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1021  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Marketplace (Altcoins) / Re: 10 lots of 1,000 CK gold each -> 2014-10-30, 19:00 GMT on: October 28, 2014, 05:00:24 AM
Earl Joseph of New Liberty bids His Majesty grant 5000 CKG gold coins for 240000 Moneritos each.
1022  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Marketplace (Altcoins) / Re: Land auction: CryptoKingdom lot 1-C-F1, closes 2014-10-30 19:00 GMT on: October 28, 2014, 01:56:36 AM
Earl Joseph of New Liberty bids 20 million moneritos, may it please HM.
1023  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Marketplace (Altcoins) / Re: 10 lots of 1,000 CK gold each -> 2014-10-30, 19:00 GMT on: October 27, 2014, 11:12:44 PM
4000 @ 21
1024  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Increasing the block size is a good idea; 50%/year is probably too aggressive on: October 27, 2014, 02:49:24 PM
This is the sort of fundamental analysis that would also get us closer to having a client that can tell its user how much TX fee to include in order to expect the transaction to be confirmed in X minutes.
A nice feature to have.
1025  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Crypto Kingdom - 1991 Retro Virtual World(City) on: October 26, 2014, 06:10:01 PM
A comely young man in finely tailored garment and walks into the central square carrying a wooden box that may have once been used to ship the soap that by his scents he has recently been refreshed by, in a fastidious washing.

After setting down the wooden box near the site of the obelisk in central square, he pulls a scroll tube and hand bell from the box, turns the box over and climbs on top of the box.

Ringing the bell loudly, and canting in a high clear voice the young man says:

"Oyez, Oyez, Oyez!  Hear Ye, Hear Ye all!
May it please His Majesty and all who may hear these words.
In celebration of the founding of such great and glorious edifices of our Kings palaces and Cathedral.
Be it known to all that His Lordship NewLiberty hereby does grant
such stone as may be required to pave the Southern roads within our walls.
Connecting each of the 3 southern gates.  So that the path may be clear and clean
for those who will visit our grand cathedral and obelisk and that none may be hindered in their visits to these wonders.

One Hundred and Ninety thousands of NewLiberty's finest stones be committed to this task, and funds for the labors to lay them.
May it please our Lord, and our King, and may the great people of this fine city walk safely along these streets."

1026  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 26, 2014, 04:41:58 PM
-- This is equivalent to saying there is no reason to use Monero in the first place. Everyone there was there because they believed in a pure anonymous coin and the market it served. However now with that possibility achieved via sidechains, there remains no reason to be in Monero any longer (imo).

This is jumping the gun a little, isn't it?
Isn't it a bit like saying:  "Now with the theory of relativity, there is no reason to use gasoline".
Or "because of the theory of quantum cryptography, there remains no reason to be in Bitcoin any longer".
A description of a thing, is quite different from the thing itself.


It was a jump a few months back when it was just an iffy concept - that is a few days ago when 3 of the core devs signed onto blockstream. Now its implementation is all but inevitable (imo). So, no its not much of a jump. It's essentially a recap of the first comment I made in this thread which started people talking about sidechains in the first place.

Still... jumping the gun.
Or jumping the vaporware if you'd rather.
Is there a delivery date with committed features even?
This seems like telling people to sell Quicken because Microsoft announces they are going to make "Microsoft Money".


Also the current beaten state of Monero (€ 2.5 million mktcap) shows that:

- the market never gave any 1%+ chance for Monero achieving anything in the first place;
- anything can make it go up from here, even something totally unrelated to anonymity;
- a very small number of people can keep it in the current value as a community coin, regardless what BTC does.

I can't predict what will happen, but I would counsel people against taking investment advice from someone that confuses an announcement of a theoretical plan with an "achievement".

I'm a fan of sidechains.  I'm also a fan of a ring-signature side chain, and personally advocated this to the monero-dev folks and to the monero economic workgroup.  To be very clear on the matter: Many things that are happening are simply done and not announced ahead of time.  Announcing an idea even with a plan, is often not the best method, if hype isn't followed swiftly by a useful delivery, it is not better than FUD, and generally worse.
1027  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 26, 2014, 03:51:03 PM
-- This is equivalent to saying there is no reason to use Monero in the first place. Everyone there was there because they believed in a pure anonymous coin and the market it served. However now with that possibility achieved via sidechains, there remains no reason to be in Monero any longer (imo).

This is jumping the gun a little, isn't it?
Isn't it a bit like saying:  "Now with the theory of relativity, there is no reason to use gasoline".
Or "because of the theory of quantum cryptography, there remains no reason to be in Bitcoin any longer".
A description of a thing, is quite different from the thing itself.


It was a jump a few months back when it was just an iffy concept - that is a few days ago when 3 of the core devs signed onto blockstream. Now its implementation is all but inevitable (imo). So, no its not much of a jump. It's essentially a recap of the first comment I made in this thread which started people talking about sidechains in the first place.

Still... jumping the gun.
Or jumping the vaporware if you'd rather.
Is there a delivery date with committed features even?
This seems like telling people to sell Quicken because Microsoft announces they are going to make "Microsoft Money".
1028  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Crypto Kingdom - 1991 Retro Virtual World(City) on: October 26, 2014, 03:35:49 PM
I'm interested by the sudden appearance of a wizard amongst us, are you trying to encourage a fantasy theme running through the kingdom?
It isn't fantasy.  This is an actual wizard that has decided to play among us.
1029  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 26, 2014, 03:17:26 PM
-- This is equivalent to saying there is no reason to use Monero in the first place. Everyone there was there because they believed in a pure anonymous coin and the market it served. However now with that possibility achieved via sidechains, there remains no reason to be in Monero any longer (imo).

This is jumping the gun a little, isn't it?
Isn't it a bit like saying:  "Now with the theory of relativity, there is no reason to use gasoline".
Or "because of the theory of quantum cryptography, there remains no reason to be in Bitcoin any longer".
A description of a thing, is quite different from the thing itself.
1030  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Increasing the block size is a good idea; 50%/year is probably too aggressive on: October 26, 2014, 01:28:31 AM
Gavin, if you're still reading in my humble opinion we need a few things to move forward.

You're still the closest thing this community has to Satoshi/leadership so I think impetus comes from you. IMO you should update your Scalability Roadmap to reflect 40% annual increases noting that seems to be able to garner consensus. Maybe a second update includes a step-by-step process to rolling out the update (fork), so people know what to expect. I think starting to talk about things in a matter-of-fact way will engender confidence and expectation of what's to come. Thanks again for your hard work.

For the rest of us I think it's helpful to be supportive, in any way we can, of pushing forward this update. Notice I've updated my signature. If we can explain to those wondering whether it's the best option that it certainly is by implementing something, while covering the most possible bases people may go along.

My sentiments exactly.  I have actually found this whole thread to be quite heartening.

NewLiberty - you have done a good job tirelessly advocating for a certain approach.  It almost seems as if every even-numbered post is yours, and every odd-numbered post is from a different poster who steps up to the plate to explain to you the flaws in your position.  You seem like a perfectionist, which in general isn't a bad thing at all.  But action is needed now, even if we don't have some perfect 'forever' solution. Fortunately we don't need a 100% consensus to move forward, just an undefined super-majority.  I'd guess we have it around the 20MB / 40% concept.

My personal opinion is 20MB /40% is a kick-ass combo.  Between that, the headers-first downloading, the O(1) miner backbone system, and (hopefully) sidechains, we are looking at the most important set of technical improvements since bitcoin started.

There have been no unaddressed flaws yet in what I have advocated, other than the fact that it does not include a concrete proposal for a specific finished algorithm.  Undecided
What I have been advocating is for a flexible solution to be designed so that we won't have to do this again.  It hasn't been accomplished yet.

If folks decide that reaching an average of 1/3 full blocks is a sufficient impetus to implement something without delay, even if that implementation may well have to be adjusted again in the future (one way or the other), and in future years when it may be much harder to put through such a change... then of course the expedient 2nd Gavin solution will be implemented.

If however before the implementation, there is a flexible proposal that doesn't also introduce unmanaged perverse incentives, I suspect folks may line up behind that.  

In the mean time, I expect to continue taking this role of the loyal opposition in order to either 1)  Find that better solution, or 2) Galvanize the consensus.  
If this discussion we are having here doesn't happen publicly, and look at every option, people may think that what is selected is not the best that we can do under the circumstances.

If after exhausting all arguments against it, the time comes to implement (probably early 2015), the discussions and debate should have concluded with every criticism being having had a chance to be heard, and the best we can do at the moment being implemented.  That will either be "the simplest thing that can possibly work" or something less simple but with better chances of working indefinitely.  Either are an improvement.
1031  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Buying on Silk Road on: October 25, 2014, 05:05:22 PM
Breaking News: Silk Road shut down, FBI illegally seizes millions in bitcoins, suspected DPR arrested!
Post pics or it didn't happen, lol.
1032  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: satoshin@gmx.com is compromised on: October 25, 2014, 05:00:59 PM
Why would Satoshi keep using an old email address?  It makes much more sense just to close the account.

absolutely yes. I can not the sense that satoshi have his account open yet. But anyway, I hope that all of problem of this e-mail is solved in the best case  Smiley

Makes sense when SN is dead, doesn't it?

The identity has been dead for years.
1033  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Anyone following the ebola outbreak? on: October 25, 2014, 04:58:46 PM
Ready for the attempt medical tyranny by this admin? ready for your forced vaccination injection? OBEY.

will see soon...
Dangers of lack of trust in administration become apparent in humanitarian crises. If you see your leader as the equivalent of Dada, you probably aren't going to be too willing to accept a mandated injection or even follow basic procedures pushed by their health organizations. Without a free flow of global, neutral communication easily accessible, you're stuck with whatever the government says (with medical care generally an arm of the government), whatever the mass media says, and whatever your neighbors speculate based on what That Guy heard about That Other Guy who prayed to God and was cured by crucifying an albino goat, so if you distrust the government and believe the media just repeats talking points, you better hope you have smart neighbors with a background in infectious diseases.

With recent cures and vaccines, these are things you can't even trust in even if you did have faith in the government. Right now, it'd be a bad choice to take a vaccine, I think, given how few, as a %, are dying. This'll be changing soon as we already passed the point where this could simply be quarantined away, but nobody knows the long-term effects of these new cures and vaccines, and since if an effective vaccine is found, probably everyone in affected areas will be told to receive it if it's mass-produced cheaply. A relatively tiny %death can kill millions, ignoring the possibility of it having a %chance of spreading a mutated form. Given #infected + time = more opportunities for mutations, the probability of of a mutation able to resist whatever comes out to cure or vaccinate against the strain we assume we need to worry about is always increasing, so we have a wicked problem -- the longer a cure or vaccine is tested, the more people will die and the better chance that this becomes an endemic or the cure/vaccine turns out ineffective against a new strain which spread during testing, but injecting without adequate tests can cause more deaths than not injecting - and we can't know which route's better until the governments commit to a plan and see it through.

When put this way you make ebola seem not so bad after all.
Government medical authority is pandemic, and individuals encouraged to feel helpless without it.
This virus decides who lives and who dies and when and how people die.
Nations that have attached this to the same level and branch of government that are also responsible for paying the survivor benefits (pensions, social security, etc) seems to create a perverse incentive.

It also creates a perverse incentive for citizens, who may put up with a corrupt government because they have personal medical issues and can't abide any disruption in their own treatment.  Along with this, it also provides easy access to every individual vulnerability a person has to the largest and most powerful institutions globally, and entrusts that information to their safeguarding from anyone that might wish you harm.

This virus and the ebola-panic virus have a symbiotic relationship.  The more ebola-panic there is, the more folks will run to their government to "do something".
Those we go to for help, we also empower.
1034  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Increasing the block size is a good idea; 50%/year is probably too aggressive on: October 25, 2014, 05:35:44 AM
But clearly some blocks are already full right up to the 1MB limit.  I've been doing transactional systems for 30+ years; the serious trouble will start when the average over reasonable periods of time, e.g. an hour or so but not more than a day, begins to approach ~70%.

So if there were a flexible adjustment that kept the highest average below 70%, or even below 50% to be safer, then we would have a flexible adjustment that would be fit for purpose?   Maybe even better than a fixed increase?  Would it be even better if the target max size were 400% of the average, to bring the average to 25% of the max?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little's_law

Per https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions?showDataPoints=true&timespan=1year&show_header=true&daysAverageString=1&scale=0&format=csv&address=, Nov. 28, 2013 had the most transactions in a day, i.e. 102010.  From https://blockchain.info/block-height/271850 to https://blockchain.info/block-height/272030, i.e. 180 blocks that day, one wonders what the block size distribution looked like.  Gosh, it would be useful to have the size of the pool of waiting transactions at that time.
The largest block of that period  by a good margin was in the 880KB range.  https://blockchain.info/block-height/271998
The average was bit less than half that block.

Per https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-per-block?showDataPoints=false&timespan=1year&show_header=true&daysAverageString=1&scale=0&format=csv&address=, we had an average of 560 transactions per block (only the 8th highest day so far).  Feb. 27, 2014 had the highest average transactions per block of 618 so far.

April 3, 2014 had the highest average block size at 0.365623MB.  Arg, a day is too long.  I just bet the hourly average peaks around 70% of 1MB.

Does *anyone* have a record of the pool or waiting transactions?  That's our key.  When there are ~2,000 transactions in the queue waiting then we would expect a full 1MB block to be coming out next.  When there are ~4,000 transactions in the queue waiting then we would expect two full 1MB blocks to be coming out next.  In this state, transactions can expect to take ~20 minutes to confirm.  ~6,000 waiting -> 30 minute confirmation times.  And so on.

7t/s * 60s/m = 420t/m, 420t/m * 10m/block = 4200t/block.  That does not match observations:  Observations reveal only about 2000t/block.  2000t/block * 1block/10m = 200t/m, 200t/m * 1m/60s ~= 3.3t/s.  Who thinks we can squeeze 4200t/block?  3.3t/s * 86400s/d = 285,120t/d.  Trouble is closer than we thought.  70% * 285.120t/d = 199,584t/d.

Gentlemen, I've seen this too many times before; when the workload grows to somewhere north of 200,000t/d we *will* begin to see the pool of waiting transactions grow to tens of thousands and confirmation times will be well over an hour.

What did you see and where did you see it.
200Kt/d may be several years away, yes?
https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=
(If you are fond of extrapolating this might tell you something)

Or 200kt/d may be much sooner.
So flexible limits are probably better than "whatever" right?

Increase the MAX_BLOCKSIZE as soon as is reasonable.  20MB, 32MB, whatever.  Then enhance the code to segment blocks to exceed the API limit after that.

1035  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Ben Lawsky and Bitlicense on: October 25, 2014, 04:46:35 AM

Thanks for posting this. I sent an email and I encourage others to send it or use it as a template for your own personalized missive to Ben Lawsky.

If he is trying to make this wonderful bitlicense thing for NY, why not just start with what NY already has?
Then if there is a company in compliance with already existing NY rules, the company can register and be licensed.  
He gets his win, and some Bitcoin businesses in the state can show off a credential.

There really isn't a need for any of that though. Why the NYers aren't showing this guy the door, I don't know.  He is just wasting their time and money and making the state look bad to the rest of the world.
1036  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 25, 2014, 04:39:10 AM
https://vimeo.com/108437163

What terrible spokesperson these guys are.

"Bitcoin's monetary policy could change" Really !? Just cause you dropped a couple millions on Coinbase certainly does not make you an authority to speak on Bitcoin and utter such nonsense.

This video is so disappointing

Yes, he was incorrect in his statement.  A consensus doesn't change Bitcoin total coins.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Prohibited_changes

A consensus, or even a constituency, easily could change to use a different coin instead, but is not free to change bitcoin on this matter.
1037  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Bitcoin is "NOT" Legal Tender According to IRS on: October 25, 2014, 04:10:38 AM
What is legal tender in the U.S.? To my knowledge only U.S. Dollars are legal tender. It should come as no surprise that bitcoin can't be used to pay taxes.  

Some US states also include gold and silver as Legal Tender.
https://statelegaltender.com/

I am not a fan of legal tender laws generally.
You can ignore them. Many US Federal buildings refuse USD and only take credit cards or personal checks.

That's because while their minders don't trust them with their cash, they do trust them with our cards and account information.
Bitcoin could solve this trust problem for them easily enough.  The cashier doesn't need to know the private key, but can verify the transfer, and perform their function.
1038  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Bitcoin is "NOT" Legal Tender According to IRS on: October 25, 2014, 03:23:15 AM
What is legal tender in the U.S.? To my knowledge only U.S. Dollars are legal tender. It should come as no surprise that bitcoin can't be used to pay taxes. 

Some US states also include gold and silver as Legal Tender.
https://statelegaltender.com/

I am not a fan of legal tender laws generally.
1039  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Increasing the block size is a good idea; 50%/year is probably too aggressive on: October 25, 2014, 03:09:50 AM
1) What is the maximum value for MAX_BLOCKSIZE functionally possible given the APIs being used?

2) What is the maximum value which has been tested successfully?  Have any sizes been tested that fail?

3) Why not just set it to that value once right now (or soon) to the value which works and leave it at that?
       3.1) What advantage is there to delaying the jump to maximum tested value?

No miner is consistently filling up even the tiny 1MB blocks possible now.  We see no evidence of self-dealing transactions.  What are we afraid of?

Heck, jump to 20MB and grow it at 40% for 20 years; that's fine with me *but* be prepared to alter that if there be a need.  How will we know we need to jump it up faster?  A few blocks at the current maximum is hardly a reason to panic but when the pool of transactions waiting to be blocked starts to grow without any apparent limit then we've waited too long.

The first time it was fixed was from 32MB, it was reduced to 1MB temporarily until other things were fixed.  Pretty much all the reasons for that have abated since though.
(backstops in front of backstops)

The maximum successfully "tested" is what we have now, 1MB.
and there it sits at the top of the wish list.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Hardfork_Wishlist


We are at an average of less than 1/3rd of that now?
https://blockchain.info/charts/avg-block-size
https://blockchain.info/charts/avg-block-size?showDataPoints=false&timespan=all&show_header=true&daysAverageString=7&scale=0&address=

If we were to extrapolate the growth rate, we are still far from a crisis, or from getting transactions backed up because of this.
This provides opportunity for still better proposals to emerge in the months ahead.
1040  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: The "you cant kill Bitcoin argument" on: October 25, 2014, 02:55:38 AM
If government goes for core dev team it will kill it easily. You don't need to attack the application, get people who works on it and you are done.
You don't even need to kill it. Just install enough hooks and backdoors and whole purpose is defeated. No one really checks what is running except few developers, there are no audits or checks and balances to insure code integrity.
It remains the only implementation with a miner, yes?
So, also a single point of failure.
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