHausOrder-Nov-10-2014.pdf

Apparently the prosecution persuaded the court that they'd had trained people to do things like mixing Liberty Dollars into change and dropping it into their hands so they didn't notice, and telling them things like "This is the new $10 silver". The court also decided that making coins while intending them to be used like that counted as counterfeiting as the law defined it.

I can't say whether they really did that or whether the court's reading of the law is right, but if they did it doesn't actually sound like a victimless crime: If I thought I was getting normal US Dollars in change I'd be narked off if I was really getting 10 US Dollars worth of silver which I then have to work out what to do with, and even more so if I was getting what they seem to have been pushing here, which is a coin with less than 10 US Dollars worth of silver in it.

Obviously none of this stuff applies to bitcoin because nobody's pretending bitcoins are dollars, and neither does the other thing they nailed this guy for which was minting metallic coins, which Congress has apparently passed a daft-but-constitutional law against.

The prosecution made the claim, but they weren't able to find anyone of the 250,000 folks that had any who had suffered as a victim of this.

The truth is pretty much the opposite of what the prosecution claimed.  In every speech, in every discussion, in every communication of any kind, he made great efforts to DISTINGUISH the Liberty Dollars from US Coins.  He wouldn't even call them "coins" and if you did, he would yell at you.  The prosecution was totally full of shit.  The jury just swallowed that shit, but the judge could at least see through it.  

Yeah sure, mixing in with your other change and getting a quarter ounce of silver and mistaking it for a quarter dollar would nark you off.... up until the moment you realized that you had a quarter ounce of silver.

No one was pretending that Liberty Dollars were US dollars either. 

In the CFR's document describing how they are going to try to globally regulate Bitcoin using the IMF, they mention the Liberty Dollar precedent.  The tragic guilty ruling that was a horrific miscarriage of justice is still on the books.  That is not such a good thing.  I am happy that Bernard gets some of his life back, and maybe some of the seized gold and silver (one can hope) will be returned.
576  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: the Leave Us the Hell Alone Bill and The new bill, H.R. 5777 on: December 21, 2014, 01:03:28 PM
.gov will tax an activity if they want stifle its development/adoption; subsidize the activity if they want to stimulate or encourage its growth.

It's pretty clear what their position is.

The relationship is more complicated than this.  When something is taxed this also puts the government in the business of that thing, as a partner.  It becomes reliant on the "revenue".  Consider cigarettes and gasoline.  In the production areas they are the most powerful political forces.

Banking companies may be disrupted, so expect places where these have the greatest influence to be the most hostile politically.  NY/Bitlicense/Lawsky should not be a surprise.
577  Other / Off-topic / Re: Do girls use Bitcoin ? on: December 21, 2014, 05:49:02 AM
That doesn't excuse the lack of respect.
We agree.
My point was somewhat different.
Essentially:  If you look in garbage cans, you will probably find garbage.
578  Other / Off-topic / Re: Do girls use Bitcoin ? on: December 21, 2014, 12:49:43 AM
I've only read the last page and I have to say....you guys are asses.


Have same damn respect, women are people too. Not to be objectified by dildo jokes or "no tits" jokes.

Thanks for saying this. I'm getting bored with the same "jokes" over and over and feel like leaving this forum altogether. If it wasn't for the BFL thread I would have left weeks ago.
You're welcome Smiley

The thread is pretty much just for trolling.  Anyone coming to this thread expecting something intelligent with a title like this is very likely going to be disappointed.
579  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Crypto Kingdom - 1991 Retro Virtual World(City) on: December 20, 2014, 12:25:50 PM
The University gladly accepts the generous gift of the strange rocks.

They will for now be stored in the archives, as they are not something of obvious interest to our Military Sciences department, but soon we will have more philosophers and scholars who make be able to make sense of them.
Thank you for this.  We also have some others...  With bugs inside.

They were found in the rubble washings, near the surface in NLQI.
We've been warehousing them.

Some of the ones without the bugs we may use to decorate the Long Gallery sun room in Noble Palace to celebrate a century of peace.  There are crates of this strange soft gold rock, but the geologist assures us that there is not any gold in it.
Still they are pretty with a bit of work.  If any of the nobles would like some crates to use for their own purposes, they may have them also.

580  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Crypto Kingdom - 1991 Retro Virtual World(City) on: December 20, 2014, 11:45:43 AM
In the RAQ we found some rocks with some strange shapes.

The geologist does not think them suitable for building but might be good for the University.

Here is an example:


So as a gift to Chancellor Smooth, please accept these strange rocks?
If you have no use for them, perhaps some museum would like them?
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